WaPo on the mental health crisis students are experiencing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
WaPo’s reporting on this, and anything to do with schools and childhood development, is subpar.

Take with a grain of salt.

How so? Why is it subpar?

They just meant they don't want schools open, and WaPo has heroically IMO been taking a pro-children stance on this since the beginning, with a lot of reporting on damage to kids and learning, and also a pro-science stance, with a lot of reporting on the consensus that schools are safe for kids.

Pro science is pro children... all the data shows kids should be in school.

Except not anymore. https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-schools-are-closing-again-on-concerns-they-spread-covid-19-11610805601

I’m not posting this to say schools shouldn’t open. But can we please stop with the “all the data says” nonsense? Because the data on children and Covid is rapidly changing, most especially with the new strain.

The data on Covid is changing and we should be worried about the new strains.

The data on kids and DL is not changing.

If anything, the new strains and some of this concerning data about spread in schools should be lighting a fire under us to figure out a real solution. Indefinite distant learning is not a real solution. Here are some actual solutions that would actually help us address all of our problems (both mitigating spread as much as humanly possible while also getting children what they need, particularly at the elementary level):

-- Outdoor school. Why is there not a plan in place? We need tents, we need jackets and cold weather gear, we need to change curriculums to accommodate it. We need to rework the school calendar. Why is this not even on the table? It is a obvious solution to several problems at once.

-- Open the damn windows. Same idea. Why did we sit around discussing air purifiers for months on end when we could have opened windows. And I know not all schools in DC have windows that open. Are we changing that? We should.

-- Half day school. This one is harder because it doesn't address the childcare issue for some people. But it solves a bunch of other stuff and the childcare piece could be addressed in other ways. Half day school with open windows, then outdoor aftercare, for instance. If DL has taught me anything, it's that kids really don't need to be sitting in chairs focused on learning for 8 hours a day or even close to it. But in-person instruction during those few hours would be light years more effective than staring at a screen. Light years. And not just from an academic standpoint. I honestly think that interacting with a teacher via a screen has been detrimental to my child's mental well-being.

What else? I am tired of people saying "Well, Covid so we can't do anything." No. Covid, so we need to do something else. We have tried DL. It is not a longterm solution, not for most kids. They deserve better.

Well said, all of it. Excellent examples of actual resilience.

I haven't gotten through the thread past this point, but please please please submit these comments to the city council and osse. In fact, maybe many of us should do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my kids is a mess and the school psychologist who is wonderful is also fully.booked.

You have health insurance. Get a private therapist.

NP-we have been on four waiting lists for a child therapist since August. These are for people who don't take insurance, BTW. I heard from one that she might have some appointments opening up in March.

Ditto. We're on about eight waitlists. And just to get on some of these lists I had to do a 30 minute initial intake phone call and a 10+page questionnaire, different for each provider. Then as we move up the lists, the official intake calls are about 90 minutes long and $300+. It's so much work and $$ to get care. Meanwhile, child and entire family is suffering.

No way I would have been able to jump through all those hoops without spousal support, work flexibility, and financial means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

Thank you for this. I am an American but it is disturbing to me how much I hear liberal Americans espousing a view on the pandemic that is so focused on "personal responsibility" which is the same argument conservatives use to deny welfare benefits to single mothers or refuse asylum to immigrants.

The best possible response to a pandemic is communal. I think it can be hard to remember that in the US, where we have such an individualistic culture. Combine it with all the misinformation circulating (yes, I'm talking to you, PP who keeps posting links to a bunch of headlines in tweets to make your argument instead of engaging with what people are actually saying in the thread) and it's a recipe for disaster. If we leave families to just figure all of this out on their own, we will leave behind the vast majority of families.

