Split articulation (bussing) for the new BCC Middle School?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:(quote=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are no lily-white schools in MCPS. Not even in Bethesda.

oh please!. See Somerset, Bradley Hills, Westbrook, Wood Acres, Ashburton, Carderock Potomac (except for Asians, but they don't count as minorities, right?) Etc etc etc. Pyle and Whitman. Tip of the iceberg. How about we break up those schools up and bus them out too. Seems only fair. If it's good enough for RHPS then it's good enough for them too. If we are going to make diversity an issue, then make it an issue for all and fix it istead of paying lip service to it by picking on a couple communities and forcing hardship on them the way they have ike CCES RHPS and NCC.

Somerset: 63% white
Bradley Hills: 67% white
Westbrook: 76% white
Wood Acres: 70% white
Ashburton: 48% white
Carderock Springs: 68% white
Potomac: 54% white
Pyle: 73% white
Whitman: 70% white

Only in Montgomery County would schools where more than 1 in 4 students is not white be described as "lily-white". Or maybe the lilies you've seen are different from the lilies I've seen.

I know, I know!. Instead if putting down the number of whites. Why not give us the numbers of African American and Hispanic students? Because those are the numbers that count towards diversity. Not the overacheving Asians. Even better, what we are REALLY talking about is FARMs rates for schools. Socioeconomic diversity. Since you have your finger on the statistics button, let's pull up the FARMS rates for those same schools that you are touting as so diverse and compare them to RHPS and RCF. Seems to me you are afraid the great bussing experiment will be coming to your school soon so you are touting your upper income schools as diverse. Everyone knows the truth. Time for every elementary school to have some skin in the game. Either have more schools bus like RHPS or let the NCC RHPS and CCES people finally have a neighborhood school instead of little kids biased miles away to the next town where their frienships get ripped apart and parents struggle logistically handle how to best deal the conflicts in schedule. Thise are the things that should discussed along with the new middle school.

Parent at one of the schools listed above here -- you'd be surprised the number of HIspanic students (including mine). There are a lot of Spanish-speaking kids at our school. But you'd say they don't count because they aren't FARMS kids (which most aren't, I'm sure, given the low FARMS rate). I'm very sympathetic to you not wanting your kids to be bused. To me, it's just hard on a little kid. Especially kids who take longer to get comfortable and make friends. I think that since there's no evidence that busing is helping anyone (except the school system APPEAR to be more egalitarian), we should stop making these kids go through this nonsense.
It's all just BS so MCPS can say they're closing the achievement gap. Like when the numbers at an underperforming school look better because there's a magnet program in there. Or they add an enrichment program for "gifted" kids, and then the only kids who are in it are the few kids in the school whose parents are professionals anyway. It's just smoke and mirrors. It would take a LOT of resources that MCPS doesn't have to actually close the achievement gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do I always get the feeling that when people plant their flag in the busing camp it is code for " I spent my money so I didn't have to live around the blacks, and I object you using busing to mix them into my kid's life".

I used to think that too, and I'm sure that's some of it, but don't overlook the real hassles that the busing and split articulation causes for parents of kids from Chevy Chase and North Chevy Chase whose kids are sent to RHES for K-2 and then back to neighborhood schools for 3-6. RHES is a lovely environment and very well-run, but it's a PITA to have the split. My friend with 2 kids at Woodacres can do a single dropoff and pickup; she can be there for the Halloween parade and other activities where she sees both kids; she's only got to try to be a volunteer or active PTA member at 1 school. And yes, her kids don't have to deal w/ a bus ride that ranges from 15 mins to an hour (and is rarely the same each day.)

Whereas I have same-aged kids at RHES and one of the CCs. I can't pick up the younger one from school by car ever because no one would be home to let the older one into the house. I have to choose which school I visit for various holidays and activities. I only volunteer episodically at one school and I make a passing effort at doing some PTA stuff at the other (I work FT, so this is the best I got.) And while my younger kid loves the bus, the fact that it's been in several accidents this year alone is not a huge plus in my book nor is the fact that it takes me forever to get to RHES for afterschool activity pickups. And it sucks when the kids have to separate at 3rd grade; it so happened that most of my older kid's friends were zoned for the other CC. None of those things would be an issue if Chevy Chase and North Chevy Chase were permitted K-5 neighborhood schools like almost all the other elementaries in MCPS.

So after this experience I'd much prefer a neighborhood school for K-5 and it has nothing to do with skin color or socioeconomic status. But please, go ahead, assume that I must be a racist snob. And btw no one in SS or "middle class" Chevy Chase (where is that exactly?) is responsible for preventing the PP's radical reengineering of MCPS from moving forward. The reason MCPS will never implement a plan that opens all schools up to lotteries is that it's totally unworkable in a system of this size.

