MCSL rule changes for summer 2026

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents who don’t want club swimmers in summer leagues, start new league for teams that don’t allow club swimmers, problem solved

No one is saying that. But attendance at a certain number of practices in order to be able to participate in a meet or game is not uncommon in sports. Club swimming parents just feel their kids should be exempted from anything like this, which I find interesting.

Honestly, having the club kids at practice takes up lane space from the kids that only practice with the summer team. This is why our team doesn’t care if the club kids don’t come to summer practice. The practices are crowded enough as it is, you don’t need to make it worse when the club kids are already practicing elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

You’ll lose the older kids who have club swim 6 days a week in morning and jobs right after.
My club swimmer tried to do at least once a week. Sometimes more. He also had club meets some weeks that made mcsl practices impossible to attend. You can’t enforce minimums because many families travel in summer or working parents can’t make 10 am practices for their younger kids.

I mean, it's ok if summer swim doesn't work for your family.

So we should make up rules so that it won’t work for even more families?

On our team, every parent with a significant volunteer job (A or B meet rep, event organizer, official, etc.) is the parent of a club swimmer. The team would completely fall apart if these families weren’t running things.

It just seems like a burden to you to have your kids participate in summer swim due to their heavy commitment with club swim. Like if they literally can't attend summer practices at all, why bother?

They enjoy the meets and their other friends that swim as well as the overall vibe. So as long as it's enjoyable and fun for them, we continue to participate despite not being able to make many practices.

+1. And their non-club swim friends on the summer swim team want to win meets. Many posters keep forgetting that summer swim is for the kids - both club and non-club kids. It's up to THEM who they want on their teams. The club kids are their friends from school, many of whom they grew up with over many years.

DP - so we should let the KIDS make up the rules for summer swim? Please. We're the adults, or we're supposed to be.

FWIW, I'm a club swim parent who thinks there should be minimum requirements for summer practice. Twice a week - heck, even once - is really not that heavy a lift.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

You’ll lose the older kids who have club swim 6 days a week in morning and jobs right after.
My club swimmer tried to do at least once a week. Sometimes more. He also had club meets some weeks that made mcsl practices impossible to attend. You can’t enforce minimums because many families travel in summer or working parents can’t make 10 am practices for their younger kids.

I mean, it's ok if summer swim doesn't work for your family.

So we should make up rules so that it won’t work for even more families?

On our team, every parent with a significant volunteer job (A or B meet rep, event organizer, official, etc.) is the parent of a club swimmer. The team would completely fall apart if these families weren’t running things.

It just seems like a burden to you to have your kids participate in summer swim due to their heavy commitment with club swim. Like if they literally can't attend summer practices at all, why bother?

They enjoy the meets and their other friends that swim as well as the overall vibe. So as long as it's enjoyable and fun for them, we continue to participate despite not being able to make many practices.

+1. And their non-club swim friends on the summer swim team want to win meets. Many posters keep forgetting that summer swim is for the kids - both club and non-club kids. It's up to THEM who they want on their teams. The club kids are their friends from school, many of whom they grew up with over many years.

DP - so we should let the KIDS make up the rules for summer swim? Please. We're the adults, or we're supposed to be.

FWIW, I'm a club swim parent who thinks there should be minimum requirements for summer practice. Twice a week - heck, even once - is really not that heavy a lift.

If the kids on the team don’t care that the club swimmers don’t have a practice requirement, why do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

You’ll lose the older kids who have club swim 6 days a week in morning and jobs right after.
My club swimmer tried to do at least once a week. Sometimes more. He also had club meets some weeks that made mcsl practices impossible to attend. You can’t enforce minimums because many families travel in summer or working parents can’t make 10 am practices for their younger kids.

I mean, it's ok if summer swim doesn't work for your family.

So we should make up rules so that it won’t work for even more families?

On our team, every parent with a significant volunteer job (A or B meet rep, event organizer, official, etc.) is the parent of a club swimmer. The team would completely fall apart if these families weren’t running things.

