How do you think race actually impacts admissions now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

…compared to black physicists which was what was the main discussion at the time. I find it difficult to take people seriously who don’t even read the context of what they’re responding to but are eager to call black people idiote

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

I wonder how you Think your framing helps exactly. Do you think more black people will want a PhD in Astro (incredibly useless btw) if we wave a stick at them telling them they’re ass at math and cognitively behind Asian students? Like what’s your end goal other than bigotry

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Holy moly, less than half a day and 11 pages.

Reads through

Oh, it’s just racism. Great.

Do you look at everything this simplistically?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holy moly, less than half a day and 11 pages.

Reads through

Oh, it’s just racism. Great.

Do you look at everything this simplistically?

It’s a pretty racist thread, beginning with some racist lab ta and ending with people just calling black people stupid. It’s hard to spin this as a productive conversation exactly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

…compared to black physicists which was what was the main discussion at the time. I find it difficult to take people seriously who don’t even read the context of what they’re responding to but are eager to call black people idiote

Black students earn 3 percent of all physics degrees. Not sure 4 percent is WAY more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

…compared to black physicists which was what was the main discussion at the time. I find it difficult to take people seriously who don’t even read the context of what they’re responding to but are eager to call black people idiote

Black students earn 3 percent of all physics degrees. Not sure 4 percent is WAY more.

Omg another dense racist. There are many more black mathematicians than black physicists, not just undergrad degree percentages lord. There’s literally only 20 or so black female physics phd recipients- it’s not that hard to have a higher amount of black mathematicians, which there are

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

I wonder how you Think your framing helps exactly. Do you think more black people will want a PhD in Astro (incredibly useless btw) if we wave a stick at them telling them they’re ass at math and cognitively behind Asian students? Like what’s your end goal other than bigotry

Not all blacks are ass at math. They earn 3 percent of all physics bachelors and 4 percent of all math bachelors!!! That's a lot of people!!!! But I think it helps to have an accurate assessment of where we are if we want to get where we want to go (equity).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is at a top lac, rising sophomore. People are already calling the ‘28 class the “white class,” because of how non-diverse the rising class is based off their class instagram and admitted student visits. Students do feel betrayed, because diversity is a massive student body interest and why people come to the school in the first place

Is it the white class or the Asian class? The "accepted student" Instagrams for every top school we've looked at seem OVERWHELMINGLY Asian and South Asian.
It's turning off my kid--not because he has ANYTHING against Asians but because he comes from a diverse high school and really wants diversity in college.

DP, but it would turn me off to but for different reasons. Not trying to offend Asian Americans, but in college, they were the coldest students, the most competitive and most lacking in collaboration if you weren’t Asian, and Asian men were the first I’d have to speak out against in lab classes for taking equipment out of women’s hands or disrespecting other students in lab, because they were women or students of color. I’m sure they’re the best students on paper, but they were a constant red flag in my science department for being massive douches to everyone else’s

Curious why you seem to think this is a completely acceptable generalization to make about an entire group of people when they are Asian kids. Like—what makes you comfortable being so racist?
Would you be this casual about sharing this same “observation” about black guys based on the behavior of a few black people you happened to encounter in college?

Pretty sure I wouldn't call them monkeys no matter what I observed

Is it unreasonable if the darker students are acting like monkeys in their Gaza protests

Is it just me or are most of the advertisements being served up in this forum for "trauma therapy?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

I wonder how you Think your framing helps exactly. Do you think more black people will want a PhD in Astro (incredibly useless btw) if we wave a stick at them telling them they’re ass at math and cognitively behind Asian students? Like what’s your end goal other than bigotry

Not all blacks are ass at math. They earn 3 percent of all physics bachelors and 4 percent of all math bachelors!!! That's a lot of people!!!! But I think it helps to have an accurate assessment of where we are if we want to get where we want to go (equity).

Oh that’ll be fun to tell the few black students at Sidwell. Come kids! Go to a top school and go into academia for an underpaid position in astrophysics so you can be a part of the 3%! Doesn’t that sound so exciting?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had an AA senior last year, and one who graduated 3 years ago. They had roughly the same stats (1550 SAT, lots of APs, close to 4.0 UW; extracurriculars were similar, essays seemed similar to my untrained eye). Last year's senior was clearly identifiable as AA (through some AA-related awards.) The two kids' admissions experiences were very, very different. You never, know-- it could just be random/luck of the draw. But from my perspective, there wasn't a good explanation for the difference.

Also, our HS had many more Asian Ivy admits than previous years, and the AA students didn't fare nearly as well as prior years.

Opposite at dc’s school. Black students did the same as usual. Asian Ivy acceptance fell disastrously.

Which ivies though.

Some care about URM/race more than others - esp coming from east coast privates - bc they need that diversity while others have different pockets/ability to access diverse local pools.

The biggest drop was from Princeton and Harvard. Columbia had a slight gain in black students, while other ivies had the same black acceptances. Asian students climbed a little at Brown, but every other college accepted fewer than the past 5 years

how in the world do you know this? It's not been published anywhere that I can find.

Comparing naviances and past graduation pages to current graduation college page (fully complete). Historically this was the schools worst year for Asian students, but best year for everyone else.

This is true for our private. But
biracial half Asian students did much better than full Asian students with better stats.

Though I think there is some correlation between majors. Asians, who are traditional, stem applicants tend to do the worst.

