Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

As a former small Western county attorney, I am unsurprised by the failures of the local cops in this situation. This is aside from whether our cops should ever have to face perpetrators armed with weapons of war. This incident highlights a root reason why we have problems in policing in this country - so many of our law enforcement are woefully undertrained and untested. Other developed countries require years of education before putting law enforcement officers on the street, but in many American jurisdictions, they have as little as a 40 hour training and in some cases they are allowed 12 months of working before having to complete that training. 40 HOURS. The stylist who colors your hair has much more training.

We need police reform in America. We need educated well trained cops.

[Anonymous]

Interview with Ugalde first responder who found out his 10 year old had been killed while tending to another girl covered in blood who was crying that her friend had been killed. Now I am bawling.
https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1529622137174204416

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, standing down has become popular, but mighty deadly. Perhaps rethink that nonsense.

Commander on the scene determined it was a "barricaded subject" situation and not an "active shooter" situation. This led to the stand down. In hindsight, it was the wrong call and contributed to additional loss of life.

What time did he make that call?

It was a bad call during a very stressful time. I am sure he feels beyond horrible.

There were lots of mistakes make. Someone left that darn door open. That was an oversight with tragic consequences.

It’s not an “oversight.” It is a breach of the most fundamental security protocol, bordering on criminal negligence.

Yeah, when someone props a door open at my office or badges in a visitor, they get fired. Like, on the spot. There is no warning issued or chance to get written up.

This teacher did it and people died. This teacher should never teach again.

In some professions, you don't get to make mistakes. Simple as that.

I hope after firing the teacher, they also fire the SRO, the useless police, the gun shop owner (who sold the assailant his weapons), and the members in the state legislature that thought it was a good idea to reduce the age of firearm purchase to 18. Because if that teacher has blood on her hands, the rest of them are drenched in it. None of them - from the PD to mayor to governor - should be allowed to work in their jobs again.

As far as it is known:

1. The licensed gun shop violated no law in selling AR15s to an 18 year old who passed the NCIS instant check (and almost certainly is immunized from liability).

2. If by SRO, you mean the chief of the ISD police, then yes that person should be terminated, if a resignation isn’t immediately forthcoming. The buck stops with the incident commander.

3. There is a chain of command. That’s the unfortunate reality when (bad) orders are issued.

4. Federal law permits anyone 18 or older to purchase a rifle or shotgun, just as God intended, because Amurikan exceptionalism.

5. There are myriad reason to criticize the cynical fetishization of gun culture by those holding elective office but lay blame where it is due: the voters who put people like Abbott and Paxson in office. It is emblematic of a polarized, poorly informed electorate misled by those spewing forth lies and propaganda hour after hour on TV, talk radio and internet. There are caravans of immigrants coming to take your guns and teach your kids CRT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the teacher did indeed leave the door open I don’t know how they would live with that. My feelings toward them move back and forth between scorn and pity.

You've got to be effing kidding me. This is not on a teacher. GTFO with that nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interview with Ugalde first responder who found out his 10 year old had been killed while tending to another girl covered in blood who was crying that her friend had been killed and when she says her friend's name he finds out it was his daughter. Now I am bawling.
https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1529622137174204416

Oh God, that interview, "How do you look at this girl and shoot her? Oh, my baby. How do you shoot my baby?

[Anonymous]

Really lovely to see the cops and their apologists starting to attack teachers just trying to exist in their schools - "it's their fault, they left a door unlocked!"

I'll never forgive Chris Christie for his attacks on teachers. It was disgraceful and set the tone for the rest of the rightwing lunatics that it was open season on educators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really lovely to see the cops and their apologists starting to attack teachers just trying to exist in their schools - "it's their fault, they left a door unlocked!"

I'll never forgive Chris Christie for his attacks on teachers. It was disgraceful and set the tone for the rest of the rightwing lunatics that it was open season on educators.

+1

Victim blaming POSs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the teacher did indeed leave the door open I don’t know how they would live with that. My feelings toward them move back and forth between scorn and pity.

You've got to be effing kidding me. This is not on a teacher. GTFO with that nonsense.

It's deflection and spin from idiots who would rather blame anybody rather than admit that America is sick with too many guns in the hands of people who use them to perpetrate crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a former small Western county attorney, I am unsurprised by the failures of the local cops in this situation. This is aside from whether our cops should ever have to face perpetrators armed with weapons of war. This incident highlights a root reason why we have problems in policing in this country - so many of our law enforcement are woefully undertrained and untested. Other developed countries require years of education before putting law enforcement officers on the street, but in many American jurisdictions, they have as little as a 40 hour training and in some cases they are allowed 12 months of working before having to complete that training. 40 HOURS. The stylist who colors your hair has much more training.

