Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

You've extended my analogy with Nazi Germany to post-Nazi Germany. The real question is whether pre-1948 Palestine should cease to exist, as you seem to imply it should. Zionists ethnically cleansed the area of Palestinians and, in some cases, massacred them (e.g., the Tantura massacre). Only Russia did some of that to Germany after it lost WW2. In what is now Israel, Palestinians had lived for generations on land that was later acquired by rich settlers from the U.S. So we should really be looking at whether lands conquered by the Nazis should remain under German control after WW2. IMO, Poland should no more have remained part of the Reich than Israel should remain part of Palestine.

You are ignoring the many native Israelis in Israel and their ancestral ties to the land. And you are glossing over the mass sale of land from Palestinians to Jewish people in the 1800 and 1900s- those Palestinians essentially sold their birthright. What is obvious to me is that there are two native peoples inhabiting the same land and the practical solution to the dispute would be a two state solution, since they largely cannot peacefully co-exist.

I'm very skeptical about the "ancestral ties" claim. Yes, the Romans drove out the Jews a couple of millennia ago, but the indigenous people who remained have lived there for thousands of years, while many of the Jews who left mingled with Europeans, North Africans, and people in the Iberian peninsula. I am, in large part, an Ashkenazi Jew, and I have blue eyes, fair skin, and red-blond hair, as do my children. This comes from our central European ancestry. I could probably find a way to claim some land in what is now Israel, but I find that idea immoral. My "ancestral ties" to Europe are at least as strong as they are to what is now Israel, and after thousands of years of my family's absence, I have no claim on that land. I could just as well demand a piece of Poland! The same is true for many of those who have settled in Israel.

The other "ancestral tie" is based on God's supposed promise to Abraham. However, you can follow any of the three major monotheistic religions and nevertheless believe that Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses never existed and were literary creations that reflect human efforts to understand the divine. A literal interpretation of ancient scriptures is an all-around losing proposition for everyone. It says more about the thought processes of ancient and primitive people than it does about any God or gods. Modern theological movements generally move toward the abstract and pro-social and away from the literal and tribal.

The real reasons for Jewish claims of land in "Israel" are extremely selfish. The thug who said of stealing a Palestinian home, "If I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it," was right. These people absolutely are stealing. He was a New Yorker! What "ancestral tie" did he have that the person whose home he stole did not? These people have no morals, and their only allegiance is to feathering their own nests. They operate from narcissism and sociopathy, and that is why Israel has developed into a state that has no problem committing genocide. The U.S. should not be subsidizing this evil.



.

Oh are you "extremely skeptical" you effin Nazi?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

The bolded is pretty much my view.

F*ck Bibi and F*ck the Palestinian terrorist sympathizers.

+ into infinity

Guess Israel and its supporters have shown the world its true colors. Killing 22,000, 60-80,000 wounded and 2 million homeless. Only religious fanatics think it is okay. What kind of religion supports a genocide.

The one calling for jihad and global intifada against all Jews?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

You've extended my analogy with Nazi Germany to post-Nazi Germany. The real question is whether pre-1948 Palestine should cease to exist, as you seem to imply it should. Zionists ethnically cleansed the area of Palestinians and, in some cases, massacred them (e.g., the Tantura massacre). Only Russia did some of that to Germany after it lost WW2. In what is now Israel, Palestinians had lived for generations on land that was later acquired by rich settlers from the U.S. So we should really be looking at whether lands conquered by the Nazis should remain under German control after WW2. IMO, Poland should no more have remained part of the Reich than Israel should remain part of Palestine.

You are ignoring the many native Israelis in Israel and their ancestral ties to the land. And you are glossing over the mass sale of land from Palestinians to Jewish people in the 1800 and 1900s- those Palestinians essentially sold their birthright. What is obvious to me is that there are two native peoples inhabiting the same land and the practical solution to the dispute would be a two state solution, since they largely cannot peacefully co-exist.

Oh they could do-exist is Israel was a secular country. Israel must drop the Jew state.

That’s absurd. Palestinians want an Islamic state, so you dear, are a hypocrite.

So? Gulf monarchies are Islamic states, and Israel is chomping at the bit to normalize relations with them. I guess the right to have an Islamic state is just like the right of self defense - available only to the right people?

