The voucher effect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular boundary review, 24/7 security team, possible failure to comply with Title IX, vouchers part of BBB, are a perfect storm.

If the school board fails to step in now, these B-level politicians won’t have any political future.

No doubt it makes you feel good to say that, but what's happening now is just more of the same from the School Board, and we've got Storck, Smith, and Palchik (all former School Board members) sitting on the Board of Supervisors; Cohen, Keys Gamarra, and Pekarsky (former School Board members) sitting in the state legislature; and Moon and Sizemore-Heizer (current School Board members) the likely successor to Walkinshaw on the Board of Supervisors. There have been a few School Board members whose political ambitions have been thwarted (Frisch lost a primary for state house of delegates, McElveen lost a primary for Board of Supervisors chair, and Moon lost a prior election for the Braddock seat on the Board of Supervisors), but mostly these folks rise through the ranks by being Democrats and having more name recognition than other candidates.

The things that you think will create a perfect storm, depending on how they play out, could put a few local seats (Dranesville, Springfield, Sully, and maybe an at-large seat) in play, but that's about it. That would change the dynamics somewhat because having a few members on the SB or BOS from the other party means the decisions of the majority may get challenged in public settings (think of Schultz when she was on the SB and Herrity on the BOS now) as opposed to rubber-stamped. But we live in a blue county, and voters in low-information elections will continue to vote blue, especially when you've got MAGA Republicans at the national level constantly looking for new ways to throw local residents out of work.

Correct. FCPS will steadily come to resemble the reality in Baltimore: Democratic control, poorly-performing schools and a robust private school market.

The current private school market in Fairfax is anything but robust (at present I'd argue there's really only one high-quality private in the entire county), but I agree that decisions by the School Board that are unpopular with MC and UMC families will - as will the promotion of vouchers at the federal and state level - increase the demand for private school options.

There already is a ton of demand. At least for the high quality privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular boundary review, 24/7 security team, possible failure to comply with Title IX, vouchers part of BBB, are a perfect storm.

If the school board fails to step in now, these B-level politicians won’t have any political future.

No doubt it makes you feel good to say that, but what's happening now is just more of the same from the School Board, and we've got Storck, Smith, and Palchik (all former School Board members) sitting on the Board of Supervisors; Cohen, Keys Gamarra, and Pekarsky (former School Board members) sitting in the state legislature; and Moon and Sizemore-Heizer (current School Board members) the likely successor to Walkinshaw on the Board of Supervisors. There have been a few School Board members whose political ambitions have been thwarted (Frisch lost a primary for state house of delegates, McElveen lost a primary for Board of Supervisors chair, and Moon lost a prior election for the Braddock seat on the Board of Supervisors), but mostly these folks rise through the ranks by being Democrats and having more name recognition than other candidates.

The things that you think will create a perfect storm, depending on how they play out, could put a few local seats (Dranesville, Springfield, Sully, and maybe an at-large seat) in play, but that's about it. That would change the dynamics somewhat because having a few members on the SB or BOS from the other party means the decisions of the majority may get challenged in public settings (think of Schultz when she was on the SB and Herrity on the BOS now) as opposed to rubber-stamped. But we live in a blue county, and voters in low-information elections will continue to vote blue, especially when you've got MAGA Republicans at the national level constantly looking for new ways to throw local residents out of work.

Correct. FCPS will steadily come to resemble the reality in Baltimore: Democratic control, poorly-performing schools and a robust private school market.

The current private school market in Fairfax is anything but robust (at present I'd argue there's really only one high-quality private in the entire county), but I agree that decisions by the School Board that are unpopular with MC and UMC families will - as will the promotion of vouchers at the federal and state level - increase the demand for private school options.

There already is a ton of demand. At least for the high quality privates.

A robust market would imply supply is keeping up with the demand. It doesn't, so people who express interests in private schools regularly end up back at the public schools.

What new 9-12 private schools have been created in Fairfax County in the past 20 years that have really established a name for themselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s going to be so much fun watching the absolute meltdowns when vouchers are approved in VA. Can hardly wait.

MAGAs get off on hurting others.

