Incentives to Keep Teachers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are already plenty of incentives. The problem is the grass is always greener, but at least there's no shortage of new teachers to fill in for the unhappy ones who leave.

Exactly. They get really good benefits and there are housing programs already. And after the first few years the pay is decent to good for a ten month employee and they get tuition benefits for a masters or PhD.

And yet we can’t keep teachers in the classroom. Here we are commenting on a thread about how to incentivize people to stay in the profession.

TEACHERS know that the benefits aren’t worth the agony, but DCUM is here to tell teachers that their jobs are amazing. We’ll keep pretending that the teacher shortage isn’t a thing.

I am an MCPS employee. I know the benefits are great and my pay is not bad. I am a few years away from retiring with my full pension and I am leaving at the end of the school year. The stress and constant changes and demands are no longer worth it. I handed in my retirement papers and feel like the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders.

Most jobs have constant changes and demands. The only difference is you don’t have to be worried about being terminated for no good reason.

People who haven’t taught should stop commenting on the job because you don’t know it. Sure, other jobs have changes (challenges, you mean?) and demands. Some of them are even hard jobs. But they aren’t teaching, which comes with a unique set of challenges.

I’ve worked other jobs AND I’ve taught.

You think social workers, police, fire fighters, EMT's have it easy? Why don't you try being child welfare investigator for a week?

I live with a police officer. I just asked. He says he has it easier.

Depends on his actual job. Mine was not.

Fair to say “depends on the actual job” about teachers, too? Also, do you (or he) have enough experience with teaching to make that claim?

[Anonymous]

Modern teaching is emotionally and intellectually draining. Because the the pervasive disrespect from students, admin, and society it’s just not worth putting up with so many abusive situations.

The classrooms now are not what many of use remember. A teacher can’t easily just sit at a desk. That’s very rare in my experience at the middle school and elementary school levels. There are too many constant decisions about so many issues that can be out of our control yet we are expected to “try harder” with little additional support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

That wasn’t the PP’s point AT ALL. She’s an overworked, mistreated, burned-out teacher at the end of her rope. My guess is she just put in 3 miserable years the likes of which you can’t imagine, trying to put out many fires simultaneously and seeing very few results (and being disrespected for her efforts). She works in a system designed to fail, and she the one keeping it together through late nights and exhausting days.

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with trying to get students with special needs out of schools. Stop assuming the worst and accept that teachers are burning out as they try to make something with nothing for your children. The only correct thing to say is “thank you for your 3 years and I’m sorry.”

Read her post again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

That wasn’t the PP’s point AT ALL. She’s an overworked, mistreated, burned-out teacher at the end of her rope. My guess is she just put in 3 miserable years the likes of which you can’t imagine, trying to put out many fires simultaneously and seeing very few results (and being disrespected for her efforts). She works in a system designed to fail, and she the one keeping it together through late nights and exhausting days.

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with trying to get students with special needs out of schools. Stop assuming the worst and accept that teachers are burning out as they try to make something with nothing for your children. The only correct thing to say is “thank you for your 3 years and I’m sorry.”

Read her post again.

Still no.

She wrote: “ there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance”. And why will that be? Because everyone is quitting. It has nothing to do with trying to get students with special needs out of the system and EVERYTHING to do with teachers burning out. What she wrote is a warning. This is where we are heading because people can’t endure the exhaustion of teaching anymore. She’s saying there will be no teachers. That’s all.

So, teacher PP: once again, thank you for your three years. I’m sorry teaching is this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

That wasn’t the PP’s point AT ALL. She’s an overworked, mistreated, burned-out teacher at the end of her rope. My guess is she just put in 3 miserable years the likes of which you can’t imagine, trying to put out many fires simultaneously and seeing very few results (and being disrespected for her efforts). She works in a system designed to fail, and she the one keeping it together through late nights and exhausting days.