And white students did the very best.

it definately is more about major. If applying to a school with 10% acceptance rate, it's challenging for everyone. But if applying to CS or Engineering (with a 3-4% acceptance rate), its obviously much more challenging. 97% are gonna get rejected. It has nothing to do with your race and more to do with schools view 1520 the same as 1580---there isn't a difference. Once you cross the 1520 bar, they don't care and move on to the rest of the application. And it cancome down to your essays or a teacher recommendation that puts you over the top. And yes, they might think a kid with a 1470 from innercity/poor neighborhood who is a leader and has taken all the APs their school offers (which is 4) has something to offer the university and it might be more than your snowflake with a 3.99/1550/paid for ECs by someone who has had all privileges in life.

The private school kid whose legacy Daddy donates megabucks trumps them all, though. The whole "diversity benefits society" thing is BS. Universities want diversity because it plays well with the liberal narrative. At the end of the day it's about the bottom line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

I wonder how you Think your framing helps exactly. Do you think more black people will want a PhD in Astro (incredibly useless btw) if we wave a stick at them telling them they’re ass at math and cognitively behind Asian students? Like what’s your end goal other than bigotry

Not all blacks are ass at math. They earn 3 percent of all physics bachelors and 4 percent of all math bachelors!!! That's a lot of people!!!! But I think it helps to have an accurate assessment of where we are if we want to get where we want to go (equity).

Oh that’ll be fun to tell the few black students at Sidwell. Come kids! Go to a top school and go into academia for an underpaid position in astrophysics so you can be a part of the 3%! Doesn’t that sound so exciting?!

I think the few black students at Sidwell will do fine. But if they (or a student at Mount Vernon or Justice) are concerned about earnings they can always go into engineering - a field where black students earn 8.5 percent of bachelor's degrees, so still underrepresented, but less so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

I wonder how you Think your framing helps exactly. Do you think more black people will want a PhD in Astro (incredibly useless btw) if we wave a stick at them telling them they’re ass at math and cognitively behind Asian students? Like what’s your end goal other than bigotry

Not all blacks are ass at math. They earn 3 percent of all physics bachelors and 4 percent of all math bachelors!!! That's a lot of people!!!! But I think it helps to have an accurate assessment of where we are if we want to get where we want to go (equity).

Oh that’ll be fun to tell the few black students at Sidwell. Come kids! Go to a top school and go into academia for an underpaid position in astrophysics so you can be a part of the 3%! Doesn’t that sound so exciting?!

More than a few astrophysics grads end up at investment banks, etc. They get recruited simply because they have proven they can understand complicated things. So, sure, go ahead and tell the kids at Sidwell to study astrophysics. They might grow up to be happy and/or successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

I wonder how you Think your framing helps exactly. Do you think more black people will want a PhD in Astro (incredibly useless btw) if we wave a stick at them telling them they’re ass at math and cognitively behind Asian students? Like what’s your end goal other than bigotry

Not all blacks are ass at math. They earn 3 percent of all physics bachelors and 4 percent of all math bachelors!!! That's a lot of people!!!! But I think it helps to have an accurate assessment of where we are if we want to get where we want to go (equity).

Oh that’ll be fun to tell the few black students at Sidwell. Come kids! Go to a top school and go into academia for an underpaid position in astrophysics so you can be a part of the 3%! Doesn’t that sound so exciting?!

I think the few black students at Sidwell will do fine. But if they (or a student at Mount Vernon or Justice) are concerned about earnings they can always go into engineering - a field where black students earn 8.5 percent of bachelor's degrees, so still underrepresented, but less so.

They’re realistically the ones who’d be doing Astro phds, so everyone of them not going into physics is a loss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are WAY more black mathematicians around. Physics has a real diversity issue beyond “ability”-whatever quantifiable metric you believe that to be. Women sit at just 20% of all degree levels for the field, and it continues to struggle to make any of the advances other sciences and mathematics has made over time. What I really dislike about this framing is it makes it sound like we should assume unintelligence of groups by their physics PhD output when academia has so many other factors beyond raw intelligence that gets you over the finish line of a PhD.

Way more black mathematicians around compared to what? Blacks earn 4 percent of all undergraduate degrees in mathematics every year. That's undergrad. I don't need to tell you that's lower than their percentage of population or even bachelor's degree holders.

I agree that it's probably not fair to assess the innate cognitive ability if a group based on such criteria, but it's probably a good measure of the current academic ability as it now stands - the pipeline if you will for potential future expansion in those fields. Right now, the black community has a problem with math. Sorry.

I wonder how you Think your framing helps exactly. Do you think more black people will want a PhD in Astro (incredibly useless btw) if we wave a stick at them telling them they’re ass at math and cognitively behind Asian students? Like what’s your end goal other than bigotry

Not all blacks are ass at math. They earn 3 percent of all physics bachelors and 4 percent of all math bachelors!!! That's a lot of people!!!! But I think it helps to have an accurate assessment of where we are if we want to get where we want to go (equity).

Oh that’ll be fun to tell the few black students at Sidwell. Come kids! Go to a top school and go into academia for an underpaid position in astrophysics so you can be a part of the 3%! Doesn’t that sound so exciting?!

More than a few astrophysics grads end up at investment banks, etc. They get recruited simply because they have proven they can understand complicated things. So, sure, go ahead and tell the kids at Sidwell to study astrophysics. They might grow up to be happy and/or successful.

What a winding route for an unrelated job. Seems like those astrophysics students just aren’t smart enough to get a real job in physics so they have to compensate. They would’ve made so much more getting an undergrad in economics and math