Proponents of vouchers believe they help families by making more choices possible and/or placing pressure on public school systems to be more responsive to parents.

So irrational. If you take away funding from public schools, how are they in any position to do anything better? Vouchers won’t help public schools.

“More responsive to parents”? WTF? FCPS exists to educate all students in Fairfax County. Not cater to ridiculous parents.

DP.

Vouchers can keep the school board tethered to less extreme positions. Vouchers do hurt the system, but unfortunately are useful when the school board stops feeling accountable to constituents. In this case unfortunately because of one party rule.

-a Harris voter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s going to be so much fun watching the absolute meltdowns when vouchers are approved in VA. Can hardly wait.

MAGAs get off on hurting others.

Proponents of vouchers believe they help families by making more choices possible and/or placing pressure on public school systems to be more responsive to parents.

So irrational. If you take away funding from public schools, how are they in any position to do anything better? Vouchers won’t help public schools.

“More responsive to parents”? WTF? FCPS exists to educate all students in Fairfax County. Not cater to ridiculous parents.

DP.

Vouchers can keep the school board tethered to less extreme positions. Vouchers do hurt the system, but unfortunately are useful when the school board stops feeling accountable to constituents. In this case unfortunately because of one party rule.

-a Harris voter

Vouchers aren’t going steer the boat, they can only sink it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s going to be so much fun watching the absolute meltdowns when vouchers are approved in VA. Can hardly wait.

MAGAs get off on hurting others.

Proponents of vouchers believe they help families by making more choices possible and/or placing pressure on public school systems to be more responsive to parents.

So irrational. If you take away funding from public schools, how are they in any position to do anything better? Vouchers won’t help public schools.

“More responsive to parents”? WTF? FCPS exists to educate all students in Fairfax County. Not cater to ridiculous parents.

It's not exactly news that much funding is determined on a per student basis and follows students. Fewer students = less funding.

Calling every parent with whom you disagree "ridiculous" or a "MAGA idiot" is the type of offensive rhetoric that got Youngkin elected. In your world, FCPS families are like the proverbial children and women at the dinner table who were expected to sit but not be heard. The only difference is that in this case "sitting" means paying ever-increasing taxes.

You voted for Youngkin because someone called you MAGA? So irrational, just like I said.

You are making up oddball narratives here. I don’t call every parent with whom I disagree “ridiculous” or “MAGA”, just the ones who are. And FCPS parents have plenty of ways to engage with FCPS.

They can talk at school board meetings for a strict sixty seconds while the school board members scroll their phones. They can talk amongst themselves about pre-scripted topics at feedback sessions. Any other meaningful engagement? Or is that it? Because I’m not aware of any others and would love to hear about them

Voting
Email / phone SB members
Committees
PTA
FCPTA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s going to be so much fun watching the absolute meltdowns when vouchers are approved in VA. Can hardly wait.

MAGAs get off on hurting others.

Proponents of vouchers believe they help families by making more choices possible and/or placing pressure on public school systems to be more responsive to parents.

So irrational. If you take away funding from public schools, how are they in any position to do anything better? Vouchers won’t help public schools.

“More responsive to parents”? WTF? FCPS exists to educate all students in Fairfax County. Not cater to ridiculous parents.

It's not exactly news that much funding is determined on a per student basis and follows students. Fewer students = less funding.

Calling every parent with whom you disagree "ridiculous" or a "MAGA idiot" is the type of offensive rhetoric that got Youngkin elected. In your world, FCPS families are like the proverbial children and women at the dinner table who were expected to sit but not be heard. The only difference is that in this case "sitting" means paying ever-increasing taxes.

You voted for Youngkin because someone called you MAGA? So irrational, just like I said.

You are making up oddball narratives here. I don’t call every parent with whom I disagree “ridiculous” or “MAGA”, just the ones who are. And FCPS parents have plenty of ways to engage with FCPS.

I voted for Youngkin because I found McAuliffe obnoxious and repellant. And then I also voted mostly for Democrats for other state and local elections, and entirely for Democrats for national office, although not entirely for Democrats in the 2023 School Board elections.

You seem incapable of recognizing that people may have more nuanced views than you give them credit for. Sometimes the only way to try and steer the ship back towards the middle is to mix it up.