+1...the pandemic has highlighted exactly how alike liberals, which I am one, are to conservatives as much as they would hate to admit it. For one, if someone disagrees with any point they make- out comes the name calling and how you must be a Trump supporter or science- denying republican- or worse...who does this sound like? The same person they despise (I do as well for the record). Second, to the point about science, liberals only want to believe in the science that supports their narrative just as much as republicans. They are entrenched in their believes of school is dangerous, or if someone walks outside massless no matter how few people are around, they must not care about heir neighbors and must want to kill grandma. They refuse to look at the data objectively and it is all or nothing- someone can't have a rational solution that looks at the issues holistically without being accused of the above or tuned out. You can care about the pandemic and stopping the spread, and your neighbors, AND heaven forbid also care about the welfare of children and believe school should be in-person. Also, there have not been teachers dropping like flies who are in-person- mind you in areas with much higher infection rates and with much fewer mitigation efforts. Have some teachers died, sure, just like some children have, some of pretty much any demographic or profession you can think of but the very vast majority of those who have are elderly/have major health issues. This doesn't make it unimportant or that they don't matter- and please read that part again because those of you so entrenched in said believes will only pick apart what you want to hear from my comment versus what I actually said but the fact of the matter is schools in FL, TN, TX- have not had massive numbers of teacher deaths. Almost all the teachers in the news who have died weren't even in in-person school with students. So stop with the you must be a teacher killer if you want children to go to school. No one can say DC schools or the DC infection rates are somehow any worse than FL, TX, TN, you name almost any other state in the United States. Liberals have lost, or maybe never even ever had, the ability to look at an issue rationally and with data that goes against what they believe, take the data that supports their narrative and put it into context, and have a rationale debate about issues. There has been so much anti-science from republicans, I think the anti-science crowd in the democratic party hasn't had their chance to shine until now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

Thank you for this. I am an American but it is disturbing to me how much I hear liberal Americans espousing a view on the pandemic that is so focused on "personal responsibility" which is the same argument conservatives use to deny welfare benefits to single mothers or refuse asylum to immigrants.

The best possible response to a pandemic is communal. I think it can be hard to remember that in the US, where we have such an individualistic culture. Combine it with all the misinformation circulating (yes, I'm talking to you, PP who keeps posting links to a bunch of headlines in tweets to make your argument instead of engaging with what people are actually saying in the thread) and it's a recipe for disaster. If we leave families to just figure all of this out on their own, we will leave behind the vast majority of families.

+1...the pandemic has highlighted exactly how alike liberals, which I am one, are to conservatives as much as they would hate to admit it. For one, if someone disagrees with any point they make- out comes the name calling and how you must be a Trump supporter or science- denying republican- or worse...who does this sound like? The same person they despise (I do as well for the record). Second, to the point about science, liberals only want to believe in the science that supports their narrative just as much as republicans. They are entrenched in their believes of school is dangerous, or if someone walks outside massless no matter how few people are around, they must not care about heir neighbors and must want to kill grandma. They refuse to look at the data objectively and it is all or nothing- someone can't have a rational solution that looks at the issues holistically without being accused of the above or tuned out. You can care about the pandemic and stopping the spread, and your neighbors, AND heaven forbid also care about the welfare of children and believe school should be in-person. Also, there have not been teachers dropping like flies who are in-person- mind you in areas with much higher infection rates and with much fewer mitigation efforts. Have some teachers died, sure, just like some children have, some of pretty much any demographic or profession you can think of but the very vast majority of those who have are elderly/have major health issues. This doesn't make it unimportant or that they don't matter- and please read that part again because those of you so entrenched in said believes will only pick apart what you want to hear from my comment versus what I actually said but the fact of the matter is schools in FL, TN, TX- have not had massive numbers of teacher deaths. Almost all the teachers in the news who have died weren't even in in-person school with students. So stop with the you must be a teacher killer if you want children to go to school. No one can say DC schools or the DC infection rates are somehow any worse than FL, TX, TN, you name almost any other state in the United States. Liberals have lost, or maybe never even ever had, the ability to look at an issue rationally and with data that goes against what they believe, take the data that supports their narrative and put it into context, and have a rationale debate about issues. There has been so much anti-science from republicans, I think the anti-science crowd in the democratic party hasn't had their chance to shine until now.

It makes me so happy to read this stuff and know I’m not alone in being so incredibly frustrated with my fellow liberals.

Liberals have gone so over the top with schools, masks, vaccines, etc.. they’ve come full circle to be just as anti-science and unreasonable as the climate change deniers. I don’t get why people are ok with misinformation and fake news if it has a liberal slant. It’s like the people in DC who repeatedly misrepresent the DC mask mandate or the vaccine data (all the misinformed crap on this site about vaccines is heartbreaking). Why is that ok? How is spreading misinformation about vaccine risks any less dangerous than republicans spreading misinformation about election fraud?

