Open Campus: The debate over the use of Howard's campus by neighbors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 issues being co-mingled on this thread.

1) white people allowed on a "traditionally black" campus

and

2) dogs being allowed on said campus.

I have a big problem if white people are not allowed, but I have no problem whatsoever with them banning dogs. In fact, I wish they would. If more places banned dogs then maybe entitled dog owners would stop thinking they must have a right to take Fido with them everywhere by default.

I think there are some AA people posting who genuinely don't have a problem with white people/neighbors on campus as long as they don't bring their dogs. There seem to be others (or one other) posting saying that it's more than the dogs, it's that the white people still aren't really welcome for whatever reason because it's offensive given the history.

Given that white people can enroll in and teach at Howard, it's obviously not true that white people aren't allowed on campus. Come on. The issue is dogs.

Another separate issue might be if there's a big influx of residents not connected to Howard, who suddenly decide to start using the quad like a park (dog or no). That would probably be an issue regardless of their color; but the fact that they are likely to be white gentrifiers would add to the tension, for obvious reasons.

If that were true then Howard students wouldn’t be tweeting “Dear White People...”. They’d be tweeting “Dear Asshat Dog Owners...” or “Dear POS Hipster that thinks the school should move...” But keep arguing it’s only about dogs...

Ok, the issue is white people with dog. Look, I'm not a huge fan of the "Dear White People" genre, but don't pretend you don't understand that it's different. Or, just admit you want to rehash the whole "reverse discrimination is the same as discrimination" argument, and I'll know you're arguing in bad faith.

I’m white and I think of it as just a Public Service Announcment. Why should I be offended? I’m a respectful dog owner. Only those who think the rules don’t apply to them would be offended.

Is it OK for an AA dog owner to walk their dog at Howard? Is it OK for a white dog owner to walk their dog at Howard? Be clear.

^^^This person suffers from intellectual disabilities, do not engage.

NP. Rather than being insulting, why don’t you answer the question if the answer is so simple?

dp I agree with the pp. I think the reason they won't answer is because it is more about white people than the dogs. They are using the dogs as an excuse but, we know the real reason.

+1.

I have seen zero evidence that white people with dogs behave worse than black people with dogs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a current debate about the use of Howard's campus by the community. I really do see both sides of the debate. If it is such a historic landmark, then the community should be able to access it but I agree that dog poop on the grass is a too much.

https://dcist.com/story/19/04/17/new-neighbors-keep-walking-their-dogs-on-howards-campus-students-say-its-disrespectful/?fbclid=IwAR1bdDMW4XzkpJQ_jGaf-yGyb6C73kBHVxJpHHA1xgt7Z7AlIj_OsqN2zrw

So much blatant racism displayed in this article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a current debate about the use of Howard's campus by the community. I really do see both sides of the debate. If it is such a historic landmark, then the community should be able to access it but I agree that dog poop on the grass is a too much.

https://dcist.com/story/19/04/17/new-neighbors-keep-walking-their-dogs-on-howards-campus-students-say-its-disrespectful/?fbclid=IwAR1bdDMW4XzkpJQ_jGaf-yGyb6C73kBHVxJpHHA1xgt7Z7AlIj_OsqN2zrw

So much blatant racism displayed in this article.

Indeed.

Those black students should learn a bit of history and stop discriminating others on the basis of race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a current debate about the use of Howard's campus by the community. I really do see both sides of the debate. If it is such a historic landmark, then the community should be able to access it but I agree that dog poop on the grass is a too much.

https://dcist.com/story/19/04/17/new-neighbors-keep-walking-their-dogs-on-howards-campus-students-say-its-disrespectful/?fbclid=IwAR1bdDMW4XzkpJQ_jGaf-yGyb6C73kBHVxJpHHA1xgt7Z7AlIj_OsqN2zrw

So much blatant racism displayed in this article.

Indeed.

Those black students should learn a bit of history and stop discriminating others on the basis of race.

The issue is they know their history, you don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a current debate about the use of Howard's campus by the community. I really do see both sides of the debate. If it is such a historic landmark, then the community should be able to access it but I agree that dog poop on the grass is a too much.

https://dcist.com/story/19/04/17/new-neighbors-keep-walking-their-dogs-on-howards-campus-students-say-its-disrespectful/?fbclid=IwAR1bdDMW4XzkpJQ_jGaf-yGyb6C73kBHVxJpHHA1xgt7Z7AlIj_OsqN2zrw

So much blatant racism displayed in this article.

