The voucher effect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems only voucher enthusiastics are vocal on this debate.

I, as a FCPS parent, do not support vouchers. They are not going to solve problems in public education. If you don't like the politics (DEI, empathy, religious neutral) of FCPS, then spend your own money to find the school you like. I support your right to choose but not your right to take the money out.

But those supporting vouchers are putting money in as well, often a good bit more money than others with kids in FCPS.

When a supposed public good no longer really functions as a public good, but instead as a sandbox for those with a particular agenda, it’s no surprise that people want to abandon the charade.

I’d feel differently if FCPS was well run, but the incompetence gets worse every year while the politicization of FCPS only increases. FCPS has become the NPR of public school systems.

First, I do not consider "NPR" as a derogatory term. Second, I don't know what you are talking about. How can you say with a straight face that FCPS "no longer really functions as a public good".

We live in different realities.

+1

RWNJs pushing BS talking points to push their agenda.

You can’t deal with the merits as to why so many are disappointed with FCPS, so you resort to the usual insults, such as slurs like “RWNJ.” The irony is it only reveals your own low brows.

LOL. “public good no longer really functions as a public good” is pure BS.

If you had a serious complaint based in reality you’d get a serious response. But you get what you deserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems only voucher enthusiastics are vocal on this debate.

I, as a FCPS parent, do not support vouchers. They are not going to solve problems in public education. If you don't like the politics (DEI, empathy, religious neutral) of FCPS, then spend your own money to find the school you like. I support your right to choose but not your right to take the money out.

But those supporting vouchers are putting money in as well, often a good bit more money than others with kids in FCPS.

When a supposed public good no longer really functions as a public good, but instead as a sandbox for those with a particular agenda, it’s no surprise that people want to abandon the charade.

I’d feel differently if FCPS was well run, but the incompetence gets worse every year while the politicization of FCPS only increases. FCPS has become the NPR of public school systems.

First, I do not consider "NPR" as a derogatory term. Second, I don't know what you are talking about. How can you say with a straight face that FCPS "no longer really functions as a public good".

We live in different realities.

+1

RWNJs pushing BS talking points to push their agenda.

I started this voucher thread, but just made sizeable donations to NPR and PBS this week. So to the extent you think it’s just RWNJs pushing their agenda, I happily disabuse you of that notion.

I am generally in favor of public schools, but the school board’s unnecessary comprehensive boundary review is causing me to swiftly reevaluate that support.

School districts shift boundaries all of the time. But this one makes you want to give up on public and push RWNJ talking points. Sounds feasible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems only voucher enthusiastics are vocal on this debate.

I, as a FCPS parent, do not support vouchers. They are not going to solve problems in public education. If you don't like the politics (DEI, empathy, religious neutral) of FCPS, then spend your own money to find the school you like. I support your right to choose but not your right to take the money out.

I actually align pretty closely with the politics you laid out above and I still think FCPS is going the way of vouchers. What you lay out I think really motivates about 5% of people.


But most parents have jobs. All the narrative about school not being childcare is fine— but most parents have jobs and want their kids in school five days per week. Early dismissal Monday’s when no other local district did that totally ruined FCPS’ credibility for me.

You know they provide free childcare on early release monday, right? Do try to keep up.

https://fairfaxgop.org/limited-early-release-mondays-for-2024-25-school-year/

We encourage all parents/caregivers to have their student take their normal route home (bus, walk, kiss and ride) on early dismissal days. While these are designated as early release days — where necessary — we will ensure that every student has supervised enrichment activities at the school and returns home at the regular time if that is what works best for your family. Licensed educators from central office will support schools as well. High-impact tutoring will be available for identified students.

This is a great example of how FCPS alienates parents.

You could take one second to think about the experience of a working parent given the choice between taking 6 more days off from work (which they may or may not have) or let their kid be stuffed into an auditorium on a laptop for four hours, which is what the “free childcare” was.

Or you can double down on how no one has a right to want more from their taxpayer-funded system. And that doubling down leads to support for vouchers. Because parents do want more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems only voucher enthusiastics are vocal on this debate.

I, as a FCPS parent, do not support vouchers. They are not going to solve problems in public education. If you don't like the politics (DEI, empathy, religious neutral) of FCPS, then spend your own money to find the school you like. I support your right to choose but not your right to take the money out.

