MCPS schools are segregated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is nothing new almost every place in the country has rich people who self select and drive up real estate prices for the "good" schools and "crappy" schools for the poors middle class is a mixed bag

Fairfax County (North West, West, SouthWest vs East/South East generally)
Montgomery County (West vs East generally)
Arlington County (North vs South generally)
Washington DC (WOTP vs EOTR generally)
Prince Georges (public schools almost universally suck, people of means go private except for a couple pyramids with you guessed it high real estate prices)

If you start messing with the rich areas and trying to break up these islands of prosperity. Guess what the rich will start going to private school en masse and you get a situation like Alexandria where the schools suck from middle school on because all the wealthy are in private school.

or even better all the entitled whiners move away which improves the overcrowding situation and leaves people who are interested in being part of the solution

um the only people left are idiots who are fine with mediocrity. Do you really think people in Bethesda and Potomac or any wealthy are are going to go East where the schools generally suck? lol and more importantly once you start to dilute the generally higher quality more prosperous areas with students from the rest of the county performance is going to down. Even W clusters school performance is going to go downhill if this plan liberal white guilty braindead equity plan is ever put in place.

As others have said it should not fall on schools to fix the lack of parenting and poverty that is increasing every year in MoCo. That is on the local government who somehow thinks adding less performing people through looking the other way on illegal immigration and adding more affordable housing is somehow a good idea for this region.

Is there any data to support this? For example, if a school goes from say 5% to 25% FARMS, do the scores of affluent kids actually fall as a result?

Fairfax County did a big study on this it's on board docs somewhere (too bad the search on here sucks) basically once you cross I want to say 20% or so school performance starts to go down. Once you cross 40% or so it becomes a lost cause.

I think a big things is if you have tracking or not and we all know tracking is on the way out

Think about it, if the teachers has to worry about 5 new lower performers that's time taken away from the rest of the class so I think logically performance is going to suffer.

Now most parents will supplement and kids are generally bright anyway but I think it's still safe to say having 25 top performers is better than 20 top performers and 5 kids who need lots of help. There is a reason why Title 1 exists to give kids who need extra help extra resources.

DP.. no, that study followed the low income kids, and it was a study that MCPS used as well. It does not reflect the outcome of the higher performing students. There is another study that shows high performing students are not negatively impacted by the presence of more poor kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is nothing new almost every place in the country has rich people who self select and drive up real estate prices for the "good" schools and "crappy" schools for the poors middle class is a mixed bag

Fairfax County (North West, West, SouthWest vs East/South East generally)
Montgomery County (West vs East generally)
Arlington County (North vs South generally)
Washington DC (WOTP vs EOTR generally)
Prince Georges (public schools almost universally suck, people of means go private except for a couple pyramids with you guessed it high real estate prices)

If you start messing with the rich areas and trying to break up these islands of prosperity. Guess what the rich will start going to private school en masse and you get a situation like Alexandria where the schools suck from middle school on because all the wealthy are in private school.

or even better all the entitled whiners move away which improves the overcrowding situation and leaves people who are interested in being part of the solution

um the only people left are idiots who are fine with mediocrity. Do you really think people in Bethesda and Potomac or any wealthy are are going to go East where the schools generally suck? lol and more importantly once you start to dilute the generally higher quality more prosperous areas with students from the rest of the county performance is going to down. Even W clusters school performance is going to go downhill if this plan liberal white guilty braindead equity plan is ever put in place.

As others have said it should not fall on schools to fix the lack of parenting and poverty that is increasing every year in MoCo. That is on the local government who somehow thinks adding less performing people through looking the other way on illegal immigration and adding more affordable housing is somehow a good idea for this region.

Is there any data to support this? For example, if a school goes from say 5% to 25% FARMS, do the scores of affluent kids actually fall as a result?

Fairfax County did a big study on this it's on board docs somewhere (too bad the search on here sucks) basically once you cross I want to say 20% or so school performance starts to go down. Once you cross 40% or so it becomes a lost cause.

I think a big things is if you have tracking or not and we all know tracking is on the way out

Think about it, if the teachers has to worry about 5 new lower performers that's time taken away from the rest of the class so I think logically performance is going to suffer.

Now most parents will supplement and kids are generally bright anyway but I think it's still safe to say having 25 top performers is better than 20 top performers and 5 kids who need lots of help. There is a reason why Title 1 exists to give kids who need extra help extra resources.

