Supplementing math is becoming the norm now?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

DP. The data says "many" (or possibly "most") but not "every". As with anything else, exceptions must exist here or there in any large country like the USA.

The NAEP math results and PISA math results each show that the US (nationally) is poor at teaching math. Of course, some schools in the US will be better, and some worse, but our national average results for math knowledge can only be called poor.

Really, it's mainly the Asian countries that score well on those tests. And it's cultural from what I understand. My husband is with State Dept and when doing bidding research, most schools internationally were either American curriculum which is based on common core and there was no apparent path to algebra 1 in MS (and still using Lucy Caulkins reader/writer workshop), or British curriculum which is a bit faster paced but doesn't correspond as easily.

It is true that Singapore and Taiwan do well on PIsA teats, but Finland and most other European countries also do very well. ALL of those countries do visibly better than the US.

We are way way down the PISA results list. If we were middle of the pack, that would be one thing, but we aren't even scoring there. We really are towards the bottom.

NAEP is a US-only test, but it also shows poor math scores all across the nation. Common Core curriculum was watered down from prior curricula by the participating states and the education lobby so that all students could pass.

You can’t compare US with other countries- different cultures and attitudes around education, rule following, and parental support. But you can compare the US with itself- and education is undeniable worse than it has been in several decades

This poster is correct and one of the biggest cultural differences is the lack of respect for teachers. In Asia the teacher is like an infallible god and here they are treated like a cleaning lady. You can see it right on this forum with all the posts about “My tween says her teacher is being unfair, who do I complain to?” The American instinct is to trust one’s child first, but in Asia parents would automatically side with the teacher against their child. We used to have more of a happy medium.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

DP. The data says "many" (or possibly "most") but not "every". As with anything else, exceptions must exist here or there in any large country like the USA.

The NAEP math results and PISA math results each show that the US (nationally) is poor at teaching math. Of course, some schools in the US will be better, and some worse, but our national average results for math knowledge can only be called poor.

Really, it's mainly the Asian countries that score well on those tests. And it's cultural from what I understand. My husband is with State Dept and when doing bidding research, most schools internationally were either American curriculum which is based on common core and there was no apparent path to algebra 1 in MS (and still using Lucy Caulkins reader/writer workshop), or British curriculum which is a bit faster paced but doesn't correspond as easily.

It is true that Singapore and Taiwan do well on PIsA teats, but Finland and most other European countries also do very well. ALL of those countries do visibly better than the US.

We are way way down the PISA results list. If we were middle of the pack, that would be one thing, but we aren't even scoring there. We really are towards the bottom.

NAEP is a US-only test, but it also shows poor math scores all across the nation. Common Core curriculum was watered down from prior curricula by the participating states and the education lobby so that all students could pass.

You can’t compare US with other countries- different cultures and attitudes around education, rule following, and parental support. But you can compare the US with itself- and education is undeniable worse than it has been in several decades

This poster is correct and one of the biggest cultural differences is the lack of respect for teachers. In Asia the teacher is like an infallible god and here they are treated like a cleaning lady. You can see it right on this forum with all the posts about “My tween says her teacher is being unfair, who do I complain to?” The American instinct is to trust one’s child first, but in Asia parents would automatically side with the teacher against their child. We used to have more of a happy medium.

I don’t even think this example or a big deal or the cause of problems educated children. In the US we have kindergarteners calling teachers the B word and too many kids with zero respect for authority or property. Kids routinely destroy school property all the time and do not listen to teachers or directions. And it’s just accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

DP. The data says "many" (or possibly "most") but not "every". As with anything else, exceptions must exist here or there in any large country like the USA.

The NAEP math results and PISA math results each show that the US (nationally) is poor at teaching math. Of course, some schools in the US will be better, and some worse, but our national average results for math knowledge can only be called poor.

Really, it's mainly the Asian countries that score well on those tests. And it's cultural from what I understand. My husband is with State Dept and when doing bidding research, most schools internationally were either American curriculum which is based on common core and there was no apparent path to algebra 1 in MS (and still using Lucy Caulkins reader/writer workshop), or British curriculum which is a bit faster paced but doesn't correspond as easily.