You voted for a MAGA candidate. Own it.

Yeah..

"I voted for a Trump-backed candidate because the Democrat was annoying." is truly a wild statement.

Its not "nuanced". Its just laughable.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think vouchers will probably happen in VA. Youngkin will support them. And for some kids they’ll make a positive difference—kids whose parents can almost but not quite afford elite privates.

I don’t think that’s the majority of kids. And, there is not enough elite private capacity in this area to wholesale absorb FCPS. So the majority of kids will either get a less well-funded public experience or a second-third rate private experience. So on balance vouchers will leave the area worse off.

Vouchers are a scam

And I completely see how this happened. FCPS has made it extremely clear that they have no interest in supporting working families (leaving aside the boundary studies— all the early dismissals, prolonged closures, etc) and they’ve had a million excuses. But at the end of the day when you don’t support the parents they don’t support you…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
And I completely see how this happened. FCPS has made it extremely clear that they have no interest in supporting working families (leaving aside the boundary studies— all the early dismissals, prolonged closures, etc) and they’ve had a million excuses. But at the end of the day when you don’t support the parents they don’t support you…

Bingo.

There are so many ways this School Board has antagonized parents in recent years. The current boundary study is a big example, but it's not the only one.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Does the voucher system say the private school HAVE TO accept disabled and differently abled students?

Thought so.

While you might be right, I think you’re missing the broader point that parents are going to look out for their own kids first. Only after that will you get altruism.

Look no further than the boundary change proponent who argued first for her kid not to be moved.

This comment illustrates exactly why vouchers should not exist. Because it only benefits children who have parents who are in a position - financially or logistically - to opt out of the public school system and into a private system. And all of those children who do not have parents of privilege who can facilitate this are left in a deteriorating public school system with fewer resources and less opportunity.

People who are not altruistic until their kids are taken care of will never become altruistic.

Your second paragraph is BS. I’ve gladly supported public schools and even more money going to schools that need it. But when the school board wants to use my kid as their resource, that’s where they’ve lost me.

I get you want to villainize those who care about their own kids more than the collective, but you’re really out of the mainstream. If you disagree with that point, drive through the liberal bastion of Timber Lane and see what those yard signs tell you.

Explain how vouchers will help you and your kid? What is your projection that in 3 years, an amazing charters will acquire acres of land that magically have a built school ready for kids with certified teachers? That can’t be it, that just happened to FCPS without vouchers.

What are you looking for that you think 13K will help you find. Keep in mind there will be over 100K other families who will be competing with you.

DP but there are already very decent private options in the FCPS area, that a $13,000 discount on would be significant.

And you assume YOUR kid will be the one to get the spot over the 100K others? Kay.

Yes, because within that “100,000” are kids who are better served by public schools, kids who don’t ideologically align with a particular private school, and parents for whom the rest of the bill would still be too steep a barrier.

Just not YOUR kids will be better served by public schools because you don’t. I’m sorry, but there WILL be increased competition for the slots. And because of that competition, tuition rates will rise and in order to keep the riff raff out. For example, donations will be expected. The more you donate over 13k, the higher your chances your kid will be accepted.

Not for ALL privates of course, you can always go to the other ones.

And this is what you think is best for your kids.

Sure we could still be priced out. But we could also be in a school which valued us more than FCPS does.

Sweetie, they don’t value you or your child more than FCPS. They would however value your money more than FCPS does. And if you fall for that, that your value is what you pay and how elite it makes you feel, you can be manipulated by private schools and many others all day long. It is that exact feeling that has created Trump’s Chumps.

DP. Aren't the bigger chumps those in FCPS who are alienating once-loyal parents through their misguided priorities and overt hostility towards anyone who dares challenge them?

No one is bigger than Trump’s chumps because he is federal level. Of course the school board is awful. It was clear in 2023 when this started that it would be a disaster. I wrote to them and said they were shooting FCPS in the foot because this was a HORRIBLE time to attempt this.

But the posters on here arguing for vouchers are just as short sighted as the school board because they cannot answer how vouchers is going to help them with their anger on this and help the community. With a fractured school system (charters, privates etc) everyone’s real estate will tank every more than with the school board policy.

