University of Mary Washington- What Am I Missing?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We had an experience similar to yours when we visited. Prior to this, I didn’t know much about Mary Washington and my daughter and I were both pleasantly surprised.I too don’t get why it flies under the radar.

Maybe because it's ranked 149th among Liberal Arts Colleges by USNWR? I didn't even know there were that many LACs.

The point is why does it rank 149th? The school seems to have a lot going for it. That’s the mystery.

Other than academics. It has an 80% acceptance rate and is thought of as a safety for kids trying to get into JMU or VCU. Part of what makes SLACs good is the student body and Mary Washington isn't selective enough.

No way. VCU is far below UMW. It's a school for druggie artist wannabees.

What do you think UMW is? It's basically open enrollment and still can't get numbers it wants

Nah. That’s not accurate. UMW attracts and enrolls good students. It’s self-selecting.

Its enrollment is shrinking and not by choice

The pandemic cratered enrollment at every single college and university in the country. Radford University lost 35% of its enrollment for two years. This is not a reflection on the school but a reflection of the pandemic. You'd know this if you worked in higher education. But you don't, so you spout off BS like this instead.

UVA, VT, W&M, JMU and GMU all had higher freshmen enrollments in 2022-23 than 2018-19. UMW shrank

Let the numbers speak for themselves -- just select the relevant fields in SCHEV to do the comparisons. It shows that overall applications to UMW (not just enrollment) this year are down considerably from 2018 and that's NOT the case for UVA, VT, W&M and JMU -- some major increases there. Why this is, I don't know, although perhaps test optional has caused some students to focus on the more selective schools. CNU appears to have remained more or less static apart from a one-year dip.

https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B8_Report_new.asp

Huh? CNU had 1231 in its freshman class in 2018 and now has 1169. 10% dip is a lot of absorb for an institution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the George Costanza-type guy who thinks his odds are doubled at a school that has 65% females: it doesn’t work that way.

The students are all aware of the male:female ratio when they apply. Female students at a school with 65% females are not there to go man huntin’. They likely have a boyfriend elsewhere or are focused on academics or something else. If they were especially eager for casual romps with average guys, they wouldn’t be there.

So, ironically, it’s often the schools with 65% guys where an average guy might have success, because the females there definitely knew the ratio when they applied, and they apparently liked those odds.

I went there in the late 80s. The male/female ratio wasn't quite as dramatically skewed as it is now (maybe more like 60/40), but I had no trouble dating guys (I'm a woman). Plenty of "casual romps" and more serious boyfriends. I think you're making a lot of assumptions about the types of people who choose to go there.

[Anonymous]

^^ shouldn't be

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We had an experience similar to yours when we visited. Prior to this, I didn’t know much about Mary Washington and my daughter and I were both pleasantly surprised.I too don’t get why it flies under the radar.

Maybe because it's ranked 149th among Liberal Arts Colleges by USNWR? I didn't even know there were that many LACs.

The point is why does it rank 149th? The school seems to have a lot going for it. That’s the mystery.

Other than academics. It has an 80% acceptance rate and is thought of as a safety for kids trying to get into JMU or VCU. Part of what makes SLACs good is the student body and Mary Washington isn't selective enough.

No way. VCU is far below UMW. It's a school for druggie artist wannabees.

What do you think UMW is? It's basically open enrollment and still can't get numbers it wants

Nah. That’s not accurate. UMW attracts and enrolls good students. It’s self-selecting.

Its enrollment is shrinking and not by choice

The pandemic cratered enrollment at every single college and university in the country. Radford University lost 35% of its enrollment for two years. This is not a reflection on the school but a reflection of the pandemic. You'd know this if you worked in higher education. But you don't, so you spout off BS like this instead.

