Mcps Rara educator KICKED AUTISTIC elementary student

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This thread is wild. I am an elementary school
arts teacher who teaches everyone in the school, including kids with autism and nonverbal. I would 100% never kick a child. But I would 100% definitely have a Diet Pepsi on my desk after lunch. I think parents have an unrealistic sense of what a school looks like.

As an arts teacher, you might not be seeing the most challenging situations. I know at my kids' school, paraeducators often float to students during specials. You have a very different environment than the home room.

At our elementary, all kids of all ages are dropped off at their specials — no teacher, no para. So kids with autism, developmental delays, ODD, and more. No adult stays with them other than the art/music/PE teacher. My job would be so much easier with another adult in the room.

Wow, that’s a lot. Is it a classic autism program? I know at our school the paras travel with the kids for specials.

It’s illegal. Parents must not know or they would complain.

I ask a lot of direct questions and I suspect I get lied to about this. There’s always heavy pauses when asked questions. I believe people are being asked to lie so the district won’t be forced to pay for placement changes. It’s a very deep hole they’ve dug themselves in and paras/teachers are left to deal with it. And ultimately, the kids are robbed of a quality education

No one will get private placement because their child didn’t have a para in specials, but the school will have to shuffle schedules to make sure going forward there’s one with each child that is entitled by their IEP.

Of course it’s more complicated than that. But numerous violations such as not having paras or people not shuffling schedules could result in a placement change. But what I was referring to is that schools will cover their behinds before telling parents that they did not have coverage or one to one support.

No one is getting private placement over anything remotely close to this. The school knows that- that's not why they're doing this.

Plus there isn't a claim the school doesn't have paraeducators. They just oddly aren't using them for specials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is wild. I am an elementary school
arts teacher who teaches everyone in the school, including kids with autism and nonverbal. I would 100% never kick a child. But I would 100% definitely have a Diet Pepsi on my desk after lunch. I think parents have an unrealistic sense of what a school looks like.

As an arts teacher, you might not be seeing the most challenging situations. I know at my kids' school, paraeducators often float to students during specials. You have a very different environment than the home room.

At our elementary, all kids of all ages are dropped off at their specials — no teacher, no para. So kids with autism, developmental delays, ODD, and more. No adult stays with them other than the art/music/PE teacher. My job would be so much easier with another adult in the room.

Wow, that’s a lot. Is it a classic autism program? I know at our school the paras travel with the kids for specials.

It’s illegal. Parents must not know or they would complain.

I ask a lot of direct questions and I suspect I get lied to about this. There’s always heavy pauses when asked questions. I believe people are being asked to lie so the district won’t be forced to pay for placement changes. It’s a very deep hole they’ve dug themselves in and paras/teachers are left to deal with it. And ultimately, the kids are robbed of a quality education

No one will get private placement because their child didn’t have a para in specials, but the school will have to shuffle schedules to make sure going forward there’s one with each child that is entitled by their IEP.

Of course it’s more complicated than that. But numerous violations such as not having paras or people not shuffling schedules could result in a placement change. But what I was referring to is that schools will cover their behinds before telling parents that they did not have coverage or one to one support.

No one is getting private placement over anything remotely close to this. The school knows that- that's not why they're doing this.

Plus there isn't a claim the school doesn't have paraeducators. They just oddly aren't using them for specials.

Ok. I guess the parents that I’ve spoken to about getting their children placed flat out lied about this being ONE of the many violations that helped them get private placement.

[Anonymous]

I've been a para in an autism classroom in MCPS, and I'm also the parent of a student with special needs.

Re: the actual incident in the classroom, I am assuming this happened in the Extensions program at Candlewood. If that program is at all similar to the autism program, then food rewards are a regular feature in the classroom - and if kids are being motivated with treats, they're going to be very interested in any foods brought out in the classroom, and they may not understand that food or drink in the classroom isn't for them. Not excusing the child for taking something that wasn't theirs, but it's entirely possible they didn't understand. Yes, paras sometimes go without breaks, but putting hands on or kicking a child isn't ever okay.

Re: the many PPs who are talking about private placements/kids who are in the wrong placement, there are two main issues. First, MCPS is pushing the home school model in elementary school hard, and it is harder to get a child into a program like SESES, autism, etc. Second, there are not nearly enough private placement spots to meet all of the need. Even if a family gets approved for a private placement (which is NOT easy), there is quite literally no guarantee there is a spot in a school that would be a good fit for that child's needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been a para in an autism classroom in MCPS, and I'm also the parent of a student with special needs.

