APS - new CIP proposal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, PP here, I misread the map on my tiny phone screen. PPP was right about 4MR.

Actually, it's not George Mason, it's the park, as Barcroft and South Arlington Forest are zoned to both Kenmore and Wakefield. The rest of Kenmore is zoned for WL.

North of Route 50 west of Bluemont Park is Ashlawn / Kenmore / Yorktown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone watch the Virtual Community Q & A last night, discussing the CIP? Did anything interesting come out of it?

Tonight is the Joint Work Session with the County, tomorrow night is the hearing. Here is the PowerPoint for tonight:
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3TJYU4ECCC8/$file/School%20Board%20PResentation%20-%20Joint%20Work%20Session%20on%20FY2022-24%20CIP%20060721.pdf

Here is a fact sheet on the proposed plan:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Fact-Sheet-on-ACC-Proposal-in-CIP-June-7-2021v2.pdf

And here is the rationale for the CIP, where APS states the alternative to this plan is to do nothing to address middle school capacity Meanwhile, no other building projects were considered or presented. It's all option seats or nothing, apparently.
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2021-06-07-Rationale-for-the-development-of-the-Career-Center-Campus-to-be-included-in-the-FY-2022-24-CIP_DRAFT.pdf

There is still no budget. No transparency yet on how much it will cost to tear down the Montessori elementary school and give them a remodeled version of the existing CC. Budget will come right at the end, just before a vote is taken.

Middle school seats are desperately needed and APS is banking on 625 MS students selecting these option programs (Arl Tech and Montessori). The HB middle school program is a fraction of that size, and the Montessori MS program has been shrinking over the past several years because parents have expressed that their students arrive at HS unprepared.

Nice summary, PP. And yet it seems like this will pass. I don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Will kids be required to have done Montessori ES to enroll in the Montessori MS?

I've heard the same thing about parents pulling kids from the program.

I agree. It will pass.

[Anonymous]

I ask again, how are MS seats desperately needed? Didn't we JUST open a new MS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I ask again, how are MS seats desperately needed? Didn't we JUST open a new MS?

And it is currently under-capacity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I ask again, how are MS seats desperately needed? Didn't we JUST open a new MS?

Yes, but they opted to reduce the size by 300 seats after the original proposal, because then it would’ve been larger than the other MS. So now we either build option seats, or make a less wealthy MS take on the burden of an additional 300 students. Painted ourselves into a corner with this one.

So, for equity reasons, these have to be option seats. My concern is that they have chosen 1) a program that requires previous experience (Montessori, you bet their PAC won’t want the “integrity” of the program diluted by allowing kids without ES Montessori experience to be admitted) and hasn’t demonstrated growth or a desire that isn’t being met currently and 2) a program that has only existed as a HS to date. To me, the latter is less objectionable than the former, in terms of actually alleviating crowding at neighborhood MS, because it will be open to any ES applicant, and I can imagine that if they had nice facilities and not just a parking lot full of trailers this program would become as attractive as HB for 6-12. I see absolutely no benefit to the system or to addressing overcrowding by expanding the MS Montessori program, nor to expanding ES Montessori nor consolidating all Pre-K Montessori seats on this site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I ask again, how are MS seats desperately needed? Didn't we JUST open a new MS?

Yes, but they opted to reduce the size by 300 seats after the original proposal, because then it would’ve been larger than the other MS. So now we either build option seats, or make a less wealthy MS take on the burden of an additional 300 students. Painted ourselves into a corner with this one.

So, for equity reasons, these have to be option seats. My concern is that they have chosen 1) a program that requires previous experience (Montessori, you bet their PAC won’t want the “integrity” of the program diluted by allowing kids without ES Montessori experience to be admitted) and hasn’t demonstrated growth or a desire that isn’t being met currently and 2) a program that has only existed as a HS to date. To me, the latter is less objectionable than the former, in terms of actually alleviating crowding at neighborhood MS, because it will be open to any ES applicant, and I can imagine that if they had nice facilities and not just a parking lot full of trailers this program would become as attractive as HB for 6-12. I see absolutely no benefit to the system or to addressing overcrowding by expanding the MS Montessori program, nor to expanding ES Montessori nor consolidating all Pre-K Montessori seats on this site.