Thank you so much for this post!. You are dead on. Another RHPS parent here and this is our experience exactly. From the heartbreak of having to choose which Halloween/Valentine party to attend and crushing your one of your children's feelings to the multiple accidents my child's bus has been in this year. We parents are at the point where we suck in our breath with worry now when the bus is late.

Or the 45 minute to hour long bus ride that gave my son motion sickness every day so I started driving to a different stop further from my house so he would spend less time on the bus to RHPS. No one else in the Bethesda area deals with this split elementary school headache. If you are going to do it to the NCC/CCES kids then split up all those lily white schools elsewhere in Bethesda and bus everyone. The diversity burden shouldn't fall disproportionately on two schools.

I like RHPS for the most part. My kids have made wonderful diverse friends but I would not say the school is even that diverse. It is actually disappointing it isn'tmore so for all the trouble we go through. Which makes it even more unfair that RHPS kids are bussed away from their neighborhoods during the K-2 years. Then the kids make friends and are torn away from them 3-6. I will be ticked if they don't pull together NCC and CCES for middle school so they can reunited. It will be insult to injury. Bus Westbrook to the new middle and let them feel the bussing pain. I can walk to CCES from my house just like they can walk to Westland. Didn't stop Montco from bussing our kids. Let RCF be bussed to Westland so they can feel the pain too. Give the NCC CCES RHPS parents a break. We've paid our dues.

Of broken friendships, choosing between your children, unsafe bussing and a million other cons of bussing your littlest kids to a school 10 miles away to another town.

Did you not know of the school splits when you bought your house?

Assuming so, just stop it already.

Where my house us located has nothing to do with the fact that what Montco has being doing to these communities for decades is just wrong. They need to put their money where mouth is and start bussing everwhere for more desirable FARMS rates per school. But that's what really scares you but doesn't bother ms e at all because we live it already. You don't want it in your neighborhood. So I won't stop it. The new middle school may give the RHPS community a chance to right the ship. The problem is not that I am talking about it to much but that the,RHPS community has not fought harder for what is right for their children. More people need to speak up, not less. Sorry if that makes you scared and uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Where my house us located has nothing to do with the fact that what Montco has being doing to these communities for decades is just wrong. They need to put their money where mouth is and start bussing everwhere for more desirable FARMS rates per school. But that's what really scares you but doesn't bother ms e at all because we live it already. You don't want it in your neighborhood. So I won't stop it. The new middle school may give the RHPS community a chance to right the ship. The problem is not that I am talking about it to much but that the,RHPS community has not fought harder for what is right for their children. More people need to speak up, not less. Sorry if that makes you scared and uncomfortable.

I wonder how much you know about the history of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do I always get the feeling that when people plant their flag in the busing camp it is code for " I spent my money so I didn't have to live around the blacks, and I object you using busing to mix them into my kid's life".

I used to think that too, and I'm sure that's some of it, but don't overlook the real hassles that the busing and split articulation causes for parents of kids from Chevy Chase and North Chevy Chase whose kids are sent to RHES for K-2 and then back to neighborhood schools for 3-6. RHES is a lovely environment and very well-run, but it's a PITA to have the split. My friend with 2 kids at Woodacres can do a single dropoff and pickup; she can be there for the Halloween parade and other activities where she sees both kids; she's only got to try to be a volunteer or active PTA member at 1 school. And yes, her kids don't have to deal w/ a bus ride that ranges from 15 mins to an hour (and is rarely the same each day.)

Whereas I have same-aged kids at RHES and one of the CCs. I can't pick up the younger one from school by car ever because no one would be home to let the older one into the house. I have to choose which school I visit for various holidays and activities. I only volunteer episodically at one school and I make a passing effort at doing some PTA stuff at the other (I work FT, so this is the best I got.) And while my younger kid loves the bus, the fact that it's been in several accidents this year alone is not a huge plus in my book nor is the fact that it takes me forever to get to RHES for afterschool activity pickups. And it sucks when the kids have to separate at 3rd grade; it so happened that most of my older kid's friends were zoned for the other CC. None of those things would be an issue if Chevy Chase and North Chevy Chase were permitted K-5 neighborhood schools like almost all the other elementaries in MCPS.

So after this experience I'd much prefer a neighborhood school for K-5 and it has nothing to do with skin color or socioeconomic status. But please, go ahead, assume that I must be a racist snob. And btw no one in SS or "middle class" Chevy Chase (where is that exactly?) is responsible for preventing the PP's radical reengineering of MCPS from moving forward. The reason MCPS will never implement a plan that opens all schools up to lotteries is that it's totally unworkable in a system of this size.