Re: the actual incident in the classroom, I am assuming this happened in the Extensions program at Candlewood. If that program is at all similar to the autism program, then food rewards are a regular feature in the classroom - and if kids are being motivated with treats, they're going to be very interested in any foods brought out in the classroom, and they may not understand that food or drink in the classroom isn't for them. Not excusing the child for taking something that wasn't theirs, but it's entirely possible they didn't understand. Yes, paras sometimes go without breaks, but putting hands on or kicking a child isn't ever okay.

Re: the many PPs who are talking about private placements/kids who are in the wrong placement, there are two main issues. First, MCPS is pushing the home school model in elementary school hard, and it is harder to get a child into a program like SESES, autism, etc. Second, there are not nearly enough private placement spots to meet all of the need. Even if a family gets approved for a private placement (which is NOT easy), there is quite literally no guarantee there is a spot in a school that would be a good fit for that child's needs.

What kind of training did MCPS give you prior to your working with children that have special needs in the school system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a para in an autism classroom in MCPS, and I'm also the parent of a student with special needs.

Re: the actual incident in the classroom, I am assuming this happened in the Extensions program at Candlewood. If that program is at all similar to the autism program, then food rewards are a regular feature in the classroom - and if kids are being motivated with treats, they're going to be very interested in any foods brought out in the classroom, and they may not understand that food or drink in the classroom isn't for them. Not excusing the child for taking something that wasn't theirs, but it's entirely possible they didn't understand. Yes, paras sometimes go without breaks, but putting hands on or kicking a child isn't ever okay.

Re: the many PPs who are talking about private placements/kids who are in the wrong placement, there are two main issues. First, MCPS is pushing the home school model in elementary school hard, and it is harder to get a child into a program like SESES, autism, etc. Second, there are not nearly enough private placement spots to meet all of the need. Even if a family gets approved for a private placement (which is NOT easy), there is quite literally no guarantee there is a spot in a school that would be a good fit for that child's needs.

What kind of training did MCPS give you prior to your working with children that have special needs in the school system?

Zero. I got training on the job from the classroom teacher and other paras I worked with, and a month or so in MCPS sent me to CPI training, which is de-escalation and restraint training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a para in an autism classroom in MCPS, and I'm also the parent of a student with special needs.

Re: the actual incident in the classroom, I am assuming this happened in the Extensions program at Candlewood. If that program is at all similar to the autism program, then food rewards are a regular feature in the classroom - and if kids are being motivated with treats, they're going to be very interested in any foods brought out in the classroom, and they may not understand that food or drink in the classroom isn't for them. Not excusing the child for taking something that wasn't theirs, but it's entirely possible they didn't understand. Yes, paras sometimes go without breaks, but putting hands on or kicking a child isn't ever okay.

Re: the many PPs who are talking about private placements/kids who are in the wrong placement, there are two main issues. First, MCPS is pushing the home school model in elementary school hard, and it is harder to get a child into a program like SESES, autism, etc. Second, there are not nearly enough private placement spots to meet all of the need. Even if a family gets approved for a private placement (which is NOT easy), there is quite literally no guarantee there is a spot in a school that would be a good fit for that child's needs.

What kind of training did MCPS give you prior to your working with children that have special needs in the school system?

Wouldn't FAPE imply that any teacher that interacts with a SN student must have training in how to properly teach a student with a disability

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a para in an autism classroom in MCPS, and I'm also the parent of a student with special needs.

Re: the actual incident in the classroom, I am assuming this happened in the Extensions program at Candlewood. If that program is at all similar to the autism program, then food rewards are a regular feature in the classroom - and if kids are being motivated with treats, they're going to be very interested in any foods brought out in the classroom, and they may not understand that food or drink in the classroom isn't for them. Not excusing the child for taking something that wasn't theirs, but it's entirely possible they didn't understand. Yes, paras sometimes go without breaks, but putting hands on or kicking a child isn't ever okay.

Re: the many PPs who are talking about private placements/kids who are in the wrong placement, there are two main issues. First, MCPS is pushing the home school model in elementary school hard, and it is harder to get a child into a program like SESES, autism, etc. Second, there are not nearly enough private placement spots to meet all of the need. Even if a family gets approved for a private placement (which is NOT easy), there is quite literally no guarantee there is a spot in a school that would be a good fit for that child's needs.

What kind of training did MCPS give you prior to your working with children that have special needs in the school system?

Wouldn't FAPE imply that any teacher that interacts with a SN student must have training in how to properly teach a student with a disability

A teacher, sure, but supporting staff are frequently treated as an afterthought - and many trainings that are offered to teachers are not open to paras and other support staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a para in an autism classroom in MCPS, and I'm also the parent of a student with special needs.