I think liberals need to take a collective breath now that we have a new president and congress and start doing better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, look, Germany is keeping its schools and daycares closed until mid-February along with a whole host of other measures: https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germany-extends-covid-lockdown-until-february-14/a-56277168

Dutch schools have been closed since mid-December: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-01-dutch-parliament-coronavirus-curfew.html

Those countries did a lot right in the part of the pandemic (their death tolls reflect that!) but .... we are in a new phase of it with even more contagious strains floating around and their leaders have bowed to reality.

We have many, many friends in Europe (UK, Netherlands, France, Austria, Slovakia, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, Spain, Romania, Hungary, Germany, etc) and when you talk about school closures and somehow think that supports your narrative, you simultaneously forget that most European cities do not require children to wear mask who are under ~10-11, varies by area, most places do not require masks outdoors- some big cities are changing this but for example, London has yet to, and school was always and continues to be prioritized. European schools were back in the spring when the DMV schools called it quits for the year. They were back all fall, even when infection rates were high. Sure, some schools are closing for a very short amount of time but as a whole Europeans have a much more rationale approach and have looked at mitigation efforts that actually make sense. Having a two year old masked is neither developmentally appropriate nor does anything to control the spread, neither does passing by someone outdoors without a mask- but go ahead and continue to make yourself feel better without actually doing anything that matters. So if you want to pull data to support your narrative- please do so in totality and not cherry-pick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

Thank you for this. I am an American but it is disturbing to me how much I hear liberal Americans espousing a view on the pandemic that is so focused on "personal responsibility" which is the same argument conservatives use to deny welfare benefits to single mothers or refuse asylum to immigrants.

The best possible response to a pandemic is communal. I think it can be hard to remember that in the US, where we have such an individualistic culture. Combine it with all the misinformation circulating (yes, I'm talking to you, PP who keeps posting links to a bunch of headlines in tweets to make your argument instead of engaging with what people are actually saying in the thread) and it's a recipe for disaster. If we leave families to just figure all of this out on their own, we will leave behind the vast majority of families.

+1...the pandemic has highlighted exactly how alike liberals, which I am one, are to conservatives as much as they would hate to admit it. For one, if someone disagrees with any point they make- out comes the name calling and how you must be a Trump supporter or science- denying republican- or worse...who does this sound like? The same person they despise (I do as well for the record). Second, to the point about science, liberals only want to believe in the science that supports their narrative just as much as republicans. They are entrenched in their believes of school is dangerous, or if someone walks outside massless no matter how few people are around, they must not care about heir neighbors and must want to kill grandma. They refuse to look at the data objectively and it is all or nothing- someone can't have a rational solution that looks at the issues holistically without being accused of the above or tuned out. You can care about the pandemic and stopping the spread, and your neighbors, AND heaven forbid also care about the welfare of children and believe school should be in-person. Also, there have not been teachers dropping like flies who are in-person- mind you in areas with much higher infection rates and with much fewer mitigation efforts. Have some teachers died, sure, just like some children have, some of pretty much any demographic or profession you can think of but the very vast majority of those who have are elderly/have major health issues. This doesn't make it unimportant or that they don't matter- and please read that part again because those of you so entrenched in said believes will only pick apart what you want to hear from my comment versus what I actually said but the fact of the matter is schools in FL, TN, TX- have not had massive numbers of teacher deaths. Almost all the teachers in the news who have died weren't even in in-person school with students. So stop with the you must be a teacher killer if you want children to go to school. No one can say DC schools or the DC infection rates are somehow any worse than FL, TX, TN, you name almost any other state in the United States. Liberals have lost, or maybe never even ever had, the ability to look at an issue rationally and with data that goes against what they believe, take the data that supports their narrative and put it into context, and have a rationale debate about issues. There has been so much anti-science from republicans, I think the anti-science crowd in the democratic party hasn't had their chance to shine until now.

Yes to all the above posters and thank you. Now please please write to the mayor, council, etcetc because our voices are severely drowned out by the union!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

Thank you for this. I am an American but it is disturbing to me how much I hear liberal Americans espousing a view on the pandemic that is so focused on "personal responsibility" which is the same argument conservatives use to deny welfare benefits to single mothers or refuse asylum to immigrants.

The best possible response to a pandemic is communal. I think it can be hard to remember that in the US, where we have such an individualistic culture. Combine it with all the misinformation circulating (yes, I'm talking to you, PP who keeps posting links to a bunch of headlines in tweets to make your argument instead of engaging with what people are actually saying in the thread) and it's a recipe for disaster. If we leave families to just figure all of this out on their own, we will leave behind the vast majority of families.