Thank you so much for this post!. You are dead on. Another RHPS parent here and this is our experience exactly. From the heartbreak of having to choose which Halloween/Valentine party to attend and crushing your one of your children's feelings to the multiple accidents my child's bus has been in this year. We parents are at the point where we suck in our breath with worry now when the bus is late.

Or the 45 minute to hour long bus ride that gave my son motion sickness every day so I started driving to a different stop further from my house so he would spend less time on the bus to RHPS. No one else in the Bethesda area deals with this split elementary school headache. If you are going to do it to the NCC/CCES kids then split up all those lily white schools elsewhere in Bethesda and bus everyone. The diversity burden shouldn't fall disproportionately on two schools.

I like RHPS for the most part. My kids have made wonderful diverse friends but I would not say the school is even that diverse. It is actually disappointing it isn'tmore so for all the trouble we go through. Which makes it even more unfair that RHPS kids are bussed away from their neighborhoods during the K-2 years. Then the kids make friends and are torn away from them 3-6. I will be ticked if they don't pull together NCC and CCES for middle school so they can reunited. It will be insult to injury. Bus Westbrook to the new middle and let them feel the bussing pain. I can walk to CCES from my house just like they can walk to Westland. Didn't stop Montco from bussing our kids. Let RCF be bussed to Westland so they can feel the pain too. Give the NCC CCES RHPS parents a break. We've paid our dues.

Of broken friendships, choosing between your children, unsafe bussing and a million other cons of bussing your littlest kids to a school 10 miles away to another town.

Did you not know of the school splits when you bought your house?

Assuming so, just stop it already.

Where my house us located has nothing to do with the fact that what Montco has being doing to these communities for decades is just wrong. They need to put their money where mouth is and start bussing everwhere for more desirable FARMS rates per school. But that's what really scares you but doesn't bother ms e at all because we live it already. You don't want it in your neighborhood. So I won't stop it. The new middle school may give the RHPS community a chance to right the ship. The problem is not that I am talking about it to much but that the,RHPS community has not fought harder for what is right for their children. More people need to speak up, not less. Sorry if that makes you scared and uncomfortable.

Not the PP you're responding to, but your argument boils down to this: "Busing really sucks and shouldn't happen. But since it's happening to my kids I want it to happen to all your kids too." That doesn't really make any sense. It's more just seeking to punish other people who had nothing to do with the thing you don't like happening to you. You're wrong about our motives, too. I couldn't care less if a bunch more FARMS kids showed up in my kid's low-FARMS school. I'd be happy about it. I just don't want to have my kid bused, for the same reasons you don't like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Where my house us located has nothing to do with the fact that what Montco has being doing to these communities for decades is just wrong. They need to put their money where mouth is and start bussing everwhere for more desirable FARMS rates per school. But that's what really scares you but doesn't bother ms e at all because we live it already. You don't want it in your neighborhood. So I won't stop it. The new middle school may give the RHPS community a chance to right the ship. The problem is not that I am talking about it to much but that the,RHPS community has not fought harder for what is right for their children. More people need to speak up, not less. Sorry if that makes you scared and uncomfortable.

I wonder how much you know about the history of it.

I know all about the history of it. It was desperately needed. Now is not then. The houses near the school were once considered disadvantaged . Now not nearly as much. Not even close. Houses can go for $400,000. The original intent doesn't exist. But the bussing remains. Again, too late for my kids. I only want them to keep their same friends in middle school by at least keeping NCC and CCES together. RHPS is our community and I love it. But I do not think the bussing is fair. They love their friends and deserve to keep them. The parents who remain should fight this battle. Or the county needs to expand bussing but one community should not shoulder it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think there is a HUGE problem on this thread with people associating diversity in the school simply with race. The diversity that is needed is socioeconomic, the FARMS rate is largely comprised of black and hispanic children, but not every child of color is below the poverty line. The financially well off hispanic diplomat's child is not going to require the same degree of resources as the immigrant ESOL below the poverty line child.

But race/ethnicity and socioeconomic status are highly correlated in Montgomery County, as you way. Maybe somewhat less so in Bethesda, where almost everybody is affluent.

If you look at the Westland Middle School stats. FARMS - 12.6 percent, blacks are 10.6 percent of the student population, black FARMS are 5.3, hispanics are 15.8 of the student population and hispanic FARMS are 5.9. I don't see that high of a correlation between race and poverty rate at Westland. Half or a third are not a majority, looking at the feeder schools the same data holds.