It would help by giving us better access to schools that keep children in classrooms for instruction, and have schedules and policies that respect parents. Is that mostly clear?

I’m sorry. No private school worth its weight is going to be opening its doors to FCPS refugees with vouchers in hand. You are being optimistic.

What’s the alternative? Blind support for a system which doesn’t value parents?

You can smell those who aren't at risk of unnecessary redistricting and are zoned for schools that haven't been shortchanged by the FCPS powers-that-be. It kind of reeks.

Not really. I’m just being a realist. I have a lot of issues with the FCPS status quo but I doubt vouchers and being on the crosshairs of the federal government are going to help. I think people are hoping this BS will pacify the board to drop the boundary issue and overall improve FCPS. I think vouchers are just going to exacerbate FCPS’s downfall. And yes having a voucher might help out family then pay for private school. But what secular schools in the area will be open to new students and are just as good as our current high school? Like honestly. Not a SB fan. But this ain’t it, people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the voucher system say the private school HAVE TO accept disabled and differently abled students?

Thought so.

While you might be right, I think you’re missing the broader point that parents are going to look out for their own kids first. Only after that will you get altruism.

Look no further than the boundary change proponent who argued first for her kid not to be moved.

This comment illustrates exactly why vouchers should not exist. Because it only benefits children who have parents who are in a position - financially or logistically - to opt out of the public school system and into a private system. And all of those children who do not have parents of privilege who can facilitate this are left in a deteriorating public school system with fewer resources and less opportunity.

People who are not altruistic until their kids are taken care of will never become altruistic.

Your second paragraph is BS. I’ve gladly supported public schools and even more money going to schools that need it. But when the school board wants to use my kid as their resource, that’s where they’ve lost me.

I get you want to villainize those who care about their own kids more than the collective, but you’re really out of the mainstream. If you disagree with that point, drive through the liberal bastion of Timber Lane and see what those yard signs tell you.

Explain how vouchers will help you and your kid? What is your projection that in 3 years, an amazing charters will acquire acres of land that magically have a built school ready for kids with certified teachers? That can’t be it, that just happened to FCPS without vouchers.

What are you looking for that you think 13K will help you find. Keep in mind there will be over 100K other families who will be competing with you.

DP but there are already very decent private options in the FCPS area, that a $13,000 discount on would be significant.

And you assume YOUR kid will be the one to get the spot over the 100K others? Kay.

Yes, because within that “100,000” are kids who are better served by public schools, kids who don’t ideologically align with a particular private school, and parents for whom the rest of the bill would still be too steep a barrier.

Just not YOUR kids will be better served by public schools because you don’t. I’m sorry, but there WILL be increased competition for the slots. And because of that competition, tuition rates will rise and in order to keep the riff raff out. For example, donations will be expected. The more you donate over 13k, the higher your chances your kid will be accepted.

Not for ALL privates of course, you can always go to the other ones.

And this is what you think is best for your kids.

Sure we could still be priced out. But we could also be in a school which valued us more than FCPS does.

Sweetie, they don’t value you or your child more than FCPS. They would however value your money more than FCPS does. And if you fall for that, that your value is what you pay and how elite it makes you feel, you can be manipulated by private schools and many others all day long. It is that exact feeling that has created Trump’s Chumps.

DP. Aren't the bigger chumps those in FCPS who are alienating once-loyal parents through their misguided priorities and overt hostility towards anyone who dares challenge them?

No one is bigger than Trump’s chumps because he is federal level. Of course the school board is awful. It was clear in 2023 when this started that it would be a disaster. I wrote to them and said they were shooting FCPS in the foot because this was a HORRIBLE time to attempt this.

But the posters on here arguing for vouchers are just as short sighted as the school board because they cannot answer how vouchers is going to help them with their anger on this and help the community. With a fractured school system (charters, privates etc) everyone’s real estate will tank every more than with the school board policy.

It would help by giving us better access to schools that keep children in classrooms for instruction, and have schedules and policies that respect parents. Is that mostly clear?

I’m sorry. No private school worth its weight is going to be opening its doors to FCPS refugees with vouchers in hand. You are being optimistic.

