Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?

[Anonymous]

Or we just have fundamentally different values.

Scorecard data, BTW, will not be indicative of salaries generally. It’s based only on attendees who received federal aid.

[Anonymous]

You’re not getting an MBB or Wall Street offer with a so-so GPA. I’d put money on McIntire kids doing better in recruiting. Chicago is a grind. If your kid ends up in the bottom half of their class they’re going to have a 3.0 gpa.

[Anonymous]

New York Times wrote about a study based on tax records about economic diversity and student outcomes at US colleges.

UChicago grad had a median salary of $61,700 at age 34

UVA grad had a median salary of $71,200 at age 34

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or we just have fundamentally different values.

Scorecard data, BTW, will not be indicative of salaries generally. It’s based only on attendees who received federal aid.

How do you think this affects the data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or we just have fundamentally different values.

Scorecard data, BTW, will not be indicative of salaries generally. It’s based only on attendees who received federal aid.

Wrong. Gov scorecard pulls all students.

[Anonymous]

Students reviews:

http://www.studentsreview.com/IL/UC.html

http://www.studentsreview.com/VA/UV.html

UChicago:

B (Overall college rating)

Education Quality

A-

Social Life

C+

Extracurricular Activities

B
...
University Resource Use/ spending

B+

Surrounding City


UVA:

B+ (Overall score)


Education Quality

A-

Social Life

B+

Extracurricular Activities

A-
...
University Resource Use/ spending

B+

Surrounding City

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH is a highly placed corporate executive who went to Ivies, both undergrad and for business school. He works for a very large household name company. Most of his coworkers at his level did not go to expensive private colleges, at least for undergrad (some did go to well known business schools). Most went to flagship state universities and were recruited into the corporate world working for companies like Coca Cola for a few years before going for a MBA.

I would not pick Chicago solely in the hopes it would give your child a better shot at a more successful life if the alternative is UVA. UVA is a well known and reputable university that produces thousands of successful graduates. Any financial or employment advantages at Chicago will be going through a very specific type of recruitment track into the financial and consulting sectors and most kids don't do that, and even if you want to, it's not given you'll make it. Many applicants, even at the Ivies, get weeded out by the big firms.

UVA is a perfectly fine school. If money is a factor, go to UVA. It really is no brainer. If money is not a factor and you are appealed by the academic environment at Chicago, then go to Chicago. Just don't expect Chicago to open up that many more doors over UVA and it does depend on what kind of doors you're seeing to break through.

Here's a dirty secret about the top colleges. They all have many unique, individualistic and geeky students who do not go into the finances or law/business/medical schools. They become teachers, they work for nonprofits, they go into the arts. They barely struggle to make it into the upper middle classes. Most are usually happy in their own way. At the same time, the state schools top of of the class will usually end up doing very well. They go into businesses and sales and top graduate schools. If you're looking at Chicago solely as an investment into your child's future financial well being, it most likely won't pay for itself over UVA. If you're looking at Chicago as a great gift to your child, to offer the experience of studying at a fabulous and academically intense university for four years, then that's understandable.

I want to pick this argument apart, but as much as I hate to admit it, this is true. You can be very successful going to a private school, a state school or even a directional University because the most important factor in determining your success in life is not where you go, but who you are. Do you have the work ethic, can you get along with and inspire people, do you take calculated risks in your life, are you open to learning new things and skills without fear of failure etc. These are character traits and schools can't teach you these.