+1...the pandemic has highlighted exactly how alike liberals, which I am one, are to conservatives as much as they would hate to admit it. For one, if someone disagrees with any point they make- out comes the name calling and how you must be a Trump supporter or science- denying republican- or worse...who does this sound like? The same person they despise (I do as well for the record). Second, to the point about science, liberals only want to believe in the science that supports their narrative just as much as republicans. They are entrenched in their believes of school is dangerous, or if someone walks outside massless no matter how few people are around, they must not care about heir neighbors and must want to kill grandma. They refuse to look at the data objectively and it is all or nothing- someone can't have a rational solution that looks at the issues holistically without being accused of the above or tuned out. You can care about the pandemic and stopping the spread, and your neighbors, AND heaven forbid also care about the welfare of children and believe school should be in-person. Also, there have not been teachers dropping like flies who are in-person- mind you in areas with much higher infection rates and with much fewer mitigation efforts. Have some teachers died, sure, just like some children have, some of pretty much any demographic or profession you can think of but the very vast majority of those who have are elderly/have major health issues. This doesn't make it unimportant or that they don't matter- and please read that part again because those of you so entrenched in said believes will only pick apart what you want to hear from my comment versus what I actually said but the fact of the matter is schools in FL, TN, TX- have not had massive numbers of teacher deaths. Almost all the teachers in the news who have died weren't even in in-person school with students. So stop with the you must be a teacher killer if you want children to go to school. No one can say DC schools or the DC infection rates are somehow any worse than FL, TX, TN, you name almost any other state in the United States. Liberals have lost, or maybe never even ever had, the ability to look at an issue rationally and with data that goes against what they believe, take the data that supports their narrative and put it into context, and have a rationale debate about issues. There has been so much anti-science from republicans, I think the anti-science crowd in the democratic party hasn't had their chance to shine until now.

It makes me so happy to read this stuff and know I’m not alone in being so incredibly frustrated with my fellow liberals.

Liberals have gone so over the top with schools, masks, vaccines, etc.. they’ve come full circle to be just as anti-science and unreasonable as the climate change deniers. I don’t get why people are ok with misinformation and fake news if it has a liberal slant. It’s like the people in DC who repeatedly misrepresent the DC mask mandate or the vaccine data (all the misinformed crap on this site about vaccines is heartbreaking). Why is that ok? How is spreading misinformation about vaccine risks any less dangerous than republicans spreading misinformation about election fraud?

I think liberals need to take a collective breath now that we have a new president and congress and start doing better.

You are definitely not alone- just not the loudest in the room. Just like I think "gasp" there are decent republicans but their voices get drowned out by all of the Trump supporters and extreme views. I don't think liberals, just like I don't think conservatives, see it as fake news- just something that supports their narrative and that is the problem. so many make everything so hyper-political, people can't take a step back and look at things rationally, or look at the opposing views without such vile hatred. Some things deserve this response like racism, but others, like wanting children to have an education while simultaneously needing parents to work should not.

[Anonymous]

There’s another article on this today from the NYT about how teen suicides are pushing Las Vegas to reopening schools. I’m having trouble linking it from my phone.

[Anonymous]

“ The reminders of pandemic-driven suffering among students in Clark County, Nev., have come in droves.

Since schools shut their doors in March, an early-warning system that monitors students’ mental health episodes has sent more than 3,100 alerts to district officials, raising alarms about suicidal thoughts, possible self-harm or cries for care. By December, 18 students had taken their own lives.

The spate of student suicides in and around Las Vegas has pushed the Clark County district, the nation’s fifth largest, toward bringing students back as quickly as possible. This month, the school board gave the green light to phase in the return of some elementary school grades and groups of struggling students even as greater Las Vegas continues to post huge numbers of coronavirus cases and deaths.”

I’m sure some posters here will say it was all the parents fault... All 18 of them. So sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“ The reminders of pandemic-driven suffering among students in Clark County, Nev., have come in droves.

Since schools shut their doors in March, an early-warning system that monitors students’ mental health episodes has sent more than 3,100 alerts to district officials, raising alarms about suicidal thoughts, possible self-harm or cries for care. By December, 18 students had taken their own lives.

