Homogeneity allows for more progressive policy. T/F?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn’t OP’s query be:

Racism prevents people from accepting more progressive policy: T/F?

No. Nazis had "progressive" policies like healthcare for all, etc.. just their own.

But I disagree with OP's supposition regardless. If it was true, you'd see places like WY and WV have a lot of progessive policies like healthcare for all in their states. But they don't. It's more about culture than about race. American individualism does not allow for progressive policies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think so. People are more likely to share resources with their own "tribe".

That's true for racists.

Don't be fooled people. "Homogeneity" is a more palatable way of pushing racial separatism. The point of this thread is to assume racism is a given and then convince you that it's the fastest way for you to achieve progressive goals. It's not. Conquering racism is the best way to unleash economic growth and social change.

Canada is more diverse than the US AND more progressive.

This has nothing to do with racism. Race is a complete non-factor if there is cultural cohesion.

Canada is obsessive about cultural cohesion. It’s immigration system is designed to ensure they bring in educated people, who speak English and have demonstrated a propensity for Canadian values. Also, they monitor the mix of immigrants they bring in to ensure no one country or culture starts becoming a majority-minority. The “socialist” countries are ruthlessly pragmatic.

Oh and here come the excuses! They are "ruthless" in accepting the refugees that we keep refusing, making them the top refugee resettler in the world, despite being 1/10 of our size. And the craftily let people in from so many countries that no one group dominates them. Those evil bastards! And because of that, 21% of their population is foreign born.

And the real insidious part of it all? They are "exploiting" the increase in young workers to pay for all of these social programs that are hard to afford due to the number of baby boomers. The depth of the conspiracy is unbelievable.

/s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A question for progressives:

In general, democrats/liberals in the US support more immigration, amnesty of those here illegally, and other policies that support heterogeneity.

However progressive economic policies seem to only flourish within homogeneity.

Which is more important to progressives? The former or the later?

I already had my own opinions on this but this article made me think of it again today:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/385035/homogeneity-their-strength-kevin-d-williamson

I have voted D in all elections for full disclosure.

Liberals/SWPL's act the same 'white flightish' ways that caused de-urbanization as well - look at white people commenting regarding cupertino, tj, and other schools if too many asians come in.

The same Kevin Williamson who suggested hanging as a criminal punishment for abortion? Think I'll pass on any of his "hot" takes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think so. People are more likely to share resources with their own "tribe".

That's true for racists.

Don't be fooled people. "Homogeneity" is a more palatable way of pushing racial separatism. The point of this thread is to assume racism is a given and then convince you that it's the fastest way for you to achieve progressive goals. It's not. Conquering racism is the best way to unleash economic growth and social change.

Canada is more diverse than the US AND more progressive.

This has nothing to do with racism. Race is a complete non-factor if there is cultural cohesion.

Canada is obsessive about cultural cohesion. It’s immigration system is designed to ensure they bring in educated people, who speak English and have demonstrated a propensity for Canadian values. Also, they monitor the mix of immigrants they bring in to ensure no one country or culture starts becoming a majority-minority. The “socialist” countries are ruthlessly pragmatic.

Oh and here come the excuses! They are "ruthless" in accepting the refugees that we keep refusing, making them the top refugee resettler in the world, despite being 1/10 of our size. And the craftily let people in from so many countries that no one group dominates them. Those evil bastards! And because of that, 21% of their population is foreign born.

And the real insidious part of it all? They are "exploiting" the increase in young workers to pay for all of these social programs that are hard to afford due to the number of baby boomers. The depth of the conspiracy is unbelievable.

/s

What conspiracy moron? They accepted 20k refugees last year, while 1M immigrants illegally crossed the US southern border. As for their immigration policy it’s there for anyone literate enough to find and read.

[Anonymous]

True. Creating and supporting a large social safety net (taxes) means getting everyone’s values to align. People are more likely to conform and share values if they have a shared history and heritage.

Without some agreement in a society that conformity is beneficial and without a shared value structure, I don’t see how you get high taxes and a strong social safety net.

The US is a country that was literally formed with states on very different pages economically (agriculture and slavery vs industrial) and has a relatively weak federal government as a result. See als, the civil war. We’ve never moved past that. It is much more each state does its own thing than most countries. A weak federal government and people who have fundamentally different world views is going to make socialist policies a heavy lift.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:19th century colonization practices were very different than those of the Roman era. They also, to be clear, varied amongst themselves. To disregard the impact such recent practices had is foolish in my opinion. For instance, the Belgians basically created the Tutsi/Hutu mess in Rwanda and the sheer barely comprehensible brutality of what they did in DROC goes a long way to explaining what is happening today. Those are just two small examples. Modern colonization destroyed local institutions, erased history, promoted a culture of wealth extraction (that is mirrored to this day), and incentivized underlying distinctions that increased the internal othering dynamic.

