Explain ridiculously early 2023/24 start date?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AGREED!!!

But they did all those surveys and we have a lot of transplants in the NOVA region from the south who think school should end at memorial day and start again in mid-August. It does not make sense to anyone who lives here long term and realizes that the government basically shuts down in August - which has a ripple effect to private sector. We should have summer from mid-June until Labor Day, possibly the week before Labor if it's a particularly late one.

Although the real issue is that the school year is too long because they added tons of professional development days that the teachers don't even want, and they added lot of religious holidays to assuage their guilt of tying spring break to Easter (again, wanted on the surveys because it helps FCPS line up with other districts) and giving a "Christmas" break.

Labor day to mid/late June is the worst.

We end up with a month of zero learning from SOLs/AP exams in mid May to the end of the school year.

+1. Late August start is ideal. Now if we can just get them to separate Spring Break from Easter I'd be very happy.

I like to travel over Easter. I'd also like Good Friday off.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am probably in the minority here. I would rather have a shorter summer and more days off during the school year. Kids and teachers need some extra time to re-fuel and catch up with work. Those extra days spread over the school year also give families more options to schedule doctors appts without taking kids out of school. Oh, then there is also that pesky “summer slide”.

I taught for many years, and yes, a lot of those PD sessions were a waste of time, but they at least gave teachers a day off from lesson planning. A happier, relaxed teacher is a better teacher.

Also, families could schedule vacations in the off season. I kept hearing about so many stories this summer of families in Italy struggling in the heat! Not us! We cannot afford those trips.

+1

My preferred schedule would be a 6 week summer and two weeks between each quarter and a 3/4 day weekend in the middle of the quarter.

+1
I would love that schedule too. HS kids could still be lifeguards and camp counselors full time during the break. They could do evening and weekend shifts when school is in session. In reality, most HS kids only work 6 weeks during the 9 week summer anyway... with travel, sports, etc. Most "teen-hiring' companies easily find ways to deal with different schedules. (HS teacher and parent of 9th and 12th grader here.)

+1 I would LOVE to see the 6-7 week summer with 2 week breaks in between each quarter. If wishes were horses...

Same. I also think it would help families struggling to pay for camps. Paying for 12 weeks of camp at once really is a burden. I don't like vacationing in the summer and would like 2 weeks pretty much any other time of the year (not Christmas, I don't travel on Christmas).

Also, yeah, my kids like spending holidays in school. Halloween was always a fun one, so was veterans day (they'd have a parade) and presidents day. I don't get why school is closed on bank holidays?!

Bank Holidays are federal holidays when MANY parents have the day off. I am guessing that it caused problems with absences in the schools.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

Well if you add in the no preference it is about equal. You have to also remember they surveyed employees and students.

Employees and Students
2 weeks before LD- E-50% S-43%
1 week before LD- E-35% S- 32%
No Preference E-10%. S- 19%
Other- E- 5 %. S- 5%

In my opinion, parents should have no say. My school district never surveyed parents. They created the calendar and no one complained. We started after Labor Day and went into Late June (June 24-26).

What a horrible schedule.

No school should go into late June. You miss the best weather of summer vacation.

I am the PP. I didn’t know any better because this was the norm in NY. Secondly, we didn’t travel during the summer. Day Camp and Sleep Away camp is huge in NY. We went to camp and loved it!

I think these schedules work in the NE where they don't have really warm weather until June and then they want to make the most of the August weather before it gets cold in the fall. Other places don't care because they have longer times with summer weather.

I agree with this. I went to School in New England. It was not as hot/humid in August as it is here.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

No. Think about it.

Teachers typically have about 5 before the SY starts and 2 after it ends. If you swap the other TWDs during the SY for student days then students would have to attend 188 days to maintain 195 contract days.

Sorry, you aren’t making sense. The contract is for teachers. Not the students. As long as the teachers work 195 days it doesn’t matter.

Ok, but those TWDs will have to be moved to before or after the SY.

