Saw the Trump comment re: telework and dismissal, any words of sane advice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - have a few years and moved due to husbands job and my agency transitioned my role to remote because of my portfolio. I am far, far away and I truly miss DC but we cannot afford it and kids are in elementary school.

I find so much meaning in my work and I’d be willing to even go in satellite offices but I don’t know if that is enough. It just makes me sad that the address of my work will drive if I keep my job. I wonder if I’m being too positive and hopeful and should be jumping ship instead.

I get what you are saying and if you were truly remote before covid I would think you’d be fine. But keep in mind that there are no guarantees with any job, be it public or private. Lot’s of people in the private sector are sad when they get laid off too. It sucks. Hope you find a work around.

DP, but I’m tired of people making comparisons to what happens in the private sector. Feds accepted their jobs based on the protections and benefits of the public sector including giving up careers making more money. I’m 15 years in and teleworked for a decade prior to COVID. I chose this over making more money because I wanted work/life balance as a mom.

My DH is private sector so I’m aware of what can happen in the private sector. But he makes more money than me including employee stock and bonuses.

I and many Feds are having the rug pulled out from under us by a president who doesn’t give a crap about this country. He’s doing it to create a civil service full of loyalists and so he can destroy programs he doesn’t like without going through Congress. So no, this is a absolutely nothing like anything that has happened in the private sector.

This is what bugs me. So, what does your work/life balance mean for the taxpayers that fund your salary, excellent benefits and pension? There is also no guarantee you'd be making tons of money/get an excellent role in the private sector.

There are tremendous benefits in government jobs all of which are funded by taxpayers. Going to pick up Joey from school at 3PM and then signing on at 4:30PM to send one email and call it a day is not work/life balance. There are plenty of jobs that give flexibility if you need to leave occasionally, but it is when people use it frequently that it can be a problem.

Don't you think Elon Musk will have IT check to see when everyone has been working? People seem concerned about badge swipes. They can access information/usage from any equipment they own. My spouse was in a meeting (not gov) which showed all sorts of data about people not working/getting stuff done. He was concerned about a team member who said they were working and my spouse went on the system after it became a pattern and realized the person signed on and worked for maybe a couple hours and then used some kind of device (mouse mover or some such) to make it look like they were working. My spouse also realized pretty quickly this person was using AI to do work/emails. They would send an email here or there/hard to reach. When my spouse got this information, then IT was contacted and they got even more. Who knows maybe they even do these system checks, I don't know, but I would be more concerned about it happening in the coming months.

If you're worried and you are meant to be in the office and are close-by I would go in. And if you are remote then work your hours and make sure you're actually working in the system. Either way it will take time (I think) so just apply for roles you'd actually take and keep in touch with people in your network so that if you get laid off, you aren't just contacting people when you need something.

There have always been bad actors in public and private sector. I used to work with an attorney who would pretend to be in meetings and then nap in her office (she eventually was invited to leave the firm).

In the public sector I’ve worked with people who do things that are inappropriate as well, and I recently reported someone for their use of AI to perform work functions, which they were doing in the office BTW, not remote/telework.

Pre covid, I had flexibility to go to an appointment and make up the hours so I didn’t have to take sick leave. I don’t now have the flexibility to work 6 hours during the workday and log on later to work additional 2 hours on a regular basis, because right now much of my work is collaborative. But there have certainly been times and projects that I completed independently and it made zero difference to colleagues, supervisors, or taxpayers whether I did that at 3pm or 3am as long as it was done. I know not all jobs are like that, but it is foolish to require someone to sit at a desk in an office for 8 hours/day to keep the seat warm. Not to mention the cost to taxpayers to get the person to and from the office, and to pay for the seats, the lights, the AC. Heck, even the printer paper! That’s why the government was strongly encouraging telework policies pre-COVID - it is much less expensive for folks to work from home.

Im local remote now and yes, my family has really benefited from my not having a commute, but so has my employer (and by extension, the taxpayers). I’ve always known local remote was not going to last forever and Im disappointed, but not surprised we’ll be called back to the office. I hope we still get to TW once or twice a week, though I know that may be gone too. It’s going to impact quality of life for my whole family, which sucks.

But thinking that it will have a positive impact on my productivity is just ridiculous. I’m going to be more stressed and more rushed, and have fewer hours in the day to do all the things. I often work my 8 hours, spend time with my family, and then hop online later to do more work. I can guarantee you that after adding a 2 hour commute and missing that time with my kids, I won’t be putting in those extra hours at work.

