Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because she could have left to get the abortion. Because people raised money for the family to do so. Because they chose not to.
That wasn’t in this article.
It was in previous articles. Sorry your sources are poor reporters of the truth
1. The couple worried they could be arrested if they sought an out of state abortion and voiced concern about ensuring they could be there for their existing child
2. How sad of a world we are in that a woman would have to travel out of state for ethically appropriate healthcare
+1
It also puts the healthcare of women in the remaining free states at risk. There aren’t that many obstetricians to go around.
Anyone traveling to a state where abortion is still legal needs to show their voting record. If they voted GOP, nope, no taking services. You bought the ticket, you take the ride.
On the other hand, if this woman’s family starts voting for pro life candidates, that could be a lot of people changing sides. Milo’s parents, her parents, her 6 siblings, their spouses. That’s almost 20 people without getting into extended family, church, or friends. This is how change happens. Unfortunately because of republicans, a lot of babies are going to have to die, families will go into debt to pay for hospital bills that shouldn’t have been needed, some women will lose their fertility and lives along the way, and it’s going to break families apart with the stress of dying children, debt, and grief. But they will have won for a little while.
It may cause some people to change sides, but I doubt it. I have many prolifers in my own family who would stare down this kind of suffering, explain it away as God’s plan and good for them leaving open the possibility for a miracle, and then go right on back to the same crap way of voting. They don’t want to hear that they forced avoidable suffering on their loved ones. They don’t want to take accountability for they’ve done and what they supported.
They are all just “innocent Germans” who only cared about the economy.
Omg yes, this. I know all the same people, sadly.
Unfortunately. Abortion is also a violent procedure
A late term abortion involves injecting potassium
chloride into the heart to stop it That's it. That's violent vs watching the child gasp for air?
Sadly, palliative care for a newborn infant is still lacking in terms of knowledge among providers amd actual research for how best to apply it. It happens, but isn't so common to deal with a sudden infant death that is occurring within hours of birth. Research will improve given new laws that will require it more frequently, but undoubtedly, healthcare isn't as good as this as you might think for a newborn, let alone a newborn dying within 99 minutes requiring an IV and VERY quickly sorting out titrating up medication dosages.
Mother still has to deliver. Traumatic either way, no?
My staunchly conservative brother and sister in law were anti abortion till they found themselves in a very similar situation to this woman with a fatal diagnosis. My sister in law chose the potassium chloride and D&E route.
Please slap them the next time you see them and tell them they are hypocrites. People like this deserve to be slapped - I've cut off evil family members who do this sh-- and I hold them accountable for supporting evil.
I posted this and no, I will not. Do you do this with your conservative family members? Having honest conversations leads to progress. Shutting them leads nowhere.
Honestly, sometimes they need to be confronted with the same bilious invective they would have happily spewed on someone else back when they thought they’d be immune from consequences. Or at least a reminder they are fortunate to have had supportive family members that understood that these things are awful tragedies and you are choosing the best and humane course out of bad options.
Otherwise- these people are just coming away with the same “my abortion is a moral abortion” takeaway that leads them to restrict rights for others and results in less connected or wealthy women getting killed.
Honestly, there's a reason that no one talks to you IRL and that all of your friends and family have dropped you and don't respond to you.
Nice chat, but I generally don’t befriend fascists. If they dropped me I never noticed, my calendar is full.
Good on you, though. They love to kill people and relish in their “pro life” moral authority, knowing “libs” like you will have their back when it’s their lives on the line and will be quiet and discreet while they go right back to voting to kill other people.
I'm a liberal and I hate that kind of "cut you off and then smack you rub your face in it when I'm right" sh*t. Why? IT DOES NOT HELP, IT HURTS. I say this as a liberal with very conservative family members. They actually listen to me when I talk respectfully and point out concerns with their POV on certain topics. I have friends who talk that way of "just cut them off" and Every. Single. One. Of. Them. Lives in a sealed bubble of only people who think like them and makes it so easy to say this stuff. If you want to actually win the war you need to UNDERSTAND and directly address the other point of view to address it. Repeatedly. Over and over. That is a smart war tactic.