I agree. A few random thoughts.

1) Arlington Tech definitely needs better facilities and probably can expand, including adding a middle school program. I'm concerned about the size they are proposing though. It seems much bigger than HB Woodlawn and realistically, that it would take several years to onboard kids and grow to that size. And then it will be a very large program on a very small and crowded campus. HB Woodlawn could not grow, according to its boosters, and that claim was honored by APS. This huge school all at once plan seems like a big risk.

2) Why not develop a consolidated immersion K-12 program, rather than Montessori? There is more demand, it already exists K-12, and it there is room for growth. If we go with the proposed plan, there won't be any money left over to accomplish anything for immersion. I don't have any kids in immersion, it just seems like a better focus than Montessori, which is so niche.

3) Montessori middle school in APS is not thriving. There is no basis for spending a huge amount of money to expand it. It is a tiny number of students at Gunston, so the idea that it will relieve capacity there is misleading. Truth is, Maria Montessori did not develop her educational program for secondary students. Some have tried to take her pedagogy and build it out to secondary school, but usually the programs involve running a farm or a business. The Montessori program at APS does not do a good job of following the pedagogy, even in elementary school. The program should be strengthened before it is expanded. And consolidating all the pre-K classes onto one site does not serve the community well. Right now, they can be moved around as needed to balance capacity and allow people around the county to access them more easily. How many families will want their 3-year old on a preK-12 mega-campus many miles from their house?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I ask again, how are MS seats desperately needed? Didn't we JUST open a new MS?

Yes, but they opted to reduce the size by 300 seats after the original proposal, because then it would’ve been larger than the other MS. So now we either build option seats, or make a less wealthy MS take on the burden of an additional 300 students. Painted ourselves into a corner with this one.

So, for equity reasons, these have to be option seats. My concern is that they have chosen 1) a program that requires previous experience (Montessori, you bet their PAC won’t want the “integrity” of the program diluted by allowing kids without ES Montessori experience to be admitted) and hasn’t demonstrated growth or a desire that isn’t being met currently and 2) a program that has only existed as a HS to date. To me, the latter is less objectionable than the former, in terms of actually alleviating crowding at neighborhood MS, because it will be open to any ES applicant, and I can imagine that if they had nice facilities and not just a parking lot full of trailers this program would become as attractive as HB for 6-12. I see absolutely no benefit to the system or to addressing overcrowding by expanding the MS Montessori program, nor to expanding ES Montessori nor consolidating all Pre-K Montessori seats on this site.

I agree. A few random thoughts.

1) Arlington Tech definitely needs better facilities and probably can expand, including adding a middle school program. I'm concerned about the size they are proposing though. It seems much bigger than HB Woodlawn and realistically, that it would take several years to onboard kids and grow to that size. And then it will be a very large program on a very small and crowded campus. HB Woodlawn could not grow, according to its boosters, and that claim was honored by APS. This huge school all at once plan seems like a big risk.

2) Why not develop a consolidated immersion K-12 program, rather than Montessori? There is more demand, it already exists K-12, and it there is room for growth. If we go with the proposed plan, there won't be any money left over to accomplish anything for immersion. I don't have any kids in immersion, it just seems like a better focus than Montessori, which is so niche.

3) Montessori middle school in APS is not thriving. There is no basis for spending a huge amount of money to expand it. It is a tiny number of students at Gunston, so the idea that it will relieve capacity there is misleading. Truth is, Maria Montessori did not develop her educational program for secondary students. Some have tried to take her pedagogy and build it out to secondary school, but usually the programs involve running a farm or a business. The Montessori program at APS does not do a good job of following the pedagogy, even in elementary school. The program should be strengthened before it is expanded. And consolidating all the pre-K classes onto one site does not serve the community well. Right now, they can be moved around as needed to balance capacity and allow people around the county to access them more easily. How many families will want their 3-year old on a preK-12 mega-campus many miles from their house?

I have personally clashed with the immersion people and find some of them to be deeply irritating… and I totally agree that if you’re going to build a consolidated program it should be immersion rather than Montessori. No one wants more Montessori middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I ask again, how are MS seats desperately needed? Didn't we JUST open a new MS?