Again, I knew this would happen someday and I get it. But it’s stupid and bad policy all around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming there is some period of time
Before these RTO orders actually go into effect, do you all plan to go in to the office before then? Knowing that politicals will view that more favorably? Or just wait until you’re actually required to be there every day?

Well I don’t have an office (even though I’m local to DC). I have a place where I can go to pick up a new badge or get my computer fixed. But I have to arrange for someone to let me in because I don’t have direct building access and then no one I work with would be there because they’re spread all over. So no I won’t be going into a place that doesn’t exist.

Right. Our building does not have enough space for everyone. Forget office space. There aren’t enough chairs or places to put desks, unless people work in conference rooms and not sure that will even be enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming there is some period of time
Before these RTO orders actually go into effect, do you all plan to go in to the office before then? Knowing that politicals will view that more favorably? Or just wait until you’re actually required to be there every day?

Well I don’t have an office (even though I’m local to DC). I have a place where I can go to pick up a new badge or get my computer fixed. But I have to arrange for someone to let me in because I don’t have direct building access and then no one I work with would be there because they’re spread all over. So no I won’t be going into a place that doesn’t exist.

Right. Our building does not have enough space for everyone. Forget office space. There aren’t enough chairs or places to put desks, unless people work in conference rooms and not sure that will even be enough.

There aren't enough ethernet ports and the wifi isn't able to handle everyone either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to see Trump wake up at 6;00, make himself breakfast and DRIVE HIMSELF to an office sixty minutes away, park his own car, make his own lunch, etc. You know that none of these guys could hack this themselves!!!

He is a legendary workaholic. At 78 he sleeps 4-5 hours a night. Back in his hey day in NYC in the 1970s and early 1980s he used to sleep 1-3 hours a night. He used to get at work at 7am and often with events and meetings get home at 3am and back at work at 7am.

He is in NY, NJ, Florida, UK, DC often within a few day period. I don't know how he does it. Then he does dinner and breakfast meeting. Musk is also like that. These guys will do 100 hour work weeks no problem. And do it for decades no problem.

He is also a legendary tail spinner, his heart would have given out by now if he was only sleeping 3 hrs, that is a scientific fact. These people love to create fairy tales about their personality and work habits. Also, these people are up at night and sleeping well into the day as they don't have a regular 9-5 schedule, ain't nobody working 100 hrs/week, please wake up and smell the coffee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saw this directly from Trump not doge https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-challenges-union-deal-remote-work-policies-federal-workers/#

I am not union so no lawsuits to drag out - just a remote employee with stellar performance. Besides looking for jobs in private sector what else can I do? Have been a remote employee since pre pandemic. You all have been sane in your commentary about doge but it seems that all hope is lost with it coming from Trump now. I really love my job and I’d move back if it wasn’t for my kids and schools.

Elon’s going to find out pretty quickly that sending people to Mars will be so much easier than sending them back to their desks.

Good, I do not want them back at their desks, I want their positions eliminated.

Oh PP, such a miserable life you live.I have a couple of relatives like this, their source of happiness is the misery they cause to others. I am serious, these people are so deeply unhappy in their own lives that only thing they want is to burn down the lives of others.

Seriously! You have to wonder what is deeply wrong with a person who would post something like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - have a few years and moved due to husbands job and my agency transitioned my role to remote because of my portfolio. I am far, far away and I truly miss DC but we cannot afford it and kids are in elementary school.

I find so much meaning in my work and I’d be willing to even go in satellite offices but I don’t know if that is enough. It just makes me sad that the address of my work will drive if I keep my job. I wonder if I’m being too positive and hopeful and should be jumping ship instead.

I get what you are saying and if you were truly remote before covid I would think you’d be fine. But keep in mind that there are no guarantees with any job, be it public or private. Lot’s of people in the private sector are sad when they get laid off too. It sucks. Hope you find a work around.

DP, but I’m tired of people making comparisons to what happens in the private sector. Feds accepted their jobs based on the protections and benefits of the public sector including giving up careers making more money. I’m 15 years in and teleworked for a decade prior to COVID. I chose this over making more money because I wanted work/life balance as a mom.

My DH is private sector so I’m aware of what can happen in the private sector. But he makes more money than me including employee stock and bonuses.

I and many Feds are having the rug pulled out from under us by a president who doesn’t give a crap about this country. He’s doing it to create a civil service full of loyalists and so he can destroy programs he doesn’t like without going through Congress. So no, this is a absolutely nothing like anything that has happened in the private sector.

This is what bugs me. So, what does your work/life balance mean for the taxpayers that fund your salary, excellent benefits and pension? There is also no guarantee you'd be making tons of money/get an excellent role in the private sector.

