WaPo on the mental health crisis students are experiencing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education is NOT being provided. End of story.

Unless you are at a private, that just simply isn’t true. It might not be the form of education you want or how much you want, but it is being offered. Even after schools physically reopen, it still won’t look like pre-pandemic school.

Education implies both a teacher teaching and a child actually learning. Simply offering up something digitally is not in any sense the meaning of "education". We could close all public schools and just keep library opens and that would be an "education" under your definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my kids is a mess and the school psychologist who is wonderful is also fully.booked.

You have health insurance. Get a private therapist.

NP-we have been on four waiting lists for a child therapist since August. These are for people who don't take insurance, BTW. I heard from one that she might have some appointments opening up in March.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire dialogue around Covid is insane.

Year to year - according to CDC - more folks die of heart disease and of cancer - not combined but in each of those categories.

It is unclear why children are being sacrificed. Yes - they can spread it but can we do an intelligent cost/benefit analysis on this?

In the DMV during this whole almost year now, nobody has focused on children or their needs. Its all about the teachers and their rights, darn it!

But great news, obese folks are priority for vaccines.

It's absurd.

410,000 Americans have died in a year of COVID19 and tens of thousands more have long-lasting severe medical conditions (including heart disease) as a result of having had this highly transmissible disease (which makes it quite unlike cancer or heart disease) and you’re still going with this absurd take? My uncle died of COVID19 last week, having believed exactly what you are saying, and we are almost certain he got it from one of his kids who is a high school teacher in a part of the country that’s open for school.

Your elderly uncle should not have been socializing with people who could be contagious.

Well, I guess that’s told him right off. I mean, it’s hard to avoid socializing with the people you live with, but ... 🤷‍♀️

[Anonymous]

Oh, look, Germany is keeping its schools and daycares closed until mid-February along with a whole host of other measures: https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germany-extends-covid-lockdown-until-february-14/a-56277168

Dutch schools have been closed since mid-December: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-01-dutch-parliament-coronavirus-curfew.html

Those countries did a lot right in the part of the pandemic (their death tolls reflect that!) but .... we are in a new phase of it with even more contagious strains floating around and their leaders have bowed to reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

Thank you for this. I am an American but it is disturbing to me how much I hear liberal Americans espousing a view on the pandemic that is so focused on "personal responsibility" which is the same argument conservatives use to deny welfare benefits to single mothers or refuse asylum to immigrants.

The best possible response to a pandemic is communal. I think it can be hard to remember that in the US, where we have such an individualistic culture. Combine it with all the misinformation circulating (yes, I'm talking to you, PP who keeps posting links to a bunch of headlines in tweets to make your argument instead of engaging with what people are actually saying in the thread) and it's a recipe for disaster. If we leave families to just figure all of this out on their own, we will leave behind the vast majority of families.

It amuses me how parents here think they can just wish away data and scientific analysis. All spring and summer you were screaming for schools to open because 'kids aren't affected'. Now Europe/UK are reeling from a surge in viral cases and a mutation linked from their 'open no matter what' policies. It also turns out kids are carriers who are highly efficient at spreading the virus. Now you just want to ignore all that and still open schools because little Susie needs companionship.

Sorry. Gates closed. Figure it out.

Wait - now the open schools didn't only cause the surge (for which you have no evidence), they are also responsible for the mutation?

Also, it is still expert consensus that kids under the age of ten - and that is about whom we are talking here - are not "highly effective" spreaders of the virus. Nobody says they cannot spread it, but they spread it much less than older kids and adults.

You are one to talk about data and scientific analysis.

So did you miss the Ontario data? Because children under the age of 10 are just as likely, sometimes exceeding the rates of tweens/teens, to be contagious carriers of Covid-19 - above and beyond any other age group.

Weird right? Kind of matches what we've thought all along.


- Data courtesy of Dr. Fisman, University of Toronto Epidemiologist
https://twitter.com/DFisman/status/1352351686514384896

Tweets do not make a scientific consensus.

The second 'tweet' is a linked peer-reviewed study from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention. But do keep on with your misinformation.

This isn't a "peer-reviewed study from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention". It is a research letter to the journal Emerging Infectious Diseases, which is published by the CDC.

God, some of you are scientifically illiterate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, look, Germany is keeping its schools and daycares closed until mid-February along with a whole host of other measures: https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-germany-extends-covid-lockdown-until-february-14/a-56277168

Dutch schools have been closed since mid-December: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-01-dutch-parliament-coronavirus-curfew.html

Those countries did a lot right in the part of the pandemic (their death tolls reflect that!) but .... we are in a new phase of it with even more contagious strains floating around and their leaders have bowed to reality.

