Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Private companies already run ATC in many airports, under contract with the USG.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Listening to the scanner app. This is horrible. Just wait until President Musk shuts down the FAA.

Please keep the hate elsewhere.

Okay. Let’s talk instead about how unelected oligarch Musk attacked the FAA repeatedly because he didn’t like them fining SpaceX, and then demanded the head resign one year into his five year term. And so he did! On January 20. Well done, Elon. We totally don’t need government to function!

I just googled this to confirm, and it’s true, he quit 9 days earlier.

OMG I’m terrified who Trump might install. Between this and the military being at fault, it is 100% on them. Let’s see some leadership today to instill confidence that Americans are safe flying and that they’re taking this seriously.

Instead we have a frightened president who sends out messages like an 85 year old grandma on Facebook. There is no leadership.

I don’t think he’s “frightened “

Yes he is. Terrified. He looks bad. His administration looks bad. He's all about WINNING!

He is losing bigly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been involved in Blackhawk accident investigations. Blackhawks are frequently equiped with non standard "special ops" gear and do special ops training. I have no idea if this is the case here, but it could explain why certain things aren't making sense.

I know the Daily Mail has a lot of issues but this seems like a pretty fair and informative pov from a Blackhawk pilot.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14343079/Washington-DC-plane-crash-helicopter-pilot.html

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Listening to the scanner app. This is horrible. Just wait until President Musk shuts down the FAA.

Please keep the hate elsewhere.

Okay. Let’s talk instead about how unelected oligarch Musk attacked the FAA repeatedly because he didn’t like them fining SpaceX, and then demanded the head resign one year into his five year term. And so he did! On January 20. Well done, Elon. We totally don’t need government to function!

I just googled this to confirm, and it’s true, he quit 9 days earlier.

OMG I’m terrified who Trump might install. Between this and the military being at fault, it is 100% on them. Let’s see some leadership today to instill confidence that Americans are safe flying and that they’re taking this seriously.

Instead we have a frightened president who sends out messages like an 85 year old grandma on Facebook. There is no leadership.

I don’t think he’s “frightened “

Yes he is. Terrified. He looks bad. His administration looks bad. He's all about WINNING!

He is losing bigly.

No, we are losing bigly.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I find it real bizarre that musk forced the head of the FAA to resign. Apparently he didn’t like the regulations and fines being suggested for Space-X misbehavior. It’s just so weird to me how we are subject to this fool’s desires.

I also read that several air traffic controllers had their job offers rescinded by the new administration. They have been reinstated now of course.

I don't think the word to describe this is "bizarre." I think the word is criminal.

Didn't he also cut the aviation safety committee?

You are correct. I don’t know why they would want to mess with something as important as aviation safety when it has nothing to do with politics.

https://newrepublic.com/post/190934/trump-aviation-safety-committee-dc-plane-crash

I am sure the advisory committee would have had valuable insight of consulted before this ill-fated flight was made.

Why would they have been consulted about this flight? These training flights happen on these exact routes all the time, day and night. That fact that this flight took place is nothing out of the ordinary- at least it hasn’t been for the past few yrs

Our secretary of defense said it was a required annual night evaluation, but I assume that meant required for the pilots, not for the route.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Trump mentioned DEI so that people would be talking about that instead of the Jan 20 removal of the FAA head, and his proposed fed cuts, it’s embarrassing that people think there’s anything to it beyond him wanting a scapegoat and to change the conversation. The fact that he immediately appointed a new head speaks to how he didn’t want that to be the focus.

Yep.

The narrative seemed to be that DEI has caused the ATC shortage because they were turning away qualified white men. Not that any of the pilots or ATC were a DEI hire.

Biden hired hundreds of new ATCs during his presidency. There are more needed but it requires funding, which the GOP cuts and limits at every turn.

Ding ding ding! They are trying to distract from the fact that congress has done everything possible over the years to limit funding for essential services, including ATC.