The spate of student suicides in and around Las Vegas has pushed the Clark County district, the nation’s fifth largest, toward bringing students back as quickly as possible. This month, the school board gave the green light to phase in the return of some elementary school grades and groups of struggling students even as greater Las Vegas continues to post huge numbers of coronavirus cases and deaths.”

I’m sure some posters here will say it was all the parents fault... All 18 of them. So sad.

The DL forever trolls will say that, for sure, but fortunately Jeff quickly deletes those posts if reported. He has no patience for trolls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, look, Germany is keeping its schools and daycares closed until mid-February along with a whole host of other measures: https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germany-extends-covid-lockdown-until-february-14/a-56277168

Dutch schools have been closed since mid-December: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-01-dutch-parliament-coronavirus-curfew.html

Those countries did a lot right in the part of the pandemic (their death tolls reflect that!) but .... we are in a new phase of it with even more contagious strains floating around and their leaders have bowed to reality.

We have many, many friends in Europe (UK, Netherlands, France, Austria, Slovakia, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, Spain, Romania, Hungary, Germany, etc) and when you talk about school closures and somehow think that supports your narrative, you simultaneously forget that most European cities do not require children to wear mask who are under ~10-11, varies by area, most places do not require masks outdoors- some big cities are changing this but for example, London has yet to, and school was always and continues to be prioritized. European schools were back in the spring when the DMV schools called it quits for the year. They were back all fall, even when infection rates were high. Sure, some schools are closing for a very short amount of time but as a whole Europeans have a much more rationale approach and have looked at mitigation efforts that actually make sense. Having a two year old masked is neither developmentally appropriate nor does anything to control the spread, neither does passing by someone outdoors without a mask- but go ahead and continue to make yourself feel better without actually doing anything that matters. So if you want to pull data to support your narrative- please do so in totality and not cherry-pick.

Are you advocating that we return to school buildings without masks like Europe? Do you want Bowser to get rid of the mask mandate? That is sure what this sounds like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

Thank you for this. I am an American but it is disturbing to me how much I hear liberal Americans espousing a view on the pandemic that is so focused on "personal responsibility" which is the same argument conservatives use to deny welfare benefits to single mothers or refuse asylum to immigrants.

The best possible response to a pandemic is communal. I think it can be hard to remember that in the US, where we have such an individualistic culture. Combine it with all the misinformation circulating (yes, I'm talking to you, PP who keeps posting links to a bunch of headlines in tweets to make your argument instead of engaging with what people are actually saying in the thread) and it's a recipe for disaster. If we leave families to just figure all of this out on their own, we will leave behind the vast majority of families.

+1...the pandemic has highlighted exactly how alike liberals, which I am one, are to conservatives as much as they would hate to admit it. For one, if someone disagrees with any point they make- out comes the name calling and how you must be a Trump supporter or science- denying republican- or worse...who does this sound like? The same person they despise (I do as well for the record). Second, to the point about science, liberals only want to believe in the science that supports their narrative just as much as republicans. They are entrenched in their believes of school is dangerous, or if someone walks outside massless no matter how few people are around, they must not care about heir neighbors and must want to kill grandma. They refuse to look at the data objectively and it is all or nothing- someone can't have a rational solution that looks at the issues holistically without being accused of the above or tuned out. You can care about the pandemic and stopping the spread, and your neighbors, AND heaven forbid also care about the welfare of children and believe school should be in-person. Also, there have not been teachers dropping like flies who are in-person- mind you in areas with much higher infection rates and with much fewer mitigation efforts. Have some teachers died, sure, just like some children have, some of pretty much any demographic or profession you can think of but the very vast majority of those who have are elderly/have major health issues. This doesn't make it unimportant or that they don't matter- and please read that part again because those of you so entrenched in said believes will only pick apart what you want to hear from my comment versus what I actually said but the fact of the matter is schools in FL, TN, TX- have not had massive numbers of teacher deaths. Almost all the teachers in the news who have died weren't even in in-person school with students. So stop with the you must be a teacher killer if you want children to go to school. No one can say DC schools or the DC infection rates are somehow any worse than FL, TX, TN, you name almost any other state in the United States. Liberals have lost, or maybe never even ever had, the ability to look at an issue rationally and with data that goes against what they believe, take the data that supports their narrative and put it into context, and have a rationale debate about issues. There has been so much anti-science from republicans, I think the anti-science crowd in the democratic party hasn't had their chance to shine until now.

It makes me so happy to read this stuff and know I’m not alone in being so incredibly frustrated with my fellow liberals.

