Supplementing math is becoming the norm now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

DP. The data says "many" (or possibly "most") but not "every". As with anything else, exceptions must exist here or there in any large country like the USA.

The NAEP math results and PISA math results each show that the US (nationally) is poor at teaching math. Of course, some schools in the US will be better, and some worse, but our national average results for math knowledge can only be called poor.

Really, it's mainly the Asian countries that score well on those tests. And it's cultural from what I understand. My husband is with State Dept and when doing bidding research, most schools internationally were either American curriculum which is based on common core and there was no apparent path to algebra 1 in MS (and still using Lucy Caulkins reader/writer workshop), or British curriculum which is a bit faster paced but doesn't correspond as easily.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]When did this change and why? We did not supplement in the aughts and certainly not in the 90s. [/quote]There are no textbooks. The teachers teach to the SOL. They follow disconnected strands bc of the SOL. They cram info into Sept-April bc they reserve the end of April and May for SOL review and test. Many of the teachers are young and inexperienced. They teach math off of poorly formatted Google slides. It’s all very poorly taught. [/quote]

Dp. This, and kids got homework. Parents helped kids as needed with their homework. They'd check math sent home and explain things kids weren't understanding.

Kids don't get homework anymore, or if they do, it's like 5-10 minutes long and inconsistently given.

I was doing 30 minutes a day afterschool by 5-6th grade. It was school assigned homework, mostly daily math.
[/quote]
I don't know anyone whose parents were regularly helping them with HW beyond ES in the 1980s or 90s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

DP. The data says "many" (or possibly "most") but not "every". As with anything else, exceptions must exist here or there in any large country like the USA.

The NAEP math results and PISA math results each show that the US (nationally) is poor at teaching math. Of course, some schools in the US will be better, and some worse, but our national average results for math knowledge can only be called poor.

Really, it's mainly the Asian countries that score well on those tests. And it's cultural from what I understand. My husband is with State Dept and when doing bidding research, most schools internationally were either American curriculum which is based on common core and there was no apparent path to algebra 1 in MS (and still using Lucy Caulkins reader/writer workshop), or British curriculum which is a bit faster paced but doesn't correspond as easily.

It is true that Singapore and Taiwan do well on PIsA teats, but Finland and most other European countries also do very well. ALL of those countries do visibly better than the US.

We are way way down the PISA results list. If we were middle of the pack, that would be one thing, but we aren't even scoring there. We really are towards the bottom.

NAEP is a US-only test, but it also shows poor math scores all across the nation. Common Core curriculum was watered down from prior curricula by the participating states and the education lobby so that all students could pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

Yes. Yes they do

As this president is dismantling the Department of Education. All the states seem to have their own way of teaching it. Maybe there needs to be better federal oversight.

I still remember at my school we started mixing grades and had separate teachers for math and French in 4th grade and 5th grades. I started getting stomachaches in 4th grade math. I can still visualize where I sat with my math book and the scary teacher sitting reading magazines at her desk while I struggled.

I’m sure there are students today who struggle but are too timid or scared to ask for help. Maybe the teacher taught the concept once and you were out of luck if you didn’t get it.

Way to bring current politics into the discussion... these issues have been pretty prevalent for many years under all administrations - realistically it's a state education issue anyway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

DP. The data says "many" (or possibly "most") but not "every". As with anything else, exceptions must exist here or there in any large country like the USA.

The NAEP math results and PISA math results each show that the US (nationally) is poor at teaching math. Of course, some schools in the US will be better, and some worse, but our national average results for math knowledge can only be called poor.

Really, it's mainly the Asian countries that score well on those tests. And it's cultural from what I understand. My husband is with State Dept and when doing bidding research, most schools internationally were either American curriculum which is based on common core and there was no apparent path to algebra 1 in MS (and still using Lucy Caulkins reader/writer workshop), or British curriculum which is a bit faster paced but doesn't correspond as easily.

It is true that Singapore and Taiwan do well on PIsA teats, but Finland and most other European countries also do very well. ALL of those countries do visibly better than the US.

We are way way down the PISA results list. If we were middle of the pack, that would be one thing, but we aren't even scoring there. We really are towards the bottom.

NAEP is a US-only test, but it also shows poor math scores all across the nation. Common Core curriculum was watered down from prior curricula by the participating states and the education lobby so that all students could pass.

You can’t compare US with other countries- different cultures and attitudes around education, rule following, and parental support. But you can compare the US with itself- and education is undeniable worse than it has been in several decades

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

DP. The data says "many" (or possibly "most") but not "every". As with anything else, exceptions must exist here or there in any large country like the USA.

The NAEP math results and PISA math results each show that the US (nationally) is poor at teaching math. Of course, some schools in the US will be better, and some worse, but our national average results for math knowledge can only be called poor.

Really, it's mainly the Asian countries that score well on those tests. And it's cultural from what I understand. My husband is with State Dept and when doing bidding research, most schools internationally were either American curriculum which is based on common core and there was no apparent path to algebra 1 in MS (and still using Lucy Caulkins reader/writer workshop), or British curriculum which is a bit faster paced but doesn't correspond as easily.

