APS - new CIP proposal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it feels like a waste of time fighting this, as APS clearly has their minds made up. However, I did email engage a few days ago so am one of the 30 that wrote in (per someone's question if anyone here wrote in or not).

I think I am going to write in, but it’s annoying that I should have to. This should never have gotten to this point. F’ing ridiculous to rewrite the entire plan to appease a very small group of Montessori parents at the expense of the entire system. It’s a terrible plan, and not only won’t it help, it will harm other schools by not addressing crowding and by using up the limited debt capacity to do it. If the Montessori pedagogy is so great and compelling, why do those families care so much about having nicer facilities?

I agree. I don't understand, given the extremely limited budget, how APS and the school board can justify tearing down functional school buildings for a project that doesn't add seats. I'm talking about Montessori, and no, I don't believe they will grow the middle school program effectively. Also, there is no budget and no real sense of the scope of renovations they are planning to adapt the existing CC for Montessori. How easy will it be to adapt that building for preschoolers? They are talking about moving all the satellite primary classrooms on site. That is a lot of 3, 4, and 5 year olds who will all need to be on the ground floor. Is that even manageable in the current building? Meanwhile, the existing Patrick Henry building is basically one story and works just fine!

[Anonymous]

The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

One other point - the CIP presentation acknowledges APS could build a 525 addition to Kenmore for $26.29 million! (Or a 548 seat addition at Gunston for 65.5 million)

Gunston is the middle school that is going to be most over capacity in the coming decade. It has a large immersion population. Why not build a new facility specifically for an immersion middle school? APS has hinted that is is going to move the Claremont immersion elementary program to Carlin Springs. If they build a 400-500 seat middle school building on the Kenmore campus, it could benefit from some of the middle school facilities at Kenmore and provide a K-8 one-campus situation for immersion. Oh, and solve the middle school capacity crisis.

Then just build out Arl Tech at the exisiting CC site for with appropriate facilities for the maximum number of high school students we can afford to accommodate there. Maybe $125-135 million for Arl Tech / CC and $65 million for Kenmore immersion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

Thank you for the update. Thank the Dogs that Montessori is off the table. It made no sense to anyone else but Monique and the Montessori lobby. An unnecessary expenditure, given that they already have a building.

Another idea is to build at the ATS site to accommodate the Key students who are still overcrowded, and build an immersion middle school, and move the middle school there too. The ATS site is huge and can likely accommodate both schools easily. It makes sense to have immersion schools mid-county. And it makes room for more neighborhood seats! Win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

Thank you for the update. Thank the Dogs that Montessori is off the table. It made no sense to anyone else but Monique and the Montessori lobby. An unnecessary expenditure, given that they already have a building.

Another idea is to build at the ATS site to accommodate the Key students who are still overcrowded, and build an immersion middle school, and move the middle school there too. The ATS site is huge and can likely accommodate both schools easily. It makes sense to have immersion schools mid-county. And it makes room for more neighborhood seats! Win.

I would support that. The current ATS building is undersized and putting the middle school program there makes a lot of sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

Thank you for the update. Thank the Dogs that Montessori is off the table. It made no sense to anyone else but Monique and the Montessori lobby. An unnecessary expenditure, given that they already have a building.

Another idea is to build at the ATS site to accommodate the Key students who are still overcrowded, and build an immersion middle school, and move the middle school there too. The ATS site is huge and can likely accommodate both schools easily. It makes sense to have immersion schools mid-county. And it makes room for more neighborhood seats! Win.

They should work toward merging the two elementary immersion schools and creating a preK-12 immersion campus. If they move Claremont to Carlin Springs, they could expand there with the middle and high school seats. Problem is, there aren't enough students in the middle and high school programs to make a stand-alone program cost-effective. They'd still have Kenmore middle to share resources/teachers with; but they'd lose the high school resources. Still, if APS and immersion families think immersion is so critical and important and valuable all the way through, then they should be making the investment in it to make it a full-sized program all the way through.

But in regards to the CC site and revised Montessori plans: THANK GOD!!!! Miracles DO happen!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

Thank you for the update. Thank the Dogs that Montessori is off the table. It made no sense to anyone else but Monique and the Montessori lobby. An unnecessary expenditure, given that they already have a building.

Another idea is to build at the ATS site to accommodate the Key students who are still overcrowded, and build an immersion middle school, and move the middle school there too. The ATS site is huge and can likely accommodate both schools easily. It makes sense to have immersion schools mid-county. And it makes room for more neighborhood seats! Win.

They should work toward merging the two elementary immersion schools and creating a preK-12 immersion campus. If they move Claremont to Carlin Springs, they could expand there with the middle and high school seats. Problem is, there aren't enough students in the middle and high school programs to make a stand-alone program cost-effective. They'd still have Kenmore middle to share resources/teachers with; but they'd lose the high school resources. Still, if APS and immersion families think immersion is so critical and important and valuable all the way through, then they should be making the investment in it to make it a full-sized program all the way through.

But in regards to the CC site and revised Montessori plans: THANK GOD!!!! Miracles DO happen!

