Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

The reality is, these three people live in a very tiny world. They can’t see the gajillions of other opportunities that are out there for them. They only see things through the prism of what their dad had and controlled and what one is “winning” or cheating the others out of. Goodness knows any one of us would be like, screw these idiots and go live on an island (or in the UK)like their mom and just be rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

It’s mere proximity to power either way, folks.

Shiv had no role in Waystar beyond board member (and she’s still a board member, though not sure how that works with the acquisition).

Roman and Kendall boxed her out at CEO. Matsson dangled it and pulled it away. Sell, don’t sell, either way Shiv has no real power and is simply being promised things by men who have no history of ever coming through for her (sound familiar?).

There is no “win” for Shiv. I think she voted for the deal because it offers some closure. It’s over. She can stop pretending she and her sibs are going to run things together (they weren’t, it would be all Kendall, and she was right he’d be awful). The sale means it’s done.

I don’t know what to make of the Tom of it all. I don’t think she’s choosing him at all, much less choosing him so she can stay in proximity to power (she knows he’s an empty suit). I think she’ll probably wind up living on her own and doing her own thing whether they stay married or not.

Worst case, she’s her mom (rich, idle, annoying, bad mom). Best case, she starts her own comms company (she’s actually good at it, and very well connected in that world), makes an effort to be a better mom than hers was, and actually builds a little something for herself outside the world of Waystar and her family.

You really don’t see Shiv as the writers did, she lacks the capacity for love.

PP here and I don't know if Shiv has a capacity for love. I think it could go either way -- anyone can choose at any time to be a better person. Becoming a parent can change you. She could also just be a cold and distant mom like her own mother.

But my bigger point is that she didn't give up anything real in voting for the deal. It's not like she was going to have ANY power with Kendall at the helm. What does she have from him? A promise of some kind of role. Kendall is a drug addict who has abandoned his own children, who walked away from a dead waiter because it was easier than dealing with the consequences, who regularly plots against his family to amass more power for himself. Would YOU trust him?

She wasn't going to get anything either way. I think she genuinely just realized that Kendall would be a mess as CEO and while she hates Tom and he and Matsson screwed her over, probably the company would be better served by their leadership. I think it was a rational choice.

I concur with all of this. Lying to his siblings' faces about the waiter's death just crystallized it his awful character. Although all the characters were horrible people, he was the worst and, even more, never consistently demonstrated he was capable of serving the company well as CEO. She realized this, was ambivalent because it was a matter of choosing the lesser evil, even if that meant throwing support to the two who had most explicitly betrayed her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

It’s mere proximity to power either way, folks.

Shiv had no role in Waystar beyond board member (and she’s still a board member, though not sure how that works with the acquisition).

Roman and Kendall boxed her out at CEO. Matsson dangled it and pulled it away. Sell, don’t sell, either way Shiv has no real power and is simply being promised things by men who have no history of ever coming through for her (sound familiar?).

There is no “win” for Shiv. I think she voted for the deal because it offers some closure. It’s over. She can stop pretending she and her sibs are going to run things together (they weren’t, it would be all Kendall, and she was right he’d be awful). The sale means it’s done.

I don’t know what to make of the Tom of it all. I don’t think she’s choosing him at all, much less choosing him so she can stay in proximity to power (she knows he’s an empty suit). I think she’ll probably wind up living on her own and doing her own thing whether they stay married or not.

Worst case, she’s her mom (rich, idle, annoying, bad mom). Best case, she starts her own comms company (she’s actually good at it, and very well connected in that world), makes an effort to be a better mom than hers was, and actually builds a little something for herself outside the world of Waystar and her family.

You really don’t see Shiv as the writers did, she lacks the capacity for love.

PP here and I don't know if Shiv has a capacity for love. I think it could go either way -- anyone can choose at any time to be a better person. Becoming a parent can change you. She could also just be a cold and distant mom like her own mother.