It is true that Singapore and Taiwan do well on PIsA teats, but Finland and most other European countries also do very well. ALL of those countries do visibly better than the US.

We are way way down the PISA results list. If we were middle of the pack, that would be one thing, but we aren't even scoring there. We really are towards the bottom.

NAEP is a US-only test, but it also shows poor math scores all across the nation. Common Core curriculum was watered down from prior curricula by the participating states and the education lobby so that all students could pass.

You can’t compare US with other countries- different cultures and attitudes around education, rule following, and parental support. But you can compare the US with itself- and education is undeniable worse than it has been in several decades

This poster is correct and one of the biggest cultural differences is the lack of respect for teachers. In Asia the teacher is like an infallible god and here they are treated like a cleaning lady. You can see it right on this forum with all the posts about “My tween says her teacher is being unfair, who do I complain to?” The American instinct is to trust one’s child first, but in Asia parents would automatically side with the teacher against their child. We used to have more of a happy medium.

I don’t even think this example or a big deal or the cause of problems educated children. In the US we have kindergarteners calling teachers the B word and too many kids with zero respect for authority or property. Kids routinely destroy school property all the time and do not listen to teachers or directions. And it’s just accepted.

Or … there are parents who take time to meet with teachers and try to understand the issues. From my experience, some teachers are wonderful, some are good, so are ok and some who are so and that they should not have ever been allowed to teach kids.

But, math, and the way it is being “taught” right now is just a joke. You cannot rely on accidentally getting a good math teacher every couple of years.

If in a public school, the best advice I can give to any caring parent is to supplement, supplement, and then supplement some more.

[Anonymous]

I think supplementing on the side is not new at all. There are just more options for doing it now, like going to a physical math enrichment center or online classes. Before, it was just educated parents teaching their kids higher level math at home. This was easier when people didn't have to work as much and had more family time. Now that everyone retreats to their computer to send work emails after dinner, there's not as much time to do this one on one with your child so you send them to a center or hire a tutor.

[Anonymous]

So well said. 100% support on textbooks

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do people mean when they say "textbook" with regards to elementary school math?

My kid uses workbooks at school and these come home periodically when they are done, so we can see all the content and our kid's work. It's not like the textbooks I had as a kid because it's single use -- all the content is in the workboook and the kid does the work directly in the book instead of a separate sheet of paper. But the contents are pretty much the same as the textbooks I had as a kid.

I do sometimes wonder if not being forced to create their own work on a separate piece of paper causes something lost. Something about the mental organization it takes to read a lesson, look at the problem set, and then write the problems on a separate sheet and work them out in a way that is clear to a teacher when they turn it in.

However, all of the options for math supplementing also use workbooks. Is there a math tutoring program that uses traditional text books and kids having to re-create their work on blank paper? I am unaware of them.

So I'm not sure that supplementing is offering a big advantage over what is happening in class in this respecting. Everyone is using the same sort of materials. The main advantage of supplementing is that it's more time on math, and enables kids to work ahead so that when they encounter concepts in school, it's review instead of an introduction.

I’m not sure why recopying problems from a textbook would be more effective than solving them in a workbook. To address it, however, I think you could simply have your child recopy their problems from a workbook to a blank sheet of paper.

As for supplementing, I don’t think there’s a significant advantage in supplementing just to accelerate your child. First of all, many math curriculums spiral so much of classroom instruction is already designed to be a review. I think the key is that math concepts should be mastered as they are introduced to make sure the child’s foundation is solid before they try to learn more advanced concepts which build on those earlier lessons. Secondly, when a child is advanced and feels they aren’t learning anything new, it causes other problems. For those reason, I generally recommend enriching advanced students rather than accelerating them.