Dude. That's what normalizing relations means. It means now I trust you to stop trying to kill me all the time, so we can live peacefully and have trade that benefits us both. It means both sides give up something - trying to kill you, encouraging others not to have normalized relations with you - because that way we both get something.

Do you expect Hamas to enjoy normalized relations with the people they just slaughtered en masse?

You people are just such dumb idiots when it comes to understanding how compromise and negotiation works. Ceasefire, you screech, so we can kill you! You're so BAD for not letting us just kill you some more!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

You've extended my analogy with Nazi Germany to post-Nazi Germany. The real question is whether pre-1948 Palestine should cease to exist, as you seem to imply it should. Zionists ethnically cleansed the area of Palestinians and, in some cases, massacred them (e.g., the Tantura massacre). Only Russia did some of that to Germany after it lost WW2. In what is now Israel, Palestinians had lived for generations on land that was later acquired by rich settlers from the U.S. So we should really be looking at whether lands conquered by the Nazis should remain under German control after WW2. IMO, Poland should no more have remained part of the Reich than Israel should remain part of Palestine.

You are ignoring the many native Israelis in Israel and their ancestral ties to the land. And you are glossing over the mass sale of land from Palestinians to Jewish people in the 1800 and 1900s- those Palestinians essentially sold their birthright. What is obvious to me is that there are two native peoples inhabiting the same land and the practical solution to the dispute would be a two state solution, since they largely cannot peacefully co-exist.

Oh they could do-exist is Israel was a secular country. Israel must drop the Jew state.

That’s absurd. Palestinians want an Islamic state, so you dear, are a hypocrite.

So? Gulf monarchies are Islamic states, and Israel is chomping at the bit to normalize relations with them. I guess the right to have an Islamic state is just like the right of self defense - available only to the right people?

Dude. That's what normalizing relations means. It means now I trust you to stop trying to kill me all the time, so we can live peacefully and have trade that benefits us both. It means both sides give up something - trying to kill you, encouraging others not to have normalized relations with you - because that way we both get something.

Do you expect Hamas to enjoy normalized relations with the people they just slaughtered en masse?

You people are just such dumb idiots when it comes to understanding how compromise and negotiation works. Ceasefire, you screech, so we can kill you! You're so BAD for not letting us just kill you some more!

Then don't pretend it's about an Islamic state. There is nothing wrong with an Islamic states.

Israel has slaughtered more Palestinians, way way way more. Yet it pretends it can normalize but Hamas can't?

You really don't understand the Middle East, at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol, by whom would Israel be occupied?germany was split into four territories occupied by the allied forces.

If Hamas “occupied” Israel that would be the end of Israelis. They are incapable of humanity. As bad as everyone claims Israel is, Hamas is far worse and is comprised of savage barbarians… yet everyone is in their favor. It’s beyond comprehension. And I say this as an anti settler, anti Netanyahu person. Yall have lost your minds.

lol you’re anti settler, okay: tell us, what sort of resistance tactics would you permit for Palestinians who suffer from settlers and the settlement movement? Guns? Rocks? Or like everyone else, sad songs?

Civil rights movement didn’t happen with terrorism. Neither did suffrage, or birth control or abortion. It occurred with peaceful activism and education and tolerance. You are falling over yourself to defend terrorism. And separately, the West Bank is not relevant to what’s happening in Gaza with Hamas, and your effort to conflate the two is an attempt to deflect from Hamas, an entity that is indefensible.

Terrorism was a tool used by almost every colonized people to expel colonizers including Mandela

Now terrorism is a “tool.” This is why people with your perspective on the conflict are not taken seriously. It’s sad because it does your cause a disservice.

It's a statement of historical fact rather than an opinion on the ethics of terrorism. Bear in mind that Zionists used terrorism in creating Israel. Remember the King David Hotel?

The JNC (Jewish national committee) denounced the bombing of the king David hotel. Palestinians celebrate attacks on Israeli civilians.

Additionally the Irgun placed three separate phone calls urging British to evacuate the king David before they bombed it, to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas and jihadists specifically target civilians to incite fear. I denounce terrorism of all forms. Palestinians sympathizers denounce selectively.

Just like you extend the “right to defend itself” selectively. What is the right of Palestinians to defend against settler violence? Do they have one?

There aren't settlers in Gaza - but yes, of course, West Bank residents should also be able to defend themselves when extremists come to hurt them.