But my bigger point is that she didn't give up anything real in voting for the deal. It's not like she was going to have ANY power with Kendall at the helm. What does she have from him? A promise of some kind of role. Kendall is a drug addict who has abandoned his own children, who walked away from a dead waiter because it was easier than dealing with the consequences, who regularly plots against his family to amass more power for himself. Would YOU trust him?

She wasn't going to get anything either way. I think she genuinely just realized that Kendall would be a mess as CEO and while she hates Tom and he and Matsson screwed her over, probably the company would be better served by their leadership. I think it was a rational choice.

Well, you aren’t watching the same show as the rest of us. Perhaps Ken would be a horrible CEO, but that wasn’t why Shiv wouldn’t vote for him. If she couldn’t have the position, she was going to make sure her sibling with whom she had competed her entire life wouldn’t have it either. Nothing more. The only meaningful relationship any of the three younger siblings had was with one another, and she destroyed that. It’s suppose to be a tragedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

It’s mere proximity to power either way, folks.

Shiv had no role in Waystar beyond board member (and she’s still a board member, though not sure how that works with the acquisition).

Roman and Kendall boxed her out at CEO. Matsson dangled it and pulled it away. Sell, don’t sell, either way Shiv has no real power and is simply being promised things by men who have no history of ever coming through for her (sound familiar?).

There is no “win” for Shiv. I think she voted for the deal because it offers some closure. It’s over. She can stop pretending she and her sibs are going to run things together (they weren’t, it would be all Kendall, and she was right he’d be awful). The sale means it’s done.

I don’t know what to make of the Tom of it all. I don’t think she’s choosing him at all, much less choosing him so she can stay in proximity to power (she knows he’s an empty suit). I think she’ll probably wind up living on her own and doing her own thing whether they stay married or not.

Worst case, she’s her mom (rich, idle, annoying, bad mom). Best case, she starts her own comms company (she’s actually good at it, and very well connected in that world), makes an effort to be a better mom than hers was, and actually builds a little something for herself outside the world of Waystar and her family.

You really don’t see Shiv as the writers did, she lacks the capacity for love.

PP here and I don't know if Shiv has a capacity for love. I think it could go either way -- anyone can choose at any time to be a better person. Becoming a parent can change you. She could also just be a cold and distant mom like her own mother.

But my bigger point is that she didn't give up anything real in voting for the deal. It's not like she was going to have ANY power with Kendall at the helm. What does she have from him? A promise of some kind of role. Kendall is a drug addict who has abandoned his own children, who walked away from a dead waiter because it was easier than dealing with the consequences, who regularly plots against his family to amass more power for himself. Would YOU trust him?

She wasn't going to get anything either way. I think she genuinely just realized that Kendall would be a mess as CEO and while she hates Tom and he and Matsson screwed her over, probably the company would be better served by their leadership. I think it was a rational choice.

Well, you aren’t watching the same show as the rest of us. Perhaps Ken would be a horrible CEO, but that wasn’t why Shiv wouldn’t vote for him. If she couldn’t have the position, she was going to make sure her sibling with whom she had competed her entire life wouldn’t have it either. Nothing more. The only meaningful relationship any of the three younger siblings had was with one another, and she destroyed that. It’s suppose to be a tragedy.

You can keep reposting, sorry most don't agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with Shiv "joking" about killing Kendall. Raise your hand if you didn't think for a moment it was possible...yep. Bueller. Case closed.

Ken repeatedly and quite clearly said that he was “ a cog that only fit in one machine.” Not giving him the job quite clearly destroyed him. If the bodyguard hadn’t been with him in the end, he would have committed suicide. She joked about killing hi, amd then destroyed his soul and will to live.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if in some twisted way, Shiv thinks that voting for the deal so that Tom can become CEO might even the playing field in their marriage in a way that might make it almost functional. When their relationship started, Shiv had all the power because she had all the money, and Tom has always had to put up with abuse and disloyalty from her in order to stay in the family and maintain access to the lifestyle he wants.