Whatever Belgians did to Rwandans two hundred years ago was essentially pleasant tourism compared to what Americans did to Vietnam just 50 years ago.

Yet Vietnam thrives today.

Rwanda is thriving, too, thanks to China — the same country that is helping Vietnam thrive.

As fir your other comment: go back 60 years and see what France did to Vietnam.

[Anonymous]

Good thread on this here:

[Anonymous]

And here:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
While this is true to some degree, don't make assumptions.

I grew up with many Vietnamese children who were refugees. They came here in the mid/early 80s. Their parents were not educated. You have to be kidding. That country was still recovering from colonization and war in the 80s.

I came here from a different Asian country. My parents are uneducated (finished ES), and can't speak English. I have a degree and make six figures. While not all of my siblings are as "successful" as I am, none of them acted out in class.

IMO, it's cultural. Their is a deep respect for adults and teachers in many of the Asian cultures. Even if you don't like school, that cultural belief is so ingrained in your psyche that you wouldn't act out in class because it's "shameful".

The school I went to also had many African and Hispanic Americans, and real gang bangers. Some of the Vietnamese kids were also in " gangs", but they kept a low profile in school. They may have ditched classes but they didn't act out in class. The kids who acted out in class were mostly black kids. IMO, they mimic their parents attitudes. I saw these students get into fist fights with the teachers.

That's not to say that all Black students are like this, of course not. The school had a largish black population, and the majority of the students didn't act out in class. But the handful who did were always the black kids. That's probably in part due to statistics, too. But, this is just what I observed growing up surrounded by all different races.

UMC Asian-American (first-generation), and this is entirely BS. If respect etc were such a big deal, why is there so much classism in Asia? Why are there entrenched rich/poor families and castes and classes in Asia? Because everyone always wants/needs someone else to put down. Asian-Americans have been leveraged as the "model minority" who are "better" than Black Americans but never truly equal to white Americans. At some point, Asian-Americans were complicit in this, though who can blame us for choosing not to experience the abuse that Black Americans do?

Most of the Black American people and families I know are among the most respectful and disciplined people I know. That's because I'm UMC...and to become a Black UMC American, you need to be at least 3x as disciplined as any other race or ethnicity. Poor Black kids act out because, like everyone else, if you are deprived of hope and stability, you act out. Not because they are culturally deficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
While this is true to some degree, don't make assumptions.

I grew up with many Vietnamese children who were refugees. They came here in the mid/early 80s. Their parents were not educated. You have to be kidding. That country was still recovering from colonization and war in the 80s.

I came here from a different Asian country. My parents are uneducated (finished ES), and can't speak English. I have a degree and make six figures. While not all of my siblings are as "successful" as I am, none of them acted out in class.

IMO, it's cultural. Their is a deep respect for adults and teachers in many of the Asian cultures. Even if you don't like school, that cultural belief is so ingrained in your psyche that you wouldn't act out in class because it's "shameful".

The school I went to also had many African and Hispanic Americans, and real gang bangers. Some of the Vietnamese kids were also in " gangs", but they kept a low profile in school. They may have ditched classes but they didn't act out in class. The kids who acted out in class were mostly black kids. IMO, they mimic their parents attitudes. I saw these students get into fist fights with the teachers.

That's not to say that all Black students are like this, of course not. The school had a largish black population, and the majority of the students didn't act out in class. But the handful who did were always the black kids. That's probably in part due to statistics, too. But, this is just what I observed growing up surrounded by all different races.

UMC Asian-American (first-generation), and this is entirely BS. If respect etc were such a big deal, why is there so much classism in Asia? Why are there entrenched rich/poor families and castes and classes in Asia? Because everyone always wants/needs someone else to put down. Asian-Americans have been leveraged as the "model minority" who are "better" than Black Americans but never truly equal to white Americans. At some point, Asian-Americans were complicit in this, though who can blame us for choosing not to experience the abuse that Black Americans do?

Most of the Black American people and families I know are among the most respectful and disciplined people I know. That's because I'm UMC...and to become a Black UMC American, you need to be at least 3x as disciplined as any other race or ethnicity. Poor Black kids act out because, like everyone else, if you are deprived of hope and stability, you act out. Not because they are culturally deficient.

I was a poor kid who acted out. I am a felon. Many of my childhood friends became habitual criminals.