PP here. My question is about performance by demographics. Of course performance will go down school-wide if kids from disadvantaged background now attend. I'm asking about performance of white kids, since that's really what everyone here seems concerned about--that their own kids performance will suffer if they attend school with poor minority kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is nothing new almost every place in the country has rich people who self select and drive up real estate prices for the "good" schools and "crappy" schools for the poors middle class is a mixed bag

Fairfax County (North West, West, SouthWest vs East/South East generally)
Montgomery County (West vs East generally)
Arlington County (North vs South generally)
Washington DC (WOTP vs EOTR generally)
Prince Georges (public schools almost universally suck, people of means go private except for a couple pyramids with you guessed it high real estate prices)

If you start messing with the rich areas and trying to break up these islands of prosperity. Guess what the rich will start going to private school en masse and you get a situation like Alexandria where the schools suck from middle school on because all the wealthy are in private school.

or even better all the entitled whiners move away which improves the overcrowding situation and leaves people who are interested in being part of the solution

um the only people left are idiots who are fine with mediocrity. Do you really think people in Bethesda and Potomac or any wealthy are are going to go East where the schools generally suck? lol and more importantly once you start to dilute the generally higher quality more prosperous areas with students from the rest of the county performance is going to down. Even W clusters school performance is going to go downhill if this plan liberal white guilty braindead equity plan is ever put in place.

As others have said it should not fall on schools to fix the lack of parenting and poverty that is increasing every year in MoCo. That is on the local government who somehow thinks adding less performing people through looking the other way on illegal immigration and adding more affordable housing is somehow a good idea for this region.

Is there any data to support this? For example, if a school goes from say 5% to 25% FARMS, do the scores of affluent kids actually fall as a result?

Fairfax County did a big study on this it's on board docs somewhere (too bad the search on here sucks) basically once you cross I want to say 20% or so school performance starts to go down. Once you cross 40% or so it becomes a lost cause.

I think a big things is if you have tracking or not and we all know tracking is on the way out

Think about it, if the teachers has to worry about 5 new lower performers that's time taken away from the rest of the class so I think logically performance is going to suffer.

Now most parents will supplement and kids are generally bright anyway but I think it's still safe to say having 25 top performers is better than 20 top performers and 5 kids who need lots of help. There is a reason why Title 1 exists to give kids who need extra help extra resources.

Actually found the link

https://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/AHBN695B725B/$file/Socio-Economic%20Tipping%20Point%20Study%20of%20Elementary%20Schools_July%202013_technical%20report.pdf

That doc is really great I wish we could sticky it somehow. One of my favorite sections is some actual ideas of how to fight poverty. Note busing and adding more rich kids isn't one of the solutions.

New schools: Assigning students to new schools may be considered towards the goal of
balancing or minimizing the level of overall school poverty as much as reasonably possible at the
new school and nearby schools.
? Special academic programs at school sites: Higher poverty schools may be considered as host
sites for programs that traditionally attract higher socio-economic populations to draw
voluntarily a broader economic population of students.
? Under- or over-filled schools: When student membership at schools considerably exceeds or
falls short of expected levels, explore the opportunity for moving students with the goal of
maximizing the number of schools with poverty levels below 20 percent.
? New neighborhood construction: Work with county agencies that influence socio-economic
integration of neighborhoods to create natural distributions of socio-economic levels.
Area 2 – Maximizing School Conditions in Higher Poverty FCPS Schools: In situations where the level of
poverty cannot be reduced at schools, FCPS could consider whether it has maximized higher poverty
schools’ capacity to engage and instruct their students. That is, while FCPS has engaged in many
creative and research-based practices, there are areas that can still be explored to increase the capacity
of schools with 20 percent or more poverty to meet the needs of their students. Based on a recent
conversation with the FCPS Leadership Team, the following is a list of opportunities that may be
explored:
? Teacher quality: Ensure that higher poverty schools have equally experienced teachers and as
stable a teaching force as the rest of the division. This would include the recruitment and
retention of highly experienced and committed teachers.
? Leadership quality: Ensure that higher poverty schools have equally experienced principals and
assistant principals as the rest of the division. These principals should be able to leverage
changes in the division that impact their schools’ success.
? Best Practices: Ensure that all schools have systematic and ongoing access to successful
practices based on the experiences of other FCPS schools or research.
? Resources: Ensure that higher poverty schools understand how to access resources, including
central office staffs, and consistently make best use of all resources provided.
? Parent and Community Engagement: Ensure that higher poverty schools understand how to
build effective family and community connections.
Stakeholders and decision makers should be engaged in conversations about the opportunities for
action related to the tipping point findings. Such discussions could solicit opinions about how else this
information could be considered, including the opportunities described for Areas 1 and 2 above, as well
as communications, resources, and other policy and funding issues

[Anonymous]

That doc is really great I wish we could sticky it somehow. One of my favorite sections is some actual ideas of how to fight poverty. Note busing and adding more rich kids isn't one of the solutions.