There are tremendous benefits in government jobs all of which are funded by taxpayers. Going to pick up Joey from school at 3PM and then signing on at 4:30PM to send one email and call it a day is not work/life balance. There are plenty of jobs that give flexibility if you need to leave occasionally, but it is when people use it frequently that it can be a problem.

Don't you think Elon Musk will have IT check to see when everyone has been working? People seem concerned about badge swipes. They can access information/usage from any equipment they own. My spouse was in a meeting (not gov) which showed all sorts of data about people not working/getting stuff done. He was concerned about a team member who said they were working and my spouse went on the system after it became a pattern and realized the person signed on and worked for maybe a couple hours and then used some kind of device (mouse mover or some such) to make it look like they were working. My spouse also realized pretty quickly this person was using AI to do work/emails. They would send an email here or there/hard to reach. When my spouse got this information, then IT was contacted and they got even more. Who knows maybe they even do these system checks, I don't know, but I would be more concerned about it happening in the coming months.

If you're worried and you are meant to be in the office and are close-by I would go in. And if you are remote then work your hours and make sure you're actually working in the system. Either way it will take time (I think) so just apply for roles you'd actually take and keep in touch with people in your network so that if you get laid off, you aren't just contacting people when you need something.

There have always been bad actors in public and private sector. I used to work with an attorney who would pretend to be in meetings and then nap in her office (she eventually was invited to leave the firm).

In the public sector I’ve worked with people who do things that are inappropriate as well, and I recently reported someone for their use of AI to perform work functions, which they were doing in the office BTW, not remote/telework.

Pre covid, I had flexibility to go to an appointment and make up the hours so I didn’t have to take sick leave. I don’t now have the flexibility to work 6 hours during the workday and log on later to work additional 2 hours on a regular basis, because right now much of my work is collaborative. But there have certainly been times and projects that I completed independently and it made zero difference to colleagues, supervisors, or taxpayers whether I did that at 3pm or 3am as long as it was done. I know not all jobs are like that, but it is foolish to require someone to sit at a desk in an office for 8 hours/day to keep the seat warm. Not to mention the cost to taxpayers to get the person to and from the office, and to pay for the seats, the lights, the AC. Heck, even the printer paper! That’s why the government was strongly encouraging telework policies pre-COVID - it is much less expensive for folks to work from home.

Im local remote now and yes, my family has really benefited from my not having a commute, but so has my employer (and by extension, the taxpayers). I’ve always known local remote was not going to last forever and Im disappointed, but not surprised we’ll be called back to the office. I hope we still get to TW once or twice a week, though I know that may be gone too. It’s going to impact quality of life for my whole family, which sucks.

But thinking that it will have a positive impact on my productivity is just ridiculous. I’m going to be more stressed and more rushed, and have fewer hours in the day to do all the things. I often work my 8 hours, spend time with my family, and then hop online later to do more work. I can guarantee you that after adding a 2 hour commute and missing that time with my kids, I won’t be putting in those extra hours at work.

Again, I knew this would happen someday and I get it. But it’s stupid and bad policy all around.

This is the best argument right here. When my kid is sick, I'm still working because I'm at home anyway. If I have to take leave to be at home with him, I'm not working. But honestly, this whole thing isn't about productivity. It's about passive workforce reduction. Force five days and many will quit. Amazon is doing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Working at Chase for low pay 60hr/week should not be the life goal of people in jobs, why are you all citing that as an example that should be emulated? Republicans especially are the “family values” party, so please support families by proving work/life balance and better working conditions. I am counting on you, Republicans.

I think it's apples to oranges. 60k at Chase is not 60k as a fed. Don't the Chase people get 5 figure bonuses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to see Trump wake up at 6;00, make himself breakfast and DRIVE HIMSELF to an office sixty minutes away, park his own car, make his own lunch, etc. You know that none of these guys could hack this themselves!!!

He is a legendary workaholic. At 78 he sleeps 4-5 hours a night. Back in his hey day in NYC in the 1970s and early 1980s he used to sleep 1-3 hours a night. He used to get at work at 7am and often with events and meetings get home at 3am and back at work at 7am.

He is in NY, NJ, Florida, UK, DC often within a few day period. I dont know how he does it. Then he does dinner and breakfast meeting. Musk is also like that. These guys will do 100 hour work weeks no problem. And do it for decades no problem.

When most of your life consists of playing golf and watching TV even when you are POTUS it’s easy to do all these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to see Trump wake up at 6;00, make himself breakfast and DRIVE HIMSELF to an office sixty minutes away, park his own car, make his own lunch, etc. You know that none of these guys could hack this themselves!!!