But even though he's just a figurehead CEO, it's the most real power he's had in his life. He's going to get a big salary, stock options, and he'll have a ton of social power because he's now the US "face" of Waystar/GoJo. He now has real leverage in their relationship, which he's never had before. Shiv still has her billions (more than before thanks to the sale) and all the trappings of being a 1%er -- she knows all the right people and can get access to all the right places. In theory, at least, this move could allow them to operate as something akin to equals. They already have a weird power dynamic where they are both somewhat abusive of the other, maybe maintaining the tension of them both having leverage will help make that work.

Not saying Shiv's a romantic here -- I think she ultimately made a practical choice both for the company and herself. But the shot of her and Tom in the car makes me wonder if she's choosing that dynamic on purpose. Unlike her mom, she comes to the table with a lot of power, so it's not like she's signing up to be the little woman here. She can walk away any time and she doesn't need to ask Tom for anything. She's better off in a divorce now than before the GoJo deal because now she won't have to pay Tom support of any kind, he'll be too rich to justify it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think Shiv changed her vote because she knew Ken couldn’t do it; she chose to be closest to power, and that is staying with Tom.

Maybe a mix of both, but I think she was sincere in saying Ken couldn't do it. And why would she need to stay close to power? The Gojo deal made her far richer than Tom the frontman will ever be.

Because they all know - plainly stated in the season 1 finale - that anyone can be super rich; they need the company to have power.

Sure, but what does mere proximity to power get her?

It’s mere proximity to power either way, folks.

Shiv had no role in Waystar beyond board member (and she’s still a board member, though not sure how that works with the acquisition).

Roman and Kendall boxed her out at CEO. Matsson dangled it and pulled it away. Sell, don’t sell, either way Shiv has no real power and is simply being promised things by men who have no history of ever coming through for her (sound familiar?).

There is no “win” for Shiv. I think she voted for the deal because it offers some closure. It’s over. She can stop pretending she and her sibs are going to run things together (they weren’t, it would be all Kendall, and she was right he’d be awful). The sale means it’s done.

I don’t know what to make of the Tom of it all. I don’t think she’s choosing him at all, much less choosing him so she can stay in proximity to power (she knows he’s an empty suit). I think she’ll probably wind up living on her own and doing her own thing whether they stay married or not.

Worst case, she’s her mom (rich, idle, annoying, bad mom). Best case, she starts her own comms company (she’s actually good at it, and very well connected in that world), makes an effort to be a better mom than hers was, and actually builds a little something for herself outside the world of Waystar and her family.

You really don’t see Shiv as the writers did, she lacks the capacity for love.

PP here and I don't know if Shiv has a capacity for love. I think it could go either way -- anyone can choose at any time to be a better person. Becoming a parent can change you. She could also just be a cold and distant mom like her own mother.

But my bigger point is that she didn't give up anything real in voting for the deal. It's not like she was going to have ANY power with Kendall at the helm. What does she have from him? A promise of some kind of role. Kendall is a drug addict who has abandoned his own children, who walked away from a dead waiter because it was easier than dealing with the consequences, who regularly plots against his family to amass more power for himself. Would YOU trust him?

She wasn't going to get anything either way. I think she genuinely just realized that Kendall would be a mess as CEO and while she hates Tom and he and Matsson screwed her over, probably the company would be better served by their leadership. I think it was a rational choice.

Well, you aren’t watching the same show as the rest of us. Perhaps Ken would be a horrible CEO, but that wasn’t why Shiv wouldn’t vote for him. If she couldn’t have the position, she was going to make sure her sibling with whom she had competed her entire life wouldn’t have it either. Nothing more. The only meaningful relationship any of the three younger siblings had was with one another, and she destroyed that. It’s suppose to be a tragedy.

You can keep reposting, sorry most don't agree with you.

There are multiple people on this thread saying this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if in some twisted way, Shiv thinks that voting for the deal so that Tom can become CEO might even the playing field in their marriage in a way that might make it almost functional. When their relationship started, Shiv had all the power because she had all the money, and Tom has always had to put up with abuse and disloyalty from her in order to stay in the family and maintain access to the lifestyle he wants.