But those supporting vouchers are putting money in as well, often a good bit more money than others with kids in FCPS.

When a supposed public good no longer really functions as a public good, but instead as a sandbox for those with a particular agenda, it’s no surprise that people want to abandon the charade.

I’d feel differently if FCPS was well run, but the incompetence gets worse every year while the politicization of FCPS only increases. FCPS has become the NPR of public school systems.

First, I do not consider "NPR" as a derogatory term. Second, I don't know what you are talking about. How can you say with a straight face that FCPS "no longer really functions as a public good".

We live in different realities.

+1

RWNJs pushing BS talking points to push their agenda.

You can’t deal with the merits as to why so many are disappointed with FCPS, so you resort to the usual insults, such as slurs like “RWNJ.” The irony is it only reveals your own low brows.

LOL. “public good no longer really functions as a public good” is pure BS.

If you had a serious complaint based in reality you’d get a serious response. But you get what you deserve.

One need only look at the superintendent who seeks to enrich herself at our expense, the school board that cares little about academic excellence but a lot about their future political careers, the many unnecessary expenditures (for example, Nardos King’s silly fiefdom), the waste of capital resources, the pointless and bungled ongoing boundary review, and the declining test scores to see FCPS has lost its way. These are the types of things that drive support for vouchers and raise questions as to whether FCPS truly continues to be a “public good.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems only voucher enthusiastics are vocal on this debate.

I, as a FCPS parent, do not support vouchers. They are not going to solve problems in public education. If you don't like the politics (DEI, empathy, religious neutral) of FCPS, then spend your own money to find the school you like. I support your right to choose but not your right to take the money out.

But those supporting vouchers are putting money in as well, often a good bit more money than others with kids in FCPS.

When a supposed public good no longer really functions as a public good, but instead as a sandbox for those with a particular agenda, it’s no surprise that people want to abandon the charade.

I’d feel differently if FCPS was well run, but the incompetence gets worse every year while the politicization of FCPS only increases. FCPS has become the NPR of public school systems.

First, I do not consider "NPR" as a derogatory term. Second, I don't know what you are talking about. How can you say with a straight face that FCPS "no longer really functions as a public good".

We live in different realities.

+1

RWNJs pushing BS talking points to push their agenda.

You can’t deal with the merits as to why so many are disappointed with FCPS, so you resort to the usual insults, such as slurs like “RWNJ.” The irony is it only reveals your own low brows.

LOL. “public good no longer really functions as a public good” is pure BS.

If you had a serious complaint based in reality you’d get a serious response. But you get what you deserve.

One need only look at the superintendent who seeks to enrich herself at our expense, the school board that cares little about academic excellence but a lot about their future political careers, the many unnecessary expenditures (for example, Nardos King’s silly fiefdom), the waste of capital resources, the pointless and bungled ongoing boundary review, and the declining test scores to see FCPS has lost its way. These are the types of things that drive support for vouchers and raise questions as to whether FCPS truly continues to be a “public good.”

Just stop trying to engage with that PP. they see us all as nut jobs bc we are fed up with fcps leadership. There is a lot to be upset about.

I’m ready for vouchers. Let the $ follow the child. Money talks and I hope fcps will start to listen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back on topic-

The threat of vouchers is real, and rather than alienate key constituencies, the school board should really put a pause to the comprehensive changes and instead focus on the one or two schools that actually need relief now.

I, too, have problems with the boundary study. However, there are a lot of parents who have concerns far beyond boundaries. Title IX, for example.

Sure, happy to discuss those too. Vouchers and the threat of vouchers will serve as a check on this school board’s worst impulses.

I don't think it will. If vouchers actually cause people to leave FCPS (debatable), those leaving will largely be the people opposed to the board. Therefore remaining parents are more likely to agree with board, or to not care.

- NP who opposes vouchers AND a lot of what FCPS does, but wouldn't mind if a certain segment of complainers left

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems only voucher enthusiastics are vocal on this debate.

I, as a FCPS parent, do not support vouchers. They are not going to solve problems in public education. If you don't like the politics (DEI, empathy, religious neutral) of FCPS, then spend your own money to find the school you like. I support your right to choose but not your right to take the money out.