Liberals have gone so over the top with schools, masks, vaccines, etc.. they’ve come full circle to be just as anti-science and unreasonable as the climate change deniers. I don’t get why people are ok with misinformation and fake news if it has a liberal slant. It’s like the people in DC who repeatedly misrepresent the DC mask mandate or the vaccine data (all the misinformed crap on this site about vaccines is heartbreaking). Why is that ok? How is spreading misinformation about vaccine risks any less dangerous than republicans spreading misinformation about election fraud?

I think liberals need to take a collective breath now that we have a new president and congress and start doing better.

Liberal here, and I don't really see this splitting along political lines among people i know personally. I think that may be because at this point liberal/conservative are national level alliances, and people's approach to covid precautions varies so much based on their local and state context. I'm from the northeast, and schools have been open at least part of the year in the 3 states where I lived large parts of my life, and the adults I know think that's really important at the same time as they've canceled holiday plans and vacations, gotten on the phone to get elderly relatives the first possible vaccine appointments, etc. The DC area has started off from a default position of closure and that starts the argument in a different place. It's not about liberal vs conservative. It's about your local baseline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

Thank you for this. I am an American but it is disturbing to me how much I hear liberal Americans espousing a view on the pandemic that is so focused on "personal responsibility" which is the same argument conservatives use to deny welfare benefits to single mothers or refuse asylum to immigrants.

The best possible response to a pandemic is communal. I think it can be hard to remember that in the US, where we have such an individualistic culture. Combine it with all the misinformation circulating (yes, I'm talking to you, PP who keeps posting links to a bunch of headlines in tweets to make your argument instead of engaging with what people are actually saying in the thread) and it's a recipe for disaster. If we leave families to just figure all of this out on their own, we will leave behind the vast majority of families.

+1...the pandemic has highlighted exactly how alike liberals, which I am one, are to conservatives as much as they would hate to admit it. For one, if someone disagrees with any point they make- out comes the name calling and how you must be a Trump supporter or science- denying republican- or worse...who does this sound like? The same person they despise (I do as well for the record). Second, to the point about science, liberals only want to believe in the science that supports their narrative just as much as republicans. They are entrenched in their believes of school is dangerous, or if someone walks outside massless no matter how few people are around, they must not care about heir neighbors and must want to kill grandma. They refuse to look at the data objectively and it is all or nothing- someone can't have a rational solution that looks at the issues holistically without being accused of the above or tuned out. You can care about the pandemic and stopping the spread, and your neighbors, AND heaven forbid also care about the welfare of children and believe school should be in-person. Also, there have not been teachers dropping like flies who are in-person- mind you in areas with much higher infection rates and with much fewer mitigation efforts. Have some teachers died, sure, just like some children have, some of pretty much any demographic or profession you can think of but the very vast majority of those who have are elderly/have major health issues. This doesn't make it unimportant or that they don't matter- and please read that part again because those of you so entrenched in said believes will only pick apart what you want to hear from my comment versus what I actually said but the fact of the matter is schools in FL, TN, TX- have not had massive numbers of teacher deaths. Almost all the teachers in the news who have died weren't even in in-person school with students. So stop with the you must be a teacher killer if you want children to go to school. No one can say DC schools or the DC infection rates are somehow any worse than FL, TX, TN, you name almost any other state in the United States. Liberals have lost, or maybe never even ever had, the ability to look at an issue rationally and with data that goes against what they believe, take the data that supports their narrative and put it into context, and have a rationale debate about issues. There has been so much anti-science from republicans, I think the anti-science crowd in the democratic party hasn't had their chance to shine until now.

It makes me so happy to read this stuff and know I’m not alone in being so incredibly frustrated with my fellow liberals.

Liberals have gone so over the top with schools, masks, vaccines, etc.. they’ve come full circle to be just as anti-science and unreasonable as the climate change deniers. I don’t get why people are ok with misinformation and fake news if it has a liberal slant. It’s like the people in DC who repeatedly misrepresent the DC mask mandate or the vaccine data (all the misinformed crap on this site about vaccines is heartbreaking). Why is that ok? How is spreading misinformation about vaccine risks any less dangerous than republicans spreading misinformation about election fraud?

I think liberals need to take a collective breath now that we have a new president and congress and start doing better.

