Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a real example of how 350K can be Middle Class.

I was living in a paid off house with a stay at home wife and no kids in college making that much money. I would got to Turks and Caicos on vacation, buy wife a new car, had a BMW.

Well job ended, had to get new one. Same salary, much more expensive location and had to move. Now I have mortgage and my house costs me $3,700 a year. My kid started college and I have a second one starting in Fall. My college I am doing out of non-college savings as I only have enough for youngest and may be forced in early retirement. I will pay in Fall $8,000 a month for college on ten payment plan. Now I do $2,000 a month in 401k,

So I am up to $13,700 a month. Rest of bills car insurance, kids, food, you name it around $4,000 a month. So I am at $17,7000 month budget.

I cant afford nothing, have not been on a real vacation in three years. My car is a nine year old american car overdue for an oil change. My wife a 8 year old american car.

I can afford nothing.... but 8K per month for college... Sure, dude, you are so stricken, it is insane! Ever heard of in state college? If you didn't have that stupid BMW maybe you would have had more money today? Being poor with that much money is being stupid.

Agreed. Your kids need to take out student loans. My parents didn't pay a dime for my undergrad or masters degree. I paid off nearly $150k in student loan debt in six years by good old hard work, avoiding the non-profit sector, and refusing to settle for less than I'm worth in the market. Your kids can do the same.

Your kids can finance an education; you cannot finance retirement.

Kids are only eligible for the tiny loan amount. Rest is Plus loans I am on hook for. My kids are in State School. With merit aid. Around 40k each. I already saved for retirement as entire career put into 401k. But that is not real money. I can’t spend it. But between wife and I (she put in for 14 years before kids) we have around combined two million in 401k. Not going to stick kids with loans. Some are doing noble professions that won’t equal my earning power.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know of any economist or demographer that would say a household’s class level is determined by their itemized monthly budget. By all accounts, a household’s INCOME RELATIVE TO OTHER EARNERS OF THE SAME HOUSEHOLD SIZE AND IN THE SAME GEOGRAPHIC AREA. Yes, the cities mentioned in the article are high cost of living areas. But it’s very clear that spending almost $6,000 a month on PITI, which would equate to a $1.6 million dollar home, is absolutely unnecessary. There are plenty of suitable homes far, far below this price in the DC area. Whether a household inefficiently allocates its scarce resources among its spend categories is their decision to make. But it does NOT change the fact that, as noted above, class is not determined at the itemized budget level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a real example of how 350K can be Middle Class.

I was living in a paid off house with a stay at home wife and no kids in college making that much money. I would got to Turks and Caicos on vacation, buy wife a new car, had a BMW.

Well job ended, had to get new one. Same salary, much more expensive location and had to move. Now I have mortgage and my house costs me $3,700 a year. My kid started college and I have a second one starting in Fall. My college I am doing out of non-college savings as I only have enough for youngest and may be forced in early retirement. I will pay in Fall $8,000 a month for college on ten payment plan. Now I do $2,000 a month in 401k,

So I am up to $13,700 a month. Rest of bills car insurance, kids, food, you name it around $4,000 a month. So I am at $17,7000 month budget.

I cant afford nothing, have not been on a real vacation in three years. My car is a nine year old american car overdue for an oil change. My wife a 8 year old american car.

I can afford nothing.... but 8K per month for college... Sure, dude, you are so stricken, it is insane! Ever heard of in state college? If you didn't have that stupid BMW maybe you would have had more money today? Being poor with that much money is being stupid.

Agreed. Your kids need to take out student loans. My parents didn't pay a dime for my undergrad or masters degree. I paid off nearly $150k in student loan debt in six years by good old hard work, avoiding the non-profit sector, and refusing to settle for less than I'm worth in the market. Your kids can do the same.

Your kids can finance an education; you cannot finance retirement.

Kids are only eligible for the tiny loan amount. Rest is Plus loans I am on hook for. My kids are in State School. With merit aid. Around 40k each. I already saved for retirement as entire career put into 401k. But that is not real money. I can’t spend it. But between wife and I (she put in for 14 years before kids) we have around combined two million in 401k. Not going to stick kids with loans. Some are doing noble professions that won’t equal my earning power.

But it was your CHOICE to spend $8k a month on your kid’s education. That’s fine. But just because you put all of your money into one category and you don’t have much left over doesn’t make you middle class. It makes you upper class with a resource allocation problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a real example of how 350K can be Middle Class.

I was living in a paid off house with a stay at home wife and no kids in college making that much money. I would got to Turks and Caicos on vacation, buy wife a new car, had a BMW.

