WIC..pay for each item separately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ungracious"? Are you serious? I guess when -- or perhaps I should say, "if" -- you offer to buy a meal for a homeless person on the street, you do so only if that person eats at McDonald's, even if he or she would prefer to have sandwich with fresh ingredients.... You must have invented the wonderful phrase, "Beggars can't be choosers." I really hope that you re-examine your values.

My values are fine, thank you. And yes, I think it is ungracious to complain that the brands of wheat bread offered are not ones that you like, or that the fruits and vegetables provided are not organic. Nobody is suggesting that WIC recipients are required to eat unhealthy food, or offering them McDonalds. And yes, if you are getting something for free, you don't have a right to have it be exactly what you want. You absolutely do have a right to receive healthy food in line with the program goals. It would be like giving a homeless person a gray coat to keep them warm, and having them say, "Gee, I would really prefer a blue one."

If you read back over these responses I don't think people are actually complaining that they didn't like the color of a coat. They're complaining because they are not given the opportunity to make healthful choices for their family. And guess what? They really don't care if you think they are "gracious" or not.

[Anonymous]

They really don't care if you think they are "gracious" or not.

Then why are they complaining about it here?

[Anonymous]

"They're complaining because they are not given the opportunity to make healthful choices for their family. "

That's not the goal of the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ungracious"? Are you serious? I guess when -- or perhaps I should say, "if" -- you offer to buy a meal for a homeless person on the street, you do so only if that person eats at McDonald's, even if he or she would prefer to have sandwich with fresh ingredients.... You must have invented the wonderful phrase, "Beggars can't be choosers." I really hope that you re-examine your values.

My values are fine, thank you. And yes, I think it is ungracious to complain that the brands of wheat bread offered are not ones that you like, or that the fruits and vegetables provided are not organic. Nobody is suggesting that WIC recipients are required to eat unhealthy food, or offering them McDonalds. And yes, if you are getting something for free, you don't have a right to have it be exactly what you want. You absolutely do have a right to receive healthy food in line with the program goals. It would be like giving a homeless person a gray coat to keep them warm, and having them say, "Gee, I would really prefer a blue one."

If you read back over these responses I don't think people are actually complaining that they didn't like the color of a coat. They're complaining because they are not given the opportunity to make healthful choices for their family. And guess what? They really don't care if you think they are "gracious" or not.

Again, why WIC (and many of these other programs don't work). Which is why I find it strange so many people are defending them so strongly.

[Anonymous]

"Which is why I find it strange so many people are defending them so strongly. "

In this thread, it's more of calling B.S. on the hags that don't like waiting in line behind WIC recipients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"They're complaining because they are not given the opportunity to make healthful choices for their family. "

That's not the goal of the program.

WIC is supplemental. It is not supposed to provide for every "healthful choice" you want to make for your family. Use your own funds or food stamps for that purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am Jewish, and my religion obligates me to give to those less fortunate. It is considered very honorable to give when neither party knows the other party's identity, less honorable to give when the giver knows the recipient's identity but the recipient doesn't know the giver's identity, and even less honorable to give when the recipient knows the giver's identity. The point is that the recipient should not be embarassed and the giver should not use giving as a reason to pat him/herself on the back (or worse, be patted on the back by the recipient.) So the PP's tale of adopting a Christmas family, showing up at their home, and then getting into a huff because she didn't like their manners or their nice TV kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

It is of course nice if people say thank you. It's nice in every situation if people are pleasant and polite. But I do think less of someone who conditions charitable giving on some kind of behavioral expectation from the recipient.

I don't think it's a terrible thing that the PP was a little surprised, negatively, by the recipient's response. We're all a little shocked when someone who seems to be doing so nice is expecting/needing/wanting help in some other, more basic, area.

You're also right in that donor and recipient are best kept separated. The chances for something negative happening -- either in the recipient's shame or the donor's revulsion -- are simply too great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"They're complaining because they are not given the opportunity to make healthful choices for their family. "

That's not the goal of the program.

"The mission of the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) is to improve the lifelong health and nutrition of pregnant women, new mothers (breastfeeding and non-breastfeeding), infants, and children"

http://dchealth.dc.gov/doh/cwp/view,a,1371,q,581969,dohNav_GID,1801,dohNav,%7C33183%7C,.asp

[Anonymous]

I think the complaint about only being able to buy certain brands is more from the fact that you cannot substitute other brands that are essentially the same product. Because stores run out of the approved brands, and then you are stuck.

Look at the list of approved brands for the WIC program here in DC.

http://dchealth.dc.gov/doh/frames.asp?doc=/doh/lib/doh/services/wic/pdf/food_guide_sept2009.pdf

They do allow a choice of 100% whole wheat bread, which is good. But look under oats:


For oatmeal, there are only two choices listed: Mom’s Best Naturals Quick Whole Oats and Mother’s Rolled Whole Oats. I've never even seen those oatmeals. What about just plain Giant brand slow cooking oats? Or Quaker Oats?