Not true. My kids are in elementary in Germany right now and it is hybrid. The states in Germany make their own decisions regardless of what the federal government says.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also months long waitlists for private therapists.

I tried to find a therapist/psychologist/counselor/someone for my 9 year old at the beginning of the summer. He was withdrawn, angry, had no appetite, had no interest in things he had normally enjoyed. Started summer little league and summer soccer and in a few weeks he was back to his old self. Kids need IN PERSON social interaction. Virtual is not the same.

We had a very similar experience with our 11 yo dd, who improved all summer and fall due to sports and outdoor activities but now with fall sports over she seems to be getting depressed again .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also months long waitlists for private therapists.

I tried to find a therapist/psychologist/counselor/someone for my 9 year old at the beginning of the summer. He was withdrawn, angry, had no appetite, had no interest in things he had normally enjoyed. Started summer little league and summer soccer and in a few weeks he was back to his old self. Kids need IN PERSON social interaction. Virtual is not the same.

We had a very similar experience with our 11 yo dd, who improved all summer and fall due to sports and outdoor activities but now with fall sports over she seems to be getting depressed again .

my 8 year old literally runs laps around the house all day due to the sensory deprivation of DL. I actually joined him for a few laps to see what it’s like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire dialogue around Covid is insane.

Year to year - according to CDC - more folks die of heart disease and of cancer - not combined but in each of those categories.

It is unclear why children are being sacrificed. Yes - they can spread it but can we do an intelligent cost/benefit analysis on this?

In the DMV during this whole almost year now, nobody has focused on children or their needs. Its all about the teachers and their rights, darn it!

But great news, obese folks are priority for vaccines.

It's absurd.

410,000 Americans have died in a year of COVID19 and tens of thousands more have long-lasting severe medical conditions (including heart disease) as a result of having had this highly transmissible disease (which makes it quite unlike cancer or heart disease) and you’re still going with this absurd take? My uncle died of COVID19 last week, having believed exactly what you are saying, and we are almost certain he got it from one of his kids who is a high school teacher in a part of the country that’s open for school.

Your elderly uncle should not have been socializing with people who could be contagious.

Well, I guess that’s told him right off. I mean, it’s hard to avoid socializing with the people you live with, but ... 🤷‍♀️

Exactly. Your uncle and his adult child are both adults who need to take responsible for their living arrangements, life choices and risk level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also months long waitlists for private therapists.

I tried to find a therapist/psychologist/counselor/someone for my 9 year old at the beginning of the summer. He was withdrawn, angry, had no appetite, had no interest in things he had normally enjoyed. Started summer little league and summer soccer and in a few weeks he was back to his old self. Kids need IN PERSON social interaction. Virtual is not the same.

We had a very similar experience with our 11 yo dd, who improved all summer and fall due to sports and outdoor activities but now with fall sports over she seems to be getting depressed again .

my 8 year old literally runs laps around the house all day due to the sensory deprivation of DL. I actually joined him for a few laps to see what it’s like.

My 6 year old too. I take him to the park daily, but I also have to keep the toddler from falling off playground equipment or running into the road, and with no one to run with he just doesn't get enough energy out. I'm trying to set up weekend outdoor play dates but they are not enough. I can't wait until he can burn off energy at the school park with classmates after school again. We didn't sign him up for spring or fall sports due to covid safety fears but I think we will for something starting outdoors in April. Maybe we'll get covid, I hope not, but my husband will be vaccinated through work and younger DC is no longer an infant, at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire dialogue around Covid is insane.

Year to year - according to CDC - more folks die of heart disease and of cancer - not combined but in each of those categories.

It is unclear why children are being sacrificed. Yes - they can spread it but can we do an intelligent cost/benefit analysis on this?

In the DMV during this whole almost year now, nobody has focused on children or their needs. Its all about the teachers and their rights, darn it!

But great news, obese folks are priority for vaccines.

It's absurd.

410,000 Americans have died in a year of COVID19 and tens of thousands more have long-lasting severe medical conditions (including heart disease) as a result of having had this highly transmissible disease (which makes it quite unlike cancer or heart disease) and you’re still going with this absurd take? My uncle died of COVID19 last week, having believed exactly what you are saying, and we are almost certain he got it from one of his kids who is a high school teacher in a part of the country that’s open for school.

Your elderly uncle should not have been socializing with people who could be contagious.

Well, I guess that’s told him right off. I mean, it’s hard to avoid socializing with the people you live with, but ... 🤷‍♀️

Exactly. Your uncle and his adult child are both adults who need to take responsible for their living arrangements, life choices and risk level.

