Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol, by whom would Israel be occupied?germany was split into four territories occupied by the allied forces.

If Hamas “occupied” Israel that would be the end of Israelis. They are incapable of humanity. As bad as everyone claims Israel is, Hamas is far worse and is comprised of savage barbarians… yet everyone is in their favor. It’s beyond comprehension. And I say this as an anti settler, anti Netanyahu person. Yall have lost your minds.

lol you’re anti settler, okay: tell us, what sort of resistance tactics would you permit for Palestinians who suffer from settlers and the settlement movement? Guns? Rocks? Or like everyone else, sad songs?

Civil rights movement didn’t happen with terrorism. Neither did suffrage, or birth control or abortion. It occurred with peaceful activism and education and tolerance. You are falling over yourself to defend terrorism. And separately, the West Bank is not relevant to what’s happening in Gaza with Hamas, and your effort to conflate the two is an attempt to deflect from Hamas, an entity that is indefensible.

Terrorism was a tool used by almost every colonized people to expel colonizers including Mandela

Now terrorism is a “tool.” This is why people with your perspective on the conflict are not taken seriously. It’s sad because it does your cause a disservice.

It's a statement of historical fact rather than an opinion on the ethics of terrorism. Bear in mind that Zionists used terrorism in creating Israel. Remember the King David Hotel?

The JNC (Jewish national committee) denounced the bombing of the king David hotel. Palestinians celebrate attacks on Israeli civilians.

Additionally the Irgun placed three separate phone calls urging British to evacuate the king David before they bombed it, to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas and jihadists specifically target civilians to incite fear. I denounce terrorism of all forms. Palestinians sympathizers denounce selectively.

Just like you extend the “right to defend itself” selectively. What is the right of Palestinians to defend against settler violence? Do they have one?

Absolutely.

But there aren't any settlers in Gaza. Palestinians in Gaza have been free to do as the wish for nearly twenty years.

The Palestinians in Gaza made a terrible choice. Invading Israel and murdering and raping all those innocent people. Taking hostages and abusing them.

What did they expect? This is the most right wing government in the history of Israel. Palestinians in Gaza knew exactly what would happen when they invaded Israel and committed their atrocities. Every death in Gaza, all the destruction, is what they chose.

Where is the Palestinian plan for a two state solution? Where are the Palestinian leaders that can deliver anything?

There is no plan. There are no rational leaders. It's just terror and annihilation. And it's been like that for 80 years. Rejecting their own state. Multiple wars. Causing civil wars in Lebanon and Jordan. Massacring athletes at the Olympics. Intifadas. Supporting Saddam Hussein and the invasion of Kuwait. Cheering 9/11. Torturing and raping and murdering a bunch of lefties on kibbutzes and music festivals.

Palestinians are in charge of their own destiny. And this is what they've chosen.

A few Israelis were also cheering 9/11 also in New Jersey.

Israelis supported Saddam against Iran.

Israel caused many wars namely our war in 2003 in Iraq. Bibi bragged that Israel intelligence told Americans and Brit’s about WMD’s and lied. What a surprise.

Israel also wa supporting ISIS in the Syrian civil war against Hezbollah and Iran and Hamas.

Please don’t let us pretend Israel is the moral winner here over Palestinians because they really aren’t . Both sides have lots of bad apples and evil behavior

[Anonymous]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2002/aug/17/iraq.israel1

From 2002.

Israel puts pressure on US to strike Iraq

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like something is kicking off in Iran...


A suspected cyberattack paralyzes the majority of gas stations across Iran

https://apnews.com/article/iran-gas-stations-cyberattack-a9ae33c352812e40ca3d255a2533fea9



Also:

BREAKING: Massive explosion at Iran's aviation and space force headquarters in Tehran.

These headquarters supply missiles and UAVs to regime proxies in the region.

Regime proxies = Hamas and others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

You've extended my analogy with Nazi Germany to post-Nazi Germany. The real question is whether pre-1948 Palestine should cease to exist, as you seem to imply it should. Zionists ethnically cleansed the area of Palestinians and, in some cases, massacred them (e.g., the Tantura massacre). Only Russia did some of that to Germany after it lost WW2. In what is now Israel, Palestinians had lived for generations on land that was later acquired by rich settlers from the U.S. So we should really be looking at whether lands conquered by the Nazis should remain under German control after WW2. IMO, Poland should no more have remained part of the Reich than Israel should remain part of Palestine.

You are ignoring the many native Israelis in Israel and their ancestral ties to the land. And you are glossing over the mass sale of land from Palestinians to Jewish people in the 1800 and 1900s- those Palestinians essentially sold their birthright. What is obvious to me is that there are two native peoples inhabiting the same land and the practical solution to the dispute would be a two state solution, since they largely cannot peacefully co-exist.