I actually align pretty closely with the politics you laid out above and I still think FCPS is going the way of vouchers. What you lay out I think really motivates about 5% of people.


But most parents have jobs. All the narrative about school not being childcare is fine— but most parents have jobs and want their kids in school five days per week. Early dismissal Monday’s when no other local district did that totally ruined FCPS’ credibility for me.

You know they provide free childcare on early release monday, right? Do try to keep up.

https://fairfaxgop.org/limited-early-release-mondays-for-2024-25-school-year/

We encourage all parents/caregivers to have their student take their normal route home (bus, walk, kiss and ride) on early dismissal days. While these are designated as early release days — where necessary — we will ensure that every student has supervised enrichment activities at the school and returns home at the regular time if that is what works best for your family. Licensed educators from central office will support schools as well. High-impact tutoring will be available for identified students.

This is a great example of how FCPS alienates parents.

You could take one second to think about the experience of a working parent given the choice between taking 6 more days off from work (which they may or may not have) or let their kid be stuffed into an auditorium on a laptop for four hours, which is what the “free childcare” was.

Or you can double down on how no one has a right to want more from their taxpayer-funded system. And that doubling down leads to support for vouchers. Because parents do want more.

Do you even know what they do in those 4 hours. Stop making up stuff.

[Anonymous]

Public money should be put into public institutions. That is the whole point of the taxation system.

When we allow public money to be pulled out and distributed to individuals for private uses, it degrades the public institutions that no longer get that money. They now need to do the same with less.

Public schools exist because in our country we collectively agree that providing a free and appropriate education to every single child is a worthwhile venture. Over the decades, we have seen a greater share of resources going to meet the increasing needs of our children that are education-adjacent. Things like making sure children are fed so that they can learn better, providing increased transportation services to ensure that they can get to school safely, and ensuring that all children have equal access to educational opportunities.

Public school will never be the best solution for every family - it couldn't possibly be so because families and children come with so many different needs and desired educational outcomes. But it does the best that it can to provide for the greatest number of children that it can.

If families feel that the public school system is inadequate for their children or if they are unsatisfied with it in some way, they are more than welcome to pursue alternative educational opportunities for their children. But if those alternatives come at a cost, then they should pay for it themselves.

Public tax dollars should go to support the public educational system that we as a society have built and sustained expressly for that society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems only voucher enthusiastics are vocal on this debate.

I, as a FCPS parent, do not support vouchers. They are not going to solve problems in public education. If you don't like the politics (DEI, empathy, religious neutral) of FCPS, then spend your own money to find the school you like. I support your right to choose but not your right to take the money out.

I actually align pretty closely with the politics you laid out above and I still think FCPS is going the way of vouchers. What you lay out I think really motivates about 5% of people.


But most parents have jobs. All the narrative about school not being childcare is fine— but most parents have jobs and want their kids in school five days per week. Early dismissal Monday’s when no other local district did that totally ruined FCPS’ credibility for me.

You know they provide free childcare on early release monday, right? Do try to keep up.

https://fairfaxgop.org/limited-early-release-mondays-for-2024-25-school-year/

We encourage all parents/caregivers to have their student take their normal route home (bus, walk, kiss and ride) on early dismissal days. While these are designated as early release days — where necessary — we will ensure that every student has supervised enrichment activities at the school and returns home at the regular time if that is what works best for your family. Licensed educators from central office will support schools as well. High-impact tutoring will be available for identified students.

This is a great example of how FCPS alienates parents.

You could take one second to think about the experience of a working parent given the choice between taking 6 more days off from work (which they may or may not have) or let their kid be stuffed into an auditorium on a laptop for four hours, which is what the “free childcare” was.

Or you can double down on how no one has a right to want more from their taxpayer-funded system. And that doubling down leads to support for vouchers. Because parents do want more.

Do you even know what they do in those 4 hours. Stop making up stuff.

