The Dad Privilege Checklist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before I logged on to DcUM, I just got off the phone with the ped’s office trying to get an earlier appointment for an anxiety med, after meeting with the therapist earlier this week, during an appointment that I made, based on emails that I exchanged with her (largely screenshots of text exchanges I had with my kid about her anxiety surrounding some exams….).

I told DW the where and when of the appointment.

Some of you are just blind to the fact that many dads are not as checked out as yours husbands are.

“ What I do hear constantly is women who are judged as being bad moms for working AND other moms who are judged for being lazy because the SAH.”

If you’re still butthurt about mommy war BS, you need to grow up. And newsflash, all that judgment comes exclusively from other women. When are you ever going to learn to ignore it?

+1. To the women of DCUM: on the eternal and nasty SAHM v. WOHM cage match, the call is coming from inside the house. That is all woman-on-woman mean girl BS. Stop blaming men for that.

Sorry about your reading comprehension skills. The PP was actually specifically arguing AGAINST the WOHM v. SAHM debate. That was the whole point of her comment -- "women who are judged as bad moms for working AND other moms who are judge for being lazy because they SAHM." Her point is that neither judgment is fair and yet they get thrown at women all the time because no woman is ever judged to be doing enough. It's an anti-mommy wars stance, arguing in favor of cutting women some freaking slack (the way we cut men slack all the time).

Judgment thrown by whom? It’s not the MEN who aren’t willing to cut women “some freaking slack.”

+1 amen. I’m so sick of women complaining about men because they feel judged by other women. You do t have to care what other people think!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree a lot of this list is super condescending but there’s some real truth to it. In my marriage, and the marriage of most of my friends the saying “he does his best and I do the rest” is 100 percent the case. It’s not that the dads don’t do anything, it’s that they view virtually everything as optional or extra credit. If my husband gets busy at work or wants to travel, he does that. If one of our kids has extra needs, that’s a problem mom will solve regardless of whether she also works or what else she has going on. My husband is not a bad guy and will laugh about both our moms raving how wonderful he is for taking a child to a physical (scheduled by mom, Who is at work and needs to be there because she handled the sick days last week because dad “can’t” reschedule any meetings) but he is still totally guilty of kicking anything hard or inconvenient to me. He knows that I will always always always find a way to do the things I think are important for the kids so he can just say “I can’t” guilt free.

Also this one reminded me of DCUM:
If I do a task incorrectly, people will tell my partner to praise me for trying.

Totally agree. "He does his best and I do the rest" is absolutely how my marriage and those of pretty much all my friends work. "His best" can vary a bit, but I only know one marriage where I genuinely think the dad is the primary parent and is doing "the rest" and he's a SAHD and his wife is an executive and they have one kid.

I think this is the dirty secret of most dual income couples. It looks pretty equal from the outside -- both partners work, they say the right things, dad is visibly doing stuff like taking kids to activities, cooking, seems engaged. But if you open things up and really look at what is happening, dad is taking kids to activities that mom (who also works) researched, arranged, and provided dad with the schedule for. Dad is cooking but so is mom, and mom is also thinking a week ahead to when her MIL is in town and suggesting they make and freeze an extra casserole so they have a quick dinner for the night she arrives. Mom doesn't always seem engaged, because she's exhausted and has a laundry list of things in her head to keep track of (including laundry).

But the veneer of "things are pretty equal!" is there because it's easier on everyone's ego and it keeps the ship afloat. You could nag and nitpick dad to death but he's never, ever going to do as much as mom. Ever. If you don't want to ruin your marriage and get a divorce, which most of us don't, you just accept the inequity and move on. But it's unequal. Very, very unequal.

“I’m oppressed because DH doesn’t think a week ahead to freeze a casserole for MIL” isn’t quite the own you think it is. That is you concerned about appearances and looking on top of things lest MIL judge you.