I'm very skeptical about the "ancestral ties" claim. Yes, the Romans drove out the Jews a couple of millennia ago, but the indigenous people who remained have lived there for thousands of years, while many of the Jews who left mingled with Europeans, North Africans, and people in the Iberian peninsula. I am, in large part, an Ashkenazi Jew, and I have blue eyes, fair skin, and red-blond hair, as do my children. This comes from our central European ancestry. I could probably find a way to claim some land in what is now Israel, but I find that idea immoral. My "ancestral ties" to Europe are at least as strong as they are to what is now Israel, and after thousands of years of my family's absence, I have no claim on that land. I could just as well demand a piece of Poland! The same is true for many of those who have settled in Israel.

The other "ancestral tie" is based on God's supposed promise to Abraham. However, you can follow any of the three major monotheistic religions and nevertheless believe that Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses never existed and were literary creations that reflect human efforts to understand the divine. A literal interpretation of ancient scriptures is an all-around losing proposition for everyone. It says more about the thought processes of ancient and primitive people than it does about any God or gods. Modern theological movements generally move toward the abstract and pro-social and away from the literal and tribal.

The real reasons for Jewish claims of land in "Israel" are extremely selfish. The thug who said of stealing a Palestinian home, "If I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it," was right. These people absolutely are stealing. He was a New Yorker! What "ancestral tie" did he have that the person whose home he stole did not? These people have no morals, and their only allegiance is to feathering their own nests. They operate from narcissism and sociopathy, and that is why Israel has developed into a state that has no problem committing genocide. The U.S. should not be subsidizing this evil.



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Oh are you "extremely skeptical" you effin Nazi?

Actually, I said "very skeptical," but have you got any more than an insult? Like maybe you could respond to my reasoning? What is Nazi-esque about pointing out that most Jews don't have ancestral ties to Israel, at least not to the extent that they should be able to claim the land? The Romans kicked many of them out, including my own Jewish ancestors, 2,000 years ago. I also have some French Huguenot ancestors who had to leave France in a heck of a hurry. Do my "ancestral ties" to France give me the right to take over part of France today? Do Native Americans' "ancestral ties" to your home give them the right to kick you out and take over your property?

If we're talking about Nazis, why does a Jew from America have the "ancestral right" to go to Israel and take over a Palestinian's home? Please help me understand how opposing this practice makes me a Nazi? Surely a Nazi would, in reality, support this behavior (or any grab for lebensraum that benefitted them)? A Nazi would put self-interest before justice. My argument is based on justice over self-interest.

And if you're applying the term "Nazi" to my non-literal religious beliefs, I mean ... come on. Do you really think we should understand every single thing in the Hebrew Bible literally? If we did, we'd be savages who stone our rebellious children at the city gate, execute gays, kill "infants and nursing babies" in a quest for lebensraum, take slaves, and rape conquered women. Do you really think Adam, Eve, and Abraham were historical figures? How am I a Nazi for opposing Biblical literalism?

Claiming to be the Chosen People whose God gave them someone else's land is really no different from claiming to be a member of a Master Race that has the right to seize Lebensraum from other nations. These beliefs produce dangerous leaders like Netanyahu and Hitler, both of whom are considered narcissistic psychopaths who cloak(ed) their extreme nationalism, entitlement, and disdain for the rights of others in racial and cultural superiority.

So who is the Nazi here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

You've extended my analogy with Nazi Germany to post-Nazi Germany. The real question is whether pre-1948 Palestine should cease to exist, as you seem to imply it should. Zionists ethnically cleansed the area of Palestinians and, in some cases, massacred them (e.g., the Tantura massacre). Only Russia did some of that to Germany after it lost WW2. In what is now Israel, Palestinians had lived for generations on land that was later acquired by rich settlers from the U.S. So we should really be looking at whether lands conquered by the Nazis should remain under German control after WW2. IMO, Poland should no more have remained part of the Reich than Israel should remain part of Palestine.

You are ignoring the many native Israelis in Israel and their ancestral ties to the land. And you are glossing over the mass sale of land from Palestinians to Jewish people in the 1800 and 1900s- those Palestinians essentially sold their birthright. What is obvious to me is that there are two native peoples inhabiting the same land and the practical solution to the dispute would be a two state solution, since they largely cannot peacefully co-exist.

I'm very skeptical about the "ancestral ties" claim. Yes, the Romans drove out the Jews a couple of millennia ago, but the indigenous people who remained have lived there for thousands of years, while many of the Jews who left mingled with Europeans, North Africans, and people in the Iberian peninsula. I am, in large part, an Ashkenazi Jew, and I have blue eyes, fair skin, and red-blond hair, as do my children. This comes from our central European ancestry. I could probably find a way to claim some land in what is now Israel, but I find that idea immoral. My "ancestral ties" to Europe are at least as strong as they are to what is now Israel, and after thousands of years of my family's absence, I have no claim on that land. I could just as well demand a piece of Poland! The same is true for many of those who have settled in Israel.

The other "ancestral tie" is based on God's supposed promise to Abraham. However, you can follow any of the three major monotheistic religions and nevertheless believe that Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses never existed and were literary creations that reflect human efforts to understand the divine. A literal interpretation of ancient scriptures is an all-around losing proposition for everyone. It says more about the thought processes of ancient and primitive people than it does about any God or gods. Modern theological movements generally move toward the abstract and pro-social and away from the literal and tribal.