I have to say, though, that the choices look a lot better than 15 years ago, when my sister was using this program. I can see that it would be a pain to have to add up certain combinations and so on, but it's a decent enough program, if people don't sneer at you for having to use it.

Hard to imagine someone "getting rich" off of this fee milk, Cheerios, and oats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"They're complaining because they are not given the opportunity to make healthful choices for their family. "

That's not the goal of the program.

"The mission of the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) is to improve the lifelong health and nutrition of pregnant women, new mothers (breastfeeding and non-breastfeeding), infants, and children"

http://dchealth.dc.gov/doh/cwp/view,a,1371,q,581969,dohNav_GID,1801,dohNav,%7C33183%7C,.asp

No part of that indicates that the program is 1. designed to provide the entire nutrition for recipients or 2. intended to allow recipients access to their choice of organic or specialty items.

[Anonymous]

http://fha.maryland.gov/pdf/wic/MomBabyFoods-English.pdf

The monthly food list for a mom and a fully breastfeeding infant 6-11 months includes (in Maryland)


Fruits and Vegetables
• $10.00 check for fresh, frozen, and canned vegetables and fruit
• 3 12-ounce cans of fruit juice concentrate

Grains
• 36 ounces of breakfast cereal
• 16 ounces of 100% whole wheat bread, brown rice, soft corn tortillas, or whole
wheat tortillas

Milk/Cheese
• 5 gallons plus 1 quart of low fat (1%) or fat free milk
• 2 pounds of cheese

Protein Foods
• 2 dozen eggs
• 1 pound dry or 4 cans of beans, peas,
or lentils
• 18-ounce jar of peanut butter
• 30 ounces of canned fish


for baby:

24 ounces of baby cereal
• 64 jars of baby fruits and vegetables
• 31 jars of baby meats


According to the fda website, states can allow organic foods such as eggs, cheese and milk that meet federal nutritional guidelines, be listed as WIC choices, but they don't have to -- it is up to each state to decide which brands and manufactures it wasn't to list.

[Anonymous]

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/benefitsandservices/foodpkgquestions.htm

Are organic foods WIC-eligible?

Some organic forms of WIC-eligible foods (e.g., milk, eggs, cheese) meet the nutritional requirements set forth in WIC regulations and are therefore authorized. However, WIC State agencies are responsible for determining the brands and types of foods to authorize on their State WIC food lists. Some State agencies may allow organic foods on their foods lists, but this will vary by State. The decision may be influenced by a number of factors such as cost, product distribution within a State, and WIC participant acceptance.

Organic fruits and vegetables purchased via the WIC cash-value voucher are authorized; there is not State discretion to disallow them. The cash-value voucher may be redeemed for any WIC-eligible fruit and vegetable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"They're complaining because they are not given the opportunity to make healthful choices for their family. "

If " the ability to make healthy choices" is defined by being able to buy certain brands of whole wheat bread and organic dairy/produce then perhaps we need to greatly expand the WIC program to include the tens of millions of middle and upper middle class Americans who would love to be able to shop this way for their children but can't afford to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have no problem with the OP being baffled or annoyed or questioning about the Lincoln Navigator. If someone needs WIC then they need to turn that monster in for a gas sipping sedan. She could get more in gas savings than she benefits from WIC.


It's really not that easy to turn in an expensive car, particularly now. I long to get rid of our 20 mpg Ford Taurus, but it's not worth enough to get another usuable car. Sure, over 3 years the gas savings would pay for a new (used) car. But one of the things about being poor is not having the cash on hand (or the credit on reasonable terms) to make long-term decisions like that.

Plus if the family has more than three kids in carseats, they need an SUV or a minivan.

I agree with PP on this. I volunteer at a food shelter and every month when we help carry bags of food out to people's cars, I find myself loading bags of free groceries into BMW SUVs, HUMVs, and Mercedes SUVs. It is a little strange - and most of these are newer models. Maybe they bought it and find themselves stuck with the payment now, maybe they just have different priorities, but it totally makes me wonder who really buys these cars, anyway. My husband and I make $250K and we drive a Corolla and a Sonata.

You may need a larger vehicle if you have more than 3 kids (and it IS possible to fit 3 carseats even in a Corolla), but you don't need a 2010 Mercedes SUV to transport your kids if you are on food stamps.

Where do you load the groceries for WIC? What areas of DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I earned it. I worked hard (two jobs) while in school and didn't have my first baby until 38, when I could afford it.

Unfortunately, in this economy many people equally confident have found themselves in dire straits. Truly. You really are out of touch if you feel that hard work and delayed childbearing are enough to inoculate you against job loss, health crisis, or other calamities that increasingly strike people just like you.

I'm not niave enough to think that something horrible couldn't happen to me - it could happen to anyone. However, I stated that I didn't go out and have a child with no money in the bank and no job. It's called planning.

I agree that people should be responsible and pick themselves up by the bootstrap, but sometimes carefully orchestrated plans go awry. You could have worked hard all your life and at age 38 learn that you had bad eggs so then you can't have kids. I think one can have outlines, ambitions of what one wants but things don't come out as you want and expect all the time.