It just seems like a burden to you to have your kids participate in summer swim due to their heavy commitment with club swim. Like if they literally can't attend summer practices at all, why bother?

They enjoy the meets and their other friends that swim as well as the overall vibe. So as long as it's enjoyable and fun for them, we continue to participate despite not being able to make many practices.

+1. And their non-club swim friends on the summer swim team want to win meets. Many posters keep forgetting that summer swim is for the kids - both club and non-club kids. It's up to THEM who they want on their teams. The club kids are their friends from school, many of whom they grew up with over many years.

DP - so we should let the KIDS make up the rules for summer swim? Please. We're the adults, or we're supposed to be.

FWIW, I'm a club swim parent who thinks there should be minimum requirements for summer practice. Twice a week - heck, even once - is really not that heavy a lift.

If the kids on the team don’t care that the club swimmers don’t have a practice requirement, why do you?

How do you know if the kids care or not? Have you polled them? At our pool it's the coaches and parent reps that make these kind of decisions. YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents who don’t want club swimmers in summer leagues, start new league for teams that don’t allow club swimmers, problem solved

No one is saying that. But attendance at a certain number of practices in order to be able to participate in a meet or game is not uncommon in sports. Club swimming parents just feel their kids should be exempted from anything like this, which I find interesting.

Honestly, having the club kids at practice takes up lane space from the kids that only practice with the summer team. This is why our team doesn’t care if the club kids don’t come to summer practice. The practices are crowded enough as it is, you don’t need to make it worse when the club kids are already practicing elsewhere.

And do the kids even know this issue exists? The club swimmers are mainly swimming A meets anyway, so the kids that only swim B meets are unlikely to overlap with those swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

You’ll lose the older kids who have club swim 6 days a week in morning and jobs right after.
My club swimmer tried to do at least once a week. Sometimes more. He also had club meets some weeks that made mcsl practices impossible to attend. You can’t enforce minimums because many families travel in summer or working parents can’t make 10 am practices for their younger kids.

I mean, it's ok if summer swim doesn't work for your family.

So we should make up rules so that it won’t work for even more families?

On our team, every parent with a significant volunteer job (A or B meet rep, event organizer, official, etc.) is the parent of a club swimmer. The team would completely fall apart if these families weren’t running things.

It just seems like a burden to you to have your kids participate in summer swim due to their heavy commitment with club swim. Like if they literally can't attend summer practices at all, why bother?

They enjoy the meets and their other friends that swim as well as the overall vibe. So as long as it's enjoyable and fun for them, we continue to participate despite not being able to make many practices.

+1. And their non-club swim friends on the summer swim team want to win meets. Many posters keep forgetting that summer swim is for the kids - both club and non-club kids. It's up to THEM who they want on their teams. The club kids are their friends from school, many of whom they grew up with over many years.

DP - so we should let the KIDS make up the rules for summer swim? Please. We're the adults, or we're supposed to be.

FWIW, I'm a club swim parent who thinks there should be minimum requirements for summer practice. Twice a week - heck, even once - is really not that heavy a lift.

If the kids on the team don’t care that the club swimmers don’t have a practice requirement, why do you?

How do you know if the kids care or not? Have you polled them? At our pool it's the coaches and parent reps that make these kind of decisions. YMMV.

In all the years I’ve been involved in swimming I’ve not heard a kid complain that Joey doesn’t go to summer practice but still gets to swim in A meets. This is definitely a parent driven complaint. Joey’s mom or dad thinks it’s unfair that Johnny gets to swim in A meets when Joey diligently comes to summer practice every day. The kids seem to better understand than the adults that swimming is a timed sport and the clock doesn’t lie. It seems from reading this forum that the adults love to try and muck up even the most objective of sports by not just following times and causing unnecessary drama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

You’ll lose the older kids who have club swim 6 days a week in morning and jobs right after.
My club swimmer tried to do at least once a week. Sometimes more. He also had club meets some weeks that made mcsl practices impossible to attend. You can’t enforce minimums because many families travel in summer or working parents can’t make 10 am practices for their younger kids.

