Thoughts on ECs for junior--do we need anything else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

As far as college admissions, I wouldn’t worry much about OPs kid. He’s not even motivated enough to come up with his own fake extracurricular activities. That task is outsourced to the parent. Mom will write the essays, keep track of deadlines, ask for letters of recommendation. Too bad she can’t take the SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

The issue is would AOs be savy enough to spot these issues in 3-5 minutes?

When I read OP's post the first time, they all appears very credible to me, almost cliche. "Coaching for several seasons" comes across nothing more than teaching inner city kids math, or playing violin at a senior living home. Would these dumb AOs understand what's involved in becoming a coach?

Construction jobs too. Without the understanding on what the legal requirements involved, it's nothing different from working in a farm, taking care of horses, bee raising etc. You almost need expert knowledge to spot this issue. No way any AO understand this part.

Federal judge internship does sound nepo now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP, also quite skeptical about the federal judge internship. I know of no federal internships open to HS students. Even volunteer activities with, say, the Smithsonian are mostly 18 and over, with a few exceptions for camp counselors or mentoring programs. Internships or clerkships for federal judges are typically designed for law school students.

That said OP may have an "informal" arrangement with someone she knows. These are far more common than typically acknowledged here on DCUM.

OP clarified the federal judge internship is not an informal arrangement but a program accepting multiple high school students.

Although initially she said the kid is “doing” the internship, later she changed her tune that the internship is in the summer of 26, after many pointed out these programs are only open to rising seniors.

Her entire story is a patch of inconsistencies and poorly thought out lies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

How? Each varsity sports demands 15 hours per week. Three, that's 45 hours already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

By referring to other people's kids as "low energy" you lost the very little credibility you might have had.

I need to dig back up that striver thread. You sound like the champion of it. Only someone who is totally insecure and didn't go to top schools would have a kid who was like yours. It is not because they are "high energy" or "super motivated" - it is because their parents are nuts. At some point it is too much and it is a sign that a kid is either being dominated by their parents or isn't comfortable in their own skin and needs to keep doing more things because they feel insecure. For many AO's at some point it becomes a negative, not a positive.

You must chill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

How? Each varsity sports demands 15 hours per week. Three, that's 45 hours already.

I think this person is crazy also but for this example, I assume they mean one each season. Though to be good at varsity sports you generally can't just shut it down and fully pivot - you have to be doing some training. Unless it is XC, indoor and outdoor track, which are basically the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

Is this at a tiny private school? I'm baffled as to how a kid can play 3 varsity sports and captain two. Which sports?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

Is this at a tiny private school? I'm baffled as to how a kid can play 3 varsity sports and captain two. Which sports?

Soccer, indoor track and lacrosse. Both my kids played three sports. The other did volleyball, indoor track, lacrosse. Not the least bit unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of equipment
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

Is this at a tiny private school? I'm baffled as to how a kid can play 3 varsity sports and captain two. Which sports?

Soccer, indoor track and lacrosse. Both my kids played three sports. The other did volleyball, indoor track, lacrosse. Not the least bit unusual.

So it was a tiny private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not quite sure what is the big deal about coaching. DC went to his badminton facility from a young age, they have all high school kids/athletes coaching the younger kids. Where we live, badminton is a popular sport. I think many badminton facilities do that. It’s quite common.

Coaching a rec team involves a lot of work outside of practice / game time:
-Organization meetings
-Email/text communications with parents, age coordinators, refs
-Hand-holding of newbie parents
-Schedule / field changes
-Dealing with unruly parents
-Coordinating snack schedules
-keeping track of even more
-Selecting All Star players

Both of my kids did this for a few seasons. It is at least a 6 hour commitment per week. Then add the All Stars Tournament. They were only two coaching at a time. Each played the sport on different club teams, so at least one would be able to coach games if the other one had a club game.

Thanks for explaining. What still isn’t clear to me is why you think OP’s DC could not have coached. Yes, it’s a ton of work, and yes you have to be really good at it to coach (the young badminton coaches were competing nationally). But it’s doable? So why you don’t give her the benefit of doubt? That part is still not clear.

Since OPs kid has coached for “several seasons”, it sounds like he was doing all that in middle school. For many places kids must be over 16 to coach. I’m skeptical.

In order to be a coach my kid needs to do the following:

- be over 16
- complete classes and get certified by Red Cross on first aid, CPR, AED
- take course on recognition and prevention of concussion from CDC
- take Safe Sport class on harassment and abuse in sports for coaches
- become a certified camp counselor with the national sport organization
- become a certified instructor with the national sports organization
- live scan
- work permit from school
- I9 for wages
- two additional certifications

I see kids listing in their college application coaching as an extracurricular when they just taught a few younger relatives shoot hoops last summer.

In my view it’s a stretch to call it coaching, and is just the typical exaggeration that takes place in college applications. The kids that can back up their extracurriculars will rise above the cheaters and the liars.

My kids made sure they explained the coaching workload as much as possible on activities section. They included hours spent (including practice planning), number of players on team, extra tasks and certifications. One of my kids wrote their common app essay about a challenging situation they faced while coaching. They are still coaching in college, and are the campus liason between the student coaches and the local youth sports organization.

That’s the way to do it, hard work and honesty.

Unfortunately there will always be people like OP and her son, who will try to cheat and fake everything: sports coaching, construction job, internship with the federal judge. What are the chances he actually founded a club and was president of the other. Quite low! I’ve seen statistics that about 40% of students lie about extracurriculars, most commonly faking leadership roles and exaggerating roles and responsibilities. OP and her kid are textbook examples.

Only redeeming part is that bright kids don’t need to resort to these cheap tricks, they’ll shine through.

It’s the same for job applications and interviews, people lie and exagerate on their CV all the time, but it’s quite easy to figure out who the qualified candidates are.

Agree. There aren't enough hours in a day to do all of the things referenced in a meaningful way. They sound like either a liar or an accumulator. I work with people like this - they helicopter into situations, act like they are making it better but just make it worse, exit, and claim to have reinvented the wheel.

Admissions officers only have so much time per application. They will see this one, scratch their chin, debate whether it is real or not, assume the worst and move on. I'm glad people say they know kids like this at great schools. I know plenty like this who are insufferable phonies and their parents are even worse. Some benefit greatly from getting away to college where their awful parents aren't managing their lives. But in this day and age, even that is hard to do as they are required to check in with mom constantly.

Just because you and your kids are low energy, don’t assume others are.

I’m not op. My own kid plays three varsity sports (captains two), leads two major clubs at his school, plays a significant role in two others, has a small business he runs with several friends, holds a student government position, and spends each summer doing something related to his “passion”.

By referring to other people's kids as "low energy" you lost the very little credibility you might have had.

I need to dig back up that striver thread. You sound like the champion of it. Only someone who is totally insecure and didn't go to top schools would have a kid who was like yours. It is not because they are "high energy" or "super motivated" - it is because their parents are nuts. At some point it is too much and it is a sign that a kid is either being dominated by their parents or isn't comfortable in their own skin and needs to keep doing more things because they feel insecure. For many AO's at some point it becomes a negative, not a positive.

You must chill.

To the contrary, dh and I both went to T5 for college and grad school. Some people just do more. Others live on dcum and waste their time criticizing others. To each his own.

[Anonymous]

No one plays three varsity sports at big public schools. To make the varsity team, you have to play year round soccer, which means you can't also play lacrosse.

Indoor track isn't much of a varsity sport, really very low time commitment and isn't it usually no -cut? More like a club.