New schools: Assigning students to new schools may be considered towards the goal of
balancing or minimizing the level of overall school poverty as much as reasonably possible at the
new school and nearby schools.

? Special academic programs at school sites: Higher poverty schools may be considered as host
sites for programs that traditionally attract higher socio-economic populations to draw
voluntarily a broader economic population of students.

? Under- or over-filled schools: When student membership at schools considerably exceeds or
falls short of expected levels, explore the opportunity for moving students with the goal of
maximizing the number of schools with poverty levels below 20 percent.

? New neighborhood construction: Work with county agencies that influence socio-economic
integration of neighborhoods to create natural distributions of socio-economic levels.

Area 2 – Maximizing School Conditions in Higher Poverty FCPS Schools: In situations where the level of
poverty cannot be reduced at schools, FCPS could consider whether it has maximized higher poverty
schools’ capacity to engage and instruct their students. That is, while FCPS has engaged in many
creative and research-based practices, there are areas that can still be explored to increase the capacity
of schools with 20 percent or more poverty to meet the needs of their students. Based on a recent
conversation with the FCPS Leadership Team, the following is a list of opportunities that may be
explored:

? Teacher quality: Ensure that higher poverty schools have equally experienced teachers and as
stable a teaching force as the rest of the division. This would include the recruitment and
retention of highly experienced and committed teachers.

? Leadership quality: Ensure that higher poverty schools have equally experienced principals and
assistant principals as the rest of the division. These principals should be able to leverage
changes in the division that impact their schools’ success.

? Best Practices: Ensure that all schools have systematic and ongoing access to successful
practices based on the experiences of other FCPS schools or research.

? Resources: Ensure that higher poverty schools understand how to access resources, including
central office staffs, and consistently make best use of all resources provided.

? Parent and Community Engagement: Ensure that higher poverty schools understand how to
build effective family and community connections.

Stakeholders and decision makers should be engaged in conversations about the opportunities for
action related to the tipping point findings. Such discussions could solicit opinions about how else this
information could be considered, including the opportunities described for Areas 1 and 2 above, as well
as communications, resources, and other policy and funding issues

Literally everything bolded above is about "adding rich kids."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-segregation-exacerbates-student-achievement-disparities-report-says/

3/4 of black, Hispanic/Latino, and ESOL students are in high-poverty elementary schools
2/3 of white, Asian, and multiracial/ethnic students are in low-poverty elementary schools

Wrong.
Misleading


Subject line should read: Housing costs are different in high cost areas versus low cost areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-segregation-exacerbates-student-achievement-disparities-report-says/

3/4 of black, Hispanic/Latino, and ESOL students are in high-poverty elementary schools
2/3 of white, Asian, and multiracial/ethnic students are in low-poverty elementary schools

Wrong.
Misleading

Subject line should read: Housing costs are different in high cost areas versus low cost areas.

It's neither wrong nor misleading. Your objection is just that you don't want to talk about segregated schools, you want to talk about segregated housing.

[Anonymous]

I just wish the principal of our "W" high school would teach bad teachers how to teach instead of emails about this crap...

[Anonymous]

I and my children’s grandparents will truly pay $40k a year per child to not F up their childhood and education for a bunch of unsuccessful, unproven, leftist MoCo/MCPS board members’ social justice warrior experiment.

Also, the loss of the home value to ASAP move and live someplace not loony is priceless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I and my children’s grandparents will truly pay $40k a year per child to not F up their childhood and education for a bunch of unsuccessful, unproven, leftist MoCo/MCPS board members’ social justice warrior experiment.

Also, the loss of the home value to ASAP move and live someplace not loony is priceless.

Have at it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-segregation-exacerbates-student-achievement-disparities-report-says/

3/4 of black, Hispanic/Latino, and ESOL students are in high-poverty elementary schools
2/3 of white, Asian, and multiracial/ethnic students are in low-poverty elementary schools

Wrong.
Misleading

Subject line should read: Housing costs are different in high cost areas versus low cost areas.

