Is U Chicago worth cost over in-state UVA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is crystal clear on this: for the students who get into both but elect to go to the state school, their outcomes are the same.

No its not. Read

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2473238

My interpretation of the study (which is just one study) is not the same as yours.

According to the introduction: "This relation between undergraduate status and postbaccalaureate outcomes is not simply driven by higher ability of those graduates of elite institutions but also holds taking into account family background and individual standardized test scores."

That says a lot. In short, a bright, upper middle class student from an educated family is likely to have similar outcomes in life whether she goes to Chicago or UVA. And this bears out what I've seen in real life. There are plenty of successful UVA grads. There are plenty of unsuccessful Chicago grads. It's all about what *you* do with the resources at hand. I don't doubt that Chicago has amazing recruiting but in many ways that's limited to those who aren't interested in finance or business. There are plenty of UVA alums who go on to top graduate schools and into finance and business.

My vote (and I say this as a double Ivy graduate) is to go to the cheapest school and put the differential towards graduate school or even use it as a nice down payment on the first property after college.

The real financial benefits of going Ivy or other top colleges has always accrued more to the first generation, low income students than the standard upper middle class student. This has long been known.

Read he whole paper. You are wrong. Even after controlling for all kinds of variables including parental education, Tier1 institution students earn more

Weren't there earlier posts proving that UC grads make more than UVA - by approximately $5000 more per year - UC's $65000 vs UVA's $61000?
It seems the ROI for UC just isn't there.

Making more money is not actually everyone’s goal . Lots of business grads making money selling various things upon graduating from college doesn’t mean that the education they received was better.

Those who truly cared about the life of the mind consistent with Chicago's Core program, would have attended St. John's College in Annapolis. These schools are always connected in some way. Yet, St. John's does it in obscurity, never aspiring to be yet another Harvard.

Great Books curriculum is hardly a defining attribute of intellectual engagement. And not a great choice for someone interested in becoming a research scientist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t think that U of C and CalTech gave any aid other than need-based

But great need-based aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is crystal clear on this: for the students who get into both but elect to go to the state school, their outcomes are the same.

No its not. Read

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2473238

My interpretation of the study (which is just one study) is not the same as yours.

According to the introduction: "This relation between undergraduate status and postbaccalaureate outcomes is not simply driven by higher ability of those graduates of elite institutions but also holds taking into account family background and individual standardized test scores."

That says a lot. In short, a bright, upper middle class student from an educated family is likely to have similar outcomes in life whether she goes to Chicago or UVA. And this bears out what I've seen in real life. There are plenty of successful UVA grads. There are plenty of unsuccessful Chicago grads. It's all about what *you* do with the resources at hand. I don't doubt that Chicago has amazing recruiting but in many ways that's limited to those who aren't interested in finance or business. There are plenty of UVA alums who go on to top graduate schools and into finance and business.

My vote (and I say this as a double Ivy graduate) is to go to the cheapest school and put the differential towards graduate school or even use it as a nice down payment on the first property after college.

The real financial benefits of going Ivy or other top colleges has always accrued more to the first generation, low income students than the standard upper middle class student. This has long been known.

Read he whole paper. You are wrong. Even after controlling for all kinds of variables including parental education, Tier1 institution students earn more

Weren't there earlier posts proving that UC grads make more than UVA - by approximately $5000 more per year - UC's $65000 vs UVA's $61000?
It seems the ROI for UC just isn't there.

Making more money is not actually everyone’s goal . Lots of business grads making money selling various things upon graduating from college doesn’t mean that the education they received was better.

Those who truly cared about the life of the mind consistent with Chicago's Core program, would have attended St. John's College in Annapolis. These schools are always connected in some way. Yet, St. John's does it in obscurity, never aspiring to be yet another Harvard.

Great Books curriculum is hardly a defining attribute of intellectual engagement. And not a great choice for someone interested in becoming a research scientist.

You can't be a research scientist with St. John's BA degree, nor with a Chicago BA degree. You need advanced degrees. You'll be surprised what St. John's BA degree can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We got an actual bill from the school, along with our adjusted FA amounts, and the new estimated cost of attendance for a freshman is $78,555.

Lord have mercy. Tuition at UVA is 12K only, 26K with room and board. I have two in in-state schools and one of them is talking about law school. The privates have just gone crazy.

[Anonymous]

DH is a highly placed corporate executive who went to Ivies, both undergrad and for business school. He works for a very large household name company. Most of his coworkers at his level did not go to expensive private colleges, at least for undergrad (some did go to well known business schools). Most went to flagship state universities and were recruited into the corporate world working for companies like Coca Cola for a few years before going for a MBA.

I would not pick Chicago solely in the hopes it would give your child a better shot at a more successful life if the alternative is UVA. UVA is a well known and reputable university that produces thousands of successful graduates. Any financial or employment advantages at Chicago will be going through a very specific type of recruitment track into the financial and consulting sectors and most kids don't do that, and even if you want to, it's not given you'll make it. Many applicants, even at the Ivies, get weeded out by the big firms.