WOW. Take a hard look inside yourself, PP, this is ugly. And I say this as someone who sees value in school reopening. There's no need to minimize the tragedy here by insisting anyone who dies had it coming,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are struggling for a variety of reasons but they need adult support. Kids will struggle if they don't have someone to monitor and support them when they have questions and make sure assignments is done. Likewise, if your kid is struggling at home you need to look at what is going on and change your home structure to make it work for your child. You cannot expect schools to be everything to everyone, especially in terms of mental health. If your child is struggling, use your insurance and get your child and you support.

But it's reasonable to expect parenrs to be able to fulfill 100% of their kids' social, emotional, academic, and physical and mental health needs, without ever interacting in person with another human? I just don't think that's realistic. Parents aren't all amazing at everything and other relationships outside the nuclear family do play important roles in child development too. This is so so much pressure and it's not realistic.

No. But it's reasonable for parents to understand that school buildings are not the only way for their kids to have social contact and to arrange that if their kids need it, not to repeatedly demand that schools open in enclosed prolonged indoor contact during a pandemic. If your kids need socialixation, or their needs met, step up and arrange it. You don't need schools to parent for you. That's not their job. Education is their job and yes, is being provided, whether you like it or not, approve or not or agree or not.

THIS!

If you really think 6.5 hours in a classroom with 12 other kids is safe, then you are good to host a 2 hour play date for one kid at your house.

That said, a friend has tried this repeatedly and is finding that other parents don’t want to do the play dates. I think that’s a good signal that either they don’t think it’s safe or their kids are not having meltdowns like her son is.

DP, but a huge part of the problem is that parents are having to do it all with zero childcare. I mean, when are they supposed to work in between supervising remote learning and making sure their kids get their social/emotional needs met?

It’s not a personal criticism of teachers to note that schools provided care for children, which allowed parents to work. When that care was no longer provided, parents are left in the lurch of having to do it all and then accused of being lazy and awful if they’re struggling. It’s one of the practical reasons remote learning doesn’t work for the younger set.

Can I just say after nearly a year -- if you don't get this, let me spell it out for you.

Your kid's social engagement schedule is not the country's or the state's problem during a pandemic. Their job is to protect the community's public health and with nearly half a million Americans dead -- get ready for more stringent lockdowns, not less.

If you don’t get this, let me spell it out for you:

A generation of depressed, angry children is a public health crisis.

A generation of overwhelmed women stepping back from the workplace is an economic and social crisis.

Conflicting issues need to be balanced.

THIS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are struggling for a variety of reasons but they need adult support. Kids will struggle if they don't have someone to monitor and support them when they have questions and make sure assignments is done. Likewise, if your kid is struggling at home you need to look at what is going on and change your home structure to make it work for your child. You cannot expect schools to be everything to everyone, especially in terms of mental health. If your child is struggling, use your insurance and get your child and you support.

But it's reasonable to expect parenrs to be able to fulfill 100% of their kids' social, emotional, academic, and physical and mental health needs, without ever interacting in person with another human? I just don't think that's realistic. Parents aren't all amazing at everything and other relationships outside the nuclear family do play important roles in child development too. This is so so much pressure and it's not realistic.

No. But it's reasonable for parents to understand that school buildings are not the only way for their kids to have social contact and to arrange that if their kids need it, not to repeatedly demand that schools open in enclosed prolonged indoor contact during a pandemic. If your kids need socialixation, or their needs met, step up and arrange it. You don't need schools to parent for you. That's not their job. Education is their job and yes, is being provided, whether you like it or not, approve or not or agree or not.

THIS!

If you really think 6.5 hours in a classroom with 12 other kids is safe, then you are good to host a 2 hour play date for one kid at your house.

That said, a friend has tried this repeatedly and is finding that other parents don’t want to do the play dates. I think that’s a good signal that either they don’t think it’s safe or their kids are not having meltdowns like her son is.

DP, but a huge part of the problem is that parents are having to do it all with zero childcare. I mean, when are they supposed to work in between supervising remote learning and making sure their kids get their social/emotional needs met?

It’s not a personal criticism of teachers to note that schools provided care for children, which allowed parents to work. When that care was no longer provided, parents are left in the lurch of having to do it all and then accused of being lazy and awful if they’re struggling. It’s one of the practical reasons remote learning doesn’t work for the younger set.

Can I just say after nearly a year -- if you don't get this, let me spell it out for you.

Your kid's social engagement schedule is not the country's or the state's problem during a pandemic. Their job is to protect the community's public health and with nearly half a million Americans dead -- get ready for more stringent lockdowns, not less.

