The elite private schools are getting rid of grades altogether.

[Anonymous]

Aren’t letter grades pretty artificial as it is? Tests give objective numbers, yes, but they are generally given under artificial time constraints that favor those who can do it faster, not necessarily better. Also, many classes have a “participation” component that favors the extrovert who waxes philosophical nonsense to buffer test grades, while the introvert kid who deeply understands material may not. There is a lot of room for subjectivity there.

Also the difference between an 89 and a 90 is 1.1% but the difference between an A- and a B+ is >11% even though the A- student was “better” than the B+ student by the slimmest possible amount.

Finally, the meaning of letter grades is not fixed. In the middle of the 20th century the median grade was a C. Now the median grade at Harvard is an A. I don’t know if rampant grade inflation is good, bad, both or neither, but I am confident is not as “objective” as people like to think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just got a speech from HOS at our independent school, grades will be a thing of the past.
They are following the example of Andover, Exeter, etc...
So not only are they dropping AP, they are going to get rid of grades entirely.

What say you DCUM hive?

I think this wonderful -- very progressive. Any child gaining acceptance to an elite private in the first place is bound to perform well anyway. Bravo!

See, this is the bias that is BS.

Agree this is total BS. My kid left DCPS for a Big3 for high school and we had no idea how he/she would perform. Turns out she/he is performing at the top of the class.
My eyes are opened that a lot of the kids at these top schools are not genius level kids but are there because of other reasons: early childhood admissions, legacy status, sports, siblings, VIPs--the list goes on and on. I knew this in theory but now that I have a kid there I'm seeing it play out. My kid works reasonably hard but isn't a genius and was able to quite easily rise to the top of the cohort. There are a lot of kids in these schools that aren't academic overachievers at all.

Agree.

wash DC private school environment is not intellectually merit based nor even close to the demands or academic student body caliber of NE boarding schools or top NYC private schools or large city magnet public programs.

We were hoping it wouldn’t be that since we like the well-rounded curriculum but the robustness is not there. And we are not in the upper school yet. Student body at the lower years was based on peanuts concerned for behavior or attention issues, and tradition (parent went there, lots is wealth so why not).

Is there a Private School anywhere filled entirely with geniuses ? Did you seriously imagine that to be the case, that counter to all of your experience at college or your work environment or even Corp America or US Gov’t where there is a mix of intellect and different t qualities that play into one’s ability to be a leader, an innovator that somehow one school would be different than ALL of those other places ?

I think at most of these schools - and they are pretty much all the same - the top 15 percent of the class is very, very bright and you may have a few exceptional kids thrown in there , but what makes these school great educators isn’t that they are packed with genius kids - it’s the very high standards set for the middle of the pack on down - the fact that the expectations are set extremely high for them - as the norm - that the teachers teach to the top 15 percent t level and the kids are molded - and learn about themselves and develop real tough discipline and determination because they actually accept those expectations and then work their A@@ off

Being a genius doesn’t necessarily determine how far you will go in life - being determined often does

The teachers at this school are a great credit to this institution for tge academic environment they have created

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t letter grades pretty artificial as it is? Tests give objective numbers, yes, but they are generally given under artificial time constraints that favor those who can do it faster, not necessarily better. Also, many classes have a “participation” component that favors the extrovert who waxes philosophical nonsense to buffer test grades, while the introvert kid who deeply understands material may not. There is a lot of room for subjectivity there.

Also the difference between an 89 and a 90 is 1.1% but the difference between an A- and a B+ is >11% even though the A- student was “better” than the B+ student by the slimmest possible amount.

Finally, the meaning of letter grades is not fixed. In the middle of the 20th century the median grade was a C. Now the median grade at Harvard is an A. I don’t know if rampant grade inflation is good, bad, both or neither, but I am confident is not as “objective” as people like to think.