Such a great example. Yet what happens when MIL arrives at dinner time on a Tuesday? Has “DH” come home early from work to tidy the house, make up the guest bed, then figured out a nice dinner that allows MIL to feel welcomed while DIL isn’t overly stressed? Lololol. I think we ALL know the answer to that one. Here’s how it really goes:

(Saturday) DW, my mom wants to come stay for a few nights on Tuesday. Is that ok?

DW: of course! your mom is always welcome.

DW: OK, Tuesday I have that presentation at 2 so I won’t have any time to get the house ready on Monday. I think I can get home Tuesday around 5 - that gives me an hour or so to tidy up and put clean sheets on the guest bed. But that doesn’t leave time to make dinner. I think I could put a lasagna together today so I can pop it in the oven Tuesday. Do you think you can do pickup and dropoff on Tuesday so I can make that work?

DH: Why do you have to do any of that? Mom just wants to see the kids, she doesn’t care.

DW: Well the guest bed sheets haven’t been changed since your brother stayed here, the house will be messy, and we do need to eat dinner. I’d like to have something a bit nicer than frozen meatballs for your mom.

DH: Why do you make up all this stuff? None of that needs to be done.

Exactly. This stuff is only considered nitpicky make-work by men who just assume everything will work itself out because, in his experience, everything [through the invisible efforts of all the women around him making adjustments, plans, concessions, etc.] does.

"OMG why do you make everything so hard?!!" Her mistake was discussing out loud the stuff that men are used to women doing silently and without complaint. Oops.

[Anonymous]

My wife and I thought it would be interesting to go through this list together.

52/103 - Neither of us have the privilege
20/103 - We both have the privilege
16/103 - Only she has the privilege
15/103 - Only I have the privilege

Seems well-balanced. So... what do we win?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree a lot of this list is super condescending but there’s some real truth to it. In my marriage, and the marriage of most of my friends the saying “he does his best and I do the rest” is 100 percent the case. It’s not that the dads don’t do anything, it’s that they view virtually everything as optional or extra credit. If my husband gets busy at work or wants to travel, he does that. If one of our kids has extra needs, that’s a problem mom will solve regardless of whether she also works or what else she has going on. My husband is not a bad guy and will laugh about both our moms raving how wonderful he is for taking a child to a physical (scheduled by mom, Who is at work and needs to be there because she handled the sick days last week because dad “can’t” reschedule any meetings) but he is still totally guilty of kicking anything hard or inconvenient to me. He knows that I will always always always find a way to do the things I think are important for the kids so he can just say “I can’t” guilt free.

Also this one reminded me of DCUM:
If I do a task incorrectly, people will tell my partner to praise me for trying.

Totally agree. "He does his best and I do the rest" is absolutely how my marriage and those of pretty much all my friends work. "His best" can vary a bit, but I only know one marriage where I genuinely think the dad is the primary parent and is doing "the rest" and he's a SAHD and his wife is an executive and they have one kid.

I think this is the dirty secret of most dual income couples. It looks pretty equal from the outside -- both partners work, they say the right things, dad is visibly doing stuff like taking kids to activities, cooking, seems engaged. But if you open things up and really look at what is happening, dad is taking kids to activities that mom (who also works) researched, arranged, and provided dad with the schedule for. Dad is cooking but so is mom, and mom is also thinking a week ahead to when her MIL is in town and suggesting they make and freeze an extra casserole so they have a quick dinner for the night she arrives. Mom doesn't always seem engaged, because she's exhausted and has a laundry list of things in her head to keep track of (including laundry).

But the veneer of "things are pretty equal!" is there because it's easier on everyone's ego and it keeps the ship afloat. You could nag and nitpick dad to death but he's never, ever going to do as much as mom. Ever. If you don't want to ruin your marriage and get a divorce, which most of us don't, you just accept the inequity and move on. But it's unequal. Very, very unequal.

“I’m oppressed because DH doesn’t think a week ahead to freeze a casserole for MIL” isn’t quite the own you think it is. That is you concerned about appearances and looking on top of things lest MIL judge you.