UVA, VT, W&M, JMU and GMU all had higher freshmen enrollments in 2022-23 than 2018-19. UMW shrank

Let the numbers speak for themselves -- just select the relevant fields in SCHEV to do the comparisons. It shows that overall applications to UMW (not just enrollment) this year are down considerably from 2018 and that's NOT the case for UVA, VT, W&M and JMU -- some major increases there. Why this is, I don't know, although perhaps test optional has caused some students to focus on the more selective schools. CNU appears to have remained more or less static apart from a one-year dip.

https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B8_Report_new.asp

It's not just applications, enrollment grew at the other schools and shrank and UMW. In 2018-19 the rejected almost 1/3 of applicants in 2022-23, they had a 15.7% rejection rate. A school that gets fewer applications, accepts a higher percentage of them and is still shrinking is not healthy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we really debatig if a school with a 20% acceptance rate and a data set of 4.0+/1500 SATs is full of nerds? What else would it be? That's not the profile of the cool kids. That's the profile of the TJ nerds.

The same school is full of supremely talented athletes and has a thriving Greek life that naysayers love putting down. It’s not a nerd school in the slightest, but unless you’re enough of a standout athlete or student to get accepted yourself you’re not going to have the opportunity to see that for yourself.

Good grief - could you possibly start YOUR OWN thread about your stupid school that no one here cares about? Why do you hijack every.single.thread?
DP

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Because it used to be a women’s college and so is less strong on the athletic teams. I don’t get it either. It’s beautiful and the faculty we met were awesome. Great job placement. Good financial aid.

+1

JMU used to be a woman’s college too, but it became very popular soon after becoming co-ed.

It has a male name. Mystery solved.

+1
It's too bad, but this is the issue. The female name leads many to believe it's a women's college. I went there and there were always some who were surprised when I said it was coed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We recently took our DS on tours of UVA, VT, Radford, JMU, and UMW.

UMW was our favorite hands down. Beautiful campus, more than enough offerings- no Greek scene (son isn't a partier), ridiculously affordable and small enough to not get lost. All the others minus Radford just seemed so huge and overwhelming. I get that the academics might be stronger at UVA and Tech, but not if you're a middle of the road undecided student.

Why isn't UMW more popular?

It's pretty far behind JMU academically too. Is it less popular than Radford?

JMU was our least favorite by a long shot and he'd be accepted there. The dorms were garbage with old AC window units. The tour didn't include the library or any academic buildings. Mostly the time was spent talking about inclusion, I kid you not. I will say the dining hall food was good and that matters to him.

What’s wrong with talking about inclusion? That sounds like a good thing!

My DD’s impression was that everyone at JMU carried themselves with an air of resignation that they were at a second-choice school.

That said it’s undergrad-oriented which is a great thing.

Yea that’s your daughter’s baggage for sure. She’s gonna be supremely disappointed when she doesn’t get into her first choice.

+100
These arrogant, clueless posts are always so telling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We recently took our DS on tours of UVA, VT, Radford, JMU, and UMW.

UMW was our favorite hands down. Beautiful campus, more than enough offerings- no Greek scene (son isn't a partier), ridiculously affordable and small enough to not get lost. All the others minus Radford just seemed so huge and overwhelming. I get that the academics might be stronger at UVA and Tech, but not if you're a middle of the road undecided student.

Why isn't UMW more popular?

I can't figure it out either.

I took two of my kids to see it, and both loved it. DD wanted to go there, but got more money from another school, so went there. But it was a very appealing school from all angles. The campus is beautiful, and it's right in Fredricksburg, so not quite suburban, but not urban either.

I was very impressed by the school.

Both my DD and DS liked UMW more than CNU or JMU. They ended up getting into their first choice schools, but UMW was both their preferred safety. My son did bristle a little at the Mary in UMW (though of course my DD could care less about the "Christopher" in CNU or the "James" in JMU or the "George" in GMU) but it didn't stop him from choosing UMW over CNU or JMU as his safety option.

Did you point that sexist reaction out to your son? Sad to see the patriarchy is still so firmly entrenched in today's young men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a nice school, and I think it could be a great option, depending on what you want to study. It doesn't have an engineering program, and its offerings/opportunities in the hard sciences/math seemed less comprehensive than some of the larger universities. I think I would have enjoyed going there (I knew I wanted to be an attorney and wanted a smaller school). It was not the right fit for DD (wants to major in CS with a math minor).