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with trying to get students with special needs out of schools. Stop assuming the worst and accept that teachers are burning out as they try to make something with nothing for your children. The only correct thing to say is “thank you for your 3 years and I’m sorry.”

Read her post again.

Still no.

She wrote: “ there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance”. And why will that be? Because everyone is quitting. It has nothing to do with trying to get students with special needs out of the system and EVERYTHING to do with teachers burning out. What she wrote is a warning. This is where we are heading because people can’t endure the exhaustion of teaching anymore. She’s saying there will be no teachers. That’s all.

So, teacher PP: once again, thank you for your three years. I’m sorry teaching is this way.

Critical thinking isn't a strong suit for you?

The very notion of private insurance being "taken over" by private insurance is quite telling. This would be both illegal and unworkable, and obviously will never happen. So the pp wasn't commenting on what she *thinks* will happen-- she is commenting on what she *wishes* could happen.

Yet, despite not being constrained by reality, she still chose to make that one of her key points about the current and future state of public education. Why do you think that is? And what do you think she imagines that would look like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

I don’t think this was what the PP was saying, but that said, I do think that such a proposal would pass at this point if it was put to a public vote. Classrooms are just far too disruptive now for any learning to take place, and the majority of people are sick of it. The laws should be changed to only allow kids to stay in mainstream classrooms, special ed diagnoses or not, if they do not interfere with the learning of other students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

I don’t think this was what the PP was saying, but that said, I do think that such a proposal would pass at this point if it was put to a public vote. Classrooms are just far too disruptive now for any learning to take place, and the majority of people are sick of it. The laws should be changed to only allow kids to stay in mainstream classrooms, special ed diagnoses or not, if they do not interfere with the learning of other students.

You seem to suddenly have a bulge in the front of your pants, too.

Would a referendum like that pass? Maybe. Lots of crazy ideas could pass a vote of the masses. But it is never going to happen, not the least because it is unworkable.

It's not clear it would pass even a vote of the masses. Have you looked at how many kids these days have IEPs or 504 plans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

I don’t think this was what the PP was saying, but that said, I do think that such a proposal would pass at this point if it was put to a public vote. Classrooms are just far too disruptive now for any learning to take place, and the majority of people are sick of it. The laws should be changed to only allow kids to stay in mainstream classrooms, special ed diagnoses or not, if they do not interfere with the learning of other students.

Sounds good to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

That wasn’t the PP’s point AT ALL. She’s an overworked, mistreated, burned-out teacher at the end of her rope. My guess is she just put in 3 miserable years the likes of which you can’t imagine, trying to put out many fires simultaneously and seeing very few results (and being disrespected for her efforts). She works in a system designed to fail, and she the one keeping it together through late nights and exhausting days.

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with trying to get students with special needs out of schools. Stop assuming the worst and accept that teachers are burning out as they try to make something with nothing for your children. The only correct thing to say is “thank you for your 3 years and I’m sorry.”

Read her post again.

Still no.

She wrote: “ there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance”. And why will that be? Because everyone is quitting. It has nothing to do with trying to get students with special needs out of the system and EVERYTHING to do with teachers burning out. What she wrote is a warning. This is where we are heading because people can’t endure the exhaustion of teaching anymore. She’s saying there will be no teachers. That’s all.

So, teacher PP: once again, thank you for your three years. I’m sorry teaching is this way.

Critical thinking isn't a strong suit for you?

The very notion of private insurance being "taken over" by private insurance is quite telling. This would be both illegal and unworkable, and obviously will never happen. So the pp wasn't commenting on what she *thinks* will happen-- she is commenting on what she *wishes* could happen.

Yet, despite not being constrained by reality, she still chose to make that one of her key points about the current and future state of public education. Why do you think that is? And what do you think she imagines that would look like?