It is true that Singapore and Taiwan do well on PIsA teats, but Finland and most other European countries also do very well. ALL of those countries do visibly better than the US.

We are way way down the PISA results list. If we were middle of the pack, that would be one thing, but we aren't even scoring there. We really are towards the bottom.

NAEP is a US-only test, but it also shows poor math scores all across the nation. Common Core curriculum was watered down from prior curricula by the participating states and the education lobby so that all students could pass.

You can’t compare US with other countries- different cultures and attitudes around education, rule following, and parental support. But you can compare the US with itself- and education is undeniable worse than it has been in several decades

Good point. And yeah you can see that many Americans, including adults, can’t do even the simplest math. Figuring out how many cookies each kid gets from a box, or counting change. I mean, people can’t even tell time from an analog clock these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians rule

Between the math competitions, spelling bees, and computer science competitions- Asians are definitely the majority of representation. Not all wealthy either-putting education as a high priority is cultural. Wish more families did

BUT, we don’t need everyone excelling in math and high tech work. Most careers don’t involved very advanced math. But students aiming for a STEM career need to prioritize it.

Elementary students and most middle school students have not settled on a career yet. The future career is an unknown. (Sure, a tiny number of very very rare exceptions to this might exist.) Yet those are the exact ages where a strong math foundation needs to be established yo even have the option for a STEM degree in college or future STEM career.

Having a solid math foundation is about not closing doors prematurely for students in elementary and middle schools.

There are plenty of students who know that they have zero interest in STEM careers, or finance or economics or anything close to that. By middle school they have a good idea of what classes they enjoy and which classes are miserable grinds.

Every student needs to have a solid math foundation. Not every student needs to accelerate math or be in advanced classes. I would hope that the kids who spent their free time at a math school and math summer programs use these skills in a career they enjoy.

Every student doesn’t need discrete math and MVC in high school. But students with normal IQ and cognitive ability that are college bound should absolutely have calculus by 12th. In most districts, the normal pathway is Alg I in 9th, which isn’t enough IMO. The most typical advanced path puts students at Alg I in 8th, which isn’t crazy advanced at all, but students might not get enough math in K-5 to get there without supplemental math. It isn’t that they are dumb- it’s that school literally isn’t preparing them. It isn’t just about math, it’s about higher level thinking

Posters here seem to only think about the same colleges with the big names and the Ivy Leagues. There are about 3,000 four year colleges in the US. Less than half require 4 years of math. The only ones that need calculus are students going into STEM or the top colleges and a few scattered reasons.

Math is not the only subject that strengthens higher level thinking. All subjects do. The problem with students who spend all of their free hours on math tend to be weak in creative thinking, creative writing, they can be weak in the humanities where everything is not black and white like math. They may be weak in memorizing historical events and timelines because they don’t typically have to memorize. Students weak in math have an easier time because they can almost avoid it with taking the minimum requirements.

A large majority of kids are average and they will have no problem finding a college that fits them. Average kids who do the work will get good grades in all of the basic maths. Most kids have a subject they like and are good at, maybe history or English. That will help them find their way into a major they will enjoy and do well in.

Taking Alg 1 in 8th is not some huge acceleration. That should be average but our schools are so bad that it isn’t. Kids wanting to go into STEM at a
Top 20 school are doing more acceleration than that.

We have the advanced kids who go to RMS close to the school in Algebra 1. Everyone else, about 80% take 8th grade math.

Yeah, because school math is terrible and very slow; only about 30% of kids meet grade level expectations. If kids of normal intelligence were actually given good instruction in school, Alg I in 8th would be standard. But that isn’t reality. Math instruction in school as is subpar for normal kids.

Since “normal” kids are the vast majority of the students in public schools what you’re claiming is every public school has a subpar math program. I don’t know.

Yes. Yes they do

As this president is dismantling the Department of Education. All the states seem to have their own way of teaching it. Maybe there needs to be better federal oversight.

I still remember at my school we started mixing grades and had separate teachers for math and French in 4th grade and 5th grades. I started getting stomachaches in 4th grade math. I can still visualize where I sat with my math book and the scary teacher sitting reading magazines at her desk while I struggled.

I’m sure there are students today who struggle but are too timid or scared to ask for help. Maybe the teacher taught the concept once and you were out of luck if you didn’t get it.

Way to bring current politics into the discussion... these issues have been pretty prevalent for many years under all administrations - realistically it's a state education issue anyway

There’s no way you can have an intelligent conversation without discussing all issues that might be contributing to the lower scores in math. Department of Education should have addressed this issue. Why do some states consistently have failing test results. What are the top states doing that allows their students to do well. Leaving it to the states isn’t working.

President Carter created the Board of Education almost 50 years ago. He was hoping the federal department would ensure equal access to all regardless of race, creed, color, national origin. President Trump has been the only president to get rid of the Department. It certainly won’t be helpful to have a federal agency that focuses on education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve recently had a bit of a reality check about math education and wanted to see if others have experienced something similar.