UVA is a perfectly fine school. If money is a factor, go to UVA. It really is no brainer. If money is not a factor and you are appealed by the academic environment at Chicago, then go to Chicago. Just don't expect Chicago to open up that many more doors over UVA and it does depend on what kind of doors you're seeing to break through.

Here's a dirty secret about the top colleges. They all have many unique, individualistic and geeky students who do not go into the finances or law/business/medical schools. They become teachers, they work for nonprofits, they go into the arts. They barely struggle to make it into the upper middle classes. Most are usually happy in their own way. At the same time, the state schools top of of the class will usually end up doing very well. They go into businesses and sales and top graduate schools. If you're looking at Chicago solely as an investment into your child's future financial well being, it most likely won't pay for itself over UVA. If you're looking at Chicago as a great gift to your child, to offer the experience of studying at a fabulous and academically intense university for four years, then that's understandable.

[Anonymous]

“ If you're looking at Chicago as a great gift to your child, to offer the experience of studying at a fabulous and academically intense university for four years, then that's understandable“

I agree with everything PP above has said. That being said: this last statement is why our DC will most likely attend Chicago - as long as we can afford it - it really seems like a great fit for DC’s personality.

[Anonymous]

Military first, then college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Military first, then college.

Well, right, with an early death or an extended ptsd episode due to military service you won’t even have to pay for college - win win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH is a highly placed corporate executive who went to Ivies, both undergrad and for business school. He works for a very large household name company. Most of his coworkers at his level did not go to expensive private colleges, at least for undergrad (some did go to well known business schools). Most went to flagship state universities and were recruited into the corporate world working for companies like Coca Cola for a few years before going for a MBA.

I would not pick Chicago solely in the hopes it would give your child a better shot at a more successful life if the alternative is UVA. UVA is a well known and reputable university that produces thousands of successful graduates. Any financial or employment advantages at Chicago will be going through a very specific type of recruitment track into the financial and consulting sectors and most kids don't do that, and even if you want to, it's not given you'll make it. Many applicants, even at the Ivies, get weeded out by the big firms.

UVA is a perfectly fine school. If money is a factor, go to UVA. It really is no brainer. If money is not a factor and you are appealed by the academic environment at Chicago, then go to Chicago. Just don't expect Chicago to open up that many more doors over UVA and it does depend on what kind of doors you're seeing to break through.

Here's a dirty secret about the top colleges. They all have many unique, individualistic and geeky students who do not go into the finances or law/business/medical schools. They become teachers, they work for nonprofits, they go into the arts. They barely struggle to make it into the upper middle classes. Most are usually happy in their own way. At the same time, the state schools top of of the class will usually end up doing very well. They go into businesses and sales and top graduate schools. If you're looking at Chicago solely as an investment into your child's future financial well being, it most likely won't pay for itself over UVA. If you're looking at Chicago as a great gift to your child, to offer the experience of studying at a fabulous and academically intense university for four years, then that's understandable.

+ 1. Here's something you and your kids can do if you have the time. Drive around and pick a few homes that your DC thinks would be cool to live in. Google the address find the owners' names. Hit up linkedin to see where they went to school and what they do. You'd be surprised at the number of no-name alma maters. Of course some of them may have inherited money, won the lottey etc but pick enough of a sample so this works.

Here's another mantra to keep in mind everytime you have to make a big spending decision - "A fool and his money are soon parted". Helps you make the right decision most of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people ask these kinds of questions, why do they never provide financial details? Genuinely curious.

One it’s a public forum. And two, if OP is rich they’ll get all go to top ranked, you can afford it. If not, a bunch of no brainer go to UVA. Kills debate.

And it's also anonymous so We don't need to know your net worth, just whether you have the money saved or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH is a highly placed corporate executive who went to Ivies, both undergrad and for business school. He works for a very large household name company. Most of his coworkers at his level did not go to expensive private colleges, at least for undergrad (some did go to well known business schools). Most went to flagship state universities and were recruited into the corporate world working for companies like Coca Cola for a few years before going for a MBA.

I would not pick Chicago solely in the hopes it would give your child a better shot at a more successful life if the alternative is UVA. UVA is a well known and reputable university that produces thousands of successful graduates. Any financial or employment advantages at Chicago will be going through a very specific type of recruitment track into the financial and consulting sectors and most kids don't do that, and even if you want to, it's not given you'll make it. Many applicants, even at the Ivies, get weeded out by the big firms.

UVA is a perfectly fine school. If money is a factor, go to UVA. It really is no brainer. If money is not a factor and you are appealed by the academic environment at Chicago, then go to Chicago. Just don't expect Chicago to open up that many more doors over UVA and it does depend on what kind of doors you're seeing to break through.