It’s Wednesday this year. You can see sample schedules for student activities:

https://www.fcps.edu/family-resources/safety-and-transportation/limited-early-release-wednesdays

[Anonymous]

Group 1

12:30 | Arrival
12:45 - 1:15 | Quiet Time/Snack
1:15 - 1:45 | Physical Activity
1:45 - 2:15 | Laptop Time/Sub Time
2:15 - 2:45 | Board Games
2:45 - 3:15 | Reading/Library
3:15 - 3:30 | Dismissal
Group 2

12:30 | Arrival
12:45 - 1:15 | Quiet Time/Snack
1:15 - 1:45 | Laptop Time/Sub Time
1:45 - 2:15 | Physical Activity
2:15 - 2:45 | Reading/Library
2:45 - 3:15 | Board Games
3:15 - 3:30 | Dismissal
Group 3

12:30 | Arrival
12:45 - 1:15 | Quiet Time/Snack
1:15 - 1:45 | Crafts
1:45 - 2:15 | Reading/Library
2:15 - 2:45 | Schoolwork/Homework
2:45 - 3:15 | Singing/Dancing
3:15 - 3:30 | Dismissal
Group 4

12:30 | Arrival
12:45 - 1:15 | Quiet Time/Snack
1:15 - 1:45 | Board Games
1:45 - 2:15 | Schoolwork/Homework
2:15 - 2:45 | Singing/Dancing
2:45 - 3:15 | Laptop Time/ Sub time
3:15 - 3:30 | Dismissal
PTAs and community clubs may offer events and activities if they choose to do so. Parents will need to opt in for their student(s) to participate in these types of activities and events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems only voucher enthusiastics are vocal on this debate.

I, as a FCPS parent, do not support vouchers. They are not going to solve problems in public education. If you don't like the politics (DEI, empathy, religious neutral) of FCPS, then spend your own money to find the school you like. I support your right to choose but not your right to take the money out.

I actually align pretty closely with the politics you laid out above and I still think FCPS is going the way of vouchers. What you lay out I think really motivates about 5% of people.


But most parents have jobs. All the narrative about school not being childcare is fine— but most parents have jobs and want their kids in school five days per week. Early dismissal Monday’s when no other local district did that totally ruined FCPS’ credibility for me.

You know they provide free childcare on early release monday, right? Do try to keep up.

https://fairfaxgop.org/limited-early-release-mondays-for-2024-25-school-year/

We encourage all parents/caregivers to have their student take their normal route home (bus, walk, kiss and ride) on early dismissal days. While these are designated as early release days — where necessary — we will ensure that every student has supervised enrichment activities at the school and returns home at the regular time if that is what works best for your family. Licensed educators from central office will support schools as well. High-impact tutoring will be available for identified students.

This is a great example of how FCPS alienates parents.

You could take one second to think about the experience of a working parent given the choice between taking 6 more days off from work (which they may or may not have) or let their kid be stuffed into an auditorium on a laptop for four hours, which is what the “free childcare” was.

Or you can double down on how no one has a right to want more from their taxpayer-funded system. And that doubling down leads to support for vouchers. Because parents do want more.

Do you even know what they do in those 4 hours. Stop making up stuff.

It’s Wednesday this year. You can see sample schedules for student activities:

https://www.fcps.edu/family-resources/safety-and-transportation/limited-early-release-wednesdays

In another word, laptop time for academic apps are one of the seven options. That's not the reason to advocate for voucher. At least not for reasonable parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems only voucher enthusiastics are vocal on this debate.

I, as a FCPS parent, do not support vouchers. They are not going to solve problems in public education. If you don't like the politics (DEI, empathy, religious neutral) of FCPS, then spend your own money to find the school you like. I support your right to choose but not your right to take the money out.

But those supporting vouchers are putting money in as well, often a good bit more money than others with kids in FCPS.

When a supposed public good no longer really functions as a public good, but instead as a sandbox for those with a particular agenda, it’s no surprise that people want to abandon the charade.

I’d feel differently if FCPS was well run, but the incompetence gets worse every year while the politicization of FCPS only increases. FCPS has become the NPR of public school systems.

First, I do not consider "NPR" as a derogatory term. Second, I don't know what you are talking about. How can you say with a straight face that FCPS "no longer really functions as a public good".

We live in different realities.

+1

RWNJs pushing BS talking points to push their agenda.

You can’t deal with the merits as to why so many are disappointed with FCPS, so you resort to the usual insults, such as slurs like “RWNJ.” The irony is it only reveals your own low brows.

LOL. “public good no longer really functions as a public good” is pure BS.

If you had a serious complaint based in reality you’d get a serious response. But you get what you deserve.