But even though he's just a figurehead CEO, it's the most real power he's had in his life. He's going to get a big salary, stock options, and he'll have a ton of social power because he's now the US "face" of Waystar/GoJo. He now has real leverage in their relationship, which he's never had before. Shiv still has her billions (more than before thanks to the sale) and all the trappings of being a 1%er -- she knows all the right people and can get access to all the right places. In theory, at least, this move could allow them to operate as something akin to equals. They already have a weird power dynamic where they are both somewhat abusive of the other, maybe maintaining the tension of them both having leverage will help make that work.

Not saying Shiv's a romantic here -- I think she ultimately made a practical choice both for the company and herself. But the shot of her and Tom in the car makes me wonder if she's choosing that dynamic on purpose. Unlike her mom, she comes to the table with a lot of power, so it's not like she's signing up to be the little woman here. She can walk away any time and she doesn't need to ask Tom for anything. She's better off in a divorce now than before the GoJo deal because now she won't have to pay Tom support of any kind, he'll be too rich to justify it.

Tom hates her and initially rejected her attempt at reconciliation earlier in the episode. He’s only with her in exchange for her vote.

[Anonymous]

My thoughts on all the characters at the end of this —

Kendall: I think he was the most truthful when he started yelling about being the eldest boy. Based on the story of Logan promising him the company at age 7, I think he has truly viewed this as an absolute birth right his whole life. It was never a battle of who should be CEO for him, but always defending what was already his.

Roman: Deep down he’s the most family oriented in his own messed up way. It’s why he was talking to Logan even with the others weren’t. It’s why he went to his mom’s in Barbados. He wanted power for himself in theory, but could also easily be swayed trying to keep some semblance of family peace. I think in a perverse way even Gerri was a mother figure to him, which is why he couldn’t be around her at the end.

Shiv: it’s been said a ton but she was always out for herself and I think the inherent sexism in her industry made her scrappier. However, I actually think Tom getting the CEO position may be the only thing that could save their marriage. He is now actually closer to her equal and she knows deep down he was right when he told her she would have done it to him. Even the day before she had been telling Matsson she could take or leave Tom still having a job and that he would suck d!ck to stay there. I don’t think she had much respect for him.

Tom: I get why he took the CEO position. A couple seasons ago he never would have done that to her, let alone while she was carrying his child. But even her attempt at reconciliation brought up scheduling and whatnot. I think their (sort of) holding hands was an olive branch at the end. She wasn’t ready to 100% jump into a normal relationship, but she got in the car with him and put her hand out too. Maybe with distance from her family and a more even power dynamic these two can make it work.

Greg: proved himself to be the weasel we all knew. I’m not going to lie, at first I thought his translation app was brilliant. People underestimate him. If the siblings had pulled off taking over the company then it would have been a brilliant bet on the right horse. I also think he really wanted to be in on the “quad.” As a side note, I love when Tom put the sticker on him. I think deep down Tom knows he and Greg are cut from the same cloth, Tom just maneuvered better.

Connor: oh how I loved his silly system for dividing up his father’s belongings. And the siblings’ mockery with acronyms was perfect. Willa looked horrified that they may not live separate lives after all, but I’m still sort of rooting for them.

I kinda wish there had been 10 more minutes to the episode to do a flash forward, but I guess it’s fun to leave things open to interpretation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with Shiv "joking" about killing Kendall. Raise your hand if you didn't think for a moment it was possible...yep. Bueller. Case closed.

Ken repeatedly and quite clearly said that he was “ a cog that only fit in one machine.” Not giving him the job quite clearly destroyed him. If the bodyguard hadn’t been with him in the end, he would have committed suicide. She joked about killing hi, amd then destroyed his soul and will to live.

Apparently they toyed with a scene of him climbing over the wall at the end. Glad they didn't do anything that literal. He was a hollow man who consistently made terrible decisions, and would simply deny that was the case whenever expedient. The writers were very deliberate in bringing up the waiter's death again this late in the game. They made it crystal clear he was not worthy of the big seat, and never was. Jeremy Strong was brilliant in making the character as dimensional and ambivalent as possible, but he was still a horrible horrible human being. Immature, self-centered, and grasping at every turn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if in some twisted way, Shiv thinks that voting for the deal so that Tom can become CEO might even the playing field in their marriage in a way that might make it almost functional. When their relationship started, Shiv had all the power because she had all the money, and Tom has always had to put up with abuse and disloyalty from her in order to stay in the family and maintain access to the lifestyle he wants.

