College Football--Big Ten Expansion

[Anonymous]

The 2023 college football season is going to be weird. None of these conferences moves have taken effect yet, so it’s like a couple who have gotten divorced but still live together. Will be interesting to see if the animosity shows up on the field when UCLA plays Cal, or Washington plays Wash State.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I can’t believe is that there are now 3 new pages on the Big10. Today is ACC depart day. People have been predicting the departure. Where are they to say we were wrong. Or say they will leave next year which is simply not true. Where are the people who say it was just money and the GOR can just be broken. Where are the people who said the SEC or the Big10 even wanted FSU because the press now indicates that neither conference wants them.

People have been talking stupid here all week and now they just move on to Big10?

There is zero chance FSU and others stay in the ACC until 2036. The ACC benefits 6-7 schools willing to take a check but not invest in athletics. Just because FSU and others did not announce today does not mean that they are not working towards that goal or that the GOR cannot be broken. It is not a matter of what the BIG or SEC wants. It is what the tv companies want. They don't want to pay for free riders schools whether they have good academics. See Cal and Stanford.

Zero chance? They may leave early but likely just a couple of years out from the end of the GOR where the cost would not be awful. There is no other way to look at this year and the statements made other than to say if they felt they could have left for a manageable amount of pain they would have. We can fight all day about the GOR but when you add whatever it would take plus the exit fee, the pain was too high. Pain gets less but maybe still too high until closer to 2036.

But the rest of the ACC will extract something from them for their comments and the no vote. Life will not be great. Word is that even Clemson is sick of them.

It would not shock me if something were to happen to cause everyone including FSU to extend the GOR.

I suppose there is small chance they get ND to join and save the conference. Zero chance they stay if ACC remains in current form. They will have to make a move at some point. Probably before 26 when tv contracts of BIG and SEC really kick in. The alternative is stay and die a slow death. Projections are that the ACC will make a little over 50 million by 2027 whereas the SEC will be a little under 100 million, BIG a little under 90 million. It is untenable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Part of me thinks that this is just punishment for two universities that display intolerance for different opinions with an attitude of superiority,”

Bingo. I have a nephew who graduated from Berkeley a few years ago. He & his idiot father (my brother) were proud that the kid was involved in protests that blocked freeways, & also started fires to keep invited speakers from speaking. Many folks at these 2 colleges think such actions prove they are openminded, and they are too self-absorbed to realize the irony in that belief.

I am hoping a book comes out explaining what really happened to the PAC. There a number of rumors out there that PAC was offered 30 million by ESPN and countered with 50 million. ESPN said goodbye. There is another that ESPN suggested merging or at least partnering with the BIG 12 or ACC but schools like CAL indicated they would not be associated with schools like Texas Tech or FSU. It sounds like a lot of the damage was self-inflicted. I will be rooting for Oregon St and Wash St this fall as it sounds like they were willing to at least listen yet are on the outside looking in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Part of me thinks that this is just punishment for two universities that display intolerance for different opinions with an attitude of superiority,”

Bingo. I have a nephew who graduated from Berkeley a few years ago. He & his idiot father (my brother) were proud that the kid was involved in protests that blocked freeways, & also started fires to keep invited speakers from speaking. Many folks at these 2 colleges think such actions prove they are openminded, and they are too self-absorbed to realize the irony in that belief.

I am hoping a book comes out explaining what really happened to the PAC. There a number of rumors out there that PAC was offered 30 million by ESPN and countered with 50 million. ESPN said goodbye. There is another that ESPN suggested merging or at least partnering with the BIG 12 or ACC but schools like CAL indicated they would not be associated with schools like Texas Tech or FSU. It sounds like a lot of the damage was self-inflicted. I will be rooting for Oregon St and Wash St this fall as it sounds like they were willing to at least listen yet are on the outside looking in.

Do you have a link to article reporting the merger suggestion ?

This is typical of articles that I have read:

https://si.com/college/2023/08/11/pac-12-espn-media-rights-negotiations-50-million-ask-per-report

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Part of me thinks that this is just punishment for two universities that display intolerance for different opinions with an attitude of superiority,”

Bingo. I have a nephew who graduated from Berkeley a few years ago. He & his idiot father (my brother) were proud that the kid was involved in protests that blocked freeways, & also started fires to keep invited speakers from speaking. Many folks at these 2 colleges think such actions prove they are openminded, and they are too self-absorbed to realize the irony in that belief.