Not yet! But if the moralest army in the world has their say, then not for long!

[Anonymous]

So you have 1 group, known terrorist group. Kills 1200. Commits war crimes. Kills babies. Rapes women.

And you have another group, moralist army. Kills 25,000. Commits war crimes. Kills babies. Shoots their own hostages and survivors sheltering in churches.

Pretty bad when the terrorists somehow sound more reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol, by whom would Israel be occupied?germany was split into four territories occupied by the allied forces.

If Hamas “occupied” Israel that would be the end of Israelis. They are incapable of humanity. As bad as everyone claims Israel is, Hamas is far worse and is comprised of savage barbarians… yet everyone is in their favor. It’s beyond comprehension. And I say this as an anti settler, anti Netanyahu person. Yall have lost your minds.

lol you’re anti settler, okay: tell us, what sort of resistance tactics would you permit for Palestinians who suffer from settlers and the settlement movement? Guns? Rocks? Or like everyone else, sad songs?

Civil rights movement didn’t happen with terrorism. Neither did suffrage, or birth control or abortion. It occurred with peaceful activism and education and tolerance. You are falling over yourself to defend terrorism. And separately, the West Bank is not relevant to what’s happening in Gaza with Hamas, and your effort to conflate the two is an attempt to deflect from Hamas, an entity that is indefensible.

Terrorism was a tool used by almost every colonized people to expel colonizers including Mandela

Now terrorism is a “tool.” This is why people with your perspective on the conflict are not taken seriously. It’s sad because it does your cause a disservice.

It's a statement of historical fact rather than an opinion on the ethics of terrorism. Bear in mind that Zionists used terrorism in creating Israel. Remember the King David Hotel?

The JNC (Jewish national committee) denounced the bombing of the king David hotel. Palestinians celebrate attacks on Israeli civilians.

Additionally the Irgun placed three separate phone calls urging British to evacuate the king David before they bombed it, to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas and jihadists specifically target civilians to incite fear. I denounce terrorism of all forms. Palestinians sympathizers denounce selectively.

Just like you extend the “right to defend itself” selectively. What is the right of Palestinians to defend against settler violence? Do they have one?

Absolutely.

But there aren't any settlers in Gaza. Palestinians in Gaza have been free to do as the wish for nearly twenty years.

The Palestinians in Gaza made a terrible choice. Invading Israel and murdering and raping all those innocent people. Taking hostages and abusing them.

What did they expect? This is the most right wing government in the history of Israel. Palestinians in Gaza knew exactly what would happen when they invaded Israel and committed their atrocities. Every death in Gaza, all the destruction, is what they chose.

Where is the Palestinian plan for a two state solution? Where are the Palestinian leaders that can deliver anything?

There is no plan. There are no rational leaders. It's just terror and annihilation. And it's been like that for 80 years. Rejecting their own state. Multiple wars. Causing civil wars in Lebanon and Jordan. Massacring athletes at the Olympics. Intifadas. Supporting Saddam Hussein and the invasion of Kuwait. Cheering 9/11. Torturing and raping and murdering a bunch of lefties on kibbutzes and music festivals.

Palestinians are in charge of their own destiny. And this is what they've chosen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you have 1 group, known terrorist group. Kills 1200. Commits war crimes. Kills babies. Rapes women.

And you have another group, moralist army. Kills 25,000. Commits war crimes. Kills babies. Shoots their own hostages and survivors sheltering in churches.

Pretty bad when the terrorists somehow sound more reasonable.

To be fair, Hamas and its associates probably killed about 600 people. About half of those killed on 10/7 appear to have died by "friendly" fire. Many Israelis are reporting this. Also, Hamas probably did not kill any babies. Certainly, it did not behead 40 babies or hang dead babies on a clothesline, as some propagandists lied. Sadly, Hamas members and/or the attackers that accompanied them probably did rape women, even when you take into account that Israel lies routinely and cannot be trusted. It is unclear why Israel does not allow the Red Cross to conduct an independent investigation into the alleged rapes. I suspect that there were rapes but that the extent of the rapes has been exaggerated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

You've extended my analogy with Nazi Germany to post-Nazi Germany. The real question is whether pre-1948 Palestine should cease to exist, as you seem to imply it should. Zionists ethnically cleansed the area of Palestinians and, in some cases, massacred them (e.g., the Tantura massacre). Only Russia did some of that to Germany after it lost WW2. In what is now Israel, Palestinians had lived for generations on land that was later acquired by rich settlers from the U.S. So we should really be looking at whether lands conquered by the Nazis should remain under German control after WW2. IMO, Poland should no more have remained part of the Reich than Israel should remain part of Palestine.