Such a great example. Yet what happens when MIL arrives at dinner time on a Tuesday? Has “DH” come home early from work to tidy the house, make up the guest bed, then figured out a nice dinner that allows MIL to feel welcomed while DIL isn’t overly stressed? Lololol. I think we ALL know the answer to that one. Here’s how it really goes:

(Saturday) DW, my mom wants to come stay for a few nights on Tuesday. Is that ok?

DW: of course! your mom is always welcome.

DW: OK, Tuesday I have that presentation at 2 so I won’t have any time to get the house ready on Monday. I think I can get home Tuesday around 5 - that gives me an hour or so to tidy up and put clean sheets on the guest bed. But that doesn’t leave time to make dinner. I think I could put a lasagna together today so I can pop it in the oven Tuesday. Do you think you can do pickup and dropoff on Tuesday so I can make that work?

DH: Why do you have to do any of that? Mom just wants to see the kids, she doesn’t care.

DW: Well the guest bed sheets haven’t been changed since your brother stayed here, the house will be messy, and we do need to eat dinner. I’d like to have something a bit nicer than frozen meatballs for your mom.

DH: Why do you make up all this stuff? None of that needs to be done.

So what? He says something ridiculous. That’s not “male privilege,” that’s just stupidity, Conversation continues:

DW: “ha! I’m definitely not making up basic rules of sanitation. Can you do pick up kids or not, because we will have to reschedule with your mom if you can’t”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife and I thought it would be interesting to go through this list together.

52/103 - Neither of us have the privilege
20/103 - We both have the privilege
16/103 - Only she has the privilege
15/103 - Only I have the privilege

Seems well-balanced. So... what do we win?

Nothing, you're fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree a lot of this list is super condescending but there’s some real truth to it. In my marriage, and the marriage of most of my friends the saying “he does his best and I do the rest” is 100 percent the case. It’s not that the dads don’t do anything, it’s that they view virtually everything as optional or extra credit. If my husband gets busy at work or wants to travel, he does that. If one of our kids has extra needs, that’s a problem mom will solve regardless of whether she also works or what else she has going on. My husband is not a bad guy and will laugh about both our moms raving how wonderful he is for taking a child to a physical (scheduled by mom, Who is at work and needs to be there because she handled the sick days last week because dad “can’t” reschedule any meetings) but he is still totally guilty of kicking anything hard or inconvenient to me. He knows that I will always always always find a way to do the things I think are important for the kids so he can just say “I can’t” guilt free.

Also this one reminded me of DCUM:
If I do a task incorrectly, people will tell my partner to praise me for trying.

Totally agree. "He does his best and I do the rest" is absolutely how my marriage and those of pretty much all my friends work. "His best" can vary a bit, but I only know one marriage where I genuinely think the dad is the primary parent and is doing "the rest" and he's a SAHD and his wife is an executive and they have one kid.

I think this is the dirty secret of most dual income couples. It looks pretty equal from the outside -- both partners work, they say the right things, dad is visibly doing stuff like taking kids to activities, cooking, seems engaged. But if you open things up and really look at what is happening, dad is taking kids to activities that mom (who also works) researched, arranged, and provided dad with the schedule for. Dad is cooking but so is mom, and mom is also thinking a week ahead to when her MIL is in town and suggesting they make and freeze an extra casserole so they have a quick dinner for the night she arrives. Mom doesn't always seem engaged, because she's exhausted and has a laundry list of things in her head to keep track of (including laundry).

But the veneer of "things are pretty equal!" is there because it's easier on everyone's ego and it keeps the ship afloat. You could nag and nitpick dad to death but he's never, ever going to do as much as mom. Ever. If you don't want to ruin your marriage and get a divorce, which most of us don't, you just accept the inequity and move on. But it's unequal. Very, very unequal.

“I’m oppressed because DH doesn’t think a week ahead to freeze a casserole for MIL” isn’t quite the own you think it is. That is you concerned about appearances and looking on top of things lest MIL judge you.