Re: the actual incident in the classroom, I am assuming this happened in the Extensions program at Candlewood. If that program is at all similar to the autism program, then food rewards are a regular feature in the classroom - and if kids are being motivated with treats, they're going to be very interested in any foods brought out in the classroom, and they may not understand that food or drink in the classroom isn't for them. Not excusing the child for taking something that wasn't theirs, but it's entirely possible they didn't understand. Yes, paras sometimes go without breaks, but putting hands on or kicking a child isn't ever okay.

Re: the many PPs who are talking about private placements/kids who are in the wrong placement, there are two main issues. First, MCPS is pushing the home school model in elementary school hard, and it is harder to get a child into a program like SESES, autism, etc. Second, there are not nearly enough private placement spots to meet all of the need. Even if a family gets approved for a private placement (which is NOT easy), there is quite literally no guarantee there is a spot in a school that would be a good fit for that child's needs.

What kind of training did MCPS give you prior to your working with children that have special needs in the school system?

Wouldn't FAPE imply that any teacher that interacts with a SN student must have training in how to properly teach a student with a disability

If only we could count on MCPS to provide FAPE. Or for the legal system to enforce it.

[Anonymous]

The more I think about this, the more I think MCPS is scapegoating the para in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a para in an autism classroom in MCPS, and I'm also the parent of a student with special needs.

Re: the actual incident in the classroom, I am assuming this happened in the Extensions program at Candlewood. If that program is at all similar to the autism program, then food rewards are a regular feature in the classroom - and if kids are being motivated with treats, they're going to be very interested in any foods brought out in the classroom, and they may not understand that food or drink in the classroom isn't for them. Not excusing the child for taking something that wasn't theirs, but it's entirely possible they didn't understand. Yes, paras sometimes go without breaks, but putting hands on or kicking a child isn't ever okay.

Re: the many PPs who are talking about private placements/kids who are in the wrong placement, there are two main issues. First, MCPS is pushing the home school model in elementary school hard, and it is harder to get a child into a program like SESES, autism, etc. Second, there are not nearly enough private placement spots to meet all of the need. Even if a family gets approved for a private placement (which is NOT easy), there is quite literally no guarantee there is a spot in a school that would be a good fit for that child's needs.

What kind of training did MCPS give you prior to your working with children that have special needs in the school system?

Wouldn't FAPE imply that any teacher that interacts with a SN student must have training in how to properly teach a student with a disability

Paras aren’t teachers. Actual teachers and most student teachers do have a course in how to work with students with disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[url]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow that sounds pretty bad.

When first seeing the title, I was willing to get the paraeducator the benefit of the doubt. Where something might've been incidental contact and blown out of proportion. And not to offend anyone but being identified as Special Ed can be a very wide spectrum and for a variety of reasons.

But to be actually be able to kick a kid in the chest seems to be pretty deliberate.

No injury reported.

My guess is the para was sitting in a chair and she pushed the kid away with her foot when he grabbed her drink (which she absolutely should not have had in the classroom).

This is why you shouldn't bring in minimum wage untrained people off the street to care for disabled students.

Why not?

It was soda.

Are teachers prohibited from having soda?

No, but they obviously shouldn't have it in the classroom in front of students. Come on.

That isn’t reasonable.

Teachers can have soda in front of students. Some teachers have coffee or tea. Even energy drinks. This is ok.

No, in certain circumstances, it’s not ok to have those things in the classroom. For example, if a child has dietary restrictions but because of their disability has impulse control issues, the teachers and paras/other staff should be aware and make accommodations.

A child was kicked and this is what people choose to harp on?? No wonder so many adults get away with abuse. So many justifications for adults who should know better.

Do we know that there was a child in the classroom with a dietary restriction and an accommodation that staff could not have soda? Or are you creating a scenario because you want to micromanage other adults?

Not eating peanut products in a classroom where there are peanut allergic children is reasonable. Not eating any snack in a classroom because hypothetically a child might have a disorder related to that snack is not reasonable.

A child was kicked and this is what you’re worried about. No one is micromanaging anyone. It’s just a thought. Neither of us knows whether that child or another child in that room had dietary restriction. If it came out that there was a dietary restriction in this classroom, would that change your mind? Would you actually feel bad that the child was kicked? Some of you are focused on the stupidest things.

You wrote “ No, in certain circumstances, it’s not ok to have those things in the classroom. For example, if a child has dietary restrictions but because of their disability has impulse control issues, the teachers and paras/other staff should be aware and make accommodations.” And then you are angry that people point out that’s illogical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is wild. I am an elementary school
arts teacher who teaches everyone in the school, including kids with autism and nonverbal. I would 100% never kick a child. But I would 100% definitely have a Diet Pepsi on my desk after lunch. I think parents have an unrealistic sense of what a school looks like.