I mean, it's ok if summer swim doesn't work for your family.

So we should make up rules so that it won’t work for even more families?

On our team, every parent with a significant volunteer job (A or B meet rep, event organizer, official, etc.) is the parent of a club swimmer. The team would completely fall apart if these families weren’t running things.

It just seems like a burden to you to have your kids participate in summer swim due to their heavy commitment with club swim. Like if they literally can't attend summer practices at all, why bother?

They enjoy the meets and their other friends that swim as well as the overall vibe. So as long as it's enjoyable and fun for them, we continue to participate despite not being able to make many practices.

+1. And their non-club swim friends on the summer swim team want to win meets. Many posters keep forgetting that summer swim is for the kids - both club and non-club kids. It's up to THEM who they want on their teams. The club kids are their friends from school, many of whom they grew up with over many years.

DP - so we should let the KIDS make up the rules for summer swim? Please. We're the adults, or we're supposed to be.

FWIW, I'm a club swim parent who thinks there should be minimum requirements for summer practice. Twice a week - heck, even once - is really not that heavy a lift.

If the kids on the team don’t care that the club swimmers don’t have a practice requirement, why do you?

How do you know if the kids care or not? Have you polled them? At our pool it's the coaches and parent reps that make these kind of decisions. YMMV.

In all the years I’ve been involved in swimming I’ve not heard a kid complain that Joey doesn’t go to summer practice but still gets to swim in A meets. This is definitely a parent driven complaint. Joey’s mom or dad thinks it’s unfair that Johnny gets to swim in A meets when Joey diligently comes to summer practice every day. The kids seem to better understand than the adults that swimming is a timed sport and the clock doesn’t lie. It seems from reading this forum that the adults love to try and muck up even the most objective of sports by not just following times and causing unnecessary drama.

DP - given how opinionated you are on this topic, any kid who has an issue with lack of practice requirements sure isn't going to discuss it in front of you.

Moreover, kids often don't care about things that adults think are important. Because they're kids. It's great to let kids have a voice, but that doesn't mean they're the decision-makers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

You’ll lose the older kids who have club swim 6 days a week in morning and jobs right after.
My club swimmer tried to do at least once a week. Sometimes more. He also had club meets some weeks that made mcsl practices impossible to attend. You can’t enforce minimums because many families travel in summer or working parents can’t make 10 am practices for their younger kids.

I mean, it's ok if summer swim doesn't work for your family.

So we should make up rules so that it won’t work for even more families?

On our team, every parent with a significant volunteer job (A or B meet rep, event organizer, official, etc.) is the parent of a club swimmer. The team would completely fall apart if these families weren’t running things.

It just seems like a burden to you to have your kids participate in summer swim due to their heavy commitment with club swim. Like if they literally can't attend summer practices at all, why bother?

They enjoy the meets and their other friends that swim as well as the overall vibe. So as long as it's enjoyable and fun for them, we continue to participate despite not being able to make many practices.

+1. And their non-club swim friends on the summer swim team want to win meets. Many posters keep forgetting that summer swim is for the kids - both club and non-club kids. It's up to THEM who they want on their teams. The club kids are their friends from school, many of whom they grew up with over many years.

DP - so we should let the KIDS make up the rules for summer swim? Please. We're the adults, or we're supposed to be.

FWIW, I'm a club swim parent who thinks there should be minimum requirements for summer practice. Twice a week - heck, even once - is really not that heavy a lift.

When you go to 8 club practices a week, where you are swimming 6-7000 meters, you aren’t going to disrupt your club swimming to skip practice to attend a summer practice where you might swimming 300. Some club swimmers don’t swim as much and might be able to attend a summer practice but the top swimmers don’t have the luxury of skipping practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

You’ll lose the older kids who have club swim 6 days a week in morning and jobs right after.
My club swimmer tried to do at least once a week. Sometimes more. He also had club meets some weeks that made mcsl practices impossible to attend. You can’t enforce minimums because many families travel in summer or working parents can’t make 10 am practices for their younger kids.