So why go to private schools? The main reason is: you can. It is really a gift you give to your kids, if you can afford it without destroying yourself financially. Money matters in education and the richer private schools have more resources that your kid can potentially exploit. Your kid may or may not exploit them, but they could. Elite schools like Chicago also act as a mild signal that you are smart to anyone who knows very little about you except where you went to school. But if you open your mouth and say something dumb, then that signal vanishes quickly. The name on your degree and personal accomplishment of having made it to a selective school is also something that nobody can ever take away from you for the rest of your life. It's just personal satisfaction. It's not as big as finding and marrying the right person or being a good decent human being but it is something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Students reviews:

http://www.studentsreview.com/IL/UC.html

http://www.studentsreview.com/VA/UV.html

UChicago:

B (Overall college rating)

Education Quality

A-

Social Life

C+

Extracurricular Activities

B
...
University Resource Use/ spending

B+

Surrounding City


UVA:

B+ (Overall score)


Education Quality

A-

Social Life

B+

Extracurricular Activities

A-
...
University Resource Use/ spending

B+

Surrounding City

No scores on crime/safety? Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH is a highly placed corporate executive who went to Ivies, both undergrad and for business school. He works for a very large household name company. Most of his coworkers at his level did not go to expensive private colleges, at least for undergrad (some did go to well known business schools). Most went to flagship state universities and were recruited into the corporate world working for companies like Coca Cola for a few years before going for a MBA.

I would not pick Chicago solely in the hopes it would give your child a better shot at a more successful life if the alternative is UVA. UVA is a well known and reputable university that produces thousands of successful graduates. Any financial or employment advantages at Chicago will be going through a very specific type of recruitment track into the financial and consulting sectors and most kids don't do that, and even if you want to, it's not given you'll make it. Many applicants, even at the Ivies, get weeded out by the big firms.

UVA is a perfectly fine school. If money is a factor, go to UVA. It really is no brainer. If money is not a factor and you are appealed by the academic environment at Chicago, then go to Chicago. Just don't expect Chicago to open up that many more doors over UVA and it does depend on what kind of doors you're seeing to break through.

Here's a dirty secret about the top colleges. They all have many unique, individualistic and geeky students who do not go into the finances or law/business/medical schools. They become teachers, they work for nonprofits, they go into the arts. They barely struggle to make it into the upper middle classes. Most are usually happy in their own way. At the same time, the state schools top of of the class will usually end up doing very well. They go into businesses and sales and top graduate schools. If you're looking at Chicago solely as an investment into your child's future financial well being, it most likely won't pay for itself over UVA. If you're looking at Chicago as a great gift to your child, to offer the experience of studying at a fabulous and academically intense university for four years, then that's understandable.

I want to pick this argument apart, but as much as I hate to admit it, this is true. You can be very successful going to a private school, a state school or even a directional University because the most important factor in determining your success in life is not where you go, but who you are. Do you have the work ethic, can you get along with and inspire people, do you take calculated risks in your life, are you open to learning new things and skills without fear of failure etc. These are character traits and schools can't teach you these.

So why go to private schools? The main reason is: you can. It is really a gift you give to your kids, if you can afford it without destroying yourself financially. Money matters in education and the richer private schools have more resources that your kid can potentially exploit. Your kid may or may not exploit them, but they could. Elite schools like Chicago also act as a mild signal that you are smart to anyone who knows very little about you except where you went to school. But if you open your mouth and say something dumb, then that signal vanishes quickly. The name on your degree and personal accomplishment of having made it to a selective school is also something that nobody can ever take away from you for the rest of your life. It's just personal satisfaction. It's not as big as finding and marrying the right person or being a good decent human being but it is something.

+100 to both PPs. All of this hand-wringing over where a top student should go to school is pointless. They will do well regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Students reviews:

http://www.studentsreview.com/IL/UC.html

http://www.studentsreview.com/VA/UV.html

UChicago:

B (Overall college rating)

Education Quality

A-

Social Life

C+

Extracurricular Activities

B
...
University Resource Use/ spending

B+

Surrounding City


UVA:

B+ (Overall score)


Education Quality

A-

Social Life

B+

Extracurricular Activities

A-
...
University Resource Use/ spending

B+

Surrounding City

No scores on crime/safety? Interesting.

One of Chicago parents posted that Chicago provides extra security for students. This speaks of volumes. When I went to U of M and St. John's in 80's, we hardly needed protection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or we just have fundamentally different values.