I promise that culture is far stronger than you believe. The ones who embraced the gangsta rap version of hip hop culture got trapped in a cycle of bad decisions. Other friends who were abused and neglected still had problems but if they rejected the thug lifestyle things generally worked out better over the long term.

Race doesn’t determine success as much as culture does. Race /= culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:True. Creating and supporting a large social safety net (taxes) means getting everyone’s values to align. People are more likely to conform and share values if they have a shared history and heritage.

Without some agreement in a society that conformity is beneficial and without a shared value structure, I don’t see how you get high taxes and a strong social safety net.

The US is a country that was literally formed with states on very different pages economically (agriculture and slavery vs industrial) and has a relatively weak federal government as a result. See als, the civil war. We’ve never moved past that. It is much more each state does its own thing than most countries. A weak federal government and people who have fundamentally different world views is going to make socialist policies a heavy lift.

what you stated has already been debunked.

[Anonymous]

OP's use of "SWPL" makes me think he isn't a Democrat, and you're all responding to bait. That term is mostly used within the far-right/far-right adjacent online scene. Some anti-woke left sorts use it, but not nearly to the same tired frequency the former does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
While this is true to some degree, don't make assumptions.

I grew up with many Vietnamese children who were refugees. They came here in the mid/early 80s. Their parents were not educated. You have to be kidding. That country was still recovering from colonization and war in the 80s.

I came here from a different Asian country. My parents are uneducated (finished ES), and can't speak English. I have a degree and make six figures. While not all of my siblings are as "successful" as I am, none of them acted out in class.

IMO, it's cultural. Their is a deep respect for adults and teachers in many of the Asian cultures. Even if you don't like school, that cultural belief is so ingrained in your psyche that you wouldn't act out in class because it's "shameful".

The school I went to also had many African and Hispanic Americans, and real gang bangers. Some of the Vietnamese kids were also in " gangs", but they kept a low profile in school. They may have ditched classes but they didn't act out in class. The kids who acted out in class were mostly black kids. IMO, they mimic their parents attitudes. I saw these students get into fist fights with the teachers.

That's not to say that all Black students are like this, of course not. The school had a largish black population, and the majority of the students didn't act out in class. But the handful who did were always the black kids. That's probably in part due to statistics, too. But, this is just what I observed growing up surrounded by all different races.

UMC Asian-American (first-generation), and this is entirely BS. If respect etc were such a big deal, why is there so much classism in Asia? Why are there entrenched rich/poor families and castes and classes in Asia? Because everyone always wants/needs someone else to put down. Asian-Americans have been leveraged as the "model minority" who are "better" than Black Americans but never truly equal to white Americans. At some point, Asian-Americans were complicit in this, though who can blame us for choosing not to experience the abuse that Black Americans do?

Most of the Black American people and families I know are among the most respectful and disciplined people I know. That's because I'm UMC...and to become a Black UMC American, you need to be at least 3x as disciplined as any other race or ethnicity. Poor Black kids act out because, like everyone else, if you are deprived of hope and stability, you act out. Not because they are culturally deficient.

Do you have reading comprehension issues? What does "respect for teachers" have to do with classism? Yes, there is classism in all cultures to some degree or another. And in most Asian countries, teachers are well respected.

Yes, of course, there are disciplined and well behaved black children. I stated that, as well.

Readng comprehension failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
While this is true to some degree, don't make assumptions.

I grew up with many Vietnamese children who were refugees. They came here in the mid/early 80s. Their parents were not educated. You have to be kidding. That country was still recovering from colonization and war in the 80s.

I came here from a different Asian country. My parents are uneducated (finished ES), and can't speak English. I have a degree and make six figures. While not all of my siblings are as "successful" as I am, none of them acted out in class.

IMO, it's cultural. Their is a deep respect for adults and teachers in many of the Asian cultures. Even if you don't like school, that cultural belief is so ingrained in your psyche that you wouldn't act out in class because it's "shameful".

The school I went to also had many African and Hispanic Americans, and real gang bangers. Some of the Vietnamese kids were also in " gangs", but they kept a low profile in school. They may have ditched classes but they didn't act out in class. The kids who acted out in class were mostly black kids. IMO, they mimic their parents attitudes. I saw these students get into fist fights with the teachers.

That's not to say that all Black students are like this, of course not. The school had a largish black population, and the majority of the students didn't act out in class. But the handful who did were always the black kids. That's probably in part due to statistics, too. But, this is just what I observed growing up surrounded by all different races.