He is a legendary workaholic. At 78 he sleeps 4-5 hours a night. Back in his hey day in NYC in the 1970s and early 1980s he used to sleep 1-3 hours a night. He used to get at work at 7am and often with events and meetings get home at 3am and back at work at 7am.

He is in NY, NJ, Florida, UK, DC often within a few day period. I dont know how he does it. Then he does dinner and breakfast meeting. Musk is also like that. These guys will do 100 hour work weeks no problem. And do it for decades no problem.

When most of your life consists of playing golf and watching TV even when you are POTUS it’s easy to do all these things.

+1 PP is nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to see Trump wake up at 6;00, make himself breakfast and DRIVE HIMSELF to an office sixty minutes away, park his own car, make his own lunch, etc. You know that none of these guys could hack this themselves!!!

He is a legendary workaholic. At 78 he sleeps 4-5 hours a night. Back in his hey day in NYC in the 1970s and early 1980s he used to sleep 1-3 hours a night. He used to get at work at 7am and often with events and meetings get home at 3am and back at work at 7am.

He is in NY, NJ, Florida, UK, DC often within a few day period. I dont know how he does it. Then he does dinner and breakfast meeting. Musk is also like that. These guys will do 100 hour work weeks no problem. And do it for decades no problem.

But they aren't sitting at desks in an office all that time. Sometimes they are.....at home. I could theoretically work 100 hours a week is some of it was at home. Can't do that in the office.

They also have other people to take care of literally every task in their lives. Cooking, cleaning, clothes shopping, driving, organizing, scheduling, paying bills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saw this directly from Trump not doge https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-challenges-union-deal-remote-work-policies-federal-workers/#

I am not union so no lawsuits to drag out - just a remote employee with stellar performance. Besides looking for jobs in private sector what else can I do? Have been a remote employee since pre pandemic. You all have been sane in your commentary about doge but it seems that all hope is lost with it coming from Trump now. I really love my job and I’d move back if it wasn’t for my kids and schools.

Elon’s going to find out pretty quickly that sending people to Mars will be so much easier than sending them back to their desks.

Sending people to Mars is going to be quite the challenge when all the retirement-eligible people at NASA quit if they have to go in 5 days per week.

They’ll retire and take their knowledge, skills and experience to SpaceX and watch their money go further in Texas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming there is some period of time
Before these RTO orders actually go into effect, do you all plan to go in to the office before then? Knowing that politicals will view that more favorably? Or just wait until you’re actually required to be there every day?

Well I don’t have an office (even though I’m local to DC). I have a place where I can go to pick up a new badge or get my computer fixed. But I have to arrange for someone to let me in because I don’t have direct building access and then no one I work with would be there because they’re spread all over. So no I won’t be going into a place that doesn’t exist.

Right. Our building does not have enough space for everyone. Forget office space. There aren’t enough chairs or places to put desks, unless people work in conference rooms and not sure that will even be enough.

If everyone returns 5 days a week at my agency, we will be sitting on the floor in the halls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saw this directly from Trump not doge https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-challenges-union-deal-remote-work-policies-federal-workers/#

I am not union so no lawsuits to drag out - just a remote employee with stellar performance. Besides looking for jobs in private sector what else can I do? Have been a remote employee since pre pandemic. You all have been sane in your commentary about doge but it seems that all hope is lost with it coming from Trump now. I really love my job and I’d move back if it wasn’t for my kids and schools.

Elon’s going to find out pretty quickly that sending people to Mars will be so much easier than sending them back to their desks.

Sending people to Mars is going to be quite the challenge when all the retirement-eligible people at NASA quit if they have to go in 5 days per week.

They’ll retire and take their knowledge, skills and experience to SpaceX and watch their money go further in Texas.

No, because spaceX is notorious for churning and burning through young engineers, expecting 60-70 work weeks. I'm not sure why that's a good thing.

[Anonymous]

I agree with him and I am a Bernie Bro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - have a few years and moved due to husbands job and my agency transitioned my role to remote because of my portfolio. I am far, far away and I truly miss DC but we cannot afford it and kids are in elementary school.

I find so much meaning in my work and I’d be willing to even go in satellite offices but I don’t know if that is enough. It just makes me sad that the address of my work will drive if I keep my job. I wonder if I’m being too positive and hopeful and should be jumping ship instead.

I get what you are saying and if you were truly remote before covid I would think you’d be fine. But keep in mind that there are no guarantees with any job, be it public or private. Lot’s of people in the private sector are sad when they get laid off too. It sucks. Hope you find a work around.