Ugh. Perhaps this isn’t about you at all. I suspect she is merely making a comment on the fact that, like her, teachers are fleeing from the sinking ship that is education. What happens when there are no more teachers to insult, disrespect, and overwork? Perhaps she made that comment because she works within SpEd and it was on her mind. Your premise that she is WISHING for that to happen doesn’t fit. Why would she wish for that? My guess is she wishes for a job that doesn’t drive people to tears by 3pm.

So again: not about you. This is about a worn out teacher and nothing more. Instead of tearing apart a teacher who actually tried to help children for a few years, why don’t you suit up and teach? Then you may have a better understanding of this poster’s comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

I don’t think this was what the PP was saying, but that said, I do think that such a proposal would pass at this point if it was put to a public vote. Classrooms are just far too disruptive now for any learning to take place, and the majority of people are sick of it. The laws should be changed to only allow kids to stay in mainstream classrooms, special ed diagnoses or not, if they do not interfere with the learning of other students.

Sounds good to me.

That's the current law, with the caveat that the school needs to try services and supports for the student that could make the mainstream classroom effective and appropriate.

The law isn't the issue here. The issue is that schools don't want to provide services/supports nor do they want to move students to more restrictive placements because both are expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

I don’t think this was what the PP was saying, but that said, I do think that such a proposal would pass at this point if it was put to a public vote. Classrooms are just far too disruptive now for any learning to take place, and the majority of people are sick of it. The laws should be changed to only allow kids to stay in mainstream classrooms, special ed diagnoses or not, if they do not interfere with the learning of other students.

You seem to suddenly have a bulge in the front of your pants, too.

Would a referendum like that pass? Maybe. Lots of crazy ideas could pass a vote of the masses. But it is never going to happen, not the least because it is unworkable.

It's not clear it would pass even a vote of the masses. Have you looked at how many kids these days have IEPs or 504 plans?

I recently had a class of 36. Over half of them had an IEP or a 504. I had a coteacher, but that wasn’t nearly enough. Every time we had an assessment, I had to give it 5 different ways to meet all the plans. When I gave classwork, I had to produce it in 3 different ways. During group work, we had to contend with 12-14 hands up simultaneously. There we just 2 of us. 6 adults still wouldn’t have been enough.

Yes, I’m aware how many students have 504s and IEPs. So many that teachers cannot adequately meet all their needs simultaneously. We are mere humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

I don’t think this was what the PP was saying, but that said, I do think that such a proposal would pass at this point if it was put to a public vote. Classrooms are just far too disruptive now for any learning to take place, and the majority of people are sick of it. The laws should be changed to only allow kids to stay in mainstream classrooms, special ed diagnoses or not, if they do not interfere with the learning of other students.

You seem to suddenly have a bulge in the front of your pants, too.

Would a referendum like that pass? Maybe. Lots of crazy ideas could pass a vote of the masses. But it is never going to happen, not the least because it is unworkable.

It's not clear it would pass even a vote of the masses. Have you looked at how many kids these days have IEPs or 504 plans?

I recently had a class of 36. Over half of them had an IEP or a 504. I had a coteacher, but that wasn’t nearly enough. Every time we had an assessment, I had to give it 5 different ways to meet all the plans. When I gave classwork, I had to produce it in 3 different ways. During group work, we had to contend with 12-14 hands up simultaneously. There we just 2 of us. 6 adults still wouldn’t have been enough.

Yes, I’m aware how many students have 504s and IEPs. So many that teachers cannot adequately meet all their needs simultaneously. We are mere humans.

I think this would be addressed with appropriate tracking in classes. The behavioral issues about disrupting other people are something else. And neither of those is directly linked to special ed. There are some special Ed kids who don’t disturb anyone and who could be easily managed with appropriate tracking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

I don’t think this was what the PP was saying, but that said, I do think that such a proposal would pass at this point if it was put to a public vote. Classrooms are just far too disruptive now for any learning to take place, and the majority of people are sick of it. The laws should be changed to only allow kids to stay in mainstream classrooms, special ed diagnoses or not, if they do not interfere with the learning of other students.

