Explain ridiculously early 2023/24 start date?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

Well if you add in the no preference it is about equal. You have to also remember they surveyed employees and students.

Employees and Students
2 weeks before LD- E-50% S-43%
1 week before LD- E-35% S- 32%
No Preference E-10%. S- 19%
Other- E- 5 %. S- 5%

In my opinion, parents should have no say. My school district never surveyed parents. They created the calendar and no one complained. We started after Labor Day and went into Late June (June 24-26).

What a horrible schedule.

No school should go into late June. You miss the best weather of summer vacation.

Lots of camps start in June. Back when we went into late June, sports camps were limited because of this.

Also, new student orientation in colleges often start in June. DS was limited because he had a late graduation date here.

[Anonymous]

I was curious and looked up the calendar for the district I attended. The students start Wednesday September 6 and their last day is June 6. They attend 178 days and teacher 184. Their breaks are shorter. (TH, F for Thanksgiving, F, M, Tu around Easter, last day before winter break is Dec 21 and they return Jan 3.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found the article where is discusses US schooling start times and start dates for students.

2 percent- Start last week of July
12 percent- Start 1st week of August
29 percent- second week of August
19 percent- Third week of Aug
14 percent- Last week of August
23 percent- After Labor Day

August start is normal for most of US.

Interesting - and still almost a quarter start after Labor Day.
What are the percentages based on though? Districts? Actual student numbers? Because if that 23% with a start after Labor Day is 23% of school districts and they are the giant school districts in the northeast than it could be a much higher percentage of actual students who start after Labor Day.
Needs more clarification to be useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

No. Think about it.

Teachers typically have about 5 before the SY starts and 2 after it ends. If you swap the other TWDs during the SY for student days then students would have to attend 188 days to maintain 195 contract days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

No. Think about it.

Teachers typically have about 5 before the SY starts and 2 after it ends. If you swap the other TWDs during the SY for student days then students would have to attend 188 days to maintain 195 contract days.

Ok. But teachers are still working on student days. Making it a student day vs a TWD doesn’t change the teacher contract at all. Teachers will still work 195 days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

No. Think about it.

Teachers typically have about 5 before the SY starts and 2 after it ends. If you swap the other TWDs during the SY for student days then students would have to attend 188 days to maintain 195 contract days.

Sorry, you aren’t making sense. The contract is for teachers. Not the students. As long as the teachers work 195 days it doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

No. Think about it.

Teachers typically have about 5 before the SY starts and 2 after it ends. If you swap the other TWDs during the SY for student days then students would have to attend 188 days to maintain 195 contract days.

Ok. But teachers are still working on student days. Making it a student day vs a TWD doesn’t change the teacher contract at all. Teachers will still work 195 days.

They are still working the student days but are no longer working the TWDs that were IN ADDITION TO those student days. Are you saying the students will now go 188 days? If not, how do you get to the 195?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

No. Think about it.

Teachers typically have about 5 before the SY starts and 2 after it ends. If you swap the other TWDs during the SY for student days then students would have to attend 188 days to maintain 195 contract days.

Sorry, you aren’t making sense. The contract is for teachers. Not the students. As long as the teachers work 195 days it doesn’t matter.

Ok, but those TWDs will have to be moved to before or after the SY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AGREED!!!

But they did all those surveys and we have a lot of transplants in the NOVA region from the south who think school should end at memorial day and start again in mid-August. It does not make sense to anyone who lives here long term and realizes that the government basically shuts down in August - which has a ripple effect to private sector. We should have summer from mid-June until Labor Day, possibly the week before Labor if it's a particularly late one.

Although the real issue is that the school year is too long because they added tons of professional development days that the teachers don't even want, and they added lot of religious holidays to assuage their guilt of tying spring break to Easter (again, wanted on the surveys because it helps FCPS line up with other districts) and giving a "Christmas" break.

Labor day to mid/late June is the worst.

We end up with a month of zero learning from SOLs/AP exams in mid May to the end of the school year.

+1. Late August start is ideal. Now if we can just get them to separate Spring Break from Easter I'd be very happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

Well if you add in the no preference it is about equal. You have to also remember they surveyed employees and students.

Employees and Students
2 weeks before LD- E-50% S-43%
1 week before LD- E-35% S- 32%
No Preference E-10%. S- 19%
Other- E- 5 %. S- 5%

In my opinion, parents should have no say. My school district never surveyed parents. They created the calendar and no one complained. We started after Labor Day and went into Late June (June 24-26).