Yes, but they opted to reduce the size by 300 seats after the original proposal, because then it would’ve been larger than the other MS. So now we either build option seats, or make a less wealthy MS take on the burden of an additional 300 students. Painted ourselves into a corner with this one.

So, for equity reasons, these have to be option seats. My concern is that they have chosen 1) a program that requires previous experience (Montessori, you bet their PAC won’t want the “integrity” of the program diluted by allowing kids without ES Montessori experience to be admitted) and hasn’t demonstrated growth or a desire that isn’t being met currently and 2) a program that has only existed as a HS to date. To me, the latter is less objectionable than the former, in terms of actually alleviating crowding at neighborhood MS, because it will be open to any ES applicant, and I can imagine that if they had nice facilities and not just a parking lot full of trailers this program would become as attractive as HB for 6-12. I see absolutely no benefit to the system or to addressing overcrowding by expanding the MS Montessori program, nor to expanding ES Montessori nor consolidating all Pre-K Montessori seats on this site.

This is nonsense.
What is your logic that a less wealthy MS would have to take on the burden of an additional 300 seats instead of a wealthier one?! Where does that idea even come from?
An addition could be managed at one of the wealthy middle schools just as well as at one of the others - but without the academic impacts on ELL and underprivileged students.
They can add on to Hamm to make it the 1300 seats they originally planned (and knew they needed at the time but - per usual weak "leadership" - caved to the community's crying foul)
Also, there is a significant difference between a wealthy (Hamm/Williamsburg type) middle school being 300 students larger than a poor (Kenmore/TJ type) middle school being 300 students larger.

Additional MS seats absolutely do NOT have to be option seats. APS needs to accept the most obvious answer: use the Kenmore site and create a MS/HS campus and move middle and high school immersion there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I ask again, how are MS seats desperately needed? Didn't we JUST open a new MS?

Yes, but they opted to reduce the size by 300 seats after the original proposal, because then it would’ve been larger than the other MS. So now we either build option seats, or make a less wealthy MS take on the burden of an additional 300 students. Painted ourselves into a corner with this one.

So, for equity reasons, these have to be option seats. My concern is that they have chosen 1) a program that requires previous experience (Montessori, you bet their PAC won’t want the “integrity” of the program diluted by allowing kids without ES Montessori experience to be admitted) and hasn’t demonstrated growth or a desire that isn’t being met currently and 2) a program that has only existed as a HS to date. To me, the latter is less objectionable than the former, in terms of actually alleviating crowding at neighborhood MS, because it will be open to any ES applicant, and I can imagine that if they had nice facilities and not just a parking lot full of trailers this program would become as attractive as HB for 6-12. I see absolutely no benefit to the system or to addressing overcrowding by expanding the MS Montessori program, nor to expanding ES Montessori nor consolidating all Pre-K Montessori seats on this site.

I agree. A few random thoughts.

1) Arlington Tech definitely needs better facilities and probably can expand, including adding a middle school program. I'm concerned about the size they are proposing though. It seems much bigger than HB Woodlawn and realistically, that it would take several years to onboard kids and grow to that size. And then it will be a very large program on a very small and crowded campus. HB Woodlawn could not grow, according to its boosters, and that claim was honored by APS. This huge school all at once plan seems like a big risk.

2) Why not develop a consolidated immersion K-12 program, rather than Montessori? There is more demand, it already exists K-12, and it there is room for growth. If we go with the proposed plan, there won't be any money left over to accomplish anything for immersion. I don't have any kids in immersion, it just seems like a better focus than Montessori, which is so niche.

3) Montessori middle school in APS is not thriving. There is no basis for spending a huge amount of money to expand it. It is a tiny number of students at Gunston, so the idea that it will relieve capacity there is misleading. Truth is, Maria Montessori did not develop her educational program for secondary students. Some have tried to take her pedagogy and build it out to secondary school, but usually the programs involve running a farm or a business. The Montessori program at APS does not do a good job of following the pedagogy, even in elementary school. The program should be strengthened before it is expanded. And consolidating all the pre-K classes onto one site does not serve the community well. Right now, they can be moved around as needed to balance capacity and allow people around the county to access them more easily. How many families will want their 3-year old on a preK-12 mega-campus many miles from their house?