[Anonymous]

As someone said upthread, if DEI caused this accident and aviation safety has been reduced because of Biden, then it follows that none of us should fly until things are fixed. But of course, when asked if flying was safe, he said, yes yes people should fly it is safe.

Can't have it both ways.

Of course, he knows the economy would suffer if people stopped flying or reduced flying. And he doesn't want that....

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Great pilot analysis. He seems fairly confident the Helo simply had the wrong airplane in sight. Literally did not see the other plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgllf1L9_4

If true it's really hard to understand how they don't see the airplane right in front of them, both on radar and visually. Like I understand what this guy is saying and I assume he knows more than I do about what it's like in the air, but when you look at the radar and see the video footage, it's hard to make sense of because the plane is *right there.*

What is the reason they might not be looking at radar to see the closer plane? There are two pilots and a crew chief on the helicopter. Surely one of them would be in charge of checking radar especially while flying through that particular corridor knowing there will be planes taking off and landing from National. I don't get it.

It also raises the question of whether the night vision goggles they were wearing for training purposes obscured their vision to the degree that it made it more likely they would not see the closer jet and would think the area closer to them was clear. If that's the case, I'm sorry, but this is 100% on the DoD for permitting that kind of training flight near a very busy urban airport. Like completely unacceptable. I understand why an Army pilot would need training with night vision goggles but there is no reason why that should be done in an area where it could jeopardize civilian lives in that way.

So if this is the explanation, it honestly raises more questions than it answers. IMO.

I see what you are saying. But the Helo pilot acknowledges at least twice (maybe 3 times?) that he sses the aircraft and assumes responsibility for visual separation. So he's either a terrible judge of distance and incorrectly thought he would clear the plane, OR was focuses on creating visual deparation from a completely different plane.

It’s confirmation bias. When your brain thinks you’ve seen “the thing” it stops looking for other things, even if your eyes are on the sky/screen/whathaveyou.

We teach our residents “what do you look for after you see a fracture?” (on X-ray or CT, whatever). The answer is “the second fracture”.

I’ve seen people miss some crazy sh!t bc their eyes and brain are looking at what they think the pathology is, and they’re completely blind to the other issue that’s literally right there.

We take a lot of our error reduction education from the aviation industry, or at least try to. Pilots are better than we are at acknowledging the propensity for human error (probably bc a lot of us doctors are @ssholes).

We cleared our incoming space last night for a mass casualty event in prep for what we hoped were survivors. Awful when no one came.

This might make sense if there was one pilot on the helicopter. There were two plus a crew chief. You're telling me that three people collectively assumed the CRJ they were told was there by air traffic control was the one *behind* the jet they were about to run into, and not one of them at any point looked at the radar or just out the front of the helicopter and said 'whoa actually there's a plane right in front of us'?

It strains credulity.

MD from upthread. I’m not telling you anything about why this particular tragedy happened. I’m saying I also work in a high stress profession with lives on the line and have two decades of experience. And in that time I’ve seen the wrong side operated on, the wrong family informed their loved one was dead, the wrong med given (to fatal effect).

People really want to believe in the infallibility of both systems, and themselves. And truthfully, it’s a wonder things go as right as they do, as often as they do. Because when they go wrong, they go really wrong, as evidenced here.

I’m a nurse and I agree. The people who scare me the most professionally are the ones who think/say “I would never make a mistake.” They are more likely to skip through certain protocols (and I’m not saying it’s what happened here FYI). This situation also reminds me of what is at stake when people are working in high stress environments that are understaffed. The chances of a Swiss cheese type scenario that leads to a sentinel event/catastrophic event increases exponentially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The fact that the NSA is giving press interviews in front of the white house regarding the incident says a lot about the unspoken mission of the helicopter. Not the SecDef, not some Army general. The NSA.

Do you have a link to the interview?