If you don’t get this, let me spell it out for you:

A generation of depressed, angry children is a public health crisis.

A generation of overwhelmed women stepping back from the workplace is an economic and social crisis.

Conflicting issues need to be balanced.

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

You make several good points. I'm so over the whole "we're all in this together" BS. We're not, and the parents who pay $$$ to put their kids in pods while supporting WTU's efforts to stay closed are harming the rest of us while also failing to do their part by refraining from socializing indoors with multiple families. If they can have kids from multiple households meet up in someone's 100 year old basement with a teacher, then they need to stop chanting "onlywhenit'ssafe."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education is NOT being provided. End of story.

Unless you are at a private, that just simply isn’t true. It might not be the form of education you want or how much you want, but it is being offered. Even after schools physically reopen, it still won’t look like pre-pandemic school.

Education implies both a teacher teaching and a child actually learning. Simply offering up something digitally is not in any sense the meaning of "education". We could close all public schools and just keep library opens and that would be an "education" under your definition.

Does health care imply both a doctor giving treatment and the patient recovering? If so, there’s a lot of doctors not doing their job right now!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are struggling for a variety of reasons but they need adult support. Kids will struggle if they don't have someone to monitor and support them when they have questions and make sure assignments is done. Likewise, if your kid is struggling at home you need to look at what is going on and change your home structure to make it work for your child. You cannot expect schools to be everything to everyone, especially in terms of mental health. If your child is struggling, use your insurance and get your child and you support.

But it's reasonable to expect parenrs to be able to fulfill 100% of their kids' social, emotional, academic, and physical and mental health needs, without ever interacting in person with another human? I just don't think that's realistic. Parents aren't all amazing at everything and other relationships outside the nuclear family do play important roles in child development too. This is so so much pressure and it's not realistic.

No. But it's reasonable for parents to understand that school buildings are not the only way for their kids to have social contact and to arrange that if their kids need it, not to repeatedly demand that schools open in enclosed prolonged indoor contact during a pandemic. If your kids need socialixation, or their needs met, step up and arrange it. You don't need schools to parent for you. That's not their job. Education is their job and yes, is being provided, whether you like it or not, approve or not or agree or not.

THIS!

If you really think 6.5 hours in a classroom with 12 other kids is safe, then you are good to host a 2 hour play date for one kid at your house.

That said, a friend has tried this repeatedly and is finding that other parents don’t want to do the play dates. I think that’s a good signal that either they don’t think it’s safe or their kids are not having meltdowns like her son is.

DP, but a huge part of the problem is that parents are having to do it all with zero childcare. I mean, when are they supposed to work in between supervising remote learning and making sure their kids get their social/emotional needs met?

It’s not a personal criticism of teachers to note that schools provided care for children, which allowed parents to work. When that care was no longer provided, parents are left in the lurch of having to do it all and then accused of being lazy and awful if they’re struggling. It’s one of the practical reasons remote learning doesn’t work for the younger set.

Can I just say after nearly a year -- if you don't get this, let me spell it out for you.

Your kid's social engagement schedule is not the country's or the state's problem during a pandemic. Their job is to protect the community's public health and with nearly half a million Americans dead -- get ready for more stringent lockdowns, not less.

If you don’t get this, let me spell it out for you:

A generation of depressed, angry children is a public health crisis.

A generation of overwhelmed women stepping back from the workplace is an economic and social crisis.

Conflicting issues need to be balanced.

+1. As a European, it's really interesting to watch American liberals make this "you are on your own, fend for yourselves" argument when it comes to kids and families during the pandemic, while on the other hand calling for a "we are all in this together" approach when it comes to virus containment. European societies take a much more holistic approach to public health and community solidarity, one that balances the well-being and education of kids and the ability of families to maintain jobs with the need to contain the spread to protect those vulnerable to the virus, and most importantly, keep hospitals from getting overwhelmed. That's why they are STILL keeping schools at least partially open in many places (misleading headlines notwithstanding), and will certainly not keep them closed for the rest of the year.

You make several good points. I'm so over the whole "we're all in this together" BS. We're not, and the parents who pay $$$ to put their kids in pods while supporting WTU's efforts to stay closed are harming the rest of us while also failing to do their part by refraining from socializing indoors with multiple families. If they can have kids from multiple households meet up in someone's 100 year old basement with a teacher, then they need to stop chanting "onlywhenit'ssafe."

Six kids in a basement then going home to 6 separate households is reducing the spread compared to 15 students in a classroom mingling in a building with 500-1,000 students in the hallway who are then going home to over 250 separate households.

I don't get how you don't understand this.