This isn’t that hard. There are 195 Teacher Days and 180 student days. Currently, Columbus Day is a TWD. So whether students are there or not, it won’t affect the number days a teacher works. We should eliminate some of the extra work days. We don’t need all of them.

Yes. It shouldn’t be that hard. That’s what I am saying to you.

Currently Columbus Day is a TWD. It’s a TWD in addition to the student school days. If you make Columbus Day a student day you have removed the TWD. You are minus one day.

I’m fine with eliminating some of the extra workdays, but keep in mind simply eliminating them and making them student days to end the SY earlier results in fewer teacher days.

Do this for me. Start with 180 student days and then show where the additional 15 teacher days will fall without adding the TWDs in somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

No. Think about it.

Teachers typically have about 5 before the SY starts and 2 after it ends. If you swap the other TWDs during the SY for student days then students would have to attend 188 days to maintain 195 contract days.

Sorry, you aren’t making sense. The contract is for teachers. Not the students. As long as the teachers work 195 days it doesn’t matter.

Ok, but those TWDs will have to be moved to before or after the SY.

This isn’t that hard. There are 195 Teacher Days and 180 student days. Currently, Columbus Day is a TWD. So whether students are there or not, it won’t affect the number days a teacher works. We should eliminate some of the extra work days. We don’t need all of them.

Yes. It shouldn’t be that hard. That’s what I am saying to you.

Currently Columbus Day is a TWD. It’s a TWD in addition to the student school days. If you make Columbus Day a student day you have removed the TWD. You are minus one day.

I’m fine with eliminating some of the extra workdays, but keep in mind simply eliminating them and making them student days to end the SY earlier results in fewer teacher days.

Do this for me. Start with 180 student days and then show where the additional 15 teacher days will fall without adding the TWDs in somewhere else.

Edit to say, “without showing to where you will move those 8 TWD”.

[Anonymous]

There should be no school in July or August.

Let kids be kids FFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm betting that all these people lobbying for start after Labor Day are the ones that want to take advantage of cheaper prices at the beach--because most schools start before Labor Day.
.

…and?

Maybe they aren’t as privileged as you to be able to take family vacations during winter break or spring break when the prices are so inflated?

[Anonymous]

I could get on board with total closure for December,
Total closure for July.

Beyond that do what you want FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

No. Think about it.

Teachers typically have about 5 before the SY starts and 2 after it ends. If you swap the other TWDs during the SY for student days then students would have to attend 188 days to maintain 195 contract days.

Sorry, you aren’t making sense. The contract is for teachers. Not the students. As long as the teachers work 195 days it doesn’t matter.

Ok, but those TWDs will have to be moved to before or after the SY.

This isn’t that hard. There are 195 Teacher Days and 180 student days. Currently, Columbus Day is a TWD. So whether students are there or not, it won’t affect the number days a teacher works. We should eliminate some of the extra work days. We don’t need all of them.

Yes. It shouldn’t be that hard. That’s what I am saying to you.

Currently Columbus Day is a TWD. It’s a TWD in addition to the student school days. If you make Columbus Day a student day you have removed the TWD. You are minus one day.

I’m fine with eliminating some of the extra workdays, but keep in mind simply eliminating them and making them student days to end the SY earlier results in fewer teacher days.

Do this for me. Start with 180 student days and then show where the additional 15 teacher days will fall without adding the TWDs in somewhere else.

If Columbus Day turned into a student day, the school year will end a day earlier. Kids will have 180 days and teachers will still have 195.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

It is if we shorten winter break spring break or religious holidays - but you can't have it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

No. Think about it.

Teachers typically have about 5 before the SY starts and 2 after it ends. If you swap the other TWDs during the SY for student days then students would have to attend 188 days to maintain 195 contract days.

Sorry, you aren’t making sense. The contract is for teachers. Not the students. As long as the teachers work 195 days it doesn’t matter.

Ok, but those TWDs will have to be moved to before or after the SY.