You are ignoring the many native Israelis in Israel and their ancestral ties to the land. And you are glossing over the mass sale of land from Palestinians to Jewish people in the 1800 and 1900s- those Palestinians essentially sold their birthright. What is obvious to me is that there are two native peoples inhabiting the same land and the practical solution to the dispute would be a two state solution, since they largely cannot peacefully co-exist.

I'm very skeptical about the "ancestral ties" claim. Yes, the Romans drove out the Jews a couple of millennia ago, but the indigenous people who remained have lived there for thousands of years, while many of the Jews who left mingled with Europeans, North Africans, and people in the Iberian peninsula. I am, in large part, an Ashkenazi Jew, and I have blue eyes, fair skin, and red-blond hair, as do my children. This comes from our central European ancestry. I could probably find a way to claim some land in what is now Israel, but I find that idea immoral. My "ancestral ties" to Europe are at least as strong as they are to what is now Israel, and after thousands of years of my family's absence, I have no claim on that land. I could just as well demand a piece of Poland! The same is true for many of those who have settled in Israel.

The other "ancestral tie" is based on God's supposed promise to Abraham. However, you can follow any of the three major monotheistic religions and nevertheless believe that Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses never existed and were literary creations that reflect human efforts to understand the divine. A literal interpretation of ancient scriptures is an all-around losing proposition for everyone. It says more about the thought processes of ancient and primitive people than it does about any God or gods. Modern theological movements generally move toward the abstract and pro-social and away from the literal and tribal.

The real reasons for Jewish claims of land in "Israel" are extremely selfish. The thug who said of stealing a Palestinian home, "If I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it," was right. These people absolutely are stealing. He was a New Yorker! What "ancestral tie" did he have that the person whose home he stole did not? These people have no morals, and their only allegiance is to feathering their own nests. They operate from narcissism and sociopathy, and that is why Israel has developed into a state that has no problem committing genocide. The U.S. should not be subsidizing this evil.



.

Well, your skepticism is irrelevant. That said, your assertions were reasonable-seeming enough until your last paragraph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you have 1 group, known terrorist group. Kills 1200. Commits war crimes. Kills babies. Rapes women.

And you have another group, moralist army. Kills 25,000. Commits war crimes. Kills babies. Shoots their own hostages and survivors sheltering in churches.

Pretty bad when the terrorists somehow sound more reasonable.

To be fair, Hamas and its associates probably killed about 600 people. About half of those killed on 10/7 appear to have died by "friendly" fire. Many Israelis are reporting this. Also, Hamas probably did not kill any babies. Certainly, it did not behead 40 babies or hang dead babies on a clothesline, as some propagandists lied. Sadly, Hamas members and/or the attackers that accompanied them probably did rape women, even when you take into account that Israel lies routinely and cannot be trusted. It is unclear why Israel does not allow the Red Cross to conduct an independent investigation into the alleged rapes. I suspect that there were rapes but that the extent of the rapes has been exaggerated.

Good grief. To still be taking this position at this point….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you have 1 group, known terrorist group. Kills 1200. Commits war crimes. Kills babies. Rapes women.

And you have another group, moralist army. Kills 25,000. Commits war crimes. Kills babies. Shoots their own hostages and survivors sheltering in churches.

Pretty bad when the terrorists somehow sound more reasonable.

But of course they don’t. There’s a good side in this war and, sorry, Hamas ain’t it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol, by whom would Israel be occupied?germany was split into four territories occupied by the allied forces.

If Hamas “occupied” Israel that would be the end of Israelis. They are incapable of humanity. As bad as everyone claims Israel is, Hamas is far worse and is comprised of savage barbarians… yet everyone is in their favor. It’s beyond comprehension. And I say this as an anti settler, anti Netanyahu person. Yall have lost your minds.

lol you’re anti settler, okay: tell us, what sort of resistance tactics would you permit for Palestinians who suffer from settlers and the settlement movement? Guns? Rocks? Or like everyone else, sad songs?