Well job ended, had to get new one. Same salary, much more expensive location and had to move. Now I have mortgage and my house costs me $3,700 a year. My kid started college and I have a second one starting in Fall. My college I am doing out of non-college savings as I only have enough for youngest and may be forced in early retirement. I will pay in Fall $8,000 a month for college on ten payment plan. Now I do $2,000 a month in 401k,

So I am up to $13,700 a month. Rest of bills car insurance, kids, food, you name it around $4,000 a month. So I am at $17,7000 month budget.

I cant afford nothing, have not been on a real vacation in three years. My car is a nine year old american car overdue for an oil change. My wife a 8 year old american car.

I can afford nothing.... but 8K per month for college... Sure, dude, you are so stricken, it is insane! Ever heard of in state college? If you didn't have that stupid BMW maybe you would have had more money today? Being poor with that much money is being stupid.

Agreed. Your kids need to take out student loans. My parents didn't pay a dime for my undergrad or masters degree. I paid off nearly $150k in student loan debt in six years by good old hard work, avoiding the non-profit sector, and refusing to settle for less than I'm worth in the market. Your kids can do the same.

Your kids can finance an education; you cannot finance retirement.

Kids are only eligible for the tiny loan amount. Rest is Plus loans I am on hook for. My kids are in State School. With merit aid. Around 40k each. I already saved for retirement as entire career put into 401k. But that is not real money. I can’t spend it. But between wife and I (she put in for 14 years before kids) we have around combined two million in 401k. Not going to stick kids with loans. Some are doing noble professions that won’t equal my earning power.

Translated: "I can, and will, afford to put three kids through college without loans, and still have $2m saved for retirement and a paid-off house. But there's not much left over after that. I'm barley scraping by - I can't afford nothing!"

It is a continual source of amazement to me how people who appear so dim on DCUM can make so much money in the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a real example of how 350K can be Middle Class.

I was living in a paid off house with a stay at home wife and no kids in college making that much money. I would got to Turks and Caicos on vacation, buy wife a new car, had a BMW.

Well job ended, had to get new one. Same salary, much more expensive location and had to move. Now I have mortgage and my house costs me $3,700 a year. My kid started college and I have a second one starting in Fall. My college I am doing out of non-college savings as I only have enough for youngest and may be forced in early retirement. I will pay in Fall $8,000 a month for college on ten payment plan. Now I do $2,000 a month in 401k,

So I am up to $13,700 a month. Rest of bills car insurance, kids, food, you name it around $4,000 a month. So I am at $17,7000 month budget.

I cant afford nothing, have not been on a real vacation in three years. My car is a nine year old american car overdue for an oil change. My wife a 8 year old american car.

I can afford nothing.... but 8K per month for college... Sure, dude, you are so stricken, it is insane! Ever heard of in state college? If you didn't have that stupid BMW maybe you would have had more money today? Being poor with that much money is being stupid.

Agreed. Your kids need to take out student loans. My parents didn't pay a dime for my undergrad or masters degree. I paid off nearly $150k in student loan debt in six years by good old hard work, avoiding the non-profit sector, and refusing to settle for less than I'm worth in the market. Your kids can do the same.

Your kids can finance an education; you cannot finance retirement.

Kids are only eligible for the tiny loan amount. Rest is Plus loans I am on hook for. My kids are in State School. With merit aid. Around 40k each. I already saved for retirement as entire career put into 401k. But that is not real money. I can’t spend it. But between wife and I (she put in for 14 years before kids) we have around combined two million in 401k. Not going to stick kids with loans. Some are doing noble professions that won’t equal my earning power.

We make less than $250k a year, and when we first had kids, we made only $100k. My mortgage ranged from $2800-4300. We max retirement. We still managed to save $200k for college SO FAR (kid2 just started high school). Kid1 is in college (state school, no aid) and we can pay for the whole thing today.

YOU HAVE A SPENDING AND PRIORITIES ISSUE. Not an income issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a real example of how 350K can be Middle Class.

I was living in a paid off house with a stay at home wife and no kids in college making that much money. I would got to Turks and Caicos on vacation, buy wife a new car, had a BMW.

Well job ended, had to get new one. Same salary, much more expensive location and had to move. Now I have mortgage and my house costs me $3,700 a year. My kid started college and I have a second one starting in Fall. My college I am doing out of non-college savings as I only have enough for youngest and may be forced in early retirement. I will pay in Fall $8,000 a month for college on ten payment plan. Now I do $2,000 a month in 401k,

So I am up to $13,700 a month. Rest of bills car insurance, kids, food, you name it around $4,000 a month. So I am at $17,7000 month budget.