What’s the alternative? Blind support for a system which doesn’t value parents?

You can smell those who aren't at risk of unnecessary redistricting and are zoned for schools that haven't been shortchanged by the FCPS powers-that-be. It kind of reeks.

Not really. I’m just being a realist. I have a lot of issues with the FCPS status quo but I doubt vouchers and being on the crosshairs of the federal government are going to help. I think people are hoping this BS will pacify the board to drop the boundary issue and overall improve FCPS. I think vouchers are just going to exacerbate FCPS’s downfall. And yes having a voucher might help out family then pay for private school. But what secular schools in the area will be open to new students and are just as good as our current high school? Like honestly. Not a SB fan. But this ain’t it, people.

But it is “it” for my family. I never considered putting my kid in private school before this school board was seated, but it looks more and more likely each day that they march on with the boundary BS.

I don’t want to take my proverbial ball and go home, I’d much rather support public schools, but if the school board is going to pick a fight with families in neighborhoods like mine, then that’s the result.

Btw, I think vouchers just exacerbate the impact, because I think this will happen even absent vouchers if they go through with boundary changes.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone really think FCPS would mind a mass exodus or is it already baked into their long range plan? Look at the recent staffing cuts and class size increases. Wouldn’t your local school benefit from a %10 drop in enrollment?

Also, wasn’t there a thread a while back about how the FCPS budget has increased by a billion dollars, from 3 billion to four billion, over the course of a less than five years? If they could get by on 25% less with the current level of enrollment a few years ago, I imagine they could figure it out with a reduced enrollment.

Vouchers aren’t leverage, they are just a choice. Choice is good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone really think FCPS would mind a mass exodus or is it already baked into their long range plan? Look at the recent staffing cuts and class size increases. Wouldn’t your local school benefit from a %10 drop in enrollment?

Also, wasn’t there a thread a while back about how the FCPS budget has increased by a billion dollars, from 3 billion to four billion, over the course of a less than five years? If they could get by on 25% less with the current level of enrollment a few years ago, I imagine they could figure it out with a reduced enrollment.

Vouchers aren’t leverage, they are just a choice. Choice is good.

A mass exodus of UMC families that degrades the schools to the point that FCPS takes a reputational hit?

I’m not sure how to spin that as a win for FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Parochial schools in FFX Cty cost somewhere around $12k. My kids small private costs $9k. Other private Christian schools I’ve seen costs $15k. Just googled what FCPS spend per student and see figures from $20-25k. Vouchers for even half that would open doors for a lot of people and put quite a bit of extra money back into FCPS pocket. Seems like a win-win.

IMO, teachers and school boards are against vouchers bc it could only expose more of their incompetence. Public school parents are opposed bc they are more all-in on the indoctrination goal than seeing other people happily go about their lives and opting out of their weirdo schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone really think FCPS would mind a mass exodus or is it already baked into their long range plan? Look at the recent staffing cuts and class size increases. Wouldn’t your local school benefit from a %10 drop in enrollment?

Also, wasn’t there a thread a while back about how the FCPS budget has increased by a billion dollars, from 3 billion to four billion, over the course of a less than five years? If they could get by on 25% less with the current level of enrollment a few years ago, I imagine they could figure it out with a reduced enrollment.

Vouchers aren’t leverage, they are just a choice. Choice is good.

A mass exodus of UMC families that degrades the schools to the point that FCPS takes a reputational hit?

I’m not sure how to spin that as a win for FCPS.

+1 who will keep the standardized test scores afloat once they leave?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parochial schools in FFX Cty cost somewhere around $12k. My kids small private costs $9k. Other private Christian schools I’ve seen costs $15k. Just googled what FCPS spend per student and see figures from $20-25k. Vouchers for even half that would open doors for a lot of people and put quite a bit of extra money back into FCPS pocket. Seems like a win-win.

IMO, teachers and school boards are against vouchers bc it could only expose more of their incompetence. Public school parents are opposed bc they are more all-in on the indoctrination goal than seeing other people happily go about their lives and opting out of their weirdo schools.

“Indoctrination goal” You sound like a Moms for Liberty shill.