On Reddit, the helicopter was noted as being above or at an address in McLean just outside Langley HQ.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just heard the pilot of the helicopter was a woman. Trump, Hegseth and MAGA are getting ready to ramp up their “I Told You So” tour.

You heard from Fox or maybe one of the MAGA nuts?

It is clearly a male voice from the radio.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r90Xw3tQC0I

Man, the male helo pilot (or copilot) said at both ATC warnings that yes, they have visual separation and then went and crashed into the underside of the jet.

W T F.

They could have been watch another plane. It is in the video. Though he could have stopped. Helicopter can hover.

No. Look at the radar. If the helicopter pilot was looking at another plane, he was staring out the side window of the helicopter.

The plane he crashed into is directly in front of him. Even accounting for the fact the plane is descending in altitude and the dark, there is no plausible way the helicopter pilot though they were talking about one of the other planes. There was only one other plane in the vicinity and it's to the side and behind the helicopter.

Also the ATC identifies the aircraft by call sign, which presumably should have shown up on helicopter radar as well.

Dude, they have navigational tools and fly off those most of all! They know an approaching aircraft’s altitude, speed, angle.

If pilot was “looking out since wrong side window” at a different jet farther away, that’s malpractice, malfeasance, negligence and pure idiocy.

They look at both the navs and outside visuals.

Guess which one is most accurate? To the point that in a white out or black out situation they only use it? The Navs!

Something dumb happened here.

And if it’s a cascade of substandard DEI admittances and promotions, so be it.

We need to know.

If it turns out she was piloting, it was the man who radioed they saw the plane. So, it can't entirely be her fault. I mean if you're headed straight for a plane, aren't the other two people on board going to start shouting? If this is going to be some DEI thing, I think we have to be honest that likely all of them are at fault, and perhaps whoever ordered them to be flying then.

Don’t let yourself be manipulated so easily.

NO ONE was focused on the race or gender of the pilots before Trump out that in your head.

Um, Pete Buttigeig spent 4 years focusing on race of people in the aviation industry, and specifically complaining there were too many white people.

Google it.

Here, I’ll help you out for starters:

https://abc7.com/pete-buttigieg-aviation-industry-compton-airline-issues/12033844/

No one considered this topic to be relevant to the crash, until Trump raised it. When asked for his evidence, all he came up with was “common sense.”

- except if you simply google Buttigeig’s public statements for the last 4 years, he constantly spoke about:

Diversity.

How about we maybe focus now on safety instead? Is that too much to ask??


(And safety is the topic here)

Diverse people can also be safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read multiple comments on Fox News and 80% say that Trump should not have said anything other than offering condolences, this is not even sitting right with his base.

I think he can’t hold back at all due to dementia. My personal opinion.

I agree. He made that tacky comment about praying for souls before they announced no survivors and keeps saying things that show he’s not putting 1 and 1 together.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Great pilot analysis. He seems fairly confident the Helo simply had the wrong airplane in sight. Literally did not see the other plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgllf1L9_4

If true it's really hard to understand how they don't see the airplane right in front of them, both on radar and visually. Like I understand what this guy is saying and I assume he knows more than I do about what it's like in the air, but when you look at the radar and see the video footage, it's hard to make sense of because the plane is *right there.*

What is the reason they might not be looking at radar to see the closer plane? There are two pilots and a crew chief on the helicopter. Surely one of them would be in charge of checking radar especially while flying through that particular corridor knowing there will be planes taking off and landing from National. I don't get it.

It also raises the question of whether the night vision goggles they were wearing for training purposes obscured their vision to the degree that it made it more likely they would not see the closer jet and would think the area closer to them was clear. If that's the case, I'm sorry, but this is 100% on the DoD for permitting that kind of training flight near a very busy urban airport. Like completely unacceptable. I understand why an Army pilot would need training with night vision goggles but there is no reason why that should be done in an area where it could jeopardize civilian lives in that way.

So if this is the explanation, it honestly raises more questions than it answers. IMO.