I still don't see it as much of a racial issue as a socioeconomic issue, it has to be about balancing the FARMS rate, this is the population that needs the most in the way of financial resources and to be fair that burden needs to be shared by all the schools in the BCC cluster.

The schools that are closer to Mass Ave can't hide behind their affluent international students who have large amounts of disposable income and private-hire tutors and claim racial diversity. That's a joke, and everyone knows it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If you look at the Westland Middle School stats. FARMS - 12.6 percent, blacks are 10.6 percent of the student population, black FARMS are 5.3, hispanics are 15.8 of the student population and hispanic FARMS are 5.9. I don't see that high of a correlation between race and poverty rate at Westland. Half or a third are not a majority, looking at the feeder schools the same data holds.

There's not much correlation between race/ethnicity and poverty at Westland because there's not much poverty at Westland to begin with. But there is correlation. Half of the black students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Over one third of Hispanic students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Basically no white or Asian students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Not all black or Hispanic students at Westland are poor, but all of the poor students at Westland are black or Hispanic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think there is a HUGE problem on this thread with people associating diversity in the school simply with race. The diversity that is needed is socioeconomic, the FARMS rate is largely comprised of black and hispanic children, but not every child of color is below the poverty line. The financially well off hispanic diplomat's child is not going to require the same degree of resources as the immigrant ESOL below the poverty line child.

But race/ethnicity and socioeconomic status are highly correlated in Montgomery County, as you way. Maybe somewhat less so in Bethesda, where almost everybody is affluent.

If you look at the Westland Middle School stats. FARMS - 12.6 percent, blacks are 10.6 percent of the student population, black FARMS are 5.3, hispanics are 15.8 of the student population and hispanic FARMS are 5.9. I don't see that high of a correlation between race and poverty rate at Westland. Half or a third are not a majority, looking at the feeder schools the same data holds.

I still don't see it as much of a racial issue as a socioeconomic issue, it has to be about balancing the FARMS rate, this is the population that needs the most in the way of financial resources and to be fair that burden needs to be shared by all the schools in the BCC cluster.

The schools that are closer to Mass Ave can't hide behind their affluent international students who have large amounts of disposable income and private-hire tutors and claim racial diversity. That's a joke, and everyone knows it.

Not all the blacks and Hispanics at those schools are "affluent international students", but thanks for the assumptions. Guess we don't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you look at the Westland Middle School stats. FARMS - 12.6 percent, blacks are 10.6 percent of the student population, black FARMS are 5.3, hispanics are 15.8 of the student population and hispanic FARMS are 5.9. I don't see that high of a correlation between race and poverty rate at Westland. Half or a third are not a majority, looking at the feeder schools the same data holds.

There's not much correlation between race/ethnicity and poverty at Westland because there's not much poverty at Westland to begin with. But there is correlation. Half of the black students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Over one third of Hispanic students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Basically no white or Asian students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Not all black or Hispanic students at Westland are poor, but all of the poor students at Westland are black or Hispanic.

That is because they are shipped from silver spring, you don't live near westland if you're poor. There are hardly any Black kids or non-embassy Hispanic outside of the concentration of Apartments around RHES. If RHES wants a neighborhood school so bad send them to the downcounty consortium and let them pick where they go. .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you look at the Westland Middle School stats. FARMS - 12.6 percent, blacks are 10.6 percent of the student population, black FARMS are 5.3, hispanics are 15.8 of the student population and hispanic FARMS are 5.9. I don't see that high of a correlation between race and poverty rate at Westland. Half or a third are not a majority, looking at the feeder schools the same data holds.

There's not much correlation between race/ethnicity and poverty at Westland because there's not much poverty at Westland to begin with. But there is correlation. Half of the black students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Over one third of Hispanic students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Basically no white or Asian students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Not all black or Hispanic students at Westland are poor, but all of the poor students at Westland are black or Hispanic.

That is because they are shipped from silver spring, you don't live near westland if you're poor. There are hardly any Black kids or non-embassy Hispanic outside of the concentration of Apartments around RHES. If RHES wants a neighborhood school so bad send them to the downcounty consortium and let them pick where they go. .

But BCC is by far the closest HS to RHES (3.3 miles vs. 5.3 to Einstein) and is, in fact closer to BCC than Westmoreland Hills (3.5 miles)

[Anonymous]

Why do all schools have to have poor kids? Why cant a nice corner of the county simply keep to their own? Ok so town boundaries don't have to be respected so does that mean we can ignore county boundaries too? How about sending some of the really poor PG kids to Rosemary Hills to give them a leg up? It is all about and better for the kids right? Or does resource grabs only work in one direction for the disenfranchised?