There is so much added value in having an actual text book. Copying the problems from the book on to paper helps with organization. They learn to both copy accurately, but line numbers up and create and orderly format. Then theirs the actual text. If they are unsure how to do something, they have the text to reference. Parents can also clearly see what problems are supposed to be done and the methods they are being taught- so they can help their students. It’s an absolute travesty that text books have been cut out

PP you responded to here

I agree with you 100%. I think textbooks are vital. They serve many functions including: providing instruction from subject matter experts that has been professionally edited, and often reviewed by other subject matter experts; explanations and examples that are coordinated with problem sets; and additional study resources such as a glossary, index, selected answers for self checks, etc. Perhaps the most valuable service they provide is that they enable the parent to view the curriculum. This not only makes it easier for parents to help with homework, but it allows them to be informed about deficiencies in the curriculum.

When my kids were in elementary, I was constantly frustrated because the school system (which liked to proclaim itself “one of the best school systems in the country) eschewed professionally developed curricula with proven track records in favor of a proprietary curriculum they had developed in-house. It was loosely based on 2 commercial math programs that were so bad that parents were actively protesting them elsewhere, but without the subject matter expertise or professional editing. With no textbooks to review, and when even the tests were considered proprietary and thus were never sent home, most parents had no idea what was actually going on.

I still remember when DD had progressed to middle school math where they were finally provided with commercially produced textbooks. When she asked me for help with her homework, I asked her if she had read the explanation preceding the assigned problems. She was astounded when I showed her that not only did the textbook provide an explanation, it also provided examples of sample problems similar to those in her homework. Then her mind was completely blown when I showed her that there were selected answers in the back so she could check her understanding, along with a glossary, and an index.

Since the PP that I had responded to was complaining primarily about the workbooks not requiring recopying of the assigned problems, and didn’t mention a lack of instructional material, I assumed (perhaps incorrectly), that the workbook was a supplementary resource to a standard textbook. When I was in school, we always had math textbooks, but while math workbooks weren’t provided, we had plenty of supplementary worksheets. Similarly, in reading, we had spelling textbooks, grammar textbooks, basal readers, and workbooks that were companions to the basal readers. I think textbooks are absolutely essential (Personally, I have a preference for traditional printed formats, but would choose a well-written, mathematically sound e-book over a hard copy that favored pedagogical trends over mathematical content.). If a textbook comes with SUPPLEMENTARY resources, whether that’s as workbooks, videos, games, etc., I may question whether they add any value, but don’t see how they detract anything, as long as the core textbook itself provides strong instruction.

[Anonymous]

OP. Our DD is in 6th grade AAP in fairfax county.

We have to supplement as they move too fast in math. They cram for 2 weeks and take a block test, then move on to another topic.

We took our kid to mathnasium and they said she barely understands 4th grade material. They said the school just skips over material too fast, retests and just keeps going forward. It doesn't really matter if they understand the material, a lot of teachers have to prep the kids for the tests.

We feel like we need to supplement just to understand the basics the school skipped over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. Our DD is in 6th grade AAP in fairfax county.

We have to supplement as they move too fast in math. They cram for 2 weeks and take a block test, then move on to another topic.

We took our kid to mathnasium and they said she barely understands 4th grade material. They said the school just skips over material too fast, retests and just keeps going forward. It doesn't really matter if they understand the material, a lot of teachers have to prep the kids for the tests.

We feel like we need to supplement just to understand the basics the school skipped over.

Other kids in the class understand the concepts moving at that speed. The problem is they but kids into AAP who are not ready for advanced math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. Our DD is in 6th grade AAP in fairfax county.

We have to supplement as they move too fast in math. They cram for 2 weeks and take a block test, then move on to another topic.

We took our kid to mathnasium and they said she barely understands 4th grade material. They said the school just skips over material too fast, retests and just keeps going forward. It doesn't really matter if they understand the material, a lot of teachers have to prep the kids for the tests.

We feel like we need to supplement just to understand the basics the school skipped over.