I went there and also became an attorney. UMW was a great undergrad education with plenty of writing that prepared me well for a career in law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We recently took our DS on tours of UVA, VT, Radford, JMU, and UMW.

UMW was our favorite hands down. Beautiful campus, more than enough offerings- no Greek scene (son isn't a partier), ridiculously affordable and small enough to not get lost. All the others minus Radford just seemed so huge and overwhelming. I get that the academics might be stronger at UVA and Tech, but not if you're a middle of the road undecided student.

Why isn't UMW more popular?

I can't figure it out either.

I took two of my kids to see it, and both loved it. DD wanted to go there, but got more money from another school, so went there. But it was a very appealing school from all angles. The campus is beautiful, and it's right in Fredricksburg, so not quite suburban, but not urban either.

I was very impressed by the school.

Both my DD and DS liked UMW more than CNU or JMU. They ended up getting into their first choice schools, but UMW was both their preferred safety. My son did bristle a little at the Mary in UMW (though of course my DD could care less about the "Christopher" in CNU or the "James" in JMU or the "George" in GMU) but it didn't stop him from choosing UMW over CNU or JMU as his safety option.

Did you point that sexist reaction out to your son? Sad to see the patriarchy is still so firmly entrenched in today's young men.

Yep, we talked about it--which I think influenced his willingness to put UMW as his preferred safety. I think he personally didn't care about it, but pictured how others would react. 17 year old boys are not that mature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

I'm glad you liked it! My DD just finished her first year there. It has been a good fit for her. To answer your question about why it isn't more popular... I have a few ideas. In fact, they recently sent out a survey to parents, students, and alumnae to ask what the pros and cons were and what the image is, etc.

Here's my take.
(1) as a small school, it doesn't have the "big-U"-rah-rah sports image/marketing. They do have teams and the teams do well (soccer, basketball, volleyball, and clubs for rugby and others). But, if you as a parent went to a big-state-U type of school, you might steer your kid toward that dynamic.
(2) this is a big one: I really think the name "MARY..." turns off young men in the 17-18 yr old range. Honestly, I told them to LEAN INTO marketting themselves as "UMW" and minimize the "Mary" part. Yes, I'm a feminist, but in marketing, they need to look at who their audience is, and how the audience perceives them. Most male teens are not going to want to tell their friends they are going to "MARY..." Guys are going to want to tell their friends they are going to "Christopher Newport" or "Radford" before they want to say they are going to "Mary... U."

I know the alumni would have a fit if they changed the name altogether. But, I think in the service of staying relevant and solvent, they should seriously consider renaming themselves to "UVA-Fredericksburg" or "Univ. of Central Virginia" or something else. Even using JUST "UMW" would be a start.

3. They DO have a computer science degree... and that's CRUCIAL for attracting guys. They need to AMP UP the connections for that degree (i.e. internships, etc.)

That said, their biology dept. is very strong. My DD is in that dept. They have so many great international opportunities. It IS a lot easier to get to know your advisor and professors, and they do have research opportunities. If you want to apply to medical, dental or law school, or really any grad program later, having professors who actually KNOW you is going to make a huge difference in the quality of the recommendation letters they can write on your behalf.

My DD likes the size of the campus. She likes the food. She likes the size of the classes. The campus is pretty, and it's easy to get involved in clubs/activities. It is a campus that is accepting of diversity without the typical "toxic masculinity" that you see at "big-state-U." They students are just good people.

If you are confident enough to do your own thing and not follow the pressure of the crowd that says "you must go to X, Y, or Z college" then you can have a very good experience at UMW. If you need Greek life or football Saturdays -- then this isn't going to be a good fit.

I find it incredibly offensive that men won't attend a school named after a woman but we have attended schools named after them for centuries. Talk about inequality and not taking half the human race seriously. Where have parents gone wrong that a young man born in the 2000's has not gotten past that mindset? It really stuns me to hear this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

I'm glad you liked it! My DD just finished her first year there. It has been a good fit for her. To answer your question about why it isn't more popular... I have a few ideas. In fact, they recently sent out a survey to parents, students, and alumnae to ask what the pros and cons were and what the image is, etc.