I'm really curious if there would be a strong pull signal for a k-8 immersion program. I would be worried that you would not be able to take advanced math or something if you were in small program like that -- there are at most 5 classes per grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

Thank you for the update. Thank the Dogs that Montessori is off the table. It made no sense to anyone else but Monique and the Montessori lobby. An unnecessary expenditure, given that they already have a building.

Another idea is to build at the ATS site to accommodate the Key students who are still overcrowded, and build an immersion middle school, and move the middle school there too. The ATS site is huge and can likely accommodate both schools easily. It makes sense to have immersion schools mid-county. And it makes room for more neighborhood seats! Win.

They should work toward merging the two elementary immersion schools and creating a preK-12 immersion campus. If they move Claremont to Carlin Springs, they could expand there with the middle and high school seats. Problem is, there aren't enough students in the middle and high school programs to make a stand-alone program cost-effective. They'd still have Kenmore middle to share resources/teachers with; but they'd lose the high school resources. Still, if APS and immersion families think immersion is so critical and important and valuable all the way through, then they should be making the investment in it to make it a full-sized program all the way through.

But in regards to the CC site and revised Montessori plans: THANK GOD!!!! Miracles DO happen!

I'm really curious if there would be a strong pull signal for a k-8 immersion program. I would be worried that you would not be able to take advanced math or something if you were in small program like that -- there are at most 5 classes per grade?

That's why I think co-locating with Kenmore (as opposed to ATS) would be better. The students could benefit by being next to a full middle school and there could be some crossover in course selection. The new immersion building could be classrooms, a cafeteria/kitchen, and whatever other facilities would be over-strained if the students used the Kenmore facilities. But otherwise, the students could rely on some of the Kenmore facilities. The Kenmore estimate of 525 seats for $26 million is so cost-effective, relative to the other plans.

[Anonymous]

The new CIP presentation also links to a Design Studies document, which dates from last spring. It shows the estimated cost and layouts for a number of different elementary, middle, and high school expansion and renovation projects. I think it's really helpful to see what else we could be getting within the budget, beyond just putting all $185-200 million into the Career Center. For example, the Quincy and VHC projects look really cost effective, once we need elementary seats again.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/200427-CIP-Studies-v3.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

Thank you for the update. Thank the Dogs that Montessori is off the table. It made no sense to anyone else but Monique and the Montessori lobby. An unnecessary expenditure, given that they already have a building.

Another idea is to build at the ATS site to accommodate the Key students who are still overcrowded, and build an immersion middle school, and move the middle school there too. The ATS site is huge and can likely accommodate both schools easily. It makes sense to have immersion schools mid-county. And it makes room for more neighborhood seats! Win.

They should work toward merging the two elementary immersion schools and creating a preK-12 immersion campus. If they move Claremont to Carlin Springs, they could expand there with the middle and high school seats. Problem is, there aren't enough students in the middle and high school programs to make a stand-alone program cost-effective. They'd still have Kenmore middle to share resources/teachers with; but they'd lose the high school resources. Still, if APS and immersion families think immersion is so critical and important and valuable all the way through, then they should be making the investment in it to make it a full-sized program all the way through.

But in regards to the CC site and revised Montessori plans: THANK GOD!!!! Miracles DO happen!

I'm really curious if there would be a strong pull signal for a k-8 immersion program. I would be worried that you would not be able to take advanced math or something if you were in small program like that -- there are at most 5 classes per grade?

I think there would be a stronger interest in MS/HS immersion if the Key kids zoned to Discovery/Jamestown/Taylor/Glebe didn’t have to bus all the way across town to Gunston. It does make sense for option schools to be central.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

Thank you for the update. Thank the Dogs that Montessori is off the table. It made no sense to anyone else but Monique and the Montessori lobby. An unnecessary expenditure, given that they already have a building.

Another idea is to build at the ATS site to accommodate the Key students who are still overcrowded, and build an immersion middle school, and move the middle school there too. The ATS site is huge and can likely accommodate both schools easily. It makes sense to have immersion schools mid-county. And it makes room for more neighborhood seats! Win.

They should work toward merging the two elementary immersion schools and creating a preK-12 immersion campus. If they move Claremont to Carlin Springs, they could expand there with the middle and high school seats. Problem is, there aren't enough students in the middle and high school programs to make a stand-alone program cost-effective. They'd still have Kenmore middle to share resources/teachers with; but they'd lose the high school resources. Still, if APS and immersion families think immersion is so critical and important and valuable all the way through, then they should be making the investment in it to make it a full-sized program all the way through.

But in regards to the CC site and revised Montessori plans: THANK GOD!!!! Miracles DO happen!

I'm really curious if there would be a strong pull signal for a k-8 immersion program. I would be worried that you would not be able to take advanced math or something if you were in small program like that -- there are at most 5 classes per grade?