You seem to suddenly have a bulge in the front of your pants, too.

Would a referendum like that pass? Maybe. Lots of crazy ideas could pass a vote of the masses. But it is never going to happen, not the least because it is unworkable.

It's not clear it would pass even a vote of the masses. Have you looked at how many kids these days have IEPs or 504 plans?

Some special ed kids need a calmer environment and would definitely vote for disruptive students leaving mainstream classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

I don’t think this was what the PP was saying, but that said, I do think that such a proposal would pass at this point if it was put to a public vote. Classrooms are just far too disruptive now for any learning to take place, and the majority of people are sick of it. The laws should be changed to only allow kids to stay in mainstream classrooms, special ed diagnoses or not, if they do not interfere with the learning of other students.

You seem to suddenly have a bulge in the front of your pants, too.

Would a referendum like that pass? Maybe. Lots of crazy ideas could pass a vote of the masses. But it is never going to happen, not the least because it is unworkable.

It's not clear it would pass even a vote of the masses. Have you looked at how many kids these days have IEPs or 504 plans?

I recently had a class of 36. Over half of them had an IEP or a 504. I had a coteacher, but that wasn’t nearly enough. Every time we had an assessment, I had to give it 5 different ways to meet all the plans. When I gave classwork, I had to produce it in 3 different ways. During group work, we had to contend with 12-14 hands up simultaneously. There we just 2 of us. 6 adults still wouldn’t have been enough.

Yes, I’m aware how many students have 504s and IEPs. So many that teachers cannot adequately meet all their needs simultaneously. We are mere humans.

Exactly. I certainly agree MCPS, and school systems at-large, are not resourcing special education services appropriately-- both the supports in mainstream classrooms and the self-contained programs. But the scope of special needs makes it wildly impractical to somehow move that out of public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm a "let the whole system burn" teacher. I don't care what happens to it anymore. Truly. 3 years and I'm done. I truly believe there's going to be a whole meltdown, there'll be entire schools that have to close and or class sizes in the 40's or 50's, and eventually special ed will have to be taken over through private insurance. But again, I don't care anymore. This system has chewed me up and spit me out. Let it burn.

There's a small group of posters that get hard at the thought of getting children with special needs out of public schools so that they and their kids won't have to see them anymore.

Keep it in your pants. It isn't going to happen.

I don’t think this was what the PP was saying, but that said, I do think that such a proposal would pass at this point if it was put to a public vote. Classrooms are just far too disruptive now for any learning to take place, and the majority of people are sick of it. The laws should be changed to only allow kids to stay in mainstream classrooms, special ed diagnoses or not, if they do not interfere with the learning of other students.

You seem to suddenly have a bulge in the front of your pants, too.

Would a referendum like that pass? Maybe. Lots of crazy ideas could pass a vote of the masses. But it is never going to happen, not the least because it is unworkable.

It's not clear it would pass even a vote of the masses. Have you looked at how many kids these days have IEPs or 504 plans?

I recently had a class of 36. Over half of them had an IEP or a 504. I had a coteacher, but that wasn’t nearly enough. Every time we had an assessment, I had to give it 5 different ways to meet all the plans. When I gave classwork, I had to produce it in 3 different ways. During group work, we had to contend with 12-14 hands up simultaneously. There we just 2 of us. 6 adults still wouldn’t have been enough.

Yes, I’m aware how many students have 504s and IEPs. So many that teachers cannot adequately meet all their needs simultaneously. We are mere humans.

Exactly. I certainly agree MCPS, and school systems at-large, are not resourcing special education services appropriately-- both the supports in mainstream classrooms and the self-contained programs. But the scope of special needs makes it wildly impractical to somehow move that out of public schools.

I don't think it's possible to resource special education the way they used to because there are 3X-4X as many kids being diagnosed these days especially at the wealthier schools.