Here's my take.
(1) as a small school, it doesn't have the "big-U"-rah-rah sports image/marketing. They do have teams and the teams do well (soccer, basketball, volleyball, and clubs for rugby and others). But, if you as a parent went to a big-state-U type of school, you might steer your kid toward that dynamic.
(2) this is a big one: I really think the name "MARY..." turns off young men in the 17-18 yr old range. Honestly, I told them to LEAN INTO marketting themselves as "UMW" and minimize the "Mary" part. Yes, I'm a feminist, but in marketing, they need to look at who their audience is, and how the audience perceives them. Most male teens are not going to want to tell their friends they are going to "MARY..." Guys are going to want to tell their friends they are going to "Christopher Newport" or "Radford" before they want to say they are going to "Mary... U."

I know the alumni would have a fit if they changed the name altogether. But, I think in the service of staying relevant and solvent, they should seriously consider renaming themselves to "UVA-Fredericksburg" or "Univ. of Central Virginia" or something else. Even using JUST "UMW" would be a start.

3. They DO have a computer science degree... and that's CRUCIAL for attracting guys. They need to AMP UP the connections for that degree (i.e. internships, etc.)

That said, their biology dept. is very strong. My DD is in that dept. They have so many great international opportunities. It IS a lot easier to get to know your advisor and professors, and they do have research opportunities. If you want to apply to medical, dental or law school, or really any grad program later, having professors who actually KNOW you is going to make a huge difference in the quality of the recommendation letters they can write on your behalf.

My DD likes the size of the campus. She likes the food. She likes the size of the classes. The campus is pretty, and it's easy to get involved in clubs/activities. It is a campus that is accepting of diversity without the typical "toxic masculinity" that you see at "big-state-U." They students are just good people.

If you are confident enough to do your own thing and not follow the pressure of the crowd that says "you must go to X, Y, or Z college" then you can have a very good experience at UMW. If you need Greek life or football Saturdays -- then this isn't going to be a good fit.

I find it incredibly offensive that men won't attend a school named after a woman but we have attended schools named after them for centuries. Talk about inequality and not taking half the human race seriously. Where have parents gone wrong that a young man born in the 2000's has not gotten past that mindset? It really stuns me to hear this.

It's pretty exhausting but it doesn't stun me at all. I know so many men, including young men, who still have weird hang ups associated with what feel like incredibly outdated ideas about gender. Here are some things men I know have been reluctant to do because they associate it with women (every single one of these men is a liberal voter who support abortion rights, equal pay, say they want egalitarian marriages, etc.):

- Dust, mop, and vacuum
- Exfoliate their skin
- Dance
- Watch romantic comedies
- Read books written by and about women
- Say the words "period" or "uterus" out loud
- Drink wine
- Attend a co-ed baby shower
- Shop for (men's!) shoes

And so on. Toxic masculinity is alive and kicking and, honestly, resurgent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had an experience similar to yours when we visited. Prior to this, I didn’t know much about Mary Washington and my daughter and I were both pleasantly surprised.I too don’t get why it flies under the radar.

Maybe because it's ranked 149th among Liberal Arts Colleges by USNWR? I didn't even know there were that many LACs.

The point is why does it rank 149th? The school seems to have a lot going for it. That’s the mystery.

Other than academics. It has an 80% acceptance rate and is thought of as a safety for kids trying to get into JMU or VCU. Part of what makes SLACs good is the student body and Mary Washington isn't selective enough.

No way. VCU is far below UMW. It's a school for druggie artist wannabees.

What do you think UMW is? It's basically open enrollment and still can't get numbers it wants

Nah. That’s not accurate. UMW attracts and enrolls good students. It’s self-selecting.

Its enrollment is shrinking and not by choice

No it's not. Its had growing enrollment for 5 straight years.

I think UMW is a great school for the right student, but its freshmen enrollment has declined from 936 in fall 2018 to 766 in fall 2022.

https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B8_Report_new.asp

It's the pandemic, stupid.