It's neither wrong nor misleading. Your objection is just that you don't want to talk about segregated schools, you want to talk about segregated housing.

They’re not segregated.

You have 60% underperformers in MCPS; they are underperforming due to their families’ weak values and low expectations and incapabilities to raise their child. That’s why they live on welfare in group homes and are raised by a “auntie” or grandmother and half the time the father left town or is in jail.

Bussing that kid to suburbia isn’t going to do jack to that kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-segregation-exacerbates-student-achievement-disparities-report-says/

3/4 of black, Hispanic/Latino, and ESOL students are in high-poverty elementary schools
2/3 of white, Asian, and multiracial/ethnic students are in low-poverty elementary schools

Wrong.
Misleading

Subject line should read: Housing costs are different in high cost areas versus low cost areas.

It's neither wrong nor misleading. Your objection is just that you don't want to talk about segregated schools, you want to talk about segregated housing.

They’re not segregated.

You have 60% underperformers in MCPS; they are underperforming due to their families’ weak values and low expectations and incapabilities to raise their child. That’s why they live on welfare in group homes and are raised by a “auntie” or grandmother and half the time the father left town or is in jail.

Bussing that kid to suburbia isn’t going to do jack to that kid.

"the panman"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-segregation-exacerbates-student-achievement-disparities-report-says/

3/4 of black, Hispanic/Latino, and ESOL students are in high-poverty elementary schools
2/3 of white, Asian, and multiracial/ethnic students are in low-poverty elementary schools

Wrong.
Misleading

Subject line should read: Housing costs are different in high cost areas versus low cost areas.

It's neither wrong nor misleading. Your objection is just that you don't want to talk about segregated schools, you want to talk about segregated housing.

They’re not segregated.

You have 60% underperformers in MCPS; they are underperforming due to their families’ weak values and low expectations and incapabilities to raise their child. That’s why they live on welfare in group homes and are raised by a “auntie” or grandmother and half the time the father left town or is in jail.

Bussing that kid to suburbia isn’t going to do jack to that kid.

Dude. They're segregated.

3/4 of black, Hispanic/Latino, and ESOL students are in high-poverty elementary schools
2/3 of white, Asian, and multiracial/ethnic students are in low-poverty elementary schools

Entirely leaving aside your ideas about people living on welfare in group homes and being raised by scary aunties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-segregation-exacerbates-student-achievement-disparities-report-says/

3/4 of black, Hispanic/Latino, and ESOL students are in high-poverty elementary schools
2/3 of white, Asian, and multiracial/ethnic students are in low-poverty elementary schools

Wrong.
Misleading

Subject line should read: Housing costs are different in high cost areas versus low cost areas.

It's neither wrong nor misleading. Your objection is just that you don't want to talk about segregated schools, you want to talk about segregated housing.

They’re not segregated.

You have 60% underperformers in MCPS; they are underperforming due to their families’ weak values and low expectations and incapabilities to raise their child. That’s why they live on welfare in group homes and are raised by a “auntie” or grandmother and half the time the father left town or is in jail.

Bussing that kid to suburbia isn’t going to do jack to that kid.

Correct expecting the school to fix what's happening in the home is a fools errand. Public policy should focus on the home and let the schools focus on teaching

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to be with their own kind- whether that be color, religion, SES level, etc... There is nothing wrong with that and the board needs to acknowledge that. Nobody wants to be the only "put whatever you want here" at a school or drastic minority. That includes hispanics and blacks and whites. People need to stop calling everyone who says this a racist.

That doesn't mean that there can't be some redistricting to neighboring schools to help balance the numbers, but nobody should need to be bussed just due to balancing race as there are so many other factors.

So you are good with "separate but equal"?

NP, as long as the separate isn't forced, sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to be with their own kind- whether that be color, religion, SES level, etc... There is nothing wrong with that and the board needs to acknowledge that. Nobody wants to be the only "put whatever you want here" at a school or drastic minority. That includes hispanics and blacks and whites. People need to stop calling everyone who says this a racist.

That doesn't mean that there can't be some redistricting to neighboring schools to help balance the numbers, but nobody should need to be bussed just due to balancing race as there are so many other factors.

So you are good with "separate but equal"?

NP, as long as the separate isn't forced, sure.

Seriously, where are all of these defenders of segregation coming from? Now they're supporting "separate but equal"?!