The real reasons for Jewish claims of land in "Israel" are extremely selfish. The thug who said of stealing a Palestinian home, "If I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it," was right. These people absolutely are stealing. He was a New Yorker! What "ancestral tie" did he have that the person whose home he stole did not? These people have no morals, and their only allegiance is to feathering their own nests. They operate from narcissism and sociopathy, and that is why Israel has developed into a state that has no problem committing genocide. The U.S. should not be subsidizing this evil.



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Well, your skepticism is irrelevant. That said, your assertions were reasonable-seeming enough until your last paragraph.

My skepticism will become relevant when/if it is widely shared by the voting public. Attitudes toward Israel are changing very quickly from the old default of support to general disgust.

As to the reasonableness of my last paragraph, I think history will support my assertion that Israel is committing genocide. It will be interesting to revisit this topic 20 years from now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you have 1 group, known terrorist group. Kills 1200. Commits war crimes. Kills babies. Rapes women.

And you have another group, moralist army. Kills 25,000. Commits war crimes. Kills babies. Shoots their own hostages and survivors sheltering in churches.

Pretty bad when the terrorists somehow sound more reasonable.

To be fair, Hamas and its associates probably killed about 600 people. About half of those killed on 10/7 appear to have died by "friendly" fire. Many Israelis are reporting this. Also, Hamas probably did not kill any babies. Certainly, it did not behead 40 babies or hang dead babies on a clothesline, as some propagandists lied. Sadly, Hamas members and/or the attackers that accompanied them probably did rape women, even when you take into account that Israel lies routinely and cannot be trusted. It is unclear why Israel does not allow the Red Cross to conduct an independent investigation into the alleged rapes. I suspect that there were rapes but that the extent of the rapes has been exaggerated.

Good grief. To still be taking this position at this point….

Seems a reasonable position to me. Hamas killed several hundred people. Nobody disputes that Israel killed many of its own people on 10/7, possibly as a result of the Hannibal Directive. The "40 beheaded babies" story was a flat-out lie. This is also not disputed. Rapes almost certainly happened. Israel lies a lot, so it would be naive to take every accusation it makes at face value, but the rape claims appear to be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol, by whom would Israel be occupied?germany was split into four territories occupied by the allied forces.

If Hamas “occupied” Israel that would be the end of Israelis. They are incapable of humanity. As bad as everyone claims Israel is, Hamas is far worse and is comprised of savage barbarians… yet everyone is in their favor. It’s beyond comprehension. And I say this as an anti settler, anti Netanyahu person. Yall have lost your minds.

lol you’re anti settler, okay: tell us, what sort of resistance tactics would you permit for Palestinians who suffer from settlers and the settlement movement? Guns? Rocks? Or like everyone else, sad songs?

Civil rights movement didn’t happen with terrorism. Neither did suffrage, or birth control or abortion. It occurred with peaceful activism and education and tolerance. You are falling over yourself to defend terrorism. And separately, the West Bank is not relevant to what’s happening in Gaza with Hamas, and your effort to conflate the two is an attempt to deflect from Hamas, an entity that is indefensible.

Terrorism was a tool used by almost every colonized people to expel colonizers including Mandela

Now terrorism is a “tool.” This is why people with your perspective on the conflict are not taken seriously. It’s sad because it does your cause a disservice.

It's a statement of historical fact rather than an opinion on the ethics of terrorism. Bear in mind that Zionists used terrorism in creating Israel. Remember the King David Hotel?

The JNC (Jewish national committee) denounced the bombing of the king David hotel. Palestinians celebrate attacks on Israeli civilians.

Additionally the Irgun placed three separate phone calls urging British to evacuate the king David before they bombed it, to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas and jihadists specifically target civilians to incite fear. I denounce terrorism of all forms. Palestinians sympathizers denounce selectively.

Just like you extend the “right to defend itself” selectively. What is the right of Palestinians to defend against settler violence? Do they have one?

Absolutely.

But there aren't any settlers in Gaza. Palestinians in Gaza have been free to do as the wish for nearly twenty years.

The Palestinians in Gaza made a terrible choice. Invading Israel and murdering and raping all those innocent people. Taking hostages and abusing them.

What did they expect? This is the most right wing government in the history of Israel. Palestinians in Gaza knew exactly what would happen when they invaded Israel and committed their atrocities. Every death in Gaza, all the destruction, is what they chose.

Where is the Palestinian plan for a two state solution? Where are the Palestinian leaders that can deliver anything?

There is no plan. There are no rational leaders. It's just terror and annihilation. And it's been like that for 80 years. Rejecting their own state. Multiple wars. Causing civil wars in Lebanon and Jordan. Massacring athletes at the Olympics. Intifadas. Supporting Saddam Hussein and the invasion of Kuwait. Cheering 9/11. Torturing and raping and murdering a bunch of lefties on kibbutzes and music festivals.

Palestinians are in charge of their own destiny. And this is what they've chosen.