We need police reform in America. We need educated well trained cops.

This town had a swat team …that did not show up. I would take the Uk police reforms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, standing down has become popular, but mighty deadly. Perhaps rethink that nonsense.

Commander on the scene determined it was a "barricaded subject" situation and not an "active shooter" situation. This led to the stand down. In hindsight, it was the wrong call and contributed to additional loss of life.

What time did he make that call?

It was a bad call during a very stressful time. I am sure he feels beyond horrible.

There were lots of mistakes make. Someone left that darn door open. That was an oversight with tragic consequences.

It’s not an “oversight.” It is a breach of the most fundamental security protocol, bordering on criminal negligence.

In a normal country an open door would not cost 21 humans their lives within minutes.

In a deranged society where guns matter more than people I guess it could though.

Fire code mandates that the door not be propped open. Pretty basic stuff.

The issue is not the door.

The issue is the guns.

The issue is the guns.

The issue is the guns.

Doors are not weapons, video games are not weapons, being weird and lonely is not a weapon.

Guns are weapons and they are the issue.

x1 million

[Anonymous]

If the teacher did indeed leave the door open I don’t know how they would live with that. My feelings toward them move back and forth between scorn and pity.

You can just imagine that the teacher who propped the door is one of the ones who was massacred and that will make it all better for you. #DoorControl

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s two ideas that seem to me entirely constitutionally defensible (I’m an Ivy League trained lawyer):

— enact a law modeled on CPS where if someone has suspicion to believe a person poses a direct threat, they can call a hotline to report it, and the guns can be removed from the house pending a show cause hearing. That is what happens in cases of suspected child abuse, and there is a constitutional right to raise your children. I can’t believe the right to a gun is more firmly engrained that the right to your children.

— require two references and an interview prior to buying a gun, the way they do for many jobs or volunteer positions. This seems to me an essential part of a well regulated militia. It should not be easier to get an AR-15 than it is to get a rescue dog. The shooter’s grandfather told the press he never would have let him have guns. The Tucson shooter’s parents were desperately trying to get him mental health. The Colorado shooter was so obviously mentally impaired any interview would have immediately revealed it.

And add raising the age to 21 to purchase guns.

Florida, a red state, did enact legislation after the Parkland shootings including raising the age limit to 21 and adding "red flag" laws that are similar to what you describe in the first idea. We can do this. Even among gun owners, we can come to a consensus on raising the age limit, having real background checks/waiting periods, and red flag laws. It's the f***ing NRA and other gun lobbyists that are holding us back. I really believe that a nationwide popular vote on these issues would pass them overwhelmingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
In a normal country an open door would not cost 21 humans their lives within minutes.

In a deranged society where guns matter more than people I guess it could though.

+100

It's stupid to blame the open door for this.

Did you know in other countries they don't lock doors? And they also don't have active shooter drills.

My child was raised in America and I was mortified that starting the age of 5 she had to practice to hide from people to shoot her. How is this normalized in our society?
She grew up with a notion that she may be shot at any minute. How is this normal?!!

[Anonymous]

I am flabbergasted at the sheer number of oversights that happened here. How is this possible?

SRO drove past the hovering subject
No one notified the school of the gunman in the area
Police hovering in the hallway while shootings were taking place

Just three of many where the chain of command failed. Everyone always says you have one job. One job. Did no one do their job until the border patrol officer shot the subject dead?!

[Anonymous]

My child was at Edmund Burke School on April 22 when a gunman opened fire. They sought shelter in a locked storage room with peers. They had a cell phone through which they could communicate with 9-1-1 and text us directly, and were able to recharge the phone until the time of reunification hours later. All classrooms and other spaces should have a universal charger.

I cannot begin to imagine a circumstance in which we were not able to communicate with our child and we were forced to stand by helplessly for over an hour while police did nothing except taze and pepper spray frantic parents.

Thankfully the situation did not result in any deaths but the police were both empathetic and professional. They maintained a perimeter several blocks from the school and continued to pass on such information as they could, including whether the tactical teams had entered the building and whether the gunman had been apprehended or neutralized. We were able to pass on information from our child — which admittedly wasn’t much other than location and well being — in real time and that was radioed to the incident command. The officer followed up periodically to see if anything had changed.

One of the issues that was problematic was when police were searching the school they made announcements to the effect that students should leave the shelter-in-place spaces. Students were reluctant so because they couldn’t be sure that this wasn’t the shooter making the announcement. This is important issue for further training as we have learned that police called out to students to respond at Cobb resulting in one being shot.

We neverthess will be forever grateful for the remarkable manner in which this was handled. It is a difficult job that can be performed with humanity.