I have personally clashed with the immersion people and find some of them to be deeply irritating… and I totally agree that if you’re going to build a consolidated program it should be immersion rather than Montessori. No one wants more Montessori middle school.

How many kids are in the montessori middle school program? I also wonder how many are there to get out of their regular middle school and not because they are really into the program? The few I have known are in this category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I ask again, how are MS seats desperately needed? Didn't we JUST open a new MS?

Yes, but they opted to reduce the size by 300 seats after the original proposal, because then it would’ve been larger than the other MS. So now we either build option seats, or make a less wealthy MS take on the burden of an additional 300 students. Painted ourselves into a corner with this one.

So, for equity reasons, these have to be option seats. My concern is that they have chosen 1) a program that requires previous experience (Montessori, you bet their PAC won’t want the “integrity” of the program diluted by allowing kids without ES Montessori experience to be admitted) and hasn’t demonstrated growth or a desire that isn’t being met currently and 2) a program that has only existed as a HS to date. To me, the latter is less objectionable than the former, in terms of actually alleviating crowding at neighborhood MS, because it will be open to any ES applicant, and I can imagine that if they had nice facilities and not just a parking lot full of trailers this program would become as attractive as HB for 6-12. I see absolutely no benefit to the system or to addressing overcrowding by expanding the MS Montessori program, nor to expanding ES Montessori nor consolidating all Pre-K Montessori seats on this site.

I agree. A few random thoughts.

1) Arlington Tech definitely needs better facilities and probably can expand, including adding a middle school program. I'm concerned about the size they are proposing though. It seems much bigger than HB Woodlawn and realistically, that it would take several years to onboard kids and grow to that size. And then it will be a very large program on a very small and crowded campus. HB Woodlawn could not grow, according to its boosters, and that claim was honored by APS. This huge school all at once plan seems like a big risk.

2) Why not develop a consolidated immersion K-12 program, rather than Montessori? There is more demand, it already exists K-12, and it there is room for growth. If we go with the proposed plan, there won't be any money left over to accomplish anything for immersion. I don't have any kids in immersion, it just seems like a better focus than Montessori, which is so niche.

3) Montessori middle school in APS is not thriving. There is no basis for spending a huge amount of money to expand it. It is a tiny number of students at Gunston, so the idea that it will relieve capacity there is misleading. Truth is, Maria Montessori did not develop her educational program for secondary students. Some have tried to take her pedagogy and build it out to secondary school, but usually the programs involve running a farm or a business. The Montessori program at APS does not do a good job of following the pedagogy, even in elementary school. The program should be strengthened before it is expanded. And consolidating all the pre-K classes onto one site does not serve the community well. Right now, they can be moved around as needed to balance capacity and allow people around the county to access them more easily. How many families will want their 3-year old on a preK-12 mega-campus many miles from their house?

I have personally clashed with the immersion people and find some of them to be deeply irritating… and I totally agree that if you’re going to build a consolidated program it should be immersion rather than Montessori. No one wants more Montessori middle school.

How many kids are enrolled in MS and HS immersion now?

[Anonymous]

In 2019-20 Gunston had 273 Immersion transfers and 36 Montessori transfers from outside Gunston boundaries. Wakefield had 69 Immersion transfers from outside its boundaries. I'm not sure where to find the actual program totals, I'll look a little for those. The numbers will be a bigger than just the transfers obviously.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/2019-2020_APS-Transfer-Report-All-Parts.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In 2019-20 Gunston had 273 Immersion transfers and 36 Montessori transfers from outside Gunston boundaries. Wakefield had 69 Immersion transfers from outside its boundaries. I'm not sure where to find the actual program totals, I'll look a little for those. The numbers will be a bigger than just the transfers obviously.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/2019-2020_APS-Transfer-Report-All-Parts.pdf

Thanks! I'm all for more choice programs for secondary. Without great demand for secondary immersion/Montessori, maybe we should return to the idea of a secondary choice program for arts. Recall seeing that mentioned a few years ago. Not sure what happened to that.

I also wonder if there are any wait lists for secondary immersion and montessori?

[Anonymous]

Immersion ES doesn’t have enough native Spanish speakers at the moment and that is limiting the bilingual model. How can they expand HS and MS without those native speakers?

[Anonymous]

They're not going to expand immersion when they just slashed the entering K classes for 2021-2022.