I am hoping a book comes out explaining what really happened to the PAC. There a number of rumors out there that PAC was offered 30 million by ESPN and countered with 50 million. ESPN said goodbye. There is another that ESPN suggested merging or at least partnering with the BIG 12 or ACC but schools like CAL indicated they would not be associated with schools like Texas Tech or FSU. It sounds like a lot of the damage was self-inflicted. I will be rooting for Oregon St and Wash St this fall as it sounds like they were willing to at least listen yet are on the outside looking in.

That was the good old days. It wasn't long ago, but it was an eternity in the media landscape. Now that Iger is back, Disney is desperate to eak every dime out of ESPN which means rights deals have to justify themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I can’t believe is that there are now 3 new pages on the Big10. Today is ACC depart day. People have been predicting the departure. Where are they to say we were wrong. Or say they will leave next year which is simply not true. Where are the people who say it was just money and the GOR can just be broken. Where are the people who said the SEC or the Big10 even wanted FSU because the press now indicates that neither conference wants them.

People have been talking stupid here all week and now they just move on to Big10?

There is zero chance FSU and others stay in the ACC until 2036. The ACC benefits 6-7 schools willing to take a check but not invest in athletics. Just because FSU and others did not announce today does not mean that they are not working towards that goal or that the GOR cannot be broken. It is not a matter of what the BIG or SEC wants. It is what the tv companies want. They don't want to pay for free riders schools whether they have good academics. See Cal and Stanford.

Zero chance? They may leave early but likely just a couple of years out from the end of the GOR where the cost would not be awful. There is no other way to look at this year and the statements made other than to say if they felt they could have left for a manageable amount of pain they would have. We can fight all day about the GOR but when you add whatever it would take plus the exit fee, the pain was too high. Pain gets less but maybe still too high until closer to 2036.

But the rest of the ACC will extract something from them for their comments and the no vote. Life will not be great. Word is that even Clemson is sick of them.

It would not shock me if something were to happen to cause everyone including FSU to extend the GOR.

I suppose there is small chance they get ND to join and save the conference. Zero chance they stay if ACC remains in current form. They will have to make a move at some point. Probably before 26 when tv contracts of BIG and SEC really kick in. The alternative is stay and die a slow death. Projections are that the ACC will make a little over 50 million by 2027 whereas the SEC will be a little under 100 million, BIG a little under 90 million. It is untenable.

It will be still too expensive to get out in 2026. Maybe 2032. Maybe not. Slow death is likely with no way out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I can’t believe is that there are now 3 new pages on the Big10. Today is ACC depart day. People have been predicting the departure. Where are they to say we were wrong. Or say they will leave next year which is simply not true. Where are the people who say it was just money and the GOR can just be broken. Where are the people who said the SEC or the Big10 even wanted FSU because the press now indicates that neither conference wants them.

People have been talking stupid here all week and now they just move on to Big10?

There is zero chance FSU and others stay in the ACC until 2036. The ACC benefits 6-7 schools willing to take a check but not invest in athletics. Just because FSU and others did not announce today does not mean that they are not working towards that goal or that the GOR cannot be broken. It is not a matter of what the BIG or SEC wants. It is what the tv companies want. They don't want to pay for free riders schools whether they have good academics. See Cal and Stanford.

Zero chance? They may leave early but likely just a couple of years out from the end of the GOR where the cost would not be awful. There is no other way to look at this year and the statements made other than to say if they felt they could have left for a manageable amount of pain they would have. We can fight all day about the GOR but when you add whatever it would take plus the exit fee, the pain was too high. Pain gets less but maybe still too high until closer to 2036.

But the rest of the ACC will extract something from them for their comments and the no vote. Life will not be great. Word is that even Clemson is sick of them.

It would not shock me if something were to happen to cause everyone including FSU to extend the GOR.