PP was responding to a factual claim that UMW was growing enrollment for 5 years--when it's admitted a smaller class for 5 years. It's worrisome--there's been articles written about this--and its potential to worsen with demographic shifts. The more selective schools (UVA/WM/VT) have increased their enrollment (along with record applications) but some of the other VA publics are declining in freshman enrollment: CNU, VCU, UMW, Radford.

GMU, JMU, ODU, and Norfolk State seem to be keeping up enrollment though.

As more applicants are seeking computer science degrees to the exclusion of all the humanities, colleges and universities that offer computer science have drawn students away from schools that offer more humanities. UMW now has a computer science degree... but I think it's a combination of the "feminine name/image" on the college, as well as being slower to get with the com sci degree program that has led to fewer students.

I still love UMW and wish more people would give it the credit it deserves. All the football games and greek parties in the world don't matter as much as having one or more professors who actually know your name, and will do anything to boost your career options. I went to three big-state-U's where I had season tix to football games, and I was in a sorority as well. Before my DD and I went to visit UMW, I was doubtful that I would find much to like about a "small potatoes" version of college. But, we were super surprised... and it was the only school DD wanted to attend. It's a good fit for her, and I know it would be good for many others. But people have a certain "vision" of the big-Rah-Rah-U type of college experience and they dismiss the smaller schools === and the final nail in the coffin (decision) is the "Mary" name. They need to get rid of that for branding purposes. They really do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

I'm glad you liked it! My DD just finished her first year there. It has been a good fit for her. To answer your question about why it isn't more popular... I have a few ideas. In fact, they recently sent out a survey to parents, students, and alumnae to ask what the pros and cons were and what the image is, etc.

Here's my take.
(1) as a small school, it doesn't have the "big-U"-rah-rah sports image/marketing. They do have teams and the teams do well (soccer, basketball, volleyball, and clubs for rugby and others). But, if you as a parent went to a big-state-U type of school, you might steer your kid toward that dynamic.
(2) this is a big one: I really think the name "MARY..." turns off young men in the 17-18 yr old range. Honestly, I told them to LEAN INTO marketting themselves as "UMW" and minimize the "Mary" part. Yes, I'm a feminist, but in marketing, they need to look at who their audience is, and how the audience perceives them. Most male teens are not going to want to tell their friends they are going to "MARY..." Guys are going to want to tell their friends they are going to "Christopher Newport" or "Radford" before they want to say they are going to "Mary... U."

I know the alumni would have a fit if they changed the name altogether. But, I think in the service of staying relevant and solvent, they should seriously consider renaming themselves to "UVA-Fredericksburg" or "Univ. of Central Virginia" or something else. Even using JUST "UMW" would be a start.

3. They DO have a computer science degree... and that's CRUCIAL for attracting guys. They need to AMP UP the connections for that degree (i.e. internships, etc.)

That said, their biology dept. is very strong. My DD is in that dept. They have so many great international opportunities. It IS a lot easier to get to know your advisor and professors, and they do have research opportunities. If you want to apply to medical, dental or law school, or really any grad program later, having professors who actually KNOW you is going to make a huge difference in the quality of the recommendation letters they can write on your behalf.

My DD likes the size of the campus. She likes the food. She likes the size of the classes. The campus is pretty, and it's easy to get involved in clubs/activities. It is a campus that is accepting of diversity without the typical "toxic masculinity" that you see at "big-state-U." They students are just good people.

If you are confident enough to do your own thing and not follow the pressure of the crowd that says "you must go to X, Y, or Z college" then you can have a very good experience at UMW. If you need Greek life or football Saturdays -- then this isn't going to be a good fit.

I find it incredibly offensive that men won't attend a school named after a woman but we have attended schools named after them for centuries. Talk about inequality and not taking half the human race seriously. Where have parents gone wrong that a young man born in the 2000's has not gotten past that mindset? It really stuns me to hear this.

There are MANY subtle messages still in the environment every day. You would be mistaken to think that equality of the sexes was achieved in the 70s. I am old enough to remember when Janet Reno became the AG. I hadn't ever thought about it before, but it really had an impact on me to see a WOMAN take that position for the first time. We SAY "girl power" all the time, but until girls SEE women in power, it doesn't really resonate.