Here's a dirty secret about the top colleges. They all have many unique, individualistic and geeky students who do not go into the finances or law/business/medical schools. They become teachers, they work for nonprofits, they go into the arts. They barely struggle to make it into the upper middle classes. Most are usually happy in their own way. At the same time, the state schools top of of the class will usually end up doing very well. They go into businesses and sales and top graduate schools. If you're looking at Chicago solely as an investment into your child's future financial well being, it most likely won't pay for itself over UVA. If you're looking at Chicago as a great gift to your child, to offer the experience of studying at a fabulous and academically intense university for four years, then that's understandable.

+ 1. Here's something you and your kids can do if you have the time. Drive around and pick a few homes that your DC thinks would be cool to live in. Google the address find the owners' names. Hit up linkedin to see where they went to school and what they do. You'd be surprised at the number of no-name alma maters. Of course some of them may have inherited money, won the lottey etc but pick enough of a sample so this works.

Here's another mantra to keep in mind everytime you have to make a big spending decision - "A fool and his money are soon parted". Helps you make the right decision most of the time.

+1

Yes. The only valid measure of success is the size of your house. Everyone knows this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got an actual bill from the school, along with our adjusted FA amounts, and the new estimated cost of attendance for a freshman is $78,555.

Lord have mercy. Tuition at UVA is 12K only, 26K with room and board. I have two in in-state schools and one of them is talking about law school. The privates have just gone crazy.

McIntire for in-state student is $40,248 https://sfs.virginia.edu/cost/18-19

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When people ask these kinds of questions, why do they never provide financial details? Genuinely curious.

One it’s a public forum. And two, if OP is rich they’ll get all go to top ranked, you can afford it. If not, a bunch of no brainer go to UVA. Kills debate.

And it's also anonymous so We don't need to know your net worth, just whether you have the money saved or not.

Nah, you really don’t need to know that. And if OP has saved the money, that doesn’t resolve the issue. There’s still the question of whether this is how they want to use the $$ they’ve saved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH is a highly placed corporate executive who went to Ivies, both undergrad and for business school. He works for a very large household name company. Most of his coworkers at his level did not go to expensive private colleges, at least for undergrad (some did go to well known business schools). Most went to flagship state universities and were recruited into the corporate world working for companies like Coca Cola for a few years before going for a MBA.

I would not pick Chicago solely in the hopes it would give your child a better shot at a more successful life if the alternative is UVA. UVA is a well known and reputable university that produces thousands of successful graduates. Any financial or employment advantages at Chicago will be going through a very specific type of recruitment track into the financial and consulting sectors and most kids don't do that, and even if you want to, it's not given you'll make it. Many applicants, even at the Ivies, get weeded out by the big firms.

UVA is a perfectly fine school. If money is a factor, go to UVA. It really is no brainer. If money is not a factor and you are appealed by the academic environment at Chicago, then go to Chicago. Just don't expect Chicago to open up that many more doors over UVA and it does depend on what kind of doors you're seeing to break through.

Here's a dirty secret about the top colleges. They all have many unique, individualistic and geeky students who do not go into the finances or law/business/medical schools. They become teachers, they work for nonprofits, they go into the arts. They barely struggle to make it into the upper middle classes. Most are usually happy in their own way. At the same time, the state schools top of of the class will usually end up doing very well. They go into businesses and sales and top graduate schools. If you're looking at Chicago solely as an investment into your child's future financial well being, it most likely won't pay for itself over UVA. If you're looking at Chicago as a great gift to your child, to offer the experience of studying at a fabulous and academically intense university for four years, then that's understandable.

+ 1. Here's something you and your kids can do if you have the time. Drive around and pick a few homes that your DC thinks would be cool to live in. Google the address find the owners' names. Hit up linkedin to see where they went to school and what they do. You'd be surprised at the number of no-name alma maters. Of course some of them may have inherited money, won the lottey etc but pick enough of a sample so this works.

Here's another mantra to keep in mind everytime you have to make a big spending decision - "A fool and his money are soon parted". Helps you make the right decision most of the time.

We know from college scorecard that UChicago's BA salary peers, give or take $5000 per year, are as follows, among others: Michigan Technological University, California State San-Luis-Obispo, U of Illinois Urbana Champaign, Augusta University, University of Wisconsin Madison, UVA Main Campus, U of Michigan Ann Arbor, among others. Either UChicago fans are overestimating Chicago, underestimating UVA - or both. If UVA has honors college, it's designed to provide smaller classrooms with better access to profs. Honors programs provide other perks: earlier registrations, research opportunities, separate dorms exclusively for honors students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: + 1. Here's something you and your kids can do if you have the time. Drive around and pick a few homes that your DC thinks would be cool to live in. Google the address find the owners' names. Hit up linkedin to see where they went to school and what they do. You'd be surprised at the number of no-name alma maters. Of course some of them may have inherited money, won the lottey etc but pick enough of a sample so this works.

Here's another mantra to keep in mind everytime you have to make a big spending decision - "A fool and his money are soon parted". Helps you make the right decision most of the time.

One, that sounds crazy. Two, boomers to generation Z is apples to oranges. Three, most of the rich in this country were born rich - inheritance & connections.