Why are people entitled to move to a nickel area and expect dime piers in the better neighborhood? You guys are simply going down the rabbit hole DC went down and their "best" High School (Wilson) has a 25% dropout rate. Which pretty much breaks down the whole the poor kids do better when dropped into rich schools. All you really end up with is administrations that scramble to keep the troublemakers penned up and away from the rich kids. Even Blair fluffs the numbers by importing the best and brightest and the regular kids might never even meet a magnate kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you look at the Westland Middle School stats. FARMS - 12.6 percent, blacks are 10.6 percent of the student population, black FARMS are 5.3, hispanics are 15.8 of the student population and hispanic FARMS are 5.9. I don't see that high of a correlation between race and poverty rate at Westland. Half or a third are not a majority, looking at the feeder schools the same data holds.

There's not much correlation between race/ethnicity and poverty at Westland because there's not much poverty at Westland to begin with. But there is correlation. Half of the black students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Over one third of Hispanic students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Basically no white or Asian students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Not all black or Hispanic students at Westland are poor, but all of the poor students at Westland are black or Hispanic.

That is because they are shipped from silver spring, you don't live near westland if you're poor. There are hardly any Black kids or non-embassy Hispanic outside of the concentration of Apartments around RHES. If RHES wants a neighborhood school so bad send them to the downcounty consortium and let them pick where they go. .

But BCC is by far the closest HS to RHES (3.3 miles vs. 5.3 to Einstein) and is, in fact closer to BCC than Westmoreland Hills (3.5 miles)

it is in a different town? Why not stick to your own?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you look at the Westland Middle School stats. FARMS - 12.6 percent, blacks are 10.6 percent of the student population, black FARMS are 5.3, hispanics are 15.8 of the student population and hispanic FARMS are 5.9. I don't see that high of a correlation between race and poverty rate at Westland. Half or a third are not a majority, looking at the feeder schools the same data holds.

There's not much correlation between race/ethnicity and poverty at Westland because there's not much poverty at Westland to begin with. But there is correlation. Half of the black students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Over one third of Hispanic students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Basically no white or Asian students at Westland qualify for FARMS. Not all black or Hispanic students at Westland are poor, but all of the poor students at Westland are black or Hispanic.

That is because they are shipped from silver spring, you don't live near westland if you're poor. There are hardly any Black kids or non-embassy Hispanic outside of the concentration of Apartments around RHES. If RHES wants a neighborhood school so bad send them to the downcounty consortium and let them pick where they go. .

But BCC is by far the closest HS to RHES (3.3 miles vs. 5.3 to Einstein) and is, in fact closer to BCC than Westmoreland Hills (3.5 miles)

it is in a different town? Why not stick to your own?

And we are talking about the middle school anyway. RHES couldn't be any farther from Westland without being upcounty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do all schools have to have poor kids? Why cant a nice corner of the county simply keep to their own? Ok so town boundaries don't have to be respected so does that mean we can ignore county boundaries too? How about sending some of the really poor PG kids to Rosemary Hills to give them a leg up? It is all about and better for the kids right? Or does resource grabs only work in one direction for the disenfranchised?

Why are people entitled to move to a nickel area and expect dime piers in the better neighborhood? You guys are simply going down the rabbit hole DC went down and their "best" High School (Wilson) has a 25% dropout rate. Which pretty much breaks down the whole the poor kids do better when dropped into rich schools. All you really end up with is administrations that scramble to keep the troublemakers penned up and away from the rich kids. Even Blair fluffs the numbers by importing the best and brightest and the regular kids might never even meet a magnate kid.

Town boundaries are not relevant in a county-based school system. You betray the fact that you see black kids in Montgomery County as just as little a part of your community as kids in PG county. Plus, you spelled magnet wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do all schools have to have poor kids? Why cant a nice corner of the county simply keep to their own? Ok so town boundaries don't have to be respected so does that mean we can ignore county boundaries too? How about sending some of the really poor PG kids to Rosemary Hills to give them a leg up? It is all about and better for the kids right? Or does resource grabs only work in one direction for the disenfranchised?

Why are people entitled to move to a nickel area and expect dime piers in the better neighborhood? You guys are simply going down the rabbit hole DC went down and their "best" High School (Wilson) has a 25% dropout rate. Which pretty much breaks down the whole the poor kids do better when dropped into rich schools. All you really end up with is administrations that scramble to keep the troublemakers penned up and away from the rich kids. Even Blair fluffs the numbers by importing the best and brightest and the regular kids might never even meet a magnate kid.

Because the general assumption is that everybody has a right to a good public education, not just people whose parents can afford to buy in expensive neighborhoods.