Such a great example. Yet what happens when MIL arrives at dinner time on a Tuesday? Has “DH” come home early from work to tidy the house, make up the guest bed, then figured out a nice dinner that allows MIL to feel welcomed while DIL isn’t overly stressed? Lololol. I think we ALL know the answer to that one. Here’s how it really goes:

(Saturday) DW, my mom wants to come stay for a few nights on Tuesday. Is that ok?

DW: of course! your mom is always welcome.

DW: OK, Tuesday I have that presentation at 2 so I won’t have any time to get the house ready on Monday. I think I can get home Tuesday around 5 - that gives me an hour or so to tidy up and put clean sheets on the guest bed. But that doesn’t leave time to make dinner. I think I could put a lasagna together today so I can pop it in the oven Tuesday. Do you think you can do pickup and dropoff on Tuesday so I can make that work?

DH: Why do you have to do any of that? Mom just wants to see the kids, she doesn’t care.

DW: Well the guest bed sheets haven’t been changed since your brother stayed here, the house will be messy, and we do need to eat dinner. I’d like to have something a bit nicer than frozen meatballs for your mom.

DH: Why do you make up all this stuff? None of that needs to be done.

So what? He says something ridiculous. That’s not “male privilege,” that’s just stupidity, Conversation continues:

DW: “ha! I’m definitely not making up basic rules of sanitation. Can you do pick up kids or not, because we will have to reschedule with your mom if you can’t”

It is male privilege that you think it's normal and fine for a husband to make basic household planning hard, for his OWN mother to visit, because he's "stupid."

Male privilege = men getting to be stupid all the time and expecting women to patiently explain stuff to them.

[Anonymous]

DH thankfully is truly an equal partner. He schedules and takes DS to appts. Sometimes he's the contact person for activities. He helps cook and get the house ready when both our families visit. He actually probably cooks for guests more than I do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree a lot of this list is super condescending but there’s some real truth to it. In my marriage, and the marriage of most of my friends the saying “he does his best and I do the rest” is 100 percent the case. It’s not that the dads don’t do anything, it’s that they view virtually everything as optional or extra credit. If my husband gets busy at work or wants to travel, he does that. If one of our kids has extra needs, that’s a problem mom will solve regardless of whether she also works or what else she has going on. My husband is not a bad guy and will laugh about both our moms raving how wonderful he is for taking a child to a physical (scheduled by mom, Who is at work and needs to be there because she handled the sick days last week because dad “can’t” reschedule any meetings) but he is still totally guilty of kicking anything hard or inconvenient to me. He knows that I will always always always find a way to do the things I think are important for the kids so he can just say “I can’t” guilt free.

Also this one reminded me of DCUM:
If I do a task incorrectly, people will tell my partner to praise me for trying.

Totally agree. "He does his best and I do the rest" is absolutely how my marriage and those of pretty much all my friends work. "His best" can vary a bit, but I only know one marriage where I genuinely think the dad is the primary parent and is doing "the rest" and he's a SAHD and his wife is an executive and they have one kid.

I think this is the dirty secret of most dual income couples. It looks pretty equal from the outside -- both partners work, they say the right things, dad is visibly doing stuff like taking kids to activities, cooking, seems engaged. But if you open things up and really look at what is happening, dad is taking kids to activities that mom (who also works) researched, arranged, and provided dad with the schedule for. Dad is cooking but so is mom, and mom is also thinking a week ahead to when her MIL is in town and suggesting they make and freeze an extra casserole so they have a quick dinner for the night she arrives. Mom doesn't always seem engaged, because she's exhausted and has a laundry list of things in her head to keep track of (including laundry).

But the veneer of "things are pretty equal!" is there because it's easier on everyone's ego and it keeps the ship afloat. You could nag and nitpick dad to death but he's never, ever going to do as much as mom. Ever. If you don't want to ruin your marriage and get a divorce, which most of us don't, you just accept the inequity and move on. But it's unequal. Very, very unequal.