As for boys and the "Mary" name -- I mean, look... we're talking about 17 and 18 yr old guys. They are entering their peak years of defining and being the most "masculine" that they will be for their whole lives. I can't expect them to be so evolved. Sure, some boys are fine with it. But, if you are in charge of marketing a college to teen boys, you might find out that they do not feel strong and proud about a "Mary" in their college.

Deal with the world as it is, not as you wish it to be!... that's what the marketing people need to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

I'm glad you liked it! My DD just finished her first year there. It has been a good fit for her. To answer your question about why it isn't more popular... I have a few ideas. In fact, they recently sent out a survey to parents, students, and alumnae to ask what the pros and cons were and what the image is, etc.

Here's my take.
(1) as a small school, it doesn't have the "big-U"-rah-rah sports image/marketing. They do have teams and the teams do well (soccer, basketball, volleyball, and clubs for rugby and others). But, if you as a parent went to a big-state-U type of school, you might steer your kid toward that dynamic.
(2) this is a big one: I really think the name "MARY..." turns off young men in the 17-18 yr old range. Honestly, I told them to LEAN INTO marketting themselves as "UMW" and minimize the "Mary" part. Yes, I'm a feminist, but in marketing, they need to look at who their audience is, and how the audience perceives them. Most male teens are not going to want to tell their friends they are going to "MARY..." Guys are going to want to tell their friends they are going to "Christopher Newport" or "Radford" before they want to say they are going to "Mary... U."

I know the alumni would have a fit if they changed the name altogether. But, I think in the service of staying relevant and solvent, they should seriously consider renaming themselves to "UVA-Fredericksburg" or "Univ. of Central Virginia" or something else. Even using JUST "UMW" would be a start.

3. They DO have a computer science degree... and that's CRUCIAL for attracting guys. They need to AMP UP the connections for that degree (i.e. internships, etc.)

That said, their biology dept. is very strong. My DD is in that dept. They have so many great international opportunities. It IS a lot easier to get to know your advisor and professors, and they do have research opportunities. If you want to apply to medical, dental or law school, or really any grad program later, having professors who actually KNOW you is going to make a huge difference in the quality of the recommendation letters they can write on your behalf.

My DD likes the size of the campus. She likes the food. She likes the size of the classes. The campus is pretty, and it's easy to get involved in clubs/activities. It is a campus that is accepting of diversity without the typical "toxic masculinity" that you see at "big-state-U." They students are just good people.

If you are confident enough to do your own thing and not follow the pressure of the crowd that says "you must go to X, Y, or Z college" then you can have a very good experience at UMW. If you need Greek life or football Saturdays -- then this isn't going to be a good fit.

I find it incredibly offensive that men won't attend a school named after a woman but we have attended schools named after them for centuries. Talk about inequality and not taking half the human race seriously. Where have parents gone wrong that a young man born in the 2000's has not gotten past that mindset? It really stuns me to hear this.

There are MANY subtle messages still in the environment every day. You would be mistaken to think that equality of the sexes was achieved in the 70s. I am old enough to remember when Janet Reno became the AG. I hadn't ever thought about it before, but it really had an impact on me to see a WOMAN take that position for the first time. We SAY "girl power" all the time, but until girls SEE women in power, it doesn't really resonate.

As for boys and the "Mary" name -- I mean, look... we're talking about 17 and 18 yr old guys. They are entering their peak years of defining and being the most "masculine" that they will be for their whole lives. I can't expect them to be so evolved. Sure, some boys are fine with it. But, if you are in charge of marketing a college to teen boys, you might find out that they do not feel strong and proud about a "Mary" in their college.

Deal with the world as it is, not as you wish it to be!... that's what the marketing people need to do.

+1
I'm a UMW alum and was asked in a survey what I would suggest to market the school more effectively. I responded that they HAVE to show more young men in their marketing material. Everything I was getting from them, for years, made it look like it was an all-women's college. I think they have started featuring more men - after all, they have great men's sports, so they need to sell that.