UMC Asian-American (first-generation), and this is entirely BS. If respect etc were such a big deal, why is there so much classism in Asia? Why are there entrenched rich/poor families and castes and classes in Asia? Because everyone always wants/needs someone else to put down. Asian-Americans have been leveraged as the "model minority" who are "better" than Black Americans but never truly equal to white Americans. At some point, Asian-Americans were complicit in this, though who can blame us for choosing not to experience the abuse that Black Americans do?

Most of the Black American people and families I know are among the most respectful and disciplined people I know. That's because I'm UMC...and to become a Black UMC American, you need to be at least 3x as disciplined as any other race or ethnicity. Poor Black kids act out because, like everyone else, if you are deprived of hope and stability, you act out. Not because they are culturally deficient.

I was a poor kid who acted out. I am a felon. Many of my childhood friends became habitual criminals.

I promise that culture is far stronger than you believe. The ones who embraced the gangsta rap version of hip hop culture got trapped in a cycle of bad decisions. Other friends who were abused and neglected still had problems but if they rejected the thug lifestyle things generally worked out better over the long term.

Race doesn’t determine success as much as culture does. Race /= culture.

I'm the first ^PP, and I agree with you.

Cultural influence, or subculture influence, has a huge impact on how you turn out. That's why they say having a good peer group is so important.

The black kids who did not fall into the gangster culture did well for themselves, same for those Vietnamese immigrant students, same for any kid, even a white real American kid.

But to say that a Vietnmese immigrant child will fair better because their parents are more likely to be educated is BS. Does this person not know what happened to an entire generation of Vietnamese people, especially the educated class? The kids of that generation are the people I went to school with. Their parents were not educated, and neither were mine, and neither were any of my many aunts and uncles who immigrated here. Yet, most of us did not act out in class, even as not all of us went on to become "successful".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
While this is true to some degree, don't make assumptions.

I grew up with many Vietnamese children who were refugees. They came here in the mid/early 80s. Their parents were not educated. You have to be kidding. That country was still recovering from colonization and war in the 80s.

I came here from a different Asian country. My parents are uneducated (finished ES), and can't speak English. I have a degree and make six figures. While not all of my siblings are as "successful" as I am, none of them acted out in class.

IMO, it's cultural. Their is a deep respect for adults and teachers in many of the Asian cultures. Even if you don't like school, that cultural belief is so ingrained in your psyche that you wouldn't act out in class because it's "shameful".

The school I went to also had many African and Hispanic Americans, and real gang bangers. Some of the Vietnamese kids were also in " gangs", but they kept a low profile in school. They may have ditched classes but they didn't act out in class. The kids who acted out in class were mostly black kids. IMO, they mimic their parents attitudes. I saw these students get into fist fights with the teachers.

That's not to say that all Black students are like this, of course not. The school had a largish black population, and the majority of the students didn't act out in class. But the handful who did were always the black kids. That's probably in part due to statistics, too. But, this is just what I observed growing up surrounded by all different races.

UMC Asian-American (first-generation), and this is entirely BS. If respect etc were such a big deal, why is there so much classism in Asia? Why are there entrenched rich/poor families and castes and classes in Asia? Because everyone always wants/needs someone else to put down. Asian-Americans have been leveraged as the "model minority" who are "better" than Black Americans but never truly equal to white Americans. At some point, Asian-Americans were complicit in this, though who can blame us for choosing not to experience the abuse that Black Americans do?

Most of the Black American people and families I know are among the most respectful and disciplined people I know. That's because I'm UMC...and to become a Black UMC American, you need to be at least 3x as disciplined as any other race or ethnicity. Poor Black kids act out because, like everyone else, if you are deprived of hope and stability, you act out. Not because they are culturally deficient.

I was a poor kid who acted out. I am a felon. Many of my childhood friends became habitual criminals.

I promise that culture is far stronger than you believe. The ones who embraced the gangsta rap version of hip hop culture got trapped in a cycle of bad decisions. Other friends who were abused and neglected still had problems but if they rejected the thug lifestyle things generally worked out better over the long term.

Race doesn’t determine success as much as culture does. Race /= culture.

It's poverty, not culture. If you step out of your own experience, you can tell because most large immigrant groups went through the same gangster phase. The Jews, the Irish, the Italians are the most memorable, but only because of their size. You have your triads, the Jamaicans, the Chinese had tongs. In Chicago the polish immigrants had gangs. You have your slavic gangs, the Eastern European gangs. These groups don't share a common culture. They shared a similar economic position.

UMC blacks did not end up in gangs because of gangsta rap. My black friends listened to gangsta rap as they went on to become doctors, lawyer, and one is CEO of a well known public company. Meanwhile in white rural america you see the same problems as in black communities. Nobody calls it "white culture".

The common denominator is poverty.