The elite private schools are getting rid of grades altogether.

[Anonymous]

Nobody has time for mastery transcripts — the students, teachers, or admissions staff.

And if you’ve ever read a standards-based report card, it tells you nothing.

The interested parties all want to know how a student performs compared to their peer group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought I’d revive this thread since the Washington Post covered this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/10/20/crusade-end-grading-high-schools/

Here is the article that revived the thread. It explains the mastery transcript.

This is super interesting but given the inequalities in US - master transcript credits being based on schools not teachers sounds like it could sink entire shops of students pretty fast.

And if we continue to leave so many people behind, we will never catch up to world leaders in education in math, science and literacy.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

Typo sorry - shops = ships … anyway you get the gist - so many disparities between public school systems let alone between private and public schools .

Loony sounds highly Innovative and forward thinking though … he started this system at a very elite school - can it be transplanted wifey elsewhere where schools and teachers are crippled by their students facing poverty, food and housing insecurities etc? Or is it only realistic for UMC private schools?

Reading the list of the schools in the consortium, there are some publics. I’d love to hear how it’s being implemented.

[Anonymous]

As others have said, St Ann's in Brooklyn has been doing this for decades and it hasn't hurt college admissions for its students in the least. That said...

Schemes like this tend to work best for students applying to colleges that have seen a lot of transcripts from these schools. If you're a St. Ann's student who wants to go to CalTech for engineering or even worse one who wants to go to Arizona State and major in business, I think you're going to have problems.

I think it also works well for subjects that are subjective. People will disagree as to which of the 3 top English students that year at a school like St. Ann's is actually the best writer in much the same way that different people will disagree as to which are the best English-language authors in the real world or even which book ought to win the Man Booker Prize this year.

But when it comes to physics or math? Then I think the student should make sure to take the AMC and Physics Olympiad exams. There need context that "best in his class at St.Ann's" isn't going to provide.

Another problem? I think the system really wroks best for students who don't rock the boat. I also don't think every high school teacher is a saint without biases. A male student may overlook the beautiful girl who is actually very good at physics because without even knowing it, he has this bias that beautiful girls are airheads or only good at the humanities. And the student who challenges teachers? Who refuses to admit that a teacher's favorite poet or book is "all that" ,,,I think that student will suffer.

[Anonymous]

No accountability or benchmarking or merit plus focused on equality / equity, so why not get rid of grades, tests, rank, everything. Just sit and chat about the latest SJW book out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just sit and chat about the latest SJW book out.

And this describes which school's core curriculum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just sit and chat about the latest SJW book out.

And this describes which school's core curriculum?

And school that ignores or downplays the basics to constantly focus on that. Opportunity cost of time in k-12 education is real. Only so many hours in a day or week. And year in America. The lost education really compounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, St Ann's in Brooklyn has been doing this for decades and it hasn't hurt college admissions for its students in the least. That said...

Schemes like this tend to work best for students applying to colleges that have seen a lot of transcripts from these schools. If you're a St. Ann's student who wants to go to CalTech for engineering or even worse one who wants to go to Arizona State and major in business, I think you're going to have problems.

I think it also works well for subjects that are subjective. People will disagree as to which of the 3 top English students that year at a school like St. Ann's is actually the best writer in much the same way that different people will disagree as to which are the best English-language authors in the real world or even which book ought to win the Man Booker Prize this year.

But when it comes to physics or math? Then I think the student should make sure to take the AMC and Physics Olympiad exams. There need context that "best in his class at St.Ann's" isn't going to provide.

Another problem? I think the system really wroks best for students who don't rock the boat. I also don't think every high school teacher is a saint without biases. A male student may overlook the beautiful girl who is actually very good at physics because without even knowing it, he has this bias that beautiful girls are airheads or only good at the humanities. And the student who challenges teachers? Who refuses to admit that a teacher's favorite poet or book is "all that" ,,,I think that student will suffer.

Yup. All very true in this areas private schools. Better enjoy your small slac they push on your student, and Studies majors, followed by grad school or non profits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t letter grades pretty artificial as it is? Tests give objective numbers, yes, but they are generally given under artificial time constraints that favor those who can do it faster, not necessarily better. Also, many classes have a “participation” component that favors the extrovert who waxes philosophical nonsense to buffer test grades, while the introvert kid who deeply understands material may not. There is a lot of room for subjectivity there.

Also the difference between an 89 and a 90 is 1.1% but the difference between an A- and a B+ is >11% even though the A- student was “better” than the B+ student by the slimmest possible amount.

Finally, the meaning of letter grades is not fixed. In the middle of the 20th century the median grade was a C. Now the median grade at Harvard is an A. I don’t know if rampant grade inflation is good, bad, both or neither, but I am confident is not as “objective” as people like to think.