Do you really think there aren’t people with family in the West Bank are in Hamas? Yes settlers didn’t live in Gaza but Hamas isn’t fighting for just Gaza. It’s for all the Palestinians Or so they say. Israel was stupid enough to think their foolish divide and conquer strategy would work. Palestinians are Palestinians regardless of Christianity or Islam or West Bank or Gaza

I think the settlers are awful. There is no peace until they leave. Israel has no moral high ground when they are colonizing the West Bank. Absolutely no argument.

But if you think torturing and raping and murdering Israelis is all good for the Palestinian cause, yeah, well, no. I fully support the destruction of Hamas and their supporters. Maybe after they get thoroughly wrecked, they might choose a different leadership. And if they don't, well, it'll be a big wall. But to hell with Hamas and their supporters.

I saw the videos of Palestinians in Gaza cheering as their Hamas militants brought back dead and tortured Israeli women. Absolutely awful. If you think that's great for the Palestinian cause, I think you might be wrong. Sadistic rapists. Destroy them. And since this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose, not feeling a lot of sympathy. I wish I could bleach my eyes from the things I've seen Palestinians do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

You've extended my analogy with Nazi Germany to post-Nazi Germany. The real question is whether pre-1948 Palestine should cease to exist, as you seem to imply it should. Zionists ethnically cleansed the area of Palestinians and, in some cases, massacred them (e.g., the Tantura massacre). Only Russia did some of that to Germany after it lost WW2. In what is now Israel, Palestinians had lived for generations on land that was later acquired by rich settlers from the U.S. So we should really be looking at whether lands conquered by the Nazis should remain under German control after WW2. IMO, Poland should no more have remained part of the Reich than Israel should remain part of Palestine.

You are ignoring the many native Israelis in Israel and their ancestral ties to the land. And you are glossing over the mass sale of land from Palestinians to Jewish people in the 1800 and 1900s- those Palestinians essentially sold their birthright. What is obvious to me is that there are two native peoples inhabiting the same land and the practical solution to the dispute would be a two state solution, since they largely cannot peacefully co-exist.

I'm very skeptical about the "ancestral ties" claim. Yes, the Romans drove out the Jews a couple of millennia ago, but the indigenous people who remained have lived there for thousands of years, while many of the Jews who left mingled with Europeans, North Africans, and people in the Iberian peninsula. I am, in large part, an Ashkenazi Jew, and I have blue eyes, fair skin, and red-blond hair, as do my children. This comes from our central European ancestry. I could probably find a way to claim some land in what is now Israel, but I find that idea immoral. My "ancestral ties" to Europe are at least as strong as they are to what is now Israel, and after thousands of years of my family's absence, I have no claim on that land. I could just as well demand a piece of Poland! The same is true for many of those who have settled in Israel.

The other "ancestral tie" is based on God's supposed promise to Abraham. However, you can follow any of the three major monotheistic religions and nevertheless believe that Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses never existed and were literary creations that reflect human efforts to understand the divine. A literal interpretation of ancient scriptures is an all-around losing proposition for everyone. It says more about the thought processes of ancient and primitive people than it does about any God or gods. Modern theological movements generally move toward the abstract and pro-social and away from the literal and tribal.

The real reasons for Jewish claims of land in "Israel" are extremely selfish. The thug who said of stealing a Palestinian home, "If I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it," was right. These people absolutely are stealing. He was a New Yorker! What "ancestral tie" did he have that the person whose home he stole did not? These people have no morals, and their only allegiance is to feathering their own nests. They operate from narcissism and sociopathy, and that is why Israel has developed into a state that has no problem committing genocide. The U.S. should not be subsidizing this evil.



.

Well, your skepticism is irrelevant. That said, your assertions were reasonable-seeming enough until your last paragraph.

My skepticism will become relevant when/if it is widely shared by the voting public. Attitudes toward Israel are changing very quickly from the old default of support to general disgust.

As to the reasonableness of my last paragraph, I think history will support my assertion that Israel is committing genocide. It will be interesting to revisit this topic 20 years from now.

It is interesting that the younger voters who do not watch or get their news from the mainstream/corporate media sources (that are very pro Israel) do not support Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:lol, by whom would Israel be occupied?germany was split into four territories occupied by the allied forces.

If Hamas “occupied” Israel that would be the end of Israelis. They are incapable of humanity. As bad as everyone claims Israel is, Hamas is far worse and is comprised of savage barbarians… yet everyone is in their favor. It’s beyond comprehension. And I say this as an anti settler, anti Netanyahu person. Yall have lost your minds.

lol you’re anti settler, okay: tell us, what sort of resistance tactics would you permit for Palestinians who suffer from settlers and the settlement movement? Guns? Rocks? Or like everyone else, sad songs?

Civil rights movement didn’t happen with terrorism. Neither did suffrage, or birth control or abortion. It occurred with peaceful activism and education and tolerance. You are falling over yourself to defend terrorism. And separately, the West Bank is not relevant to what’s happening in Gaza with Hamas, and your effort to conflate the two is an attempt to deflect from Hamas, an entity that is indefensible.