Indeed.

Those black students should learn a bit of history and stop discriminating others on the basis of race.

The issue is they know their history, you don't.

And I know my history, you don't.

That's why the law knows no skin color -- either the campus is open or is not. But stop b&tching about people of a particular race walking by.

[Anonymous]

Has Howard posted the no pets allowed signs on campus yet?

[Anonymous]

I am alternately fascinated and appalled by this discussion. I am a white relative newcomer to DC who also is a dog owner (though I have never set foot on Howard's campus). I guess the easy fix is one that the university has already undertaken: have a formal position against dogs on campus. I would argue that they should next post signage to that effect. But the bigger issue, to me, is the interplay between existing black institutions and (mostly though not only) white newcomers. Sounds like most long-time neighbors kept away from the campus unless they studied, worked or were otherwise there for a particular reason. The new neighbors assumed that standards from other parts of the city/country regarding use of campus grounds would apply to Howard. I get that there is privilege embedded in that position -- the idea that the norms I've encountered elsewhere would play well in this new arena. I personally appreciate this debate as a way for me to understand not only that Howard is a special place for the black community but that the physical grounds are treated with reverence and that dogs continue to have a negative association for some. Other than encouraging dialogue, including this kind of forum, I'm not sure how else to address this. It feels completely unrealistic to expect the newcomers to "research" and "respect" their new environments in the way that has been suggested. I've lived in several states and a couple of foreign countries. While I try to be friendly and follow social norms, I'm sure I've missed the boat on those norms many, many times. In short: demographic change is happening in DC, like it or not. Figuring out a way to cope with that change would behoove both sides of the debate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am alternately fascinated and appalled by this discussion. I am a white relative newcomer to DC who also is a dog owner (though I have never set foot on Howard's campus). I guess the easy fix is one that the university has already undertaken: have a formal position against dogs on campus. I would argue that they should next post signage to that effect. But the bigger issue, to me, is the interplay between existing black institutions and (mostly though not only) white newcomers. Sounds like most long-time neighbors kept away from the campus unless they studied, worked or were otherwise there for a particular reason. The new neighbors assumed that standards from other parts of the city/country regarding use of campus grounds would apply to Howard. I get that there is privilege embedded in that position -- the idea that the norms I've encountered elsewhere would play well in this new arena. I personally appreciate this debate as a way for me to understand not only that Howard is a special place for the black community but that the physical grounds are treated with reverence and that dogs continue to have a negative association for some. Other than encouraging dialogue, including this kind of forum, I'm not sure how else to address this. It feels completely unrealistic to expect the newcomers to "research" and "respect" their new environments in the way that has been suggested. I've lived in several states and a couple of foreign countries. While I try to be friendly and follow social norms, I'm sure I've missed the boat on those norms many, many times. In short: demographic change is happening in DC, like it or not. Figuring out a way to cope with that change would behoove both sides of the debate.

I'm a AA dog owner who commented earlier. Thanks for your post. I think you have a good appreciation of the issues here, mostly captured in the bolded. One issue not mentioned is that black dog owners are not walking through campus and having their dogs relieve themselves, only white dog owners are. Most black people I know--even those who've attended predominantly white institutions--understand the racial issues overlapping with the dog issue here at Howard. It's different when white newcomers are perceived to not be showing adequate respect of a revered historically black college in a rapidly gentrifying area.

Also, as a black person with a big dog breed often associated with law enforcement and the Civil Rights movement, I've found that black people are more likely to cross to the other side of the street when they see me coming with my dog than white people. Yes, some black people have big dogs, but not everyone loves dogs. I would never think of strolling through an HBCU campus with my dog.