DP, but I’m tired of people making comparisons to what happens in the private sector. Feds accepted their jobs based on the protections and benefits of the public sector including giving up careers making more money. I’m 15 years in and teleworked for a decade prior to COVID. I chose this over making more money because I wanted work/life balance as a mom.

My DH is private sector so I’m aware of what can happen in the private sector. But he makes more money than me including employee stock and bonuses.

I and many Feds are having the rug pulled out from under us by a president who doesn’t give a crap about this country. He’s doing it to create a civil service full of loyalists and so he can destroy programs he doesn’t like without going through Congress. So no, this is a absolutely nothing like anything that has happened in the private sector.

This is what bugs me. So, what does your work/life balance mean for the taxpayers that fund your salary, excellent benefits and pension? There is also no guarantee you'd be making tons of money/get an excellent role in the private sector.

There are tremendous benefits in government jobs all of which are funded by taxpayers. Going to pick up Joey from school at 3PM and then signing on at 4:30PM to send one email and call it a day is not work/life balance. There are plenty of jobs that give flexibility if you need to leave occasionally, but it is when people use it frequently that it can be a problem.

Don't you think Elon Musk will have IT check to see when everyone has been working? People seem concerned about badge swipes. They can access information/usage from any equipment they own. My spouse was in a meeting (not gov) which showed all sorts of data about people not working/getting stuff done. He was concerned about a team member who said they were working and my spouse went on the system after it became a pattern and realized the person signed on and worked for maybe a couple hours and then used some kind of device (mouse mover or some such) to make it look like they were working. My spouse also realized pretty quickly this person was using AI to do work/emails. They would send an email here or there/hard to reach. When my spouse got this information, then IT was contacted and they got even more. Who knows maybe they even do these system checks, I don't know, but I would be more concerned about it happening in the coming months.

If you're worried and you are meant to be in the office and are close-by I would go in. And if you are remote then work your hours and make sure you're actually working in the system. Either way it will take time (I think) so just apply for roles you'd actually take and keep in touch with people in your network so that if you get laid off, you aren't just contacting people when you need something.

There have always been bad actors in public and private sector. I used to work with an attorney who would pretend to be in meetings and then nap in her office (she eventually was invited to leave the firm).

In the public sector I’ve worked with people who do things that are inappropriate as well, and I recently reported someone for their use of AI to perform work functions, which they were doing in the office BTW, not remote/telework.

Pre covid, I had flexibility to go to an appointment and make up the hours so I didn’t have to take sick leave. I don’t now have the flexibility to work 6 hours during the workday and log on later to work additional 2 hours on a regular basis, because right now much of my work is collaborative. But there have certainly been times and projects that I completed independently and it made zero difference to colleagues, supervisors, or taxpayers whether I did that at 3pm or 3am as long as it was done. I know not all jobs are like that, but it is foolish to require someone to sit at a desk in an office for 8 hours/day to keep the seat warm. Not to mention the cost to taxpayers to get the person to and from the office, and to pay for the seats, the lights, the AC. Heck, even the printer paper! That’s why the government was strongly encouraging telework policies pre-COVID - it is much less expensive for folks to work from home.

Im local remote now and yes, my family has really benefited from my not having a commute, but so has my employer (and by extension, the taxpayers). I’ve always known local remote was not going to last forever and Im disappointed, but not surprised we’ll be called back to the office. I hope we still get to TW once or twice a week, though I know that may be gone too. It’s going to impact quality of life for my whole family, which sucks.

But thinking that it will have a positive impact on my productivity is just ridiculous. I’m going to be more stressed and more rushed, and have fewer hours in the day to do all the things. I often work my 8 hours, spend time with my family, and then hop online later to do more work. I can guarantee you that after adding a 2 hour commute and missing that time with my kids, I won’t be putting in those extra hours at work.

Again, I knew this would happen someday and I get it. But it’s stupid and bad policy all around.

This is the best argument right here. When my kid is sick, I'm still working because I'm at home anyway. If I have to take leave to be at home with him, I'm not working. But honestly, this whole thing isn't about productivity. It's about passive workforce reduction. Force five days and many will quit. Amazon is doing this.

My brother works for Amazon...and there seems to be much manager discretion included in the RTO rule. He said now he literally just works from home whenever he wants to. He does not need to ask/inform anyone. In January he will notify his manager first. Amazon employees also do not have any sort of hourly requirement. They might work a 12 hour day or a 4 hour day. Very very flexible. So different then my fed office.