I mean, it's ok if summer swim doesn't work for your family.

So we should make up rules so that it won’t work for even more families?

On our team, every parent with a significant volunteer job (A or B meet rep, event organizer, official, etc.) is the parent of a club swimmer. The team would completely fall apart if these families weren’t running things.

It just seems like a burden to you to have your kids participate in summer swim due to their heavy commitment with club swim. Like if they literally can't attend summer practices at all, why bother?

They enjoy the meets and their other friends that swim as well as the overall vibe. So as long as it's enjoyable and fun for them, we continue to participate despite not being able to make many practices.

+1. And their non-club swim friends on the summer swim team want to win meets. Many posters keep forgetting that summer swim is for the kids - both club and non-club kids. It's up to THEM who they want on their teams. The club kids are their friends from school, many of whom they grew up with over many years.

DP - so we should let the KIDS make up the rules for summer swim? Please. We're the adults, or we're supposed to be.

FWIW, I'm a club swim parent who thinks there should be minimum requirements for summer practice. Twice a week - heck, even once - is really not that heavy a lift.

If the kids on the team don’t care that the club swimmers don’t have a practice requirement, why do you?

How do you know if the kids care or not? Have you polled them? At our pool it's the coaches and parent reps that make these kind of decisions. YMMV.

In all the years I’ve been involved in swimming I’ve not heard a kid complain that Joey doesn’t go to summer practice but still gets to swim in A meets. This is definitely a parent driven complaint. Joey’s mom or dad thinks it’s unfair that Johnny gets to swim in A meets when Joey diligently comes to summer practice every day. The kids seem to better understand than the adults that swimming is a timed sport and the clock doesn’t lie. It seems from reading this forum that the adults love to try and muck up even the most objective of sports by not just following times and causing unnecessary drama.

DP - given how opinionated you are on this topic, any kid who has an issue with lack of practice requirements sure isn't going to discuss it in front of you.

Moreover, kids often don't care about things that adults think are important. Because they're kids. It's great to let kids have a voice, but that doesn't mean they're the decision-makers.

You’re essentially acknowledging this is a parent issue. It’s an 8 week rec league, so yeah I think the parents need to put aside their annoyance that the faster club swimmer goes to A meets over their summer only swimmer, even though the summer only swimmer goes to all the summer league practices. It’s not like the club kids aren’t practicing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

You’ll lose the older kids who have club swim 6 days a week in morning and jobs right after.
My club swimmer tried to do at least once a week. Sometimes more. He also had club meets some weeks that made mcsl practices impossible to attend. You can’t enforce minimums because many families travel in summer or working parents can’t make 10 am practices for their younger kids.

I mean, it's ok if summer swim doesn't work for your family.

So we should make up rules so that it won’t work for even more families?

On our team, every parent with a significant volunteer job (A or B meet rep, event organizer, official, etc.) is the parent of a club swimmer. The team would completely fall apart if these families weren’t running things.

It just seems like a burden to you to have your kids participate in summer swim due to their heavy commitment with club swim. Like if they literally can't attend summer practices at all, why bother?

They enjoy the meets and their other friends that swim as well as the overall vibe. So as long as it's enjoyable and fun for them, we continue to participate despite not being able to make many practices.

+1. And their non-club swim friends on the summer swim team want to win meets. Many posters keep forgetting that summer swim is for the kids - both club and non-club kids. It's up to THEM who they want on their teams. The club kids are their friends from school, many of whom they grew up with over many years.

DP - so we should let the KIDS make up the rules for summer swim? Please. We're the adults, or we're supposed to be.

FWIW, I'm a club swim parent who thinks there should be minimum requirements for summer practice. Twice a week - heck, even once - is really not that heavy a lift.

If the kids on the team don’t care that the club swimmers don’t have a practice requirement, why do you?