One need only look at the superintendent who seeks to enrich herself at our expense, the school board that cares little about academic excellence but a lot about their future political careers, the many unnecessary expenditures (for example, Nardos King’s silly fiefdom), the waste of capital resources, the pointless and bungled ongoing boundary review, and the declining test scores to see FCPS has lost its way. These are the types of things that drive support for vouchers and raise questions as to whether FCPS truly continues to be a “public good.”

More RWNJ propaganda. You sound like that nut bag, Asra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public money should be put into public institutions. That is the whole point of the taxation system.

When we allow public money to be pulled out and distributed to individuals for private uses, it degrades the public institutions that no longer get that money. They now need to do the same with less.

Public schools exist because in our country we collectively agree that providing a free and appropriate education to every single child is a worthwhile venture. Over the decades, we have seen a greater share of resources going to meet the increasing needs of our children that are education-adjacent. Things like making sure children are fed so that they can learn better, providing increased transportation services to ensure that they can get to school safely, and ensuring that all children have equal access to educational opportunities.

Public school will never be the best solution for every family - it couldn't possibly be so because families and children come with so many different needs and desired educational outcomes. But it does the best that it can to provide for the greatest number of children that it can.

If families feel that the public school system is inadequate for their children or if they are unsatisfied with it in some way, they are more than welcome to pursue alternative educational opportunities for their children. But if those alternatives come at a cost, then they should pay for it themselves.

Public tax dollars should go to support the public educational system that we as a society have built and sustained expressly for that society.

Very well said.

The only thing you have wrong is that Republicans no longer believe that a "free and appropriate education to every single child is a worthwhile venture". Not sure that they ever did...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public money should be put into public institutions. That is the whole point of the taxation system.

When we allow public money to be pulled out and distributed to individuals for private uses, it degrades the public institutions that no longer get that money. They now need to do the same with less.

Public schools exist because in our country we collectively agree that providing a free and appropriate education to every single child is a worthwhile venture. Over the decades, we have seen a greater share of resources going to meet the increasing needs of our children that are education-adjacent. Things like making sure children are fed so that they can learn better, providing increased transportation services to ensure that they can get to school safely, and ensuring that all children have equal access to educational opportunities.

Public school will never be the best solution for every family - it couldn't possibly be so because families and children come with so many different needs and desired educational outcomes. But it does the best that it can to provide for the greatest number of children that it can.

If families feel that the public school system is inadequate for their children or if they are unsatisfied with it in some way, they are more than welcome to pursue alternative educational opportunities for their children. But if those alternatives come at a cost, then they should pay for it themselves.

Public tax dollars should go to support the public educational system that we as a society have built and sustained expressly for that society.

There's always a decision to be made as to how much money should go to public schools. FCPS claims it never has enough money, but it mismanages an extremely large operating budget and an extremely large capital budget.

If less money goes its way, but definition those funds will no longer be "public money." We can earmark more money for families to use on education, or we can simply leave more money in the pockets of families to use as they see fit.

FCPS could stem the rising resentment by focusing on the things that really matter to the users of its services, but that now seems increasingly unlikely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public money should be put into public institutions. That is the whole point of the taxation system.

When we allow public money to be pulled out and distributed to individuals for private uses, it degrades the public institutions that no longer get that money. They now need to do the same with less.

Public schools exist because in our country we collectively agree that providing a free and appropriate education to every single child is a worthwhile venture. Over the decades, we have seen a greater share of resources going to meet the increasing needs of our children that are education-adjacent. Things like making sure children are fed so that they can learn better, providing increased transportation services to ensure that they can get to school safely, and ensuring that all children have equal access to educational opportunities.

Public school will never be the best solution for every family - it couldn't possibly be so because families and children come with so many different needs and desired educational outcomes. But it does the best that it can to provide for the greatest number of children that it can.

If families feel that the public school system is inadequate for their children or if they are unsatisfied with it in some way, they are more than welcome to pursue alternative educational opportunities for their children. But if those alternatives come at a cost, then they should pay for it themselves.

Public tax dollars should go to support the public educational system that we as a society have built and sustained expressly for that society.

Very well said.

The only thing you have wrong is that Republicans no longer believe that a "free and appropriate education to every single child is a worthwhile venture". Not sure that they ever did...

+1