“I’m oppressed because DH doesn’t think a week ahead to freeze a casserole for MIL” isn’t quite the own you think it is. That is you concerned about appearances and looking on top of things lest MIL judge you.

Such a great example. Yet what happens when MIL arrives at dinner time on a Tuesday? Has “DH” come home early from work to tidy the house, make up the guest bed, then figured out a nice dinner that allows MIL to feel welcomed while DIL isn’t overly stressed? Lololol. I think we ALL know the answer to that one. Here’s how it really goes:

(Saturday) DW, my mom wants to come stay for a few nights on Tuesday. Is that ok?

DW: of course! your mom is always welcome.

DW: OK, Tuesday I have that presentation at 2 so I won’t have any time to get the house ready on Monday. I think I can get home Tuesday around 5 - that gives me an hour or so to tidy up and put clean sheets on the guest bed. But that doesn’t leave time to make dinner. I think I could put a lasagna together today so I can pop it in the oven Tuesday. Do you think you can do pickup and dropoff on Tuesday so I can make that work?

DH: Why do you have to do any of that? Mom just wants to see the kids, she doesn’t care.

DW: Well the guest bed sheets haven’t been changed since your brother stayed here, the house will be messy, and we do need to eat dinner. I’d like to have something a bit nicer than frozen meatballs for your mom.

DH: Why do you make up all this stuff? None of that needs to be done.

Exactly. This stuff is only considered nitpicky make-work by men who just assume everything will work itself out because, in his experience, everything [through the invisible efforts of all the women around him making adjustments, plans, concessions, etc.] does.

"OMG why do you make everything so hard?!!" Her mistake was discussing out loud the stuff that men are used to women doing silently and without complaint. Oops.

you get it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree a lot of this list is super condescending but there’s some real truth to it. In my marriage, and the marriage of most of my friends the saying “he does his best and I do the rest” is 100 percent the case. It’s not that the dads don’t do anything, it’s that they view virtually everything as optional or extra credit. If my husband gets busy at work or wants to travel, he does that. If one of our kids has extra needs, that’s a problem mom will solve regardless of whether she also works or what else she has going on. My husband is not a bad guy and will laugh about both our moms raving how wonderful he is for taking a child to a physical (scheduled by mom, Who is at work and needs to be there because she handled the sick days last week because dad “can’t” reschedule any meetings) but he is still totally guilty of kicking anything hard or inconvenient to me. He knows that I will always always always find a way to do the things I think are important for the kids so he can just say “I can’t” guilt free.

Also this one reminded me of DCUM:
If I do a task incorrectly, people will tell my partner to praise me for trying.

Totally agree. "He does his best and I do the rest" is absolutely how my marriage and those of pretty much all my friends work. "His best" can vary a bit, but I only know one marriage where I genuinely think the dad is the primary parent and is doing "the rest" and he's a SAHD and his wife is an executive and they have one kid.

I think this is the dirty secret of most dual income couples. It looks pretty equal from the outside -- both partners work, they say the right things, dad is visibly doing stuff like taking kids to activities, cooking, seems engaged. But if you open things up and really look at what is happening, dad is taking kids to activities that mom (who also works) researched, arranged, and provided dad with the schedule for. Dad is cooking but so is mom, and mom is also thinking a week ahead to when her MIL is in town and suggesting they make and freeze an extra casserole so they have a quick dinner for the night she arrives. Mom doesn't always seem engaged, because she's exhausted and has a laundry list of things in her head to keep track of (including laundry).

But the veneer of "things are pretty equal!" is there because it's easier on everyone's ego and it keeps the ship afloat. You could nag and nitpick dad to death but he's never, ever going to do as much as mom. Ever. If you don't want to ruin your marriage and get a divorce, which most of us don't, you just accept the inequity and move on. But it's unequal. Very, very unequal.