How do you know if the kids care or not? Have you polled them? At our pool it's the coaches and parent reps that make these kind of decisions. YMMV.

In all the years I’ve been involved in swimming I’ve not heard a kid complain that Joey doesn’t go to summer practice but still gets to swim in A meets. This is definitely a parent driven complaint. Joey’s mom or dad thinks it’s unfair that Johnny gets to swim in A meets when Joey diligently comes to summer practice every day. The kids seem to better understand than the adults that swimming is a timed sport and the clock doesn’t lie. It seems from reading this forum that the adults love to try and muck up even the most objective of sports by not just following times and causing unnecessary drama.

DP - given how opinionated you are on this topic, any kid who has an issue with lack of practice requirements sure isn't going to discuss it in front of you.

Moreover, kids often don't care about things that adults think are important. Because they're kids. It's great to let kids have a voice, but that doesn't mean they're the decision-makers.

You’re essentially acknowledging this is a parent issue. It’s an 8 week rec league, so yeah I think the parents need to put aside their annoyance that the faster club swimmer goes to A meets over their summer only swimmer, even though the summer only swimmer goes to all the summer league practices. It’s not like the club kids aren’t practicing.

I can't say I've heard about this as a big issue at our pool, but I agree that summer swim is akin to a rec league. I can't think of another sport where club team players come participate in a Saturday rec game depite not attending any of the rec practices. So I can understand why some parent might be upset about this. Now with summer swim there are also B meets, so there's that. But I don't think a requirement for a minimal participation in practices (1-2 days) is crazy. Again, I think most of the club members at our pool do that anyway, I guess we're not overrun with large numbers high level swimmers that have daily club practice even in the summer..

[Anonymous]

Forgive me if I’m repeating an earlier comment as I didn’t read all 11 pages. Would be Greta for MCSL to actually remind summer teams about the county policies for lifeguards. Any time anyone is in the water there must be a ready to rescue life guard. Not a life guard working as a coach, a ready to rescue lifeguard!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

You’ll lose the older kids who have club swim 6 days a week in morning and jobs right after.
My club swimmer tried to do at least once a week. Sometimes more. He also had club meets some weeks that made mcsl practices impossible to attend. You can’t enforce minimums because many families travel in summer or working parents can’t make 10 am practices for their younger kids.

I mean, it's ok if summer swim doesn't work for your family.

So we should make up rules so that it won’t work for even more families?

On our team, every parent with a significant volunteer job (A or B meet rep, event organizer, official, etc.) is the parent of a club swimmer. The team would completely fall apart if these families weren’t running things.

It just seems like a burden to you to have your kids participate in summer swim due to their heavy commitment with club swim. Like if they literally can't attend summer practices at all, why bother?

They enjoy the meets and their other friends that swim as well as the overall vibe. So as long as it's enjoyable and fun for them, we continue to participate despite not being able to make many practices.

+1. And their non-club swim friends on the summer swim team want to win meets. Many posters keep forgetting that summer swim is for the kids - both club and non-club kids. It's up to THEM who they want on their teams. The club kids are their friends from school, many of whom they grew up with over many years.

DP - so we should let the KIDS make up the rules for summer swim? Please. We're the adults, or we're supposed to be.

FWIW, I'm a club swim parent who thinks there should be minimum requirements for summer practice. Twice a week - heck, even once - is really not that heavy a lift.

If the kids on the team don’t care that the club swimmers don’t have a practice requirement, why do you?

How do you know if the kids care or not? Have you polled them? At our pool it's the coaches and parent reps that make these kind of decisions. YMMV.

In all the years I’ve been involved in swimming I’ve not heard a kid complain that Joey doesn’t go to summer practice but still gets to swim in A meets. This is definitely a parent driven complaint. Joey’s mom or dad thinks it’s unfair that Johnny gets to swim in A meets when Joey diligently comes to summer practice every day. The kids seem to better understand than the adults that swimming is a timed sport and the clock doesn’t lie. It seems from reading this forum that the adults love to try and muck up even the most objective of sports by not just following times and causing unnecessary drama.