Scorecard data, BTW, will not be indicative of salaries generally. It’s based only on attendees who received federal aid.

Wrong. Gov scorecard pulls all students.

No you're wrong. The Govt can only track the data of folks they have data on and these are the folks who applied for financial aid through the Govt. It is incomplete data, specially for schools that have a lot of institutional funds and are need blind and also have a lot of full pay kids.

Finally, Chicago has changed a lot in the last year years. All Govt or private pay level data for Chicago based on earlier cohorts is just not representative anymore. They are now attracting richer and more professionally oriented students and these students will have different career trajectories

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Students reviews:

http://www.studentsreview.com/IL/UC.html

http://www.studentsreview.com/VA/UV.html

UChicago:

B (Overall college rating)

Education Quality

A-

Social Life

C+

Extracurricular Activities

B
...
University Resource Use/ spending

B+

Surrounding City


UVA:

B+ (Overall score)


Education Quality

A-

Social Life

B+

Extracurricular Activities

A-
...
University Resource Use/ spending

B+

Surrounding City

No scores on crime/safety? Interesting.

One of Chicago parents posted that Chicago provides extra security for students. This speaks of volumes. When I went to U of M and St. John's in 80's, we hardly needed protection.

I would be more worried about safety in C-ville.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Students reviews:

http://www.studentsreview.com/IL/UC.html

http://www.studentsreview.com/VA/UV.html

UChicago:

B (Overall college rating)

Education Quality

A-

Social Life

C+

Extracurricular Activities

B
...
University Resource Use/ spending

B+

Surrounding City


UVA:

B+ (Overall score)


Education Quality

A-

Social Life

B+

Extracurricular Activities

A-
...
University Resource Use/ spending

B+

Surrounding City

No scores on crime/safety? Interesting.

One of Chicago parents posted that Chicago provides extra security for students. This speaks of volumes. When I went to U of M and St. John's in 80's, we hardly needed protection.

Chicago is safer than many schools in terms of crime statistics. Better than Harvard, Stanford, Yale etc. IIRC, somebody had posted come stats on the various schools here before. There may be reasons not to attend Chicago: money, rigorous academics, not Div I, not a party school, weather etc etc. Crime and safety is not one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or we just have fundamentally different values.

Scorecard data, BTW, will not be indicative of salaries generally. It’s based only on attendees who received federal aid.

Wrong. Gov scorecard pulls all students.

No you're wrong. The Govt can only track the data of folks they have data on and these are the folks who applied for financial aid through the Govt. It is incomplete data, specially for schools that have a lot of institutional funds and are need blind and also have a lot of full pay kids.

Finally, Chicago has changed a lot in the last year years. All Govt or private pay level data for Chicago based on earlier cohorts is just not representative anymore. They are now attracting richer and more professionally oriented students and these students will have different career trajectories

You're partly correct. Using this recent study published in early 2017 using tax records to track graduates: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/opinion/sunday/americas-great-working-class-colleges.html

"The most comprehensive study of college graduates yet conducted, based on millions of anonymous tax filings and financial-aid records. Published Wednesday, the study tracked students from nearly every college in the country (including those who failed to graduate), measuring their earnings years after they left campus. The paper is the latest in a burst of economic research made possible by the availability of huge data sets and powerful computers."

The median family income of a student from University of Chicago is $134,500. Grads make median $61,700 at age 34.
10% of students from Chicago come from the 1% (families making over $630K)

The median family income of a student from Virginia is $155,500. Grads make median $71,200 at age 34.
8.5% of students at UVA come from the 1% (families making over $630)

In my view, the undergrad population at both schools are very similar in terms of their family's wealth and student outcomes. But, if you're in-state for Virginia, of course a much cheaper investment.
McIntire is over $40K for an in-state student, while Chicago is $78K.

[Anonymous]

If your kids wants to go where fun goes to die, then go to UChicago.