Liberal here, and I don't really see this splitting along political lines among people i know personally. I think that may be because at this point liberal/conservative are national level alliances, and people's approach to covid precautions varies so much based on their local and state context. I'm from the northeast, and schools have been open at least part of the year in the 3 states where I lived large parts of my life, and the adults I know think that's really important at the same time as they've canceled holiday plans and vacations, gotten on the phone to get elderly relatives the first possible vaccine appointments, etc. The DC area has started off from a default position of closure and that starts the argument in a different place. It's not about liberal vs conservative. It's about your local baseline.

You may be right about the northeast, but in the DC area, it’s made political because anyone wanting kids to be in school is immediately labeled a trump supporter (or anti-teacher, grandma killer, pick your label). Which is comical since like 90 something percent of DC voters are liberal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

Thank you for this. I am an American but it is disturbing to me how much I hear liberal Americans espousing a view on the pandemic that is so focused on "personal responsibility" which is the same argument conservatives use to deny welfare benefits to single mothers or refuse asylum to immigrants.

The best possible response to a pandemic is communal. I think it can be hard to remember that in the US, where we have such an individualistic culture. Combine it with all the misinformation circulating (yes, I'm talking to you, PP who keeps posting links to a bunch of headlines in tweets to make your argument instead of engaging with what people are actually saying in the thread) and it's a recipe for disaster. If we leave families to just figure all of this out on their own, we will leave behind the vast majority of families.

+1...the pandemic has highlighted exactly how alike liberals, which I am one, are to conservatives as much as they would hate to admit it. For one, if someone disagrees with any point they make- out comes the name calling and how you must be a Trump supporter or science- denying republican- or worse...who does this sound like? The same person they despise (I do as well for the record). Second, to the point about science, liberals only want to believe in the science that supports their narrative just as much as republicans. They are entrenched in their believes of school is dangerous, or if someone walks outside massless no matter how few people are around, they must not care about heir neighbors and must want to kill grandma. They refuse to look at the data objectively and it is all or nothing- someone can't have a rational solution that looks at the issues holistically without being accused of the above or tuned out. You can care about the pandemic and stopping the spread, and your neighbors, AND heaven forbid also care about the welfare of children and believe school should be in-person. Also, there have not been teachers dropping like flies who are in-person- mind you in areas with much higher infection rates and with much fewer mitigation efforts. Have some teachers died, sure, just like some children have, some of pretty much any demographic or profession you can think of but the very vast majority of those who have are elderly/have major health issues. This doesn't make it unimportant or that they don't matter- and please read that part again because those of you so entrenched in said believes will only pick apart what you want to hear from my comment versus what I actually said but the fact of the matter is schools in FL, TN, TX- have not had massive numbers of teacher deaths. Almost all the teachers in the news who have died weren't even in in-person school with students. So stop with the you must be a teacher killer if you want children to go to school. No one can say DC schools or the DC infection rates are somehow any worse than FL, TX, TN, you name almost any other state in the United States. Liberals have lost, or maybe never even ever had, the ability to look at an issue rationally and with data that goes against what they believe, take the data that supports their narrative and put it into context, and have a rationale debate about issues. There has been so much anti-science from republicans, I think the anti-science crowd in the democratic party hasn't had their chance to shine until now.

It makes me so happy to read this stuff and know I’m not alone in being so incredibly frustrated with my fellow liberals.

Liberals have gone so over the top with schools, masks, vaccines, etc.. they’ve come full circle to be just as anti-science and unreasonable as the climate change deniers. I don’t get why people are ok with misinformation and fake news if it has a liberal slant. It’s like the people in DC who repeatedly misrepresent the DC mask mandate or the vaccine data (all the misinformed crap on this site about vaccines is heartbreaking). Why is that ok? How is spreading misinformation about vaccine risks any less dangerous than republicans spreading misinformation about election fraud?

I think liberals need to take a collective breath now that we have a new president and congress and start doing better.

You are definitely not alone- just not the loudest in the room. Just like I think "gasp" there are decent republicans but their voices get drowned out by all of the Trump supporters and extreme views. I don't think liberals, just like I don't think conservatives, see it as fake news- just something that supports their narrative and that is the problem. so many make everything so hyper-political, people can't take a step back and look at things rationally, or look at the opposing views without such vile hatred. Some things deserve this response like racism, but others, like wanting children to have an education while simultaneously needing parents to work should not.

