Thoughts on ECs for junior--do we need anything else?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

Is this at a tiny private school? I'm baffled as to how a kid can play 3 varsity sports and captain two. Which sports?

Soccer, indoor track and lacrosse. Both my kids played three sports. The other did volleyball, indoor track, lacrosse. Not the least bit unusual.

So it was a tiny private school.

Nope

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one plays three varsity sports at big public schools. To make the varsity team, you have to play year round soccer, which means you can't also play lacrosse.

Indoor track isn't much of a varsity sport, really very low time commitment and isn't it usually no -cut? More like a club.

I wouldn’t send my kids to public school for many reasons, including the sports being low level.

[Anonymous]

Tiny private schools ECs don't make sense to public school people. There is no competition for anything at the little private schools because basically, the parents are paying tuition to build their child's college resumes and don't want their kids to have to compete for spots on varsity or in the clubs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one plays three varsity sports at big public schools. To make the varsity team, you have to play year round soccer, which means you can't also play lacrosse.

Indoor track isn't much of a varsity sport, really very low time commitment and isn't it usually no -cut? More like a club.

I wouldn’t send my kids to public school for many reasons, including the sports being low level.

You think the sports at a large public school are a "lower level" than at a little private school? The only private schools with amazing sports teams actively recruit and pay for kids on those teams to attend their school. They aren't regular students being "coached up". LOL.

[Anonymous]

NP. Didn’t read all 10 pages but the construction job is the only thing that stood out. If DC enjoyed that, consider an engineering science degree which focuses on the business and project management aspect of engineering. They have it at Vanderbilt as ann undergrad major and probably elsewhere. Requires some intro engineering classes so needs to have some interest and aptitude in those areas. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one plays three varsity sports at big public schools. To make the varsity team, you have to play year round soccer, which means you can't also play lacrosse.

Indoor track isn't much of a varsity sport, really very low time commitment and isn't it usually no -cut? More like a club.

I wouldn’t send my kids to public school for many reasons, including the sports being low level.

You think the sports at a large public school are a "lower level" than at a little private school? The only private schools with amazing sports teams actively recruit and pay for kids on those teams to attend their school. They aren't regular students being "coached up". LOL.

Our school recruits and plays in the most competitive private school league.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of even more
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

By referring to other people's kids as "low energy" you lost the very little credibility you might have had.

I need to dig back up that striver thread. You sound like the champion of it. Only someone who is totally insecure and didn't go to top schools would have a kid who was like yours. It is not because they are "high energy" or "super motivated" - it is because their parents are nuts. At some point it is too much and it is a sign that a kid is either being dominated by their parents or isn't comfortable in their own skin and needs to keep doing more things because they feel insecure. For many AO's at some point it becomes a negative, not a positive.

You must chill.

To the contrary, dh and I both went to T5 for college and grad school. Some people just do more. Others live on dcum and waste their time criticizing others. To each his own.

I went to top schools for undergrad and grad school and most (but not all) of my peers would not refer to other people's children as "low energy," particularly not to prop up their own child. But maybe I was fortunate and just went to the right top schools with people who had class.

Your child sounds insufferable, like their parents. I'm sure they walk around telling people how great they are. And if this was our generation they would get the crap beat out of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one plays three varsity sports at big public schools. To make the varsity team, you have to play year round soccer, which means you can't also play lacrosse.

Indoor track isn't much of a varsity sport, really very low time commitment and isn't it usually no -cut? More like a club.

I wouldn’t send my kids to public school for many reasons, including the sports being low level.

You are awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tiny private schools ECs don't make sense to public school people. There is no competition for anything at the little private schools because basically, the parents are paying tuition to build their child's college resumes and don't want their kids to have to compete for spots on varsity or in the clubs.

I know you are a troll, but gosh darn, the insecurity on display here is just amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one plays three varsity sports at big public schools. To make the varsity team, you have to play year round soccer, which means you can't also play lacrosse.

Indoor track isn't much of a varsity sport, really very low time commitment and isn't it usually no -cut? More like a club.

I wouldn’t send my kids to public school for many reasons, including the sports being low level.