I know! Exactly! Just can all forms of measurement. Just set a low bar, call it mastery or proficiency, and watch everyone soar!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the mastery transcript solves so many problems with grades, be it inflation, or differences in rigor.
I don’t think I saw any of the big DC privates on the list.
That’s a shame.

However, it leaves so much more of your future to the subjective views and writing skills of each teacher and also highly favors the extrovert. Our kids have been in schools with that transcript and some teachers handled it very well and were thoughtful and thorough, while other manipulated it to make themselves look good (look how much this student improved under my tutelage), and others gave the same vague, random remarks for everyone as if selecting from a menu.

Basically all this is doing is turning over the college admissions process to the high school teachers -- tell us who you think we should accept with no room for the student to input contrary data, like standardized test scores.

Just like the last two years of college processes. Sad thing is 80% of the teacher Recs are recycked and the. Maybe they do some bespoke ones for the students too if class or who are in their after school club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The elite privates really shouldn’t have grades. To simply get admitted into an elite is an accomplishment — and once in, the rigor, depth and expectations are vastly superior to anything “taught” in a public, where kids are given all As for having a pulse. It’s just not fair.

That’s just…yuck.

Okay a couple of comments to restore sanity.

1. Many (most?) kids in local “elite” private schools were admitted in very early grades. They didn’t “accomplish” much of anything except being born to affluent parents and maybe being a little precocious at that tender age.

2. Public HSs do not hand out As like candy. Public schools may have their flaws (we chose private) but a kid going to one of the better MCPS or FCPS HSs and getting all As will be a very good student. A lot of these kids would be near the top of elite privates as well, especially if you include TJ and magnet programs.

1. prob 30 of the 40 lower school students are sorund come 11th grade class of 120+

2. Top 10% of those Publics are very strong, capable students and young adults

[Anonymous]

In other words, you can't name any specific school which "constantly focus[es] on that." I'm fairly sure that no DC area school falls under this category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, St Ann's in Brooklyn has been doing this for decades and it hasn't hurt college admissions for its students in the least. That said...

Schemes like this tend to work best for students applying to colleges that have seen a lot of transcripts from these schools. If you're a St. Ann's student who wants to go to CalTech for engineering or even worse one who wants to go to Arizona State and major in business, I think you're going to have problems.

I think it also works well for subjects that are subjective. People will disagree as to which of the 3 top English students that year at a school like St. Ann's is actually the best writer in much the same way that different people will disagree as to which are the best English-language authors in the real world or even which book ought to win the Man Booker Prize this year.

But when it comes to physics or math? Then I think the student should make sure to take the AMC and Physics Olympiad exams. There need context that "best in his class at St.Ann's" isn't going to provide.

Another problem? I think the system really wroks best for students who don't rock the boat. I also don't think every high school teacher is a saint without biases. A male student may overlook the beautiful girl who is actually very good at physics because without even knowing it, he has this bias that beautiful girls are airheads or only good at the humanities. And the student who challenges teachers? Who refuses to admit that a teacher's favorite poet or book is "all that" ,,,I think that student will suffer.

This is VERY true- but it applies to grades on written work too.

Not claiming to be a super model or anything, but I'll never forget how it stung when in HS I had to prove to one of my teachers how I formed the basis for my thesis and take them through my examples because they just didn't believe that these were my own ideas and writing. I can still remember watching his smug expression change to wide eyed surprise and then shame.

Unfortunately, there are LOTs of people like this in education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just sit and chat about the latest SJW book out.

And this describes which school's core curriculum?

The School of the Straw Man Argument. It's all the rage nowadays. Link a concept to a ridiculous extreme and claim that the extreme invalidates the original concept.

Common logical fallacy. Ironically used by those here who claim to want higher standards.

LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody has time for mastery transcripts — the students, teachers, or admissions staff.

And if you’ve ever read a standards-based report card, it tells you nothing.

The interested parties all want to know how a student performs compared to their peer group.

Teachers are subjective enough in their qualitative remarks in report cards - dread to think if they had even more weight in subjective evaluations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t letter grades pretty artificial as it is? Tests give objective numbers, yes, but they are generally given under artificial time constraints that favor those who can do it faster, not necessarily better. Also, many classes have a “participation” component that favors the extrovert who waxes philosophical nonsense to buffer test grades, while the introvert kid who deeply understands material may not. There is a lot of room for subjectivity there.

Also the difference between an 89 and a 90 is 1.1% but the difference between an A- and a B+ is >11% even though the A- student was “better” than the B+ student by the slimmest possible amount.

Finally, the meaning of letter grades is not fixed. In the middle of the 20th century the median grade was a C. Now the median grade at Harvard is an A. I don’t know if rampant grade inflation is good, bad, both or neither, but I am confident is not as “objective” as people like to think.

I know! Exactly! Just can all forms of measurement. Just set a low bar, call it mastery or proficiency, and watch everyone soar!!

Introverts are very capable of expressing our thoughts, thank you very much.