Terrorism was a tool used by almost every colonized people to expel colonizers including Mandela

Now terrorism is a “tool.” This is why people with your perspective on the conflict are not taken seriously. It’s sad because it does your cause a disservice.

It's a statement of historical fact rather than an opinion on the ethics of terrorism. Bear in mind that Zionists used terrorism in creating Israel. Remember the King David Hotel?

The JNC (Jewish national committee) denounced the bombing of the king David hotel. Palestinians celebrate attacks on Israeli civilians.

Additionally the Irgun placed three separate phone calls urging British to evacuate the king David before they bombed it, to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas and jihadists specifically target civilians to incite fear. I denounce terrorism of all forms. Palestinians sympathizers denounce selectively.

Just like you extend the “right to defend itself” selectively. What is the right of Palestinians to defend against settler violence? Do they have one?

Absolutely.

But there aren't any settlers in Gaza. Palestinians in Gaza have been free to do as the wish for nearly twenty years.

The Palestinians in Gaza made a terrible choice. Invading Israel and murdering and raping all those innocent people. Taking hostages and abusing them.

What did they expect? This is the most right wing government in the history of Israel. Palestinians in Gaza knew exactly what would happen when they invaded Israel and committed their atrocities. Every death in Gaza, all the destruction, is what they chose.

Where is the Palestinian plan for a two state solution? Where are the Palestinian leaders that can deliver anything?

There is no plan. There are no rational leaders. It's just terror and annihilation. And it's been like that for 80 years. Rejecting their own state. Multiple wars. Causing civil wars in Lebanon and Jordan. Massacring athletes at the Olympics. Intifadas. Supporting Saddam Hussein and the invasion of Kuwait. Cheering 9/11. Torturing and raping and murdering a bunch of lefties on kibbutzes and music festivals.

Palestinians are in charge of their own destiny. And this is what they've chosen.

Do you really think there aren’t people with family in the West Bank are in Hamas? Yes settlers didn’t live in Gaza but Hamas isn’t fighting for just Gaza. It’s for all the Palestinians Or so they say. Israel was stupid enough to think their foolish divide and conquer strategy would work. Palestinians are Palestinians regardless of Christianity or Islam or West Bank or Gaza

I think the settlers are awful. There is no peace until they leave. Israel has no moral high ground when they are colonizing the West Bank. Absolutely no argument.

But if you think torturing and raping and murdering Israelis is all good for the Palestinian cause, yeah, well, no. I fully support the destruction of Hamas and their supporters. Maybe after they get thoroughly wrecked, they might choose a different leadership. And if they don't, well, it'll be a big wall. But to hell with Hamas and their supporters.

I saw the videos of Palestinians in Gaza cheering as their Hamas militants brought back dead and tortured Israeli women. Absolutely awful. If you think that's great for the Palestinian cause, I think you might be wrong. Sadistic rapists. Destroy them. And since this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose, not feeling a lot of sympathy. I wish I could bleach my eyes from the things I've seen Palestinians do.

I agree with you that Hamas is awful but war just encourages more Palestinians to support Hamas. If Israel leaked records of Hamas members bank accounts and their lavish home addresses and club hopping and cocaine and alcohol dalliances in Qatar and Turkey, Palestinians wouldve been pissed off while their own people barely struggle to live. That’s how Palestinians got pissed off with Arafat. It’s when they found out how much his wife inherited when he died that they turned against the PLO and Hamas, a group that was clowned by Palestinians for its Islamic slant, was able to be supported seriously to the point of winning an election. Israel could have easily won an information war with Palestinians against Hamas by using their lavish lifestyles against them. Hell the tunnels are more lavish than actual Gaza properties in many cases .

I’m not saying they didn’t need to attack militarily on 10/7 but they could’ve used information from Gazans themselves with promises of immunity as to where Hamas actually is. Israel didn’t take advantage of what Americans did in iraq which is get Iraqis themselves to topple Saddam. Instead, Israel didn’t divide and conquer. They went to war irrationally killing everyone in sight and it killed on 10/7 where they even killed their own when shelling the kibbutzes to kill Hamas as well

[Anonymous]

Trust me if Israel promised men safety for their families and money , Palestinians would go with guns themselves to find Hamas for Israel.

I’m not saying the American way is right but we did for better or worse use Afghans and Iraqis to fight and find terrorists with us. Israel doesn’t do this. They just bomb churches, hospitals, and schools foolishly . That’s not a humane war at all nor does it make things safe for Israel at all to be honest . Hamas pt 2 in 20 years will be the Orphans from this war and then what?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

You've extended my analogy with Nazi Germany to post-Nazi Germany. The real question is whether pre-1948 Palestine should cease to exist, as you seem to imply it should. Zionists ethnically cleansed the area of Palestinians and, in some cases, massacred them (e.g., the Tantura massacre). Only Russia did some of that to Germany after it lost WW2. In what is now Israel, Palestinians had lived for generations on land that was later acquired by rich settlers from the U.S. So we should really be looking at whether lands conquered by the Nazis should remain under German control after WW2. IMO, Poland should no more have remained part of the Reich than Israel should remain part of Palestine.