I suppose there is small chance they get ND to join and save the conference. Zero chance they stay if ACC remains in current form. They will have to make a move at some point. Probably before 26 when tv contracts of BIG and SEC really kick in. The alternative is stay and die a slow death. Projections are that the ACC will make a little over 50 million by 2027 whereas the SEC will be a little under 100 million, BIG a little under 90 million. It is untenable.

It will be still too expensive to get out in 2026. Maybe 2032. Maybe not. Slow death is likely with no way out.

This is the fear.

[Anonymous]

The below linked article is at least one month old, but worth reading as Notre Dame and NBC have not come to agreement on a new contract yet.

https://sportskeeda.com/college-football/will-big-ten-media-rights-deal-end-notre-dame-s-nbc-deal-long-standing-partnership-peacock-network-irish-football-jeopardy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I can’t believe is that there are now 3 new pages on the Big10. Today is ACC depart day. People have been predicting the departure. Where are they to say we were wrong. Or say they will leave next year which is simply not true. Where are the people who say it was just money and the GOR can just be broken. Where are the people who said the SEC or the Big10 even wanted FSU because the press now indicates that neither conference wants them.

People have been talking stupid here all week and now they just move on to Big10?

There is zero chance FSU and others stay in the ACC until 2036. The ACC benefits 6-7 schools willing to take a check but not invest in athletics. Just because FSU and others did not announce today does not mean that they are not working towards that goal or that the GOR cannot be broken. It is not a matter of what the BIG or SEC wants. It is what the tv companies want. They don't want to pay for free riders schools whether they have good academics. See Cal and Stanford.

Zero chance? They may leave early but likely just a couple of years out from the end of the GOR where the cost would not be awful. There is no other way to look at this year and the statements made other than to say if they felt they could have left for a manageable amount of pain they would have. We can fight all day about the GOR but when you add whatever it would take plus the exit fee, the pain was too high. Pain gets less but maybe still too high until closer to 2036.

But the rest of the ACC will extract something from them for their comments and the no vote. Life will not be great. Word is that even Clemson is sick of them.

It would not shock me if something were to happen to cause everyone including FSU to extend the GOR.

I suppose there is small chance they get ND to join and save the conference. Zero chance they stay if ACC remains in current form. They will have to make a move at some point. Probably before 26 when tv contracts of BIG and SEC really kick in. The alternative is stay and die a slow death. Projections are that the ACC will make a little over 50 million by 2027 whereas the SEC will be a little under 100 million, BIG a little under 90 million. It is untenable.

It will be still too expensive to get out in 2026. Maybe 2032. Maybe not. Slow death is likely with no way out.

This is the fear.

It is driven by fear. They will be irrelevant by 2032 if they wait that long. Their only way out is to take a swing, create chaos, hope for settlement or complete collapse of conference.

[Anonymous]

“CAL indicated they would not be associated with schools like Texas Tech or FSU”

I don’t think this is a slam against these schools’ academics. It’s probably more about the herd of comfort animals the Cal fans would need after being triggered by the tomahawk chop and the “guns up” gesture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Part of me thinks that this is just punishment for two universities that display intolerance for different opinions with an attitude of superiority,”

Bingo. I have a nephew who graduated from Berkeley a few years ago. He & his idiot father (my brother) were proud that the kid was involved in protests that blocked freeways, & also started fires to keep invited speakers from speaking. Many folks at these 2 colleges think such actions prove they are openminded, and they are too self-absorbed to realize the irony in that belief.

I am hoping a book comes out explaining what really happened to the PAC. There a number of rumors out there that PAC was offered 30 million by ESPN and countered with 50 million. ESPN said goodbye. There is another that ESPN suggested merging or at least partnering with the BIG 12 or ACC but schools like CAL indicated they would not be associated with schools like Texas Tech or FSU. It sounds like a lot of the damage was self-inflicted. I will be rooting for Oregon St and Wash St this fall as it sounds like they were willing to at least listen yet are on the outside looking in.

There is a great write-up in the LA Times today that goes behind the scenes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I can’t believe is that there are now 3 new pages on the Big10. Today is ACC depart day. People have been predicting the departure. Where are they to say we were wrong. Or say they will leave next year which is simply not true. Where are the people who say it was just money and the GOR can just be broken. Where are the people who said the SEC or the Big10 even wanted FSU because the press now indicates that neither conference wants them.