“I’m oppressed because DH doesn’t think a week ahead to freeze a casserole for MIL” isn’t quite the own you think it is. That is you concerned about appearances and looking on top of things lest MIL judge you.

Such a great example. Yet what happens when MIL arrives at dinner time on a Tuesday? Has “DH” come home early from work to tidy the house, make up the guest bed, then figured out a nice dinner that allows MIL to feel welcomed while DIL isn’t overly stressed? Lololol. I think we ALL know the answer to that one. Here’s how it really goes:

(Saturday) DW, my mom wants to come stay for a few nights on Tuesday. Is that ok?

DW: of course! your mom is always welcome.

DW: OK, Tuesday I have that presentation at 2 so I won’t have any time to get the house ready on Monday. I think I can get home Tuesday around 5 - that gives me an hour or so to tidy up and put clean sheets on the guest bed. But that doesn’t leave time to make dinner. I think I could put a lasagna together today so I can pop it in the oven Tuesday. Do you think you can do pickup and dropoff on Tuesday so I can make that work?

DH: Why do you have to do any of that? Mom just wants to see the kids, she doesn’t care.

DW: Well the guest bed sheets haven’t been changed since your brother stayed here, the house will be messy, and we do need to eat dinner. I’d like to have something a bit nicer than frozen meatballs for your mom.

DH: Why do you make up all this stuff? None of that needs to be done.

So what? He says something ridiculous. That’s not “male privilege,” that’s just stupidity, Conversation continues:

DW: “ha! I’m definitely not making up basic rules of sanitation. Can you do pick up kids or not, because we will have to reschedule with your mom if you can’t”

rinse repeat for *everything* and that’s a recipe for divorce, truly. especially since DH’s answer would be: ”we’re not rescheduling my mom’s visit. stop acting like a martyr.”

[Anonymous]

From my perspective, my son's father checks most of those items. It's tough because these things are all about neglect. He doesn't get that he's neglecting his son.

In all fairness, he can barely take care of himself and will wait until things are at a critical stage before he reacts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this the new replacement for the mommy wars? Now we can talk about how “household labor inequality is abuse”?

If you think the conversation about an unequal division of labor in households is "new" then welcome to society from the rock you've been living under.

No, it’s the new replacement for the divisive mommy wars. But just like the mommy wars between WOHM and SAHM, so many of these complaints come back to choices. Women can now make more choices about working/staying home, which is the point of feminism, and they can also make choices about what they do for their household and how things are shared with their partner. And of course, they can make choices about who they marry or partner with.

Make your own choices. Make better choices.

No, that wasn't the point of feminism. The point of feminism was to get equal financial footing, including equal pay. It had zero to do with making a "choice" between working and staying home. This is a popular misconception/appropriation of what the women's liberation movement was about.

Nope, it was choices. Your understanding is why some women who work disparage some who don’t because the ones who don’t are letting down other women by not pursuing a career.

It’s messed up.

No, darling. I have a degree in women's studies. It wasn't about "choices." It was about economic empowerment. This notion that was about "choices" is revisionist thinking by entitled women who have no idea what the struggle was like, let alone any understanding of what the movement was about.

Wait, you have a degree in womens studies and are calling me "darling"?

Yes. But I'm glad you're keeping up, hun.

Interesting that a person with a woman’s studies degree would use terms of endearment for a woman who is a total stranger in a way that is not only inappropriate but also, in your case, consciously condescending and demeaning. Ironic that you reveal a bias that deems it acceptable in our society to trivialize, demean and be disrespectful toward women by referring to them as “Darling” or “Hon”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this the new replacement for the mommy wars? Now we can talk about how “household labor inequality is abuse”?

If you think the conversation about an unequal division of labor in households is "new" then welcome to society from the rock you've been living under.

No, it’s the new replacement for the divisive mommy wars. But just like the mommy wars between WOHM and SAHM, so many of these complaints come back to choices. Women can now make more choices about working/staying home, which is the point of feminism, and they can also make choices about what they do for their household and how things are shared with their partner. And of course, they can make choices about who they marry or partner with.