You are ignoring the many native Israelis in Israel and their ancestral ties to the land. And you are glossing over the mass sale of land from Palestinians to Jewish people in the 1800 and 1900s- those Palestinians essentially sold their birthright. What is obvious to me is that there are two native peoples inhabiting the same land and the practical solution to the dispute would be a two state solution, since they largely cannot peacefully co-exist.

I'm very skeptical about the "ancestral ties" claim. Yes, the Romans drove out the Jews a couple of millennia ago, but the indigenous people who remained have lived there for thousands of years, while many of the Jews who left mingled with Europeans, North Africans, and people in the Iberian peninsula. I am, in large part, an Ashkenazi Jew, and I have blue eyes, fair skin, and red-blond hair, as do my children. This comes from our central European ancestry. I could probably find a way to claim some land in what is now Israel, but I find that idea immoral. My "ancestral ties" to Europe are at least as strong as they are to what is now Israel, and after thousands of years of my family's absence, I have no claim on that land. I could just as well demand a piece of Poland! The same is true for many of those who have settled in Israel.

The other "ancestral tie" is based on God's supposed promise to Abraham. However, you can follow any of the three major monotheistic religions and nevertheless believe that Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses never existed and were literary creations that reflect human efforts to understand the divine. A literal interpretation of ancient scriptures is an all-around losing proposition for everyone. It says more about the thought processes of ancient and primitive people than it does about any God or gods. Modern theological movements generally move toward the abstract and pro-social and away from the literal and tribal.

The real reasons for Jewish claims of land in "Israel" are extremely selfish. The thug who said of stealing a Palestinian home, "If I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it," was right. These people absolutely are stealing. He was a New Yorker! What "ancestral tie" did he have that the person whose home he stole did not? These people have no morals, and their only allegiance is to feathering their own nests. They operate from narcissism and sociopathy, and that is why Israel has developed into a state that has no problem committing genocide. The U.S. should not be subsidizing this evil.



.

Well, your skepticism is irrelevant. That said, your assertions were reasonable-seeming enough until your last paragraph.

My skepticism will become relevant when/if it is widely shared by the voting public. Attitudes toward Israel are changing very quickly from the old default of support to general disgust.

As to the reasonableness of my last paragraph, I think history will support my assertion that Israel is committing genocide. It will be interesting to revisit this topic 20 years from now.

It is interesting that the younger voters who do not watch or get their news from the mainstream/corporate media sources (that are very pro Israel) do not support Israel.

Yes. Younger voters also generally don't have the knee-jerk paternalism toward people who are "not quite white," like Palestinians. They are quick to identify and reject racism, oppression, and colonialism. With the Holocaust now 78+ years in the past and most of their Jewish friends living relatively safe and privileged lives in the U.S., they also don't have the reflexive sympathy toward Zionism that their elders had. Young Jewish people are often among Israel's biggest critics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

You've extended my analogy with Nazi Germany to post-Nazi Germany. The real question is whether pre-1948 Palestine should cease to exist, as you seem to imply it should. Zionists ethnically cleansed the area of Palestinians and, in some cases, massacred them (e.g., the Tantura massacre). Only Russia did some of that to Germany after it lost WW2. In what is now Israel, Palestinians had lived for generations on land that was later acquired by rich settlers from the U.S. So we should really be looking at whether lands conquered by the Nazis should remain under German control after WW2. IMO, Poland should no more have remained part of the Reich than Israel should remain part of Palestine.

You are ignoring the many native Israelis in Israel and their ancestral ties to the land. And you are glossing over the mass sale of land from Palestinians to Jewish people in the 1800 and 1900s- those Palestinians essentially sold their birthright. What is obvious to me is that there are two native peoples inhabiting the same land and the practical solution to the dispute would be a two state solution, since they largely cannot peacefully co-exist.

Oh they could do-exist is Israel was a secular country. Israel must drop the Jew state.

Originally, the Jews and Muslims got along fine. Muslims welcomed Jews fleeing from Europe. I saw a video in which a rabbi talks about how they used to babysit one another's children. But the Zionists bit the hand that was feeding them, and after 75 years of conflict, the enmity and tribalism on both sides have escalated to the point where I don't think the two groups could peacefully coexist. The Palestinians still have a stronger claim on the land than the Zionists, but as long as the U.S. props up its spoiled brat of a child (i.e., Israel), the status quo will continue -- an arrogant and vicious occupier abusing and ethnically cleansing a deeply resentful indigenous population, with violence and atrocities on both sides.

Even Palestinian Arab or Turkish Jews in Jerusalem didn’t like the European Jews when they moved in originally because they were seen as odd and standoffish for self segregating and not communicating with the locals . I am sure most of this was language barrier and cultural due to European Jews being self segregated in ghettoes in Europe annd being used to that dynamic . But to the Arabs and others there, this was seen as odd and rude especially given the Brits were not self segregating.

Alot of the original conflict is due to cultural barriers and miscommunication as well and the Brit’s didn’t help matter promising both Jews and Arabs Jerusalem and nationhood in exchange for beating the Turks . Hebrew or Arabic was not spoken by the settlers and Arabs didn’t know Yiddish, German, or Russian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:lol, by whom would Israel be occupied?germany was split into four territories occupied by the allied forces.