Give me a person who got straight 89’s and, as a result , got into their 2nd or 3rd choice school and is still burning over it - over the slacker who easily got A’s, never really pushed himself - and has never really had to stare failure / disappointed in the face and then - move on

Give me that young person - every time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The elite privates really shouldn’t have grades. To simply get admitted into an elite is an accomplishment — and once in, the rigor, depth and expectations are vastly superior to anything “taught” in a public, where kids are given all As for having a pulse. It’s just not fair.

That’s just…yuck.

[Anonymous]

I think the mastery transcript solves so many problems with grades, be it inflation, or differences in rigor.
I don’t think I saw any of the big DC privates on the list.
That’s a shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well my kid won’t study at all then …

Research shows best predictor for future success is grades …

How will they motivate students to do any extra work outside of class rooms? Or is that the point ? To make it as relaxing as possible ?

Isn’t the USA far enough down the international mat, science and language competency measures as it is?

Did you read the article?

Please post link to article you are referring to. I read OP’s statement and question - did not read every post in thread but a few pages … we were asked to respond to:

“Just got a speech from HOS at our independent school, grades will be a thing of the past.
They are following the example of Andover, Exeter, etc...
So not only are they dropping AP, they are going to get rid of grades entirely. What say you DCUM“

I don’t think this will end well. You need some quantifiable measures of knowledge and skill acquisition. I know my kid and DC will waste even more time if there is no grading.

I just think no grades is too extreme - and will probably disadvantage people from lower socio economic backgrounds even mor by making it harder for poor kids to show how hard working and smart they are through grades.

They should do some kind of compromise where grade is more heavily weighted to homework assignments that show understanding of work covered in class, original research projects and participation in class. It might work for a minority of wealthy geniuses but I can’t see how this will work for everyone or help US to stay competitive in international math and literacy rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t letter grades pretty artificial as it is? Tests give objective numbers, yes, but they are generally given under artificial time constraints that favor those who can do it faster, not necessarily better. Also, many classes have a “participation” component that favors the extrovert who waxes philosophical nonsense to buffer test grades, while the introvert kid who deeply understands material may not. There is a lot of room for subjectivity there.

Also the difference between an 89 and a 90 is 1.1% but the difference between an A- and a B+ is >11% even though the A- student was “better” than the B+ student by the slimmest possible amount.

Finally, the meaning of letter grades is not fixed. In the middle of the 20th century the median grade was a C. Now the median grade at Harvard is an A. I don’t know if rampant grade inflation is good, bad, both or neither, but I am confident is not as “objective” as people like to think.

Give me a person who got straight 89’s and, as a result , got into their 2nd or 3rd choice school and is still burning over it - over the slacker who easily got A’s, never really pushed himself - and has never really had to stare failure / disappointed in the face and then - move on

Give me that young person - every time

NP: Give me an email address; my son will be sending his resume. He is King of 89.9 B+ crowd! Almost like he plans it that way. lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the mastery transcript solves so many problems with grades, be it inflation, or differences in rigor.
I don’t think I saw any of the big DC privates on the list.
That’s a shame.

However, it leaves so much more of your future to the subjective views and writing skills of each teacher and also highly favors the extrovert. Our kids have been in schools with that transcript and some teachers handled it very well and were thoughtful and thorough, while other manipulated it to make themselves look good (look how much this student improved under my tutelage), and others gave the same vague, random remarks for everyone as if selecting from a menu.

Basically all this is doing is turning over the college admissions process to the high school teachers -- tell us who you think we should accept with no room for the student to input contrary data, like standardized test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The elite privates really shouldn’t have grades. To simply get admitted into an elite is an accomplishment — and once in, the rigor, depth and expectations are vastly superior to anything “taught” in a public, where kids are given all As for having a pulse. It’s just not fair.

That’s just…yuck.

Okay a couple of comments to restore sanity.

1. Many (most?) kids in local “elite” private schools were admitted in very early grades. They didn’t “accomplish” much of anything except being born to affluent parents and maybe being a little precocious at that tender age.