Make your own choices. Make better choices.

No, that wasn't the point of feminism. The point of feminism was to get equal financial footing, including equal pay. It had zero to do with making a "choice" between working and staying home. This is a popular misconception/appropriation of what the women's liberation movement was about.

NP. Flat out wrong. Feminism is about choices.

[Anonymous]

I was reading the list when my husband poked his head into my office to let me know that he had just scheduled two medical appointments for our child and contributed money for teacher appreciation week. He wasn’t planning to volunteer for field day, but wanted me to know the signup was posted in case I was interested.

My hot take is this. If your spouse doesn’t pull their weight with the mental labor and administrative tasks of running a family, your bar was too low when you chose a partner. You can’t re-do that choice, but you can start expecting more.
If your spouse is so busy with such a high paying and depending job that they cannot be bothered with these details, then you can afford help for running your household in the form of an assistant or someone to alleviate whatever tasks are causing you the most stress.

If you refuse to get help or hold your spouse accountable, you are choosing to be a martyr.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this the new replacement for the mommy wars? Now we can talk about how “household labor inequality is abuse”?

If you think the conversation about an unequal division of labor in households is "new" then welcome to society from the rock you've been living under.

No, it’s the new replacement for the divisive mommy wars. But just like the mommy wars between WOHM and SAHM, so many of these complaints come back to choices. Women can now make more choices about working/staying home, which is the point of feminism, and they can also make choices about what they do for their household and how things are shared with their partner. And of course, they can make choices about who they marry or partner with.

Make your own choices. Make better choices.

No, that wasn't the point of feminism. The point of feminism was to get equal financial footing, including equal pay. It had zero to do with making a "choice" between working and staying home. This is a popular misconception/appropriation of what the women's liberation movement was about.

Nope, it was choices. Your understanding is why some women who work disparage some who don’t because the ones who don’t are letting down other women by not pursuing a career.

It’s messed up.

No, darling. I have a degree in women's studies. It wasn't about "choices." It was about economic empowerment. This notion that was about "choices" is revisionist thinking by entitled women who have no idea what the struggle was like, let alone any understanding of what the movement was about.

LOL. Ask for your money back. A degree in women’s studies doesn’t give you the right to redefine feminism for everyone. It is NOT about equal pay, it’s about choices: opportunities and female-empowered decision making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find it here: https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist

Please read the checklist and return for a conversation about it. I want to hear from others about their own experiences with coparenting their children with the children's dad.

Honestly, this is trope stacked on top of trope and is really some lazy thinking by someone heavily invested in martyred mothering (just note the name of the substack -- "Liberating Motherhood" -- this thing comes at this with an axe to grind and part of the business model is to stoke outrage; it's not dissimilar from right-wing news media like Fox or Newsmax in that regard.) The article itself incredibly lazy thinking that borrows the language of liberation theology for cynical purposes, and I'm going to hazard a guess that the "checklist" is just a crowdsourced list of grievances from women with a similar mindset. In other words, I don't think the author has any original thoughts on the matter.

This is not to say some individual items on the list aren't valid phenomena -- I have definitely been approached by women at the playground when I was out with my toddlers and praised for being a great dad and giving mom a "break," for example, but I've also been approached by women keen on "helping" me because they assumed by these women to be incompetent because I have a penis). So, this isn't really dad "privilege" so much as it is a recounting of various stereotypes that are harmful to both women AND men. It's kind of like the dumb, clueless dad trope you used to see in advertising (and thankfully don't see so much anymore, that ridiculous car commercial where the dad gets the wrong binky notwithstanding).

So, I'm not going to say "not all men." I'm going to say "hardly any men" fit this list of "privilege." (Another co-opted term intended to provoke a response, natch).

Let's just look at the first two:

I know that someone else will register my children for school.

I know that someone else will know the signs of developmental disabilities and mental health issues in my children.