If Hamas “occupied” Israel that would be the end of Israelis. They are incapable of humanity. As bad as everyone claims Israel is, Hamas is far worse and is comprised of savage barbarians… yet everyone is in their favor. It’s beyond comprehension. And I say this as an anti settler, anti Netanyahu person. Yall have lost your minds.

lol you’re anti settler, okay: tell us, what sort of resistance tactics would you permit for Palestinians who suffer from settlers and the settlement movement? Guns? Rocks? Or like everyone else, sad songs?

Civil rights movement didn’t happen with terrorism. Neither did suffrage, or birth control or abortion. It occurred with peaceful activism and education and tolerance. You are falling over yourself to defend terrorism. And separately, the West Bank is not relevant to what’s happening in Gaza with Hamas, and your effort to conflate the two is an attempt to deflect from Hamas, an entity that is indefensible.

Terrorism was a tool used by almost every colonized people to expel colonizers including Mandela

Now terrorism is a “tool.” This is why people with your perspective on the conflict are not taken seriously. It’s sad because it does your cause a disservice.

It's a statement of historical fact rather than an opinion on the ethics of terrorism. Bear in mind that Zionists used terrorism in creating Israel. Remember the King David Hotel?

The JNC (Jewish national committee) denounced the bombing of the king David hotel. Palestinians celebrate attacks on Israeli civilians.

Additionally the Irgun placed three separate phone calls urging British to evacuate the king David before they bombed it, to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas and jihadists specifically target civilians to incite fear. I denounce terrorism of all forms. Palestinians sympathizers denounce selectively.

Just like you extend the “right to defend itself” selectively. What is the right of Palestinians to defend against settler violence? Do they have one?

Absolutely.

But there aren't any settlers in Gaza. Palestinians in Gaza have been free to do as the wish for nearly twenty years.

The Palestinians in Gaza made a terrible choice. Invading Israel and murdering and raping all those innocent people. Taking hostages and abusing them.

What did they expect? This is the most right wing government in the history of Israel. Palestinians in Gaza knew exactly what would happen when they invaded Israel and committed their atrocities. Every death in Gaza, all the destruction, is what they chose.

Where is the Palestinian plan for a two state solution? Where are the Palestinian leaders that can deliver anything?

There is no plan. There are no rational leaders. It's just terror and annihilation. And it's been like that for 80 years. Rejecting their own state. Multiple wars. Causing civil wars in Lebanon and Jordan. Massacring athletes at the Olympics. Intifadas. Supporting Saddam Hussein and the invasion of Kuwait. Cheering 9/11. Torturing and raping and murdering a bunch of lefties on kibbutzes and music festivals.

Palestinians are in charge of their own destiny. And this is what they've chosen.

Do you really think there aren’t people with family in the West Bank are in Hamas? Yes settlers didn’t live in Gaza but Hamas isn’t fighting for just Gaza. It’s for all the Palestinians Or so they say. Israel was stupid enough to think their foolish divide and conquer strategy would work. Palestinians are Palestinians regardless of Christianity or Islam or West Bank or Gaza

I think the settlers are awful. There is no peace until they leave. Israel has no moral high ground when they are colonizing the West Bank. Absolutely no argument.

But if you think torturing and raping and murdering Israelis is all good for the Palestinian cause, yeah, well, no. I fully support the destruction of Hamas and their supporters. Maybe after they get thoroughly wrecked, they might choose a different leadership. And if they don't, well, it'll be a big wall. But to hell with Hamas and their supporters.

I saw the videos of Palestinians in Gaza cheering as their Hamas militants brought back dead and tortured Israeli women. Absolutely awful. If you think that's great for the Palestinian cause, I think you might be wrong. Sadistic rapists. Destroy them. And since this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose, not feeling a lot of sympathy. I wish I could bleach my eyes from the things I've seen Palestinians do.

My Palestinian friends are disgusted by Hamas's violence and oppose violence themselves. The kind of people who sign up for those attacks are not going to be your saints and angels. The militants that invaded Israel probably included many true criminals and unhealthy personalities, and their friends were no doubt waiting back in Gaza to cheer them on. Sadly, you get low-lifes in every society, but they don't represent the society as a whole.

The original goal of 10/7 was apparently not to kill civilians but to kill Israeli soldiers and to abduct civilians to trade for Palestinians abducted by the IDF who are, in many cases, held in "administrative detention" without trial or who are falsely accused and tortured into confessing to things they have not done. The attackers comprised not only Hamas but a coalition of groups and random opportunists. The mission was chaotic and disorganized, and the undisciplined group committed got out of control and committed atrocities.

Sadly, the IDF is no better and has the wherewithal to cause even more harm.

[Anonymous]

From the Jerusalem Post:

“Israel is planning to seek some $250 billion in compensation [from] seven Arab and Muslim countries for property left behind by Jews who were forced to flee their homes in 1948 when Israel was established.
Speaking Saturday on Hadashot News, Social Equality Minister Gila Gamliel said, “The time has come to correct the historic injustice” against the Jews from Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Yemen and Iran – countries from which Jews were expelled.”