Civil rights movement didn’t happen with terrorism. Neither did suffrage, or birth control or abortion. It occurred with peaceful activism and education and tolerance. You are falling over yourself to defend terrorism. And separately, the West Bank is not relevant to what’s happening in Gaza with Hamas, and your effort to conflate the two is an attempt to deflect from Hamas, an entity that is indefensible.

Terrorism was a tool used by almost every colonized people to expel colonizers including Mandela

Now terrorism is a “tool.” This is why people with your perspective on the conflict are not taken seriously. It’s sad because it does your cause a disservice.

It's a statement of historical fact rather than an opinion on the ethics of terrorism. Bear in mind that Zionists used terrorism in creating Israel. Remember the King David Hotel?

The JNC (Jewish national committee) denounced the bombing of the king David hotel. Palestinians celebrate attacks on Israeli civilians.

Additionally the Irgun placed three separate phone calls urging British to evacuate the king David before they bombed it, to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas and jihadists specifically target civilians to incite fear. I denounce terrorism of all forms. Palestinians sympathizers denounce selectively.

Just like you extend the “right to defend itself” selectively. What is the right of Palestinians to defend against settler violence? Do they have one?

Absolutely.

But there aren't any settlers in Gaza. Palestinians in Gaza have been free to do as the wish for nearly twenty years.

The Palestinians in Gaza made a terrible choice. Invading Israel and murdering and raping all those innocent people. Taking hostages and abusing them.

What did they expect? This is the most right wing government in the history of Israel. Palestinians in Gaza knew exactly what would happen when they invaded Israel and committed their atrocities. Every death in Gaza, all the destruction, is what they chose.

Where is the Palestinian plan for a two state solution? Where are the Palestinian leaders that can deliver anything?

There is no plan. There are no rational leaders. It's just terror and annihilation. And it's been like that for 80 years. Rejecting their own state. Multiple wars. Causing civil wars in Lebanon and Jordan. Massacring athletes at the Olympics. Intifadas. Supporting Saddam Hussein and the invasion of Kuwait. Cheering 9/11. Torturing and raping and murdering a bunch of lefties on kibbutzes and music festivals.

Palestinians are in charge of their own destiny. And this is what they've chosen.

Do you really think there aren’t people with family in the West Bank are in Hamas? Yes settlers didn’t live in Gaza but Hamas isn’t fighting for just Gaza. It’s for all the Palestinians Or so they say. Israel was stupid enough to think their foolish divide and conquer strategy would work. Palestinians are Palestinians regardless of Christianity or Islam or West Bank or Gaza

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another woman was found dead today. Murdered by Hamas.

Very few twenty-something women were released in the latest hostage swap.

All you pro-Hamas posters are just misogynist pigs. What is wrong with you?

Agree that is horrific. IDF killed an average of 1000 children/week for the last two months. All you pro-IDF posters are just child murderers. What is wrong with you?

You're ridiculous.

Just pointing out that two can play this game. It's stupid to accuse those of us who are horrified by the IDF's rapid killing of thousands of children as pro-Hamas. Yes, the rape and murder of women in war is terrible. But it's utterly disingenuous when a pro-Israeli poster claims horror for the rapes of women but shows little sympathy, or even tries to justify, the slaughter of thousands of children. The IDF, one of the best, most advanced militaries in the world, deliberately chose to use dumb bombs in extremely dense urban areas. They killed babies in NICUs and families seeking refuge in churches rather than chose a military strategy that would be more precise.

You're right about Israel's conduct--I think that they've made some terrible strategic/tactical decisions. But there are also limits to exactly how "precise" a military campaign can be.

But you're also being disingenuous (or perhaps are legitimately unaware?) about exactly who's opposing Israel and their motives.

For example, are you aware that polling shows that 57% of American Muslims think Hamas was at least " somewhat justified" on 10/7?

Wanna guess what polling of Palestinians shows WRT the existence of Israel, violence vs. nonviolence, etc.?