This isn’t that hard. There are 195 Teacher Days and 180 student days. Currently, Columbus Day is a TWD. So whether students are there or not, it won’t affect the number days a teacher works. We should eliminate some of the extra work days. We don’t need all of them.

Yes. It shouldn’t be that hard. That’s what I am saying to you.

Currently Columbus Day is a TWD. It’s a TWD in addition to the student school days. If you make Columbus Day a student day you have removed the TWD. You are minus one day.

I’m fine with eliminating some of the extra workdays, but keep in mind simply eliminating them and making them student days to end the SY earlier results in fewer teacher days.

Do this for me. Start with 180 student days and then show where the additional 15 teacher days will fall without adding the TWDs in somewhere else.

If Columbus Day turned into a student day, the school year will end a day earlier. Kids will have 180 days and teachers will still have 195.

The teachers are working either way that day. So ending the school year a day earlier then leaves 194 days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There should be no school in July or August.

Let kids be kids FFS.

Speaking of letting kids be kids - we historically had 10 weeks of summer in FCPS. This summer we have 9, and next summer 9.5. I think it sucks to lose a week of summer, but obviously no one in charge cares what I think!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be no school in July or August.

Let kids be kids FFS.

Speaking of letting kids be kids - we historically had 10 weeks of summer in FCPS. This summer we have 9, and next summer 9.5. I think it sucks to lose a week of summer, but obviously no one in charge cares what I think!

times have changed. Most families have two working parents. It is significantly more burdensome on families now to have to source and pay for camps than it was 20+ years ago. The 12 week summer just doesn't make any sense. Plus, many families simply cannot afford the backup child care that summer entails.

While I disagree with a lot of what the school board does, shortening summer is a move that I support. It's absurd to think that kids should be out for 10+ weeks. IMO, it should be no more than 3-5 weeks to modernize the system. Even that, I think, is a stretch for most working families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Simply don’t understand it. Raised in PA. Started school the day after Labor Day, had Columbus and Veterans days off, Thanksgiving, Friday after Thanksgiving and the following Monday (first day of hunting season) off in the fall. Two week break at Christmas, both Presidents birthdays in February, spring break week at Easter and out no later than June10th.

No teacher in service days, no days of at the end of the quarter, no CRT training, etc. All teacher training, usually a week or less, done in August.

Worked fine then, could work now.

I grew up in PA to the same schedule. But the problem is that there are a lot more people now who are other religions besides Christianity. Many school districts have now added Jewish and Muslim holidays to the calendar or at least scheduled teacher professional days on those holidays. Many districts have found that they have a high teacher-requested days off for Jewish or Muslim holidays from staff that observe those holidays. And with a sub shortage, they often don't have sufficient coverage for those days. They also have a lot of student approved-absenteeism on those days for families that observe them and they found that there was a lot of extra work to accommodate those students. So, in many jurisdictions, it is easier to have those days off. Even if they put a professional day, then a teacher taking a vacation day on the professional day does not require a substitute be acquired to fill the teacher's space. The teacher then makes up the work at some other time, just like if she had to take off any other work day.

Also, unlike "back in the day" there are a lot more non-teaching requirements for teachers. There are a lot more standardized tests, documentation that teachers have to write. And grading and commenting via on-line tools like Canvas and other tools are more time-consuming that just hand-writing a grade on a form. Plus there are many, many more IEPs and 504s (which were unheard of back in our day) and documenting and meeting for those individually takes up a lot more time. With all of the extracurricular requirements on teachers, they need the professional days to meet those requirements. I know many teachers who put in 20-30 hours per week outside of the classroom just to tread water and keep up with all of the external requirements put on teachers these days. That didn't happen when we were kids.

So, the conditions are not the same as when we were kids. So the old schedule doesn't work ay more.

[Anonymous]

I just looked up pricing for Christmas break and spring break and both are beyond my budget. And the 3 day weekends really won't work for a real trip.

So that leaves August because I have a huge work event in July, but my kid does a high school sport so basically we can never go away.