I cant afford nothing, have not been on a real vacation in three years. My car is a nine year old american car overdue for an oil change. My wife a 8 year old american car.

I can afford nothing.... but 8K per month for college... Sure, dude, you are so stricken, it is insane! Ever heard of in state college? If you didn't have that stupid BMW maybe you would have had more money today? Being poor with that much money is being stupid.

Agreed. Your kids need to take out student loans. My parents didn't pay a dime for my undergrad or masters degree. I paid off nearly $150k in student loan debt in six years by good old hard work, avoiding the non-profit sector, and refusing to settle for less than I'm worth in the market. Your kids can do the same.

Your kids can finance an education; you cannot finance retirement.

Kids are only eligible for the tiny loan amount. Rest is Plus loans I am on hook for. My kids are in State School. With merit aid. Around 40k each. I already saved for retirement as entire career put into 401k. But that is not real money. I can’t spend it. But between wife and I (she put in for 14 years before kids) we have around combined two million in 401k. Not going to stick kids with loans. Some are doing noble professions that won’t equal my earning power.

Translated: "I can, and will, afford to put three kids through college without loans, and still have $2m saved for retirement and a paid-off house. But there's not much left over after that. I'm barley scraping by - I can't afford nothing!"

It is a continual source of amazement to me how people who appear so dim on DCUM can make so much money in the real world.

DP.. this will be almost exactly us when we retire before 65. We may not be able to afford lavish vacations when we decide to retire early (by choice) with $2.3 mil, and have two kids in college, and that we can afford to fully fund for a STATE university, BUT, we certainly won't be complaining that we can afford nothing. Goodness.

If our kids decide to go to a more expensive college, they will have to take out loans and work. Kids should have skin in the game, anyways.

How can you be spending $8K a month for a state college AND your kid has merit aid? Something's not adding up. Even the most expensive state college would run you about $30K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a real example of how 350K can be Middle Class.

I was living in a paid off house with a stay at home wife and no kids in college making that much money. I would got to Turks and Caicos on vacation, buy wife a new car, had a BMW.

Well job ended, had to get new one. Same salary, much more expensive location and had to move. Now I have mortgage and my house costs me $3,700 a year. My kid started college and I have a second one starting in Fall. My college I am doing out of non-college savings as I only have enough for youngest and may be forced in early retirement. I will pay in Fall $8,000 a month for college on ten payment plan. Now I do $2,000 a month in 401k,

So I am up to $13,700 a month. Rest of bills car insurance, kids, food, you name it around $4,000 a month. So I am at $17,7000 month budget.

I cant afford nothing, have not been on a real vacation in three years. My car is a nine year old american car overdue for an oil change. My wife a 8 year old american car.

I can afford nothing.... but 8K per month for college... Sure, dude, you are so stricken, it is insane! Ever heard of in state college? If you didn't have that stupid BMW maybe you would have had more money today? Being poor with that much money is being stupid.

Agreed. Your kids need to take out student loans. My parents didn't pay a dime for my undergrad or masters degree. I paid off nearly $150k in student loan debt in six years by good old hard work, avoiding the non-profit sector, and refusing to settle for less than I'm worth in the market. Your kids can do the same.

Your kids can finance an education; you cannot finance retirement.

Kids are only eligible for the tiny loan amount. Rest is Plus loans I am on hook for. My kids are in State School. With merit aid. Around 40k each. I already saved for retirement as entire career put into 401k. But that is not real money. I can’t spend it. But between wife and I (she put in for 14 years before kids) we have around combined two million in 401k. Not going to stick kids with loans. Some are doing noble professions that won’t equal my earning power.

Are you that stupid? How can someone with 2M in retirement all it not real money?!

[Anonymous]

Why do the middle class and the UMC continue to battle this out when really both should turn their ire to the .1% who really should be made to pay more in taxes?

It's like circuses and bread in the Roman times, I tell you.

[Anonymous]

Amazing that the class of people that WON the capitalism game cannot see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a real example of how 350K can be Middle Class.

I was living in a paid off house with a stay at home wife and no kids in college making that much money. I would got to Turks and Caicos on vacation, buy wife a new car, had a BMW.

Well job ended, had to get new one. Same salary, much more expensive location and had to move. Now I have mortgage and my house costs me $3,700 a year. My kid started college and I have a second one starting in Fall. My college I am doing out of non-college savings as I only have enough for youngest and may be forced in early retirement. I will pay in Fall $8,000 a month for college on ten payment plan. Now I do $2,000 a month in 401k,

So I am up to $13,700 a month. Rest of bills car insurance, kids, food, you name it around $4,000 a month. So I am at $17,7000 month budget.