I agree that there's no stopping demographic change. From the Howard president's statement, it seems like they've already made known that they'd like people to refrain from walking their dogs on campus. Not sure if they plan on putting signs up, although that may be a good move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am alternately fascinated and appalled by this discussion. I am a white relative newcomer to DC who also is a dog owner (though I have never set foot on Howard's campus). I guess the easy fix is one that the university has already undertaken: have a formal position against dogs on campus. I would argue that they should next post signage to that effect. But the bigger issue, to me, is the interplay between existing black institutions and (mostly though not only) white newcomers. Sounds like most long-time neighbors kept away from the campus unless they studied, worked or were otherwise there for a particular reason. The new neighbors assumed that standards from other parts of the city/country regarding use of campus grounds would apply to Howard. I get that there is privilege embedded in that position -- the idea that the norms I've encountered elsewhere would play well in this new arena. I personally appreciate this debate as a way for me to understand not only that Howard is a special place for the black community but that the physical grounds are treated with reverence and that dogs continue to have a negative association for some. Other than encouraging dialogue, including this kind of forum, I'm not sure how else to address this. It feels completely unrealistic to expect the newcomers to "research" and "respect" their new environments in the way that has been suggested. I've lived in several states and a couple of foreign countries. While I try to be friendly and follow social norms, I'm sure I've missed the boat on those norms many, many times. In short: demographic change is happening in DC, like it or not. Figuring out a way to cope with that change would behoove both sides of the debate.

Sorry, no. It doesn't take some kind of secret knowledge to understand that you don't let your dog pee and poop on what is obviously a well-maintained piece of turf at the center of a small private college campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am alternately fascinated and appalled by this discussion. I am a white relative newcomer to DC who also is a dog owner (though I have never set foot on Howard's campus). I guess the easy fix is one that the university has already undertaken: have a formal position against dogs on campus. I would argue that they should next post signage to that effect. But the bigger issue, to me, is the interplay between existing black institutions and (mostly though not only) white newcomers. Sounds like most long-time neighbors kept away from the campus unless they studied, worked or were otherwise there for a particular reason. The new neighbors assumed that standards from other parts of the city/country regarding use of campus grounds would apply to Howard. I get that there is privilege embedded in that position -- the idea that the norms I've encountered elsewhere would play well in this new arena. I personally appreciate this debate as a way for me to understand not only that Howard is a special place for the black community but that the physical grounds are treated with reverence and that dogs continue to have a negative association for some. Other than encouraging dialogue, including this kind of forum, I'm not sure how else to address this. It feels completely unrealistic to expect the newcomers to "research" and "respect" their new environments in the way that has been suggested. I've lived in several states and a couple of foreign countries. While I try to be friendly and follow social norms, I'm sure I've missed the boat on those norms many, many times. In short: demographic change is happening in DC, like it or not. Figuring out a way to cope with that change would behoove both sides of the debate.

Sorry, no. It doesn't take some kind of secret knowledge to understand that you don't let your dog pee and poop on what is obviously a well-maintained piece of turf at the center of a small private college campus.

I think the PP is speaking more broadly with respect to gentrification and the impact on the campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am alternately fascinated and appalled by this discussion. I am a white relative newcomer to DC who also is a dog owner (though I have never set foot on Howard's campus). I guess the easy fix is one that the university has already undertaken: have a formal position against dogs on campus. I would argue that they should next post signage to that effect. But the bigger issue, to me, is the interplay between existing black institutions and (mostly though not only) white newcomers. Sounds like most long-time neighbors kept away from the campus unless they studied, worked or were otherwise there for a particular reason. The new neighbors assumed that standards from other parts of the city/country regarding use of campus grounds would apply to Howard. I get that there is privilege embedded in that position -- the idea that the norms I've encountered elsewhere would play well in this new arena. I personally appreciate this debate as a way for me to understand not only that Howard is a special place for the black community but that the physical grounds are treated with reverence and that dogs continue to have a negative association for some. Other than encouraging dialogue, including this kind of forum, I'm not sure how else to address this. It feels completely unrealistic to expect the newcomers to "research" and "respect" their new environments in the way that has been suggested. I've lived in several states and a couple of foreign countries. While I try to be friendly and follow social norms, I'm sure I've missed the boat on those norms many, many times. In short: demographic change is happening in DC, like it or not. Figuring out a way to cope with that change would behoove both sides of the debate.

Sorry, no. It doesn't take some kind of secret knowledge to understand that you don't let your dog pee and poop on what is obviously a well-maintained piece of turf at the center of a small private college campus.

I think the PP is speaking more broadly with respect to gentrification and the impact on the campus.