You don't understand the audience. To you, the Existence of Israel as a Jewish State is a sacred cow, and everything and everyone must bow to it. To you, the original expulsions of 1947-48, the oppression, the unequal rights, the land grab, the settlement expansion, the imprisonment, the stripping of civil rights, the unrestrained killing by IDF are all unfortunate but minor events that must be discounted because Existence of Israel. Well guess what, American Muslims don't see it that way and Palestinians DEFINITELY don't see it that way. They don't agree with wholesale dismissal of what happened to them as "unfortunate but whatever". They don't agree it is a minor thing. They may not all agree that violence is entirely unjustified in response to oppression. And they don't see why they should just stop caring about what happened and what is happening to them today because Existence of Israel.

Your alliances and sympathies are with Israel because you understand them and feel closer to them. They don't. Okay.

This is very well-stated. I admit I fell into the "Existence of Israel" faction for much of my life. It was just the default view, so part of it was laziness. I thought if I didn't think that way, I might be considered antisemitic, so part of it was cowardice. I knew very little about the Palestinian experience or the history of the region, so part of it was ignorance. I felt Jews deserved compensation for the Holocaust, so part of it was misguided compassion that overlooked the rights of indigenous Palestinians. However, it's become increasingly difficult to ignore Israel's outrageous behavior and its appalling crimes against humanity. For me, it began with discomfort over settler violence in the West Bank. As I've delved further, my stance has shifted radically. Israel was built on terrorism and a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient texts that are almost certainly not historically valid and are not legally binding. Israel is currently a cynical, manipulative, and racist state that, unfortunately, has far too much in common with Nazi Germany. Like Nazi Germany, it is a technically advanced power that is determined to remove or exterminate people it finds "inferior" and inconvenient. Israel has become morally abhorrent and opposes 21st-century values of inclusion. I would prefer a Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Hamas, but terrorism has historically always been part of overthrowing colonialism. It is absolutely beyond the pale that the United States is propping up this fascist state and forcing its citizens to subsidize genocide.

Or, israel is a sovereign state with a very right wing government (a fact I agree is regrettable), living next door to radical jihadists. Hamas is not your friendly neighborhood victim.

Your views have indeed shifted and are quite radical.

Also, regarding your flawed comparison to Nazi germany, Germany did not cease to exist, as you seem to imply Israel should, after the end of the third Reich.

You've extended my analogy with Nazi Germany to post-Nazi Germany. The real question is whether pre-1948 Palestine should cease to exist, as you seem to imply it should. Zionists ethnically cleansed the area of Palestinians and, in some cases, massacred them (e.g., the Tantura massacre). Only Russia did some of that to Germany after it lost WW2. In what is now Israel, Palestinians had lived for generations on land that was later acquired by rich settlers from the U.S. So we should really be looking at whether lands conquered by the Nazis should remain under German control after WW2. IMO, Poland should no more have remained part of the Reich than Israel should remain part of Palestine.

You are ignoring the many native Israelis in Israel and their ancestral ties to the land. And you are glossing over the mass sale of land from Palestinians to Jewish people in the 1800 and 1900s- those Palestinians essentially sold their birthright. What is obvious to me is that there are two native peoples inhabiting the same land and the practical solution to the dispute would be a two state solution, since they largely cannot peacefully co-exist.

Oh they could do-exist is Israel was a secular country. Israel must drop the Jew state.

That’s absurd. Palestinians want an Islamic state, so you dear, are a hypocrite.

Projection. You want a Jewish state.
Palestinians are not religious when it comes to identity.

That’s actually what distinguishes the entire Levant (Syria, Lebanon, Palestine) from the Gulf Arabs . Islam is not the first identity for Levant and if you ask the Gulf Arabs, they aren’t real Arabs anyway . They are seen as half “white”/“European”

[Anonymous]

Sounds like something is kicking off in Iran...


A suspected cyberattack paralyzes the majority of gas stations across Iran

https://apnews.com/article/iran-gas-stations-cyberattack-a9ae33c352812e40ca3d255a2533fea9



Also:

BREAKING: Massive explosion at Iran's aviation and space force headquarters in Tehran.

These headquarters supply missiles and UAVs to regime proxies in the region.

[Anonymous]

This is also why Syria largely rejected the Mossad and U.S. attempt to create the “Islamic state” there. That is foreign to Syria and Levantine culture and it’s why they backed their support to Assad despite their hatred of him as well . Funny nobody mentions many Syrian refugees moved back during the Trump admin when Trump agreed to work with Putin to defeat ISIS first and foremost instead of defeating Assad which is what the party lines /establishment in Washington wanted