I cant afford nothing, have not been on a real vacation in three years. My car is a nine year old american car overdue for an oil change. My wife a 8 year old american car.

I can afford nothing.... but 8K per month for college... Sure, dude, you are so stricken, it is insane! Ever heard of in state college? If you didn't have that stupid BMW maybe you would have had more money today? Being poor with that much money is being stupid.

Agreed. Your kids need to take out student loans. My parents didn't pay a dime for my undergrad or masters degree. I paid off nearly $150k in student loan debt in six years by good old hard work, avoiding the non-profit sector, and refusing to settle for less than I'm worth in the market. Your kids can do the same.

Your kids can finance an education; you cannot finance retirement.

Kids are only eligible for the tiny loan amount. Rest is Plus loans I am on hook for. My kids are in State School. With merit aid. Around 40k each. I already saved for retirement as entire career put into 401k. But that is not real money. I can’t spend it. But between wife and I (she put in for 14 years before kids) we have around combined two million in 401k. Not going to stick kids with loans. Some are doing noble professions that won’t equal my earning power.

You're way out of touch with reality. Maybe instead of paying for their colleges, you should pay for the kids to take some financial education so they won't end up hopelessly ignorant about money AND much less earning power than their dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a real example of how 350K can be Middle Class.

I was living in a paid off house with a stay at home wife and no kids in college making that much money. I would got to Turks and Caicos on vacation, buy wife a new car, had a BMW.

Well job ended, had to get new one. Same salary, much more expensive location and had to move. Now I have mortgage and my house costs me $3,700 a year. My kid started college and I have a second one starting in Fall. My college I am doing out of non-college savings as I only have enough for youngest and may be forced in early retirement. I will pay in Fall $8,000 a month for college on ten payment plan. Now I do $2,000 a month in 401k,

So I am up to $13,700 a month. Rest of bills car insurance, kids, food, you name it around $4,000 a month. So I am at $17,7000 month budget.

I cant afford nothing, have not been on a real vacation in three years. My car is a nine year old american car overdue for an oil change. My wife a 8 year old american car.

You're an idiot. You have no college savings and have spent your money on vacations and BMWs. Had you exercised judgment back in the day, you would be fine.

Our HHI is half yours and we have two kids in college right now. Our day to day lives are *less* expensive than they used to be, because we are paying for two college educations at once entirely from savings. No need to touch current income.

Oh, and our cars are nine years old. So re: your wife's 8yo "american" car? Cry me a river.

[Anonymous]

It depends on your definition of MC/UMC. If you live in s DC suburb with kids, 2 or more cars, save for retirement still have a mortgage, and need to pay for college (our instate is 43K a year total) or need to pay for daycare then yes $250-350 only funds a MC lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do the middle class and the UMC continue to battle this out when really both should turn their ire to the .1% who really should be made to pay more in taxes?

It's like circuses and bread in the Roman times, I tell you.

To stop complaining about our "average MC lifestyle" is to admit that we are privileged, why on earth would any of us UMC folks do that!?!? Don't you understand that I am as stricken with poverty as the minimum wage cashier at Walmart? I can afford nothing after paying $20k a month on expenses, half of which are optional. Have some sympathy for your fellow DCUMers.

[Anonymous]

A typical vacation not at a relatives house not camping costs about $1000/day. You could budget and get by with $3700 for a week. That’s going somewhere like Disney or cruise — MC vacation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do the middle class and the UMC continue to battle this out when really both should turn their ire to the .1% who really should be made to pay more in taxes?

It's like circuses and bread in the Roman times, I tell you.

To stop complaining about our "average MC lifestyle" is to admit that we are privileged, why on earth would any of us UMC folks do that!?!? Don't you understand that I am as stricken with poverty as the minimum wage cashier at Walmart? I can afford nothing after paying $20k a month on expenses, half of which are optional. Have some sympathy for your fellow DCUMers.

No one is saying that. And by the way, read the room. No cashier is posting on DCUM.

The point is, the .1% have been the true winners in the Information Revolution and the GOP further protects their gains by cutting taxes to benefit only them.

If the Information Revolution had occurred at a time when the top tax bracket was extended to reflect current reality (that many people do earn more than a million a year and that even beyond that, some earn more than 5 million a year and so on), the benefits would be more evenly spread around in society and there would be much less class warfare.