Not really. It just comes down to basic manners. Stop this hand wringing about "Oh, it's sooo hard for us gentrifiers to crack your mysterious social code!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am alternately fascinated and appalled by this discussion. I am a white relative newcomer to DC who also is a dog owner (though I have never set foot on Howard's campus). I guess the easy fix is one that the university has already undertaken: have a formal position against dogs on campus. I would argue that they should next post signage to that effect. But the bigger issue, to me, is the interplay between existing black institutions and (mostly though not only) white newcomers. Sounds like most long-time neighbors kept away from the campus unless they studied, worked or were otherwise there for a particular reason. The new neighbors assumed that standards from other parts of the city/country regarding use of campus grounds would apply to Howard. I get that there is privilege embedded in that position -- the idea that the norms I've encountered elsewhere would play well in this new arena. I personally appreciate this debate as a way for me to understand not only that Howard is a special place for the black community but that the physical grounds are treated with reverence and that dogs continue to have a negative association for some. Other than encouraging dialogue, including this kind of forum, I'm not sure how else to address this. It feels completely unrealistic to expect the newcomers to "research" and "respect" their new environments in the way that has been suggested. I've lived in several states and a couple of foreign countries. While I try to be friendly and follow social norms, I'm sure I've missed the boat on those norms many, many times. In short: demographic change is happening in DC, like it or not. Figuring out a way to cope with that change would behoove both sides of the debate.

Sorry, no. It doesn't take some kind of secret knowledge to understand that you don't let your dog pee and poop on what is obviously a well-maintained piece of turf at the center of a small private college campus.

I think the PP is speaking more broadly with respect to gentrification and the impact on the campus.

Not really. It just comes down to basic manners. Stop this hand wringing about "Oh, it's sooo hard for us gentrifiers to crack your mysterious social code!"

DP, and I agree with this PP. I do think that the first PP laid out the competing views quite well, but the onus is on the newcomer to take in the norms of the surroundings and observe rather than plunge right in with their preferences (not that PP's but the other white dog owners). The cherry on top is that neighbor who flippantly suggested moving the university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am alternately fascinated and appalled by this discussion. I am a white relative newcomer to DC who also is a dog owner (though I have never set foot on Howard's campus). I guess the easy fix is one that the university has already undertaken: have a formal position against dogs on campus. I would argue that they should next post signage to that effect. But the bigger issue, to me, is the interplay between existing black institutions and (mostly though not only) white newcomers. Sounds like most long-time neighbors kept away from the campus unless they studied, worked or were otherwise there for a particular reason. The new neighbors assumed that standards from other parts of the city/country regarding use of campus grounds would apply to Howard. I get that there is privilege embedded in that position -- the idea that the norms I've encountered elsewhere would play well in this new arena. I personally appreciate this debate as a way for me to understand not only that Howard is a special place for the black community but that the physical grounds are treated with reverence and that dogs continue to have a negative association for some. Other than encouraging dialogue, including this kind of forum, I'm not sure how else to address this. It feels completely unrealistic to expect the newcomers to "research" and "respect" their new environments in the way that has been suggested. I've lived in several states and a couple of foreign countries. While I try to be friendly and follow social norms, I'm sure I've missed the boat on those norms many, many times. In short: demographic change is happening in DC, like it or not. Figuring out a way to cope with that change would behoove both sides of the debate.

Sorry, no. It doesn't take some kind of secret knowledge to understand that you don't let your dog pee and poop on what is obviously a well-maintained piece of turf at the center of a small private college campus.

Where do you come from where it is ok to let dogs pee and poop on school courtyards, school playgrounds, school quads?

[Anonymous]

I think we live in a world where "dog culture" is really taking over. And I'm a dog owner and guilty as charged. We live in the city, choose to have a large dog, and do our best to get her exercise. And that involves taking her to places that were unheard of years ago. Including the local cemetery (Congressional)! Again, you may not like it but norms are changing. Come to any of my kids outdoor sporting events and you will see several dogs on the sidelines. Both black and white owners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we live in a world where "dog culture" is really taking over. And I'm a dog owner and guilty as charged. We live in the city, choose to have a large dog, and do our best to get her exercise. And that involves taking her to places that were unheard of years ago. Including the local cemetery (Congressional)! Again, you may not like it but norms are changing. Come to any of my kids outdoor sporting events and you will see several dogs on the sidelines. Both black and white owners.

Simple rules for dog owners: Obey the law and posted signs. Leash your dog. And pick up after your dog.