I see what you are saying. But the Helo pilot acknowledges at least twice (maybe 3 times?) that he sses the aircraft and assumes responsibility for visual separation. So he's either a terrible judge of distance and incorrectly thought he would clear the plane, OR was focuses on creating visual deparation from a completely different plane.

It’s confirmation bias. When your brain thinks you’ve seen “the thing” it stops looking for other things, even if your eyes are on the sky/screen/whathaveyou.

We teach our residents “what do you look for after you see a fracture?” (on X-ray or CT, whatever). The answer is “the second fracture”.

I’ve seen people miss some crazy sh!t bc their eyes and brain are looking at what they think the pathology is, and they’re completely blind to the other issue that’s literally right there.

We take a lot of our error reduction education from the aviation industry, or at least try to. Pilots are better than we are at acknowledging the propensity for human error (probably bc a lot of us doctors are @ssholes).

We cleared our incoming space last night for a mass casualty event in prep for what we hoped were survivors. Awful when no one came.

Did both the trainee pilot and the evaluator pilot miss the plane?

And the radar.

Do they do this training exercise not only at night during rush hour at DCA, but with NO RADAR on?

Someone pls confirm.

You really want some ignorant armchair detective to spin up a faux theory about this?

Reddit can. Aren’t DCUM folks even smarter and better educated?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I find it real bizarre that musk forced the head of the FAA to resign. Apparently he didn’t like the regulations and fines being suggested for Space-X misbehavior. It’s just so weird to me how we are subject to this fool’s desires.

I also read that several air traffic controllers had their job offers rescinded by the new administration. They have been reinstated now of course.

I don't think the word to describe this is "bizarre." I think the word is criminal.

Didn't he also cut the aviation safety committee?

You are correct. I don’t know why they would want to mess with something as important as aviation safety when it has nothing to do with politics.

https://newrepublic.com/post/190934/trump-aviation-safety-committee-dc-plane-crash

I am sure the advisory committee would have had valuable insight of consulted before this ill-fated flight was made.

Why would they have been consulted about this flight? These training flights happen on these exact routes all the time, day and night. That fact that this flight took place is nothing out of the ordinary- at least it hasn’t been for the past few yrs

Our secretary of defense said it was a required annual night evaluation, but I assume that meant required for the pilots, not for the route.

Yes. DCA closes for hours every night. That would be the time to do required night training … unless you have yo do it earlier so you can help someone avoid a drive home on the parkway.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Trump mentioned DEI so that people would be talking about that instead of the Jan 20 removal of the FAA head, and his proposed fed cuts, it’s embarrassing that people think there’s anything to it beyond him wanting a scapegoat and to change the conversation. The fact that he immediately appointed a new head speaks to how he didn’t want that to be the focus.

Yep.

The narrative seemed to be that DEI has caused the ATC shortage because they were turning away qualified white men. Not that any of the pilots or ATC were a DEI hire.

If that's their narrative they are going to have to prove it -- I dont' believe it.

ATC has been understaffed for years and according to Congressional testimony the issues are lack of funding and trouble getting ANYONE to do these jobs given the stress and hours involved (indicating they need to raise pay, increase benefits, and improve mental health support).

There is zero evidence that there were a bunch of white men applying for these jobs and getting turned down in order to keep the positions open for "DEI hires." There is evidence that Congress was not allocating enough money for them to hire and staff sufficient numbers.

There's been a class action lawsuit making it's way through the courts. Brigida v. DoT

Summary of what happened here:
https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-faas-hiring-scandal-a-quick-overview

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that the NSA is giving press interviews in front of the white house regarding the incident says a lot about the unspoken mission of the helicopter. Not the SecDef, not some Army general. The NSA.

Do you have a link to the interview?

On Reddit, the helicopter was noted as being above or at an address in McLean just outside Langley HQ.

Saud royalty, from what I’ve heard locally