My DD is in 5th grade, and I had assumed that being in a small private school class with more individualized attention would mean math instruction and practice would be strong enough on its own. But I’m starting to realize that relying on school alone may not be enough and can be a serious mistake. This is insane!! I’ve noticed that many classmates are doing supplemental math outside of school. The % is much higher than I expected. I started to freak out.

When the concepts started getting harder this year, it became clear that kids really need consistent practice to build mastery. At least in our school, the amount of homework has been consistent since 1st grade yet insufficient and it doesn’t seem to be checked closely.

Coming from another country where math education involved much more systematic practice, I’ve been surprised by how common it seems here for families to supplement math outside of school—even when they’re already paying $$$ for tuition!

It’s quite hard to accept the reality. I wonder what others see and experience. I first started out appreciating how much kids enjoy their children here but I now see that it comes at the expense of a solid, necessary academic foundation for the future. It’s getting frustrating.

I am also coming from another country, so I think I understand your confusion and surprise. We are in a public school, so I don’t know much about private schools. But, for public schools, yes, supplementing is necessary if you want your child to have a good math foundation.

[Anonymous]

My 5th grader gets all As in math b it honestly he is not good at it. He understands complex concepts easily. But doesn’t know times tables and has never been taught to systematically write out his working.

The schools don’t care the kids don’t know anything. A grades are totally meaningless.

He is in advanced math but I worry it’s too fast and they would be better off doing more indepth study more slowly.

Apparently no kids do the homework and the teacher never asks for it back.

I am considering RSM or a tutor for 6th grade to reinforce math fluency. Sad thing is I know my kids will see this as punishment or question why it’s need when they are so smart. Public school here is just a compliance test - they don’t teach love of learning or pride in producing great work. My kids hand writing is terrible- as school never really taught it!

How can I make math enrichment fun?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 5th grader gets all As in math b it honestly he is not good at it. He understands complex concepts easily. But doesn’t know times tables and has never been taught to systematically write out his working.

The schools don’t care the kids don’t know anything. A grades are totally meaningless.

He is in advanced math but I worry it’s too fast and they would be better off doing more indepth study more slowly.

Apparently no kids do the homework and the teacher never asks for it back.

I am considering RSM or a tutor for 6th grade to reinforce math fluency. Sad thing is I know my kids will see this as punishment or question why it’s need when they are so smart. Public school here is just a compliance test - they don’t teach love of learning or pride in producing great work. My kids hand writing is terrible- as school never really taught it!

How can I make math enrichment fun?

Not everything has to be fun. Sounds like your son needs remediation not enrichment. Multiplication flashcards for sure until he memorizes them. This should have been done in 3rd grade.

[Anonymous]

We have done mathnasiums' summer program for a few years now. It's pretty flexible and cheaper than their school year program, and it allows for reinforcement over the summer. To the extent it means anything at all, our kids' teachers have always been positive about their beginning of year standardized math test scores relative to peers in terms of not slipping during summer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have done mathnasiums' summer program for a few years now. It's pretty flexible and cheaper than their school year program, and it allows for reinforcement over the summer. To the extent it means anything at all, our kids' teachers have always been positive about their beginning of year standardized math test scores relative to peers in terms of not slipping during summer

What’s your experience with Mathnasium? I’m interested in Mathnasium but I’m skeptical about its classes being just kids doing math questions on a tablet without much instruction. But I am also hesitant to commit to RMS as it’s so intense. My kid already has a full schedule and I don’t see how I can squeeze in more classes and homework from RMS or Kumon. My kid needs supplement out of necessity. Repeatedly I see them doing new math homework while forgetting the concept they learned two weeks ago. Inadequate, inconsistent homework practice made it hard to build fluency or mastery. They get to a new concept while the grasp of the previous one remains shaky and superficial.

[Anonymous]

We went to the bookstore and bought a paper workbook that Is aligned with what DC is learning in class. She does one page (front and back) every day (7 days/week). It takes 10 minutes daily.

This is just for reinforcement, not acceleration. It gives her enough practice working the math problems to really memorize the math methods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have done mathnasiums' summer program for a few years now. It's pretty flexible and cheaper than their school year program, and it allows for reinforcement over the summer. To the extent it means anything at all, our kids' teachers have always been positive about their beginning of year standardized math test scores relative to peers in terms of not slipping during summer

What’s your experience with Mathnasium? I’m interested in Mathnasium but I’m skeptical about its classes being just kids doing math questions on a tablet without much instruction. But I am also hesitant to commit to RMS as it’s so intense. My kid already has a full schedule and I don’t see how I can squeeze in more classes and homework from RMS or Kumon. My kid needs supplement out of necessity. Repeatedly I see them doing new math homework while forgetting the concept they learned two weeks ago. Inadequate, inconsistent homework practice made it hard to build fluency or mastery. They get to a new concept while the grasp of the previous one remains shaky and superficial.

I give it a passing grade but not incredible. Our center still uses paper (I’ll go elsewhere if they switch to tablets). There is usually a tutor for every couple of kids — they seem to get decent help when they are confused and they seem to learn something, even if thru repetition. I am not sure it’d work if my kid was really struggling but for summer supplementation it works.

[Anonymous]

Top students have been doing this since the early 90s.