But even though he's just a figurehead CEO, it's the most real power he's had in his life. He's going to get a big salary, stock options, and he'll have a ton of social power because he's now the US "face" of Waystar/GoJo. He now has real leverage in their relationship, which he's never had before. Shiv still has her billions (more than before thanks to the sale) and all the trappings of being a 1%er -- she knows all the right people and can get access to all the right places. In theory, at least, this move could allow them to operate as something akin to equals. They already have a weird power dynamic where they are both somewhat abusive of the other, maybe maintaining the tension of them both having leverage will help make that work.

Not saying Shiv's a romantic here -- I think she ultimately made a practical choice both for the company and herself. But the shot of her and Tom in the car makes me wonder if she's choosing that dynamic on purpose. Unlike her mom, she comes to the table with a lot of power, so it's not like she's signing up to be the little woman here. She can walk away any time and she doesn't need to ask Tom for anything. She's better off in a divorce now than before the GoJo deal because now she won't have to pay Tom support of any kind, he'll be too rich to justify it.

Interesting perspective. It did seem she was more interested in trying to salvage the relationship once she became pregnant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if in some twisted way, Shiv thinks that voting for the deal so that Tom can become CEO might even the playing field in their marriage in a way that might make it almost functional. When their relationship started, Shiv had all the power because she had all the money, and Tom has always had to put up with abuse and disloyalty from her in order to stay in the family and maintain access to the lifestyle he wants.

But even though he's just a figurehead CEO, it's the most real power he's had in his life. He's going to get a big salary, stock options, and he'll have a ton of social power because he's now the US "face" of Waystar/GoJo. He now has real leverage in their relationship, which he's never had before. Shiv still has her billions (more than before thanks to the sale) and all the trappings of being a 1%er -- she knows all the right people and can get access to all the right places. In theory, at least, this move could allow them to operate as something akin to equals. They already have a weird power dynamic where they are both somewhat abusive of the other, maybe maintaining the tension of them both having leverage will help make that work.

Not saying Shiv's a romantic here -- I think she ultimately made a practical choice both for the company and herself. But the shot of her and Tom in the car makes me wonder if she's choosing that dynamic on purpose. Unlike her mom, she comes to the table with a lot of power, so it's not like she's signing up to be the little woman here. She can walk away any time and she doesn't need to ask Tom for anything. She's better off in a divorce now than before the GoJo deal because now she won't have to pay Tom support of any kind, he'll be too rich to justify it.

Tom hates her and initially rejected her attempt at reconciliation earlier in the episode. He’s only with her in exchange for her vote.

DP but he already had her vote by the time he told her about the car waiting and held out his hand. He was the one to proffer some reconciliation once he was CEO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My thoughts on all the characters at the end of this —

Kendall: I think he was the most truthful when he started yelling about being the eldest boy. Based on the story of Logan promising him the company at age 7, I think he has truly viewed this as an absolute birth right his whole life. It was never a battle of who should be CEO for him, but always defending what was already his.

Roman: Deep down he’s the most family oriented in his own messed up way. It’s why he was talking to Logan even with the others weren’t. It’s why he went to his mom’s in Barbados. He wanted power for himself in theory, but could also easily be swayed trying to keep some semblance of family peace. I think in a perverse way even Gerri was a mother figure to him, which is why he couldn’t be around her at the end.

Shiv: it’s been said a ton but she was always out for herself and I think the inherent sexism in her industry made her scrappier. However, I actually think Tom getting the CEO position may be the only thing that could save their marriage. He is now actually closer to her equal and she knows deep down he was right when he told her she would have done it to him. Even the day before she had been telling Matsson she could take or leave Tom still having a job and that he would suck d!ck to stay there. I don’t think she had much respect for him.