I guess we're assume that these things are exclusively the mom's domain? But I don't think that's true in any family I know of. I will say that same as women are known to approach dads at playgrounds and either praise or offer to help them, schools similarly default to contacting the mom, nevermind the fact that most dads are perfectly competent and capable caregivers.

I know of NO families where the presence of developmental disabilities or mental health issues are unilateral concerns for just mom.

The third one on the list about giving birth was first the clue to me that this was a crowdsourced list -- it's just dripping with contempt and doesn't make sense.

The next two:

My partner will be judged for my parenting shortcomings.

I don’t have to worry about school supplies because someone else will do it for me.

I guess it's true that men, in general, don't give a shit what other people think so wouldn't fret about being "judged." That's not "privilege," however. That's just a case of having self-confidence. To the degree women have more insecurities and worry about what other people think, that's a woman problem (and probably an individual one), not some broader indictment of men; everyone should carry on without caring what other people think, much less caring if someone else is "judging."

The school supplies thing is just stupid -- we always did back-to-school shopping as a family and there were plenty of dads doing the same when we were at Staples or whatever.

The men I know make doctors appointments and take their kids to doctors. They cook. They plan birthday parties (granted, these birthday parties might not be the elaborate affairs some martyr moms might feel like they need to have so they don't feel judged, but that, again, is a woman problem, it's not "dad privilege."). They plan trips and pack their children for them. They chaperone school field trips. In fact, they do most of these things on this list except things they're physically incapable of, such as giving birth or breastfeeding. But they do, in fact, pick up the slack when their partners DO those physical things, the contemptuous tone of the bulleted list items notwithstanding.

So, I guess what I'm saying is I dispute the very premise of the article. I understand it was written to try to rile up women feeling resentful about things. But objectively, the insinuation that men don't do the things on this (ridiculously long, crow-sourced list) is unsupported by facts, except for some things that might fall more into the bucket of "emotional labor," which takes us back to those conversations since, at the end of the day, there are some things some moms care a lot more about than most dads -- and most of those are grounded in <checks notes> fear of "being judged" or other anxieties that men, generally, don't have.

Is not having that anxiety "dad privilege?" I suppose you could make the case. But, honestly, moms didn't have that anxiety for most millennia. If the supposition here is that men should start caring about these things that give moms anxiety (fear of being judged...) that's arguably stupid. Misery loves company, sure... But maybe, just maybe, women should take a page from the attitude most dads have and stop obsessing so much about things that don't matter in the long run.

+1,000 to this guy.

I work FT and am a very involved dad, and always have been. So were my dad, and my FIL.

My wife works PT, and does more than half, but less than 2/3 of family logistical management.

I do all grocery shopping and 90% of the cooking.

Many of you are complaining, essentially, that the judgment from society surrrounding parenting and child outcomes falls primarily on mom. There is truth to that.

You’re ignoring that, likewise, the judgment for the family’s earning and financial situation falls primarily on dad. When people think “it’s too bad they aren’t able to stay in a fancier hotel at Disney World, or travel to Europe for Spring Break, or send four kids to private colleges,” they’re wondering why dad doesn’t earn more. Not mom. So enjoy your “mom privilege.”

Ultimately, only we can decide for ourselves wise will individually adopt this guilt as our own burdens. My wife and I decided long ago that we would not, and we’re a lot happier for it. Highly recommend anyone who wants to submit such lists to substack instead try to find the same peace and confidence.

I have literally never heard anyone ever wonder why a dad isn’t earning more or say any version of anything you quoted. It’s really hard to believe this has happened to you more than once if at all. Or you hang out with total jerks.

What I do hear constantly is women who are judged as being bad moms for working AND other moms who are judged for being lazy because the SAH. Every choice a mom makes is fair game for judgement. You have no idea what you are talking about.

You don’t think that Dads who stay home don’t get judged as lazy? I sure have news for you.

They absolutely do. Or it’s just automatically assumed they have night hours or are free lancing and aren’t “really” staying at home.