Yes indeed. Justice must be achieved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol, by whom would Israel be occupied?germany was split into four territories occupied by the allied forces.

If Hamas “occupied” Israel that would be the end of Israelis. They are incapable of humanity. As bad as everyone claims Israel is, Hamas is far worse and is comprised of savage barbarians… yet everyone is in their favor. It’s beyond comprehension. And I say this as an anti settler, anti Netanyahu person. Yall have lost your minds.

lol you’re anti settler, okay: tell us, what sort of resistance tactics would you permit for Palestinians who suffer from settlers and the settlement movement? Guns? Rocks? Or like everyone else, sad songs?

Civil rights movement didn’t happen with terrorism. Neither did suffrage, or birth control or abortion. It occurred with peaceful activism and education and tolerance. You are falling over yourself to defend terrorism. And separately, the West Bank is not relevant to what’s happening in Gaza with Hamas, and your effort to conflate the two is an attempt to deflect from Hamas, an entity that is indefensible.

Terrorism was a tool used by almost every colonized people to expel colonizers including Mandela

Now terrorism is a “tool.” This is why people with your perspective on the conflict are not taken seriously. It’s sad because it does your cause a disservice.

It's a statement of historical fact rather than an opinion on the ethics of terrorism. Bear in mind that Zionists used terrorism in creating Israel. Remember the King David Hotel?

The JNC (Jewish national committee) denounced the bombing of the king David hotel. Palestinians celebrate attacks on Israeli civilians.

Additionally the Irgun placed three separate phone calls urging British to evacuate the king David before they bombed it, to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas and jihadists specifically target civilians to incite fear. I denounce terrorism of all forms. Palestinians sympathizers denounce selectively.

Just like you extend the “right to defend itself” selectively. What is the right of Palestinians to defend against settler violence? Do they have one?

Absolutely.

But there aren't any settlers in Gaza. Palestinians in Gaza have been free to do as the wish for nearly twenty years.

The Palestinians in Gaza made a terrible choice. Invading Israel and murdering and raping all those innocent people. Taking hostages and abusing them.

What did they expect? This is the most right wing government in the history of Israel. Palestinians in Gaza knew exactly what would happen when they invaded Israel and committed their atrocities. Every death in Gaza, all the destruction, is what they chose.

Where is the Palestinian plan for a two state solution? Where are the Palestinian leaders that can deliver anything?

There is no plan. There are no rational leaders. It's just terror and annihilation. And it's been like that for 80 years. Rejecting their own state. Multiple wars. Causing civil wars in Lebanon and Jordan. Massacring athletes at the Olympics. Intifadas. Supporting Saddam Hussein and the invasion of Kuwait. Cheering 9/11. Torturing and raping and murdering a bunch of lefties on kibbutzes and music festivals.

Palestinians are in charge of their own destiny. And this is what they've chosen.

Do you really think there aren’t people with family in the West Bank are in Hamas? Yes settlers didn’t live in Gaza but Hamas isn’t fighting for just Gaza. It’s for all the Palestinians Or so they say. Israel was stupid enough to think their foolish divide and conquer strategy would work. Palestinians are Palestinians regardless of Christianity or Islam or West Bank or Gaza

I think the settlers are awful. There is no peace until they leave. Israel has no moral high ground when they are colonizing the West Bank. Absolutely no argument.

But if you think torturing and raping and murdering Israelis is all good for the Palestinian cause, yeah, well, no. I fully support the destruction of Hamas and their supporters. Maybe after they get thoroughly wrecked, they might choose a different leadership. And if they don't, well, it'll be a big wall. But to hell with Hamas and their supporters.

I saw the videos of Palestinians in Gaza cheering as their Hamas militants brought back dead and tortured Israeli women. Absolutely awful. If you think that's great for the Palestinian cause, I think you might be wrong. Sadistic rapists. Destroy them. And since this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose, not feeling a lot of sympathy. I wish I could bleach my eyes from the things I've seen Palestinians do.

My Palestinian friends are disgusted by Hamas's violence and oppose violence themselves. The kind of people who sign up for those attacks are not going to be your saints and angels. The militants that invaded Israel probably included many true criminals and unhealthy personalities, and their friends were no doubt waiting back in Gaza to cheer them on. Sadly, you get low-lifes in every society, but they don't represent the society as a whole.

The original goal of 10/7 was apparently not to kill civilians but to kill Israeli soldiers and to abduct civilians to trade for Palestinians abducted by the IDF who are, in many cases, held in "administrative detention" without trial or who are falsely accused and tortured into confessing to things they have not done. The attackers comprised not only Hamas but a coalition of groups and random opportunists. The mission was chaotic and disorganized, and the undisciplined group committed got out of control and committed atrocities.

Sadly, the IDF is no better and has the wherewithal to cause even more harm.

These types of posts—with the throat-clearing in advance of the last paragraph are becoming bot-like, no?