You are awful.

lol, funny troll. The person(s) attacking op are the awful ones, not me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of even more
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

By referring to other people's kids as "low energy" you lost the very little credibility you might have had.

I need to dig back up that striver thread. You sound like the champion of it. Only someone who is totally insecure and didn't go to top schools would have a kid who was like yours. It is not because they are "high energy" or "super motivated" - it is because their parents are nuts. At some point it is too much and it is a sign that a kid is either being dominated by their parents or isn't comfortable in their own skin and needs to keep doing more things because they feel insecure. For many AO's at some point it becomes a negative, not a positive.

You must chill.

To the contrary, dh and I both went to T5 for college and grad school. Some people just do more. Others live on dcum and waste their time criticizing others. To each his own.

I went to top schools for undergrad and grad school and most (but not all) of my peers would not refer to other people's children as "low energy," particularly not to prop up their own child. But maybe I was fortunate and just went to the right top schools with people who had class.

Your child sounds insufferable, like their parents. I'm sure they walk around telling people how great they are. And if this was our generation they would get the crap beat out of them.

Nothing classy about you and all your whining.

[Anonymous]

I think this poster royally stinks and is a miserable human being.

However, I don't think being captain of two varsity sports at any school is a big deal. Good athletes often tend to be good athletes across sports. Soccer/lax/hockey are pretty common combos, so if a kid is good at soccer, the skills overlap with lax so it is possible to be good at both. Similarly, as mentioned above, XC, indoor and outdoor track all go together very easily, so easy to do all three and be a captain. I know many kids who are three season varsity athletes - it's not easy, but it is far from unheard of.

Also, being captain isn't always just aptitude. I will admit that I was a varsity captain in HS despite being far from the best on my team at the sport - it was for leadership and such. My child plays a varsity sport and the captain basically got the role by default as the only senior - they are actually pretty bad (but a nice kid).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tiny private schools ECs don't make sense to public school people. There is no competition for anything at the little private schools because basically, the parents are paying tuition to build their child's college resumes and don't want their kids to have to compete for spots on varsity or in the clubs.

I know you are a troll, but gosh darn, the insecurity on display here is just amazing.

Agreed. This is yet another time where I wish DCUM required logins (even if they were anonymous) so that we knew who was who and could ignore people like this. They are awful.

And guess what - admissions officers can see right through their miserable over-programmed kids. "My name is Johnny and my mommy and daddy say that I'm the smartest most talented kid on earth and that my poop doesn't stink!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tiny private schools ECs don't make sense to public school people. There is no competition for anything at the little private schools because basically, the parents are paying tuition to build their child's college resumes and don't want their kids to have to compete for spots on varsity or in the clubs.

I know you are a troll, but gosh darn, the insecurity on display here is just amazing.

Agreed. This is yet another time where I wish DCUM required logins (even if they were anonymous) so that we knew who was who and could ignore people like this. They are awful.

And guess what - admissions officers can see right through their miserable over-programmed kids. "My name is Johnny and my mommy and daddy say that I'm the smartest most talented kid on earth and that my poop doesn't stink!"

Sorry, attacking op and other.kids is exactly the insecurity I was describing. You’re the jerk here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tiny private schools ECs don't make sense to public school people. There is no competition for anything at the little private schools because basically, the parents are paying tuition to build their child's college resumes and don't want their kids to have to compete for spots on varsity or in the clubs.

I know you are a troll, but gosh darn, the insecurity on display here is just amazing.

Agreed. This is yet another time where I wish DCUM required logins (even if they were anonymous) so that we knew who was who and could ignore people like this. They are awful.

And guess what - admissions officers can see right through their miserable over-programmed kids. "My name is Johnny and my mommy and daddy say that I'm the smartest most talented kid on earth and that my poop doesn't stink!"

Sorry, attacking op and other.kids is exactly the insecurity I was describing. You’re the jerk here.

Nope. Generally not my MO but when someone is consistently being obnoxious you drop the gloves. It is all they respond to. Though they usually do the “who me?” and act virtuous. See Trump, Donald. Another loud mouth self-impressed jerk.