What a horrible schedule.

No school should go into late June. You miss the best weather of summer vacation.

I am the PP. I didn’t know any better because this was the norm in NY. Secondly, we didn’t travel during the summer. Day Camp and Sleep Away camp is huge in NY. We went to camp and loved it!

I think these schedules work in the NE where they don't have really warm weather until June and then they want to make the most of the August weather before it gets cold in the fall. Other places don't care because they have longer times with summer weather.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found the article where is discusses US schooling start times and start dates for students.

2 percent- Start last week of July
12 percent- Start 1st week of August
29 percent- second week of August
19 percent- Third week of Aug
14 percent- Last week of August
23 percent- After Labor Day

August start is normal for most of US.

Interesting - and still almost a quarter start after Labor Day.
What are the percentages based on though? Districts? Actual student numbers? Because if that 23% with a start after Labor Day is 23% of school districts and they are the giant school districts in the northeast than it could be a much higher percentage of actual students who start after Labor Day.
Needs more clarification to be useful.

The data is percentage of students not districts. Secondly, all of the districts in North East are smaller districts except for NYC. My district in NY had 8 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am probably in the minority here. I would rather have a shorter summer and more days off during the school year. Kids and teachers need some extra time to re-fuel and catch up with work. Those extra days spread over the school year also give families more options to schedule doctors appts without taking kids out of school. Oh, then there is also that pesky “summer slide”.

I taught for many years, and yes, a lot of those PD sessions were a waste of time, but they at least gave teachers a day off from lesson planning. A happier, relaxed teacher is a better teacher.

Also, families could schedule vacations in the off season. I kept hearing about so many stories this summer of families in Italy struggling in the heat! Not us! We cannot afford those trips.

+1

My preferred schedule would be a 6 week summer and two weeks between each quarter and a 3/4 day weekend in the middle of the quarter.

+1
I would love that schedule too. HS kids could still be lifeguards and camp counselors full time during the break. They could do evening and weekend shifts when school is in session. In reality, most HS kids only work 6 weeks during the 9 week summer anyway... with travel, sports, etc. Most "teen-hiring' companies easily find ways to deal with different schedules. (HS teacher and parent of 9th and 12th grader here.)

+1 I would LOVE to see the 6-7 week summer with 2 week breaks in between each quarter. If wishes were horses...

Same. I also think it would help families struggling to pay for camps. Paying for 12 weeks of camp at once really is a burden. I don't like vacationing in the summer and would like 2 weeks pretty much any other time of the year (not Christmas, I don't travel on Christmas).

Also, yeah, my kids like spending holidays in school. Halloween was always a fun one, so was veterans day (they'd have a parade) and presidents day. I don't get why school is closed on bank holidays?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the highest positive response was for ONE week before labor day and none of the next three years has that.

We’re also not seeing what they voted for for the end of the year, which impacts the start of the year. In recent surveys most families wanted a later start and an earlier end, which is not exactly feasible.

Sure it is. We’ve explained how so many times. An easy way to cut days off the end is to get rid of all of the teacher workdays and PD days. Have school on Veteran’s Day, with an assembly, once again and have school the day before Thanksgiving. That’s at least a week if not more right there. -teacher

Wouldn’t that reduce the contract length and thus also salary?

No cause they would be school days.

It would still shorten the teacher contract unless you are adding 8 school student days or moving the PD days to before or after the school year starts/ends.

How would it shorten teacher contract? The 195 days includes TWD. If you make a PD a student day they are still working.

Because if you change TWDs to student days to shorten the SY it’s going to shorten the total contract days unless you add TWDs somewhere else.

195 contract days
Let’s say 8 of those are TWD during the school year. If you change those to student days to shorten the SY by 8 days that reduces the contract days by 8.

No it doesn’t because teachers are still working on the student days. They will still be working 195 days, regardless if it’s a student day or a TWD.

No. Think about it.

Teachers typically have about 5 before the SY starts and 2 after it ends. If you swap the other TWDs during the SY for student days then students would have to attend 188 days to maintain 195 contract days.

Sorry, you aren’t making sense. The contract is for teachers. Not the students. As long as the teachers work 195 days it doesn’t matter.

Ok, but those TWDs will have to be moved to before or after the SY.

This isn’t that hard. There are 195 Teacher Days and 180 student days. Currently, Columbus Day is a TWD. So whether students are there or not, it won’t affect the number days a teacher works. We should eliminate some of the extra work days. We don’t need all of them.