That sounds awful. Did she prep to get into AAP or how did she get selected for it and stay in if she doesn't understand the 4th grade material? I sometimes grumble about our spiral curriculum because it seems like DS has been working on and revisiting and revisiting (and revisiting again!) the same material for so long, but your DD's class situation sounds stressful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Other kids in the class understand the concepts moving at that speed. The problem is they but kids into AAP who are not ready for advanced math.

No doubt some do without help, but the most likely scenario is that many kids in that AAP class already are supplementing math outside school. That might be parents who purchased workbooks, at a math center, or a tutor.

And by "supplementing" I merely mean the student gets enough outside practice to really learn the methods. I do not necessarily mean pushing ahead, though no doubt some also do that.

The car stickers at Kumon, Mathnasium, RSM, or similar tell the story. Car stickers are both from good public schools and also from good private schools.

There is a whole thread in DCUM on math supplementing. Those businesses would not be there if there were only a few students supplementing math.

[Anonymous]

It’s so sad to see this as the norm now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

Yes. Yes they do

As this president is dismantling the Department of Education. All the states seem to have their own way of teaching it. Maybe there needs to be better federal oversight.

I still remember at my school we started mixing grades and had separate teachers for math and French in 4th grade and 5th grades. I started getting stomachaches in 4th grade math. I can still visualize where I sat with my math book and the scary teacher sitting reading magazines at her desk while I struggled.

I’m sure there are students today who struggle but are too timid or scared to ask for help. Maybe the teacher taught the concept once and you were out of luck if you didn’t get it.

Way to bring current politics into the discussion... these issues have been pretty prevalent for many years under all administrations - realistically it's a state education issue anyway

The government runs the schools, collects taxes for education. Yes, most funding is from the state but the Department of Education oversees the federal law that mandates education for students with disabilities. It also is in charge of ensuring that no state is violating any civil rights. It funds Title 1 schools. Plus much more.

Math scores have never been lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. Our DD is in 6th grade AAP in fairfax county.

We have to supplement as they move too fast in math. They cram for 2 weeks and take a block test, then move on to another topic.

We took our kid to mathnasium and they said she barely understands 4th grade material. They said the school just skips over material too fast, retests and just keeps going forward. It doesn't really matter if they understand the material, a lot of teachers have to prep the kids for the tests.

We feel like we need to supplement just to understand the basics the school skipped over.

Other kids in the class understand the concepts moving at that speed. The problem is they but kids into AAP who are not ready for advanced math.

My kid is in 4th AAP and we had to start Mathnasium this year. My kid said they learn a new concept, do 1 worksheet of approximately 5-8 questions (which seems insufficient to me) then moves on to a new concept the very next day. And this goes on for a couple weeks until a test at the end of the unit. I've never seen a study guide or anything for kid to get good practice. Kid felt down because he thought he was the only one who doesn't get it. Long story short, we found out many of the classmates have apparently been going to math class at some weekend Chinese place for years. I assume the teacher probably realizes that and teaches the class as more of a review than new material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

Yes. Yes they do

As this president is dismantling the Department of Education. All the states seem to have their own way of teaching it. Maybe there needs to be better federal oversight.

I still remember at my school we started mixing grades and had separate teachers for math and French in 4th grade and 5th grades. I started getting stomachaches in 4th grade math. I can still visualize where I sat with my math book and the scary teacher sitting reading magazines at her desk while I struggled.

I’m sure there are students today who struggle but are too timid or scared to ask for help. Maybe the teacher taught the concept once and you were out of luck if you didn’t get it.

Way to bring current politics into the discussion... these issues have been pretty prevalent for many years under all administrations - realistically it's a state education issue anyway

The government runs the schools, collects taxes for education. Yes, most funding is from the state but the Department of Education oversees the federal law that mandates education for students with disabilities. It also is in charge of ensuring that no state is violating any civil rights. It funds Title 1 schools. Plus much more.

Math scores have never been lower.

It’s been a steady decline for the past 2-3 decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s so sad to see this as the norm now.

It’s more sad that we pay a lot of money in taxes for schools that are essentially a big waste of time.

[Anonymous]

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