2. Public HSs do not hand out As like candy. Public schools may have their flaws (we chose private) but a kid going to one of the better MCPS or FCPS HSs and getting all As will be a very good student. A lot of these kids would be near the top of elite privates as well, especially if you include TJ and magnet programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t letter grades pretty artificial as it is? Tests give objective numbers, yes, but they are generally given under artificial time constraints that favor those who can do it faster, not necessarily better. Also, many classes have a “participation” component that favors the extrovert who waxes philosophical nonsense to buffer test grades, while the introvert kid who deeply understands material may not. There is a lot of room for subjectivity there.

Also the difference between an 89 and a 90 is 1.1% but the difference between an A- and a B+ is >11% even though the A- student was “better” than the B+ student by the slimmest possible amount.

Finally, the meaning of letter grades is not fixed. In the middle of the 20th century the median grade was a C. Now the median grade at Harvard is an A. I don’t know if rampant grade inflation is good, bad, both or neither, but I am confident is not as “objective” as people like to think.

My small independent high school sent grades on an unweighted 100 scale. The colleges did whatever the chose to with those transcripts, but it didn't seem to hurt admission at all. I think that's the fairest way, no letter grades just a 100 scale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought I’d revive this thread since the Washington Post covered this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/10/20/crusade-end-grading-high-schools/

Here is the article that revived the thread. It explains the mastery transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:2. Public HSs do not hand out As like candy. Public schools may have their flaws (we chose private) but a kid going to one of the better MCPS or FCPS HSs and getting all As will be a very good student.

At least as of a few years ago, the percentage of As handed out in MCPS math classes had doubled to about a third. That's unnecessarily high IMO.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/thousands-more-as-fill-report-cards-in-suburban-md-school-system/2018/09/22/9ddcc686-bce1-11e8-b7d2-0773aa1e33da_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2. Public HSs do not hand out As like candy. Public schools may have their flaws (we chose private) but a kid going to one of the better MCPS or FCPS HSs and getting all As will be a very good student.

At least as of a few years ago, the percentage of As handed out in MCPS math classes had doubled to about a third. That's unnecessarily high IMO.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/thousands-more-as-fill-report-cards-in-suburban-md-school-system/2018/09/22/9ddcc686-bce1-11e8-b7d2-0773aa1e33da_story.html

Or there are a lot more kids doing well in math, whether getting outside tutoring or not.

If you watch the Olympics, you will see that almost every Olympic game has a record breaking event. Look at ice skating - 50 years ago, the gold medal performance would probably not even make it to the olymic ice skating team. The bar keeps going up and up.

Likewise, so many kids now a days do more and more, more is expected of them. Somoene who went to Cal 30 years ago wouldn't be able to get in to Cal today with the same credentials. Same for so many other top universities. The bar just keeps getting higher everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought I’d revive this thread since the Washington Post covered this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/10/20/crusade-end-grading-high-schools/

Here is the article that revived the thread. It explains the mastery transcript.

This is super interesting but given the inequalities in US - master transcript credits being based on schools not teachers sounds like it could sink entire shops of students pretty fast.

And if we continue to leave so many people behind, we will never catch up to world leaders in education in math, science and literacy.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought I’d revive this thread since the Washington Post covered this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/10/20/crusade-end-grading-high-schools/

Here is the article that revived the thread. It explains the mastery transcript.

This is super interesting but given the inequalities in US - master transcript credits being based on schools not teachers sounds like it could sink entire shops of students pretty fast.

And if we continue to leave so many people behind, we will never catch up to world leaders in education in math, science and literacy.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

Typo sorry - shops = ships … anyway you get the gist - so many disparities between public school systems let alone between private and public schools .

Loony sounds highly Innovative and forward thinking though … he started this system at a very elite school - can it be transplanted wifey elsewhere where schools and teachers are crippled by their students facing poverty, food and housing insecurities etc? Or is it only realistic for UMC private schools?