You make choices and sometimes you give up some things to choose others. Nevertheless, this is precisely why middle school immersion is housed within Gunston now. Sharing of teacher resources. If they consolidate it at the Kenmore site, they could still take advantage of that type of relationship and resource-sharing as they build-up its own independent program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

Thank you for the update. Thank the Dogs that Montessori is off the table. It made no sense to anyone else but Monique and the Montessori lobby. An unnecessary expenditure, given that they already have a building.

Another idea is to build at the ATS site to accommodate the Key students who are still overcrowded, and build an immersion middle school, and move the middle school there too. The ATS site is huge and can likely accommodate both schools easily. It makes sense to have immersion schools mid-county. And it makes room for more neighborhood seats! Win.

They should work toward merging the two elementary immersion schools and creating a preK-12 immersion campus. If they move Claremont to Carlin Springs, they could expand there with the middle and high school seats. Problem is, there aren't enough students in the middle and high school programs to make a stand-alone program cost-effective. They'd still have Kenmore middle to share resources/teachers with; but they'd lose the high school resources. Still, if APS and immersion families think immersion is so critical and important and valuable all the way through, then they should be making the investment in it to make it a full-sized program all the way through.

But in regards to the CC site and revised Montessori plans: THANK GOD!!!! Miracles DO happen!

I'm really curious if there would be a strong pull signal for a k-8 immersion program. I would be worried that you would not be able to take advanced math or something if you were in small program like that -- there are at most 5 classes per grade?

That's why I think co-locating with Kenmore (as opposed to ATS) would be better. The students could benefit by being next to a full middle school and there could be some crossover in course selection. The new immersion building could be classrooms, a cafeteria/kitchen, and whatever other facilities would be over-strained if the students used the Kenmore facilities. But otherwise, the students could rely on some of the Kenmore facilities. The Kenmore estimate of 525 seats for $26 million is so cost-effective, relative to the other plans.

I agree with this. It's a no-brainer. And I don't give a crap about people's pushback with the traffic complaint. Arlington will just have to start dealing with it instead of using it as an excuse. This is such a significantly more cost-effective suggestion, they just can't keep ignoring Kenmore as a solution to things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The budget estimate is up. News Flash - this project won't work at $185 million. Moving the Montessori program and tearing down the Patrick Henry building is now off the table. Thank god.

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C3YTU478FFA2/$file/CIP%20Work%20Session%204%20Presentation%206-14-2021.pdf

Notably, the cost to renovate the existing CC building for Montessori: "is the equivalent of a full-stand alone elementary school project and does not fit within the target budget." Cost estimate = $65 million for that aspect of the project alone!

Other key points:
"• Renovation of the existing ACC to support an expanded MPSA requires substantial capital investment.
• If scope associated with the MPSA program is removed from the project, the cost will be substantially closer to the budget."

But, the proposal recommends moving forward with redevelopment of the CC site using the entire $185 million budget. An actual building plan is due by October 2021.

Thank you for the update. Thank the Dogs that Montessori is off the table. It made no sense to anyone else but Monique and the Montessori lobby. An unnecessary expenditure, given that they already have a building.

Another idea is to build at the ATS site to accommodate the Key students who are still overcrowded, and build an immersion middle school, and move the middle school there too. The ATS site is huge and can likely accommodate both schools easily. It makes sense to have immersion schools mid-county. And it makes room for more neighborhood seats! Win.

They should work toward merging the two elementary immersion schools and creating a preK-12 immersion campus. If they move Claremont to Carlin Springs, they could expand there with the middle and high school seats. Problem is, there aren't enough students in the middle and high school programs to make a stand-alone program cost-effective. They'd still have Kenmore middle to share resources/teachers with; but they'd lose the high school resources. Still, if APS and immersion families think immersion is so critical and important and valuable all the way through, then they should be making the investment in it to make it a full-sized program all the way through.

But in regards to the CC site and revised Montessori plans: THANK GOD!!!! Miracles DO happen!

I'm really curious if there would be a strong pull signal for a k-8 immersion program. I would be worried that you would not be able to take advanced math or something if you were in small program like that -- there are at most 5 classes per grade?

That's why I think co-locating with Kenmore (as opposed to ATS) would be better. The students could benefit by being next to a full middle school and there could be some crossover in course selection. The new immersion building could be classrooms, a cafeteria/kitchen, and whatever other facilities would be over-strained if the students used the Kenmore facilities. But otherwise, the students could rely on some of the Kenmore facilities. The Kenmore estimate of 525 seats for $26 million is so cost-effective, relative to the other plans.

I agree with this. It's a no-brainer. And I don't give a crap about people's pushback with the traffic complaint. Arlington will just have to start dealing with it instead of using it as an excuse. This is such a significantly more cost-effective suggestion, they just can't keep ignoring Kenmore as a solution to things.

Agree. Whenever any site is proposed the neighbors always raise traffic. Traffic is a concern with any and every site. It's not a reason not to move forward with a good site.

[Anonymous]

Montessori lost their new school?!?! Will wonders never cease! Maybe things can change in Arlington! This makes my day.

[Anonymous]

APS is still willing to spend $180 mill at this site, but it has no idea what it will get for this price. This is the definition of poor planning. Shame on APS.