DP - given how opinionated you are on this topic, any kid who has an issue with lack of practice requirements sure isn't going to discuss it in front of you.

Moreover, kids often don't care about things that adults think are important. Because they're kids. It's great to let kids have a voice, but that doesn't mean they're the decision-makers.

You’re essentially acknowledging this is a parent issue. It’s an 8 week rec league, so yeah I think the parents need to put aside their annoyance that the faster club swimmer goes to A meets over their summer only swimmer, even though the summer only swimmer goes to all the summer league practices. It’s not like the club kids aren’t practicing.

I can't say I've heard about this as a big issue at our pool, but I agree that summer swim is akin to a rec league. I can't think of another sport where club team players come participate in a Saturday rec game depite not attending any of the rec practices. So I can understand why some parent might be upset about this. Now with summer swim there are also B meets, so there's that. But I don't think a requirement for a minimal participation in practices (1-2 days) is crazy. Again, I think most of the club members at our pool do that anyway, I guess we're not overrun with large numbers high level swimmers that have daily club practice even in the summer..

All summer kids get to swim B meets and a chance to win ribbons. Some summer kids may get to swim A meets (e.g., top 6 for freestyle). Club kids get to swim A meets, and some clubs prohibit them from swimming B meets.

Summer kids get 4x-5x days a week of summer practice. Club kids get their club practices and a chance to swim summer practices if they want. If they don't, summer kids get less crowded lanes.

Sound like ALL kids get a chance to practice and swim meets.

What's the problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents who don’t want club swimmers in summer leagues, start new league for teams that don’t allow club swimmers, problem solved

No one is saying that. But attendance at a certain number of practices in order to be able to participate in a meet or game is not uncommon in sports. Club swimming parents just feel their kids should be exempted from anything like this, which I find interesting.

Honestly, having the club kids at practice takes up lane space from the kids that only practice with the summer team. This is why our team doesn’t care if the club kids don’t come to summer practice. The practices are crowded enough as it is, you don’t need to make it worse when the club kids are already practicing elsewhere.

And do the kids even know this issue exists? The club swimmers are mainly swimming A meets anyway, so the kids that only swim B meets are unlikely to overlap with those swimmers.

I think that is the rub. They don't see any problems with not going to the crowded practices. "It's too crowded anyway you should appreciate us not bringing our kids", which by the way we do appreciate. But then, they crowd out the recreational swimmers from the A meets by taking lanes and not leaving any, which we don't appreciate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

Anonymous wrote:

Totally disagree. Our summer team practices are already crowded. To cater to another group of kids would require more lanes. We appreciate that the "summer only" swimmers get to take over the practices.

I think there is already a rule in MCSL that kids are expected to attend all practices. It just isn't enforced because it would have to be enforced by the coaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

DP - I've seen the bolded argument made so many times and I think it's overblown. Is club swim mostly more intense than summer swim? Yes, absolutely. But the best clubs find ways to make practices fun, build a sense of community, and develop supportive teammates. Not all clubs foster an insanely cut-throat, in it for myself mentality. On our summer team at least, it's usually the year-round swimmers who are the best teammates, in the truest sense of the word.

But to that point, here's another rule I think MCSL should have: all kids should participate in a minimum of two practices per week, regardless of club commitments. It's not much of a team when the ringers come in on Saturdays only and clean up. Or, it leads to two very different "teams" within the larger team. That's not much fun, either.

Anonymous wrote:

Totally disagree. Our summer team practices are already crowded. To cater to another group of kids would require more lanes. We appreciate that the "summer only" swimmers get to take over the practices.

Anonymous wrote:
I think there is already a rule in MCSL that kids are expected to attend all practices. It just isn't enforced because it would have to be enforced by the coaches.

Here it is https://mcsl.org/dynamic/code-of-conduct swimmers code 2.

2. I will attend every practice and meet that I can and will notify my coach if I cannot.

Rules for the not for me says the swimmers elite.