I agree with all these posters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

Thank you for this. I am an American but it is disturbing to me how much I hear liberal Americans espousing a view on the pandemic that is so focused on "personal responsibility" which is the same argument conservatives use to deny welfare benefits to single mothers or refuse asylum to immigrants.

The best possible response to a pandemic is communal. I think it can be hard to remember that in the US, where we have such an individualistic culture. Combine it with all the misinformation circulating (yes, I'm talking to you, PP who keeps posting links to a bunch of headlines in tweets to make your argument instead of engaging with what people are actually saying in the thread) and it's a recipe for disaster. If we leave families to just figure all of this out on their own, we will leave behind the vast majority of families.

+1...the pandemic has highlighted exactly how alike liberals, which I am one, are to conservatives as much as they would hate to admit it. For one, if someone disagrees with any point they make- out comes the name calling and how you must be a Trump supporter or science- denying republican- or worse...who does this sound like? The same person they despise (I do as well for the record). Second, to the point about science, liberals only want to believe in the science that supports their narrative just as much as republicans. They are entrenched in their believes of school is dangerous, or if someone walks outside massless no matter how few people are around, they must not care about heir neighbors and must want to kill grandma. They refuse to look at the data objectively and it is all or nothing- someone can't have a rational solution that looks at the issues holistically without being accused of the above or tuned out. You can care about the pandemic and stopping the spread, and your neighbors, AND heaven forbid also care about the welfare of children and believe school should be in-person. Also, there have not been teachers dropping like flies who are in-person- mind you in areas with much higher infection rates and with much fewer mitigation efforts. Have some teachers died, sure, just like some children have, some of pretty much any demographic or profession you can think of but the very vast majority of those who have are elderly/have major health issues. This doesn't make it unimportant or that they don't matter- and please read that part again because those of you so entrenched in said believes will only pick apart what you want to hear from my comment versus what I actually said but the fact of the matter is schools in FL, TN, TX- have not had massive numbers of teacher deaths. Almost all the teachers in the news who have died weren't even in in-person school with students. So stop with the you must be a teacher killer if you want children to go to school. No one can say DC schools or the DC infection rates are somehow any worse than FL, TX, TN, you name almost any other state in the United States. Liberals have lost, or maybe never even ever had, the ability to look at an issue rationally and with data that goes against what they believe, take the data that supports their narrative and put it into context, and have a rationale debate about issues. There has been so much anti-science from republicans, I think the anti-science crowd in the democratic party hasn't had their chance to shine until now.

It makes me so happy to read this stuff and know I’m not alone in being so incredibly frustrated with my fellow liberals.

Liberals have gone so over the top with schools, masks, vaccines, etc.. they’ve come full circle to be just as anti-science and unreasonable as the climate change deniers. I don’t get why people are ok with misinformation and fake news if it has a liberal slant. It’s like the people in DC who repeatedly misrepresent the DC mask mandate or the vaccine data (all the misinformed crap on this site about vaccines is heartbreaking). Why is that ok? How is spreading misinformation about vaccine risks any less dangerous than republicans spreading misinformation about election fraud?

I think liberals need to take a collective breath now that we have a new president and congress and start doing better.

Liberal here, and I don't really see this splitting along political lines among people i know personally. I think that may be because at this point liberal/conservative are national level alliances, and people's approach to covid precautions varies so much based on their local and state context. I'm from the northeast, and schools have been open at least part of the year in the 3 states where I lived large parts of my life, and the adults I know think that's really important at the same time as they've canceled holiday plans and vacations, gotten on the phone to get elderly relatives the first possible vaccine appointments, etc. The DC area has started off from a default position of closure and that starts the argument in a different place. It's not about liberal vs conservative. It's about your local baseline.

This is true and matches the experiences of my family in liberal areas outside of DC. However, as a DC resident, I don't think you can overstate who much the anti-school-opening crowd in DC uses politics and branding people as "ant-science" or disingenuously citing only Trump supporters as representative of people who think schools should reopen in some capacity. I follow lots of different education advocates on Twitter and have been really alarmed by the rhetoric of the most vocal WTU reps. It has really chilled my willingness to be more vocal because I am afraid that these people will just lump me in with Betsy DeVos (a person I loathe). And many of them are very politically powerful in DC and have a ton of support among certain segments of the parent population. It is a really toxic dynamic that is a huge part of why DC and surrounding areas have struggled so hard to do anything, even something as basic as providing in-person opportunities to homeless and ESL kids.