As an arts teacher, you might not be seeing the most challenging situations. I know at my kids' school, paraeducators often float to students during specials. You have a very different environment than the home room.

At our elementary, all kids of all ages are dropped off at their specials — no teacher, no para. So kids with autism, developmental delays, ODD, and more. No adult stays with them other than the art/music/PE teacher. My job would be so much easier with another adult in the room.

That sounds like a disaster unless your school aggressively seeks alternative placements.

Where do the 1:1s go during that time? Surely some kids must have 1:1s in your school.

We had maybe 3 kids with 1:1s last year, and during specials paras were on their break. School is in Silver Spring. It is the only MCPS school I have worked for so I’d love to know if it’s standard practice for paras to come to specials.

That's *highly* unusual. It's quite likely you're at the only elementary school that does that. You should ask your colleagues how that came to be.

While a little under one 1:1 per grade sounds about right, nearly all elementary schools group kids with IEPs into one or two classes at each grade level. At the lower grade levels, they'll often try to assign a dedicated paraeducator to the class. Sometimes two.

Given elopement risks, these classes need some support to simply get from one room to another. So even if the class is short on paraeducators, they will either pull another paraeducator from the grade for specials, or have the special education resource teacher staff the class.

I won't doubt anyone else's experience, but really you should accept that your perspective is not universal. I've been in MCPS almost 20 years and my current elementary school spreads IEP students across the grade level. Otherwise one or two teachers are stuck with all the meetings, paperwork, etc while the others have zero. I've found that approach to be more common than clustering them in one or two classes, but YMMV.

Similarly to PP's experience, in situations where a student has a bonafide 1:1 (versus just needing a ton of support) that person takes their personal break during specials, or they have coverage somewhere else, like recess, lunch, PreK rest time, etc. One (or two!) paras dedicated to one class? That I've never seen outside of PreK or PEP, but I suppose it does happen somewhere.

This school year, we have two students who are supposed to have 1:1s. Our school was granted one 6-hour position (the students are in different grades), so one student gets it for 3 hours and then the other student has a turn. What happens to the students on their non 1:1 hours? Take a guess. For every student who actually has a 1:1, there are probably 10 in my school that need one or come desperately close. There just aren't enough paras to go around, and specials are usually seen as a low priority, compared to supporting the learning in math and ELA. If a kid goes bezerk in art and the rest of the students have to evacuate and miss out, it won't impact them the same way missing a continuous math or phonics lesson would.

Art teacher, I 100% believe you and no, your school is not the only one that does that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been a para in an autism classroom in MCPS, and I'm also the parent of a student with special needs.

Re: the actual incident in the classroom, I am assuming this happened in the Extensions program at Candlewood. If that program is at all similar to the autism program, then food rewards are a regular feature in the classroom - and if kids are being motivated with treats, they're going to be very interested in any foods brought out in the classroom, and they may not understand that food or drink in the classroom isn't for them. Not excusing the child for taking something that wasn't theirs, but it's entirely possible they didn't understand. Yes, paras sometimes go without breaks, but putting hands on or kicking a child isn't ever okay.

Re: the many PPs who are talking about private placements/kids who are in the wrong placement, there are two main issues. First, MCPS is pushing the home school model in elementary school hard, and it is harder to get a child into a program like SESES, autism, etc. Second, there are not nearly enough private placement spots to meet all of the need. Even if a family gets approved for a private placement (which is NOT easy), there is quite literally no guarantee there is a spot in a school that would be a good fit for that child's needs.

What kind of training did MCPS give you prior to your working with children that have special needs in the school system?

Wouldn't FAPE imply that any teacher that interacts with a SN student must have training in how to properly teach a student with a disability

Paras aren’t teachers. Actual teachers and most student teachers do have a course in how to work with students with disabilities.

They are being used as teachers in many situations. They are relied on heavily. Some paras even take charge of a kid essentially the whole school day. Any adult interacting with a SN child with behaviors should have adequate training, especially if MCPS wants to claim that their staff are appropriately trained. The safety trainings provided by the district are a joke

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The more I think about this, the more I think MCPS is scapegoating the para in this case.

Care to elaborate?

[Anonymous]

I’m a veteran MCPS teacher, and while this makes me really sad, it unfortunately doesn’t really surprise me. Para educators make incredibly low pay and have terrible benefits. The majority of the people who apply for these jobs are unmotivated, unequipped, and incompetent. In my opinion, the para educator structure is just a CYA to say that students with disabilities have an extra educator in the room. In practice, it’s the lead teacher doing all of the accommodating while also meeting the needs of everyone else.