Tom: I get why he took the CEO position. A couple seasons ago he never would have done that to her, let alone while she was carrying his child. But even her attempt at reconciliation brought up scheduling and whatnot. I think their (sort of) holding hands was an olive branch at the end. She wasn’t ready to 100% jump into a normal relationship, but she got in the car with him and put her hand out too. Maybe with distance from her family and a more even power dynamic these two can make it work.

Greg: proved himself to be the weasel we all knew. I’m not going to lie, at first I thought his translation app was brilliant. People underestimate him. If the siblings had pulled off taking over the company then it would have been a brilliant bet on the right horse. I also think he really wanted to be in on the “quad.” As a side note, I love when Tom put the sticker on him. I think deep down Tom knows he and Greg are cut from the same cloth, Tom just maneuvered better.

Connor: oh how I loved his silly system for dividing up his father’s belongings. And the siblings’ mockery with acronyms was perfect. Willa looked horrified that they may not live separate lives after all, but I’m still sort of rooting for them.

I kinda wish there had been 10 more minutes to the episode to do a flash forward, but I guess it’s fun to leave things open to interpretation.

OMG Willa's prospect of living alone in the $60m Manhattan mansion decorated to her taste. So close, lol!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if in some twisted way, Shiv thinks that voting for the deal so that Tom can become CEO might even the playing field in their marriage in a way that might make it almost functional. When their relationship started, Shiv had all the power because she had all the money, and Tom has always had to put up with abuse and disloyalty from her in order to stay in the family and maintain access to the lifestyle he wants.

But even though he's just a figurehead CEO, it's the most real power he's had in his life. He's going to get a big salary, stock options, and he'll have a ton of social power because he's now the US "face" of Waystar/GoJo. He now has real leverage in their relationship, which he's never had before. Shiv still has her billions (more than before thanks to the sale) and all the trappings of being a 1%er -- she knows all the right people and can get access to all the right places. In theory, at least, this move could allow them to operate as something akin to equals. They already have a weird power dynamic where they are both somewhat abusive of the other, maybe maintaining the tension of them both having leverage will help make that work.

Not saying Shiv's a romantic here -- I think she ultimately made a practical choice both for the company and herself. But the shot of her and Tom in the car makes me wonder if she's choosing that dynamic on purpose. Unlike her mom, she comes to the table with a lot of power, so it's not like she's signing up to be the little woman here. She can walk away any time and she doesn't need to ask Tom for anything. She's better off in a divorce now than before the GoJo deal because now she won't have to pay Tom support of any kind, he'll be too rich to justify it.

Tom hates her and initially rejected her attempt at reconciliation earlier in the episode. He’s only with her in exchange for her vote.

DP but he already had her vote by the time he told her about the car waiting and held out his hand. He was the one to proffer some reconciliation once he was CEO.

I agree with PPs that both sides now see the possibility of salvaging the relationship with more equal power balance on both sides. He was always more committed to having children. Noone would ever envision a smooth path for these two, but at least there is a viable possibility. Her reluctance to fully take his hand brilliantly conveyed her ambivalence about all of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with Shiv "joking" about killing Kendall. Raise your hand if you didn't think for a moment it was possible...yep. Bueller. Case closed.

Ken repeatedly and quite clearly said that he was “ a cog that only fit in one machine.” Not giving him the job quite clearly destroyed him. If the bodyguard hadn’t been with him in the end, he would have committed suicide. She joked about killing hi, amd then destroyed his soul and will to live.

Blaming that on Shiv is ridiculous. If Kendall kills himself because he can't be CEO of Waystar, that's not Shiv's fault for voting against him. If a person needs you to MAKE HIM CEO OF A GLOBAL COMPANY in order to have the will to live, then their problems are 100% their own and you are not obligated to just give it to them. Come on.

(not even a defense of Shiv, who is terrible in her own way, but just the idea of blaming her for Kendall's mental state at the end of the series is weird scapegoating -- he never did anything for Shiv and she didn't owe him that vote)