People have been talking stupid here all week and now they just move on to Big10?

There is zero chance FSU and others stay in the ACC until 2036. The ACC benefits 6-7 schools willing to take a check but not invest in athletics. Just because FSU and others did not announce today does not mean that they are not working towards that goal or that the GOR cannot be broken. It is not a matter of what the BIG or SEC wants. It is what the tv companies want. They don't want to pay for free riders schools whether they have good academics. See Cal and Stanford.

Zero chance? They may leave early but likely just a couple of years out from the end of the GOR where the cost would not be awful. There is no other way to look at this year and the statements made other than to say if they felt they could have left for a manageable amount of pain they would have. We can fight all day about the GOR but when you add whatever it would take plus the exit fee, the pain was too high. Pain gets less but maybe still too high until closer to 2036.

But the rest of the ACC will extract something from them for their comments and the no vote. Life will not be great. Word is that even Clemson is sick of them.

It would not shock me if something were to happen to cause everyone including FSU to extend the GOR.

I suppose there is small chance they get ND to join and save the conference. Zero chance they stay if ACC remains in current form. They will have to make a move at some point. Probably before 26 when tv contracts of BIG and SEC really kick in. The alternative is stay and die a slow death. Projections are that the ACC will make a little over 50 million by 2027 whereas the SEC will be a little under 100 million, BIG a little under 90 million. It is untenable.

It will be still too expensive to get out in 2026. Maybe 2032. Maybe not. Slow death is likely with no way out.

This is the fear.

It is driven by fear. They will be irrelevant by 2032 if they wait that long. Their only way out is to take a swing, create chaos, hope for settlement or complete collapse of conference.

I hear you but there is no way out. They can take a swing but no one will pick them up unless the litigation is over. So that means a deal. A deal will cost. What they should have done was added schools. Used the leverage of their vote to cut an even better deal for them and maybe force ND in. Not impossible that could have been achieved.

[Anonymous]

Press tonight that lots of pressure being put on all four ACC schools to change votes. All four are open to political pressure because all four are public. Clemson is the weak link of the four.

[Anonymous]

(OP here)

Press articles revealing the push to get the ACC to add Stanford & SMU:

https://sports.yahoo.com/could-george-w-bush-and-condi-rice-help-push-acc-to-expansion-heres-why-some-member-schools-are-unhappy-224245252.html

https://si.com/college/stanford/football/stanford-is-optimistic-they-can-get-the-votes-to-join-the-acc-as-soon-as-this-week

[Anonymous]

(OP again)

Seems like the ACC may be inviting more dissent and trouble if it expands by adding Stanford or Cal. Too much travel and Cal, unlike Stanford & SMU, cannot afford to accept anything less than a full share. Other ACC schools will suffer due to increased costs in terms of money, fatigue, and psychological stress. Doesn't make sense.

However, SMU for free for 5 to 7 years is a great opportunity for the ACC to break into the Texas market for little to no cost.

The Big Ten Conference needs to take a step back from the TV overlords and reconsider Stanford's candidacy for Big Ten Conference membership. Stanford is both an academic and a research powerhouse with a very vibrant, successful athletics program. Negatives are recruiting competition for Big Ten West Coast schools and modest football viewership numbers.

Stanford's negatives can be overcome as Stanford recruits nationally and football viewership numbers will rise as Stanford's football team improves under its new head coach and as viewers experience Big Ten football. The weakness is that Stanford does not draw a national viewership for football games. Will improve because only the best teams from the Pac-12 moved to the Big Ten Conference and because Big Ten games do draw national viewership.

Plus, the Big Ten Conference will benefit academically from its association with research powerhouse Stanford.

And Stanford's traditional rival is stadium packing Notre Dame which always draws viewers from coast-to-coast. Anything that brings Notre Dame closer to the Big Ten Conference is a good thing.

No Stanford is not a football fanatic school with a football fanatic fanbase as are Clemson & FSU, but Stanford is available now and comes without any legal entanglements. And Stanford is willing to join the Big Ten Conference for a small payout over the remaining 6 years of the current TV contract.

My advice to the Big Ten Conference: Don't be blinded by the TV overloads short-term vision.