Hon, they listen to you respectfully and then they do what they want. Tell yourself what you need to tell yourself, but some people JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND until they experience it, and even then, they lack the self awareness to process how things would have been much worse for themselves if they got the treatment they wanted others to get.
They are trying to persuade you too. They most likely think they have God on their side. They are testing out their taking points on you. I’ve seen their literature- don’t be fooled into thinking you are making a difference.
Rubbing their faces in it might be the only thing that can work. God knows we’ve tried everything else in the past 50 years. Sad, but I’d rather rub their faces in their own tragedies than mine or an innocent’s.
Again, if you don't engage in conversation, you never win. I don't rub anyone's face in anything. I especially wouldn't do that w/ a conservative as that would certainly confirm their preconceived notions about liberal smugness. And FWIW, my conservative family members aren't all religious, so Christian beliefs aren't the reason all conservatives have certain stances. You might learn that if you talked to some of them. I know atheists who are anti-abortion without restrictions.
I know plenty of so-called “libertarian” atheist men who are happy to use abortion as a tool to control women because they are insecure in their masculinity or afraid a one night stand is going to reject their seed or something. I’ve met all sorts of forced birthers. I don’t really care their reasons, they don’t matter. They didn’t logic themselves into the box and I’m not going to logic them out. It may be helpful to get new talking points that may make it through the less thick of the skulls, but learned experience is what gets us out of this box we are in now.
Did you think we got Roe because women changed hearts and minds? No, we got Roe because enough middle class white men had enough middle class white women close to them die that they had a real problem on their hands. Dead wives, abandoned children, dead law clerks leaving a caseload. It appears we are going to have to go down the same road again because we learned nothing in the last 50 years. And I will be happy to “educate” the monsters who forced it to happen.
I'm pro choice, but you are way extreme in your views. People should disown their entire families of they have conservative family members? That's.... Not realistic nor helpful.
NP. I think you should read again what that poster write. She didn’t mention disowning conservative family members. The poster said she would educate the monsters who experienced the negative results of what they supported.
It's not necessary to educate them because they now have the same opinion. The PP is more about that not being hood enough, rub it in their face about their desired, but lost, child, per some other posts that were deleted.
In general even *many* conservatives are for abortion that is medically necessary, but unfortunately the extreme no exception types are dominating state law. It's telling that most conservative states are not putting it to a vote as they know how their predominantly conservative populations would vote as was already done in other states that did enact referendums.
Most conservatives also support stronger gun laws, but there too, the extremists are dominating politics. Why is that?
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because she could have left to get the abortion. Because people raised money for the family to do so. Because they chose not to.
That wasn’t in this article.
It was in previous articles. Sorry your sources are poor reporters of the truth
1. The couple worried they could be arrested if they sought an out of state abortion and voiced concern about ensuring they could be there for their existing child
2. How sad of a world we are in that a woman would have to travel out of state for ethically appropriate healthcare
+1
It also puts the healthcare of women in the remaining free states at risk. There aren’t that many obstetricians to go around.
Anyone traveling to a state where abortion is still legal needs to show their voting record. If they voted GOP, nope, no taking services. You bought the ticket, you take the ride.
On the other hand, if this woman’s family starts voting for pro life candidates, that could be a lot of people changing sides. Milo’s parents, her parents, her 6 siblings, their spouses. That’s almost 20 people without getting into extended family, church, or friends. This is how change happens. Unfortunately because of republicans, a lot of babies are going to have to die, families will go into debt to pay for hospital bills that shouldn’t have been needed, some women will lose their fertility and lives along the way, and it’s going to break families apart with the stress of dying children, debt, and grief. But they will have won for a little while.
It may cause some people to change sides, but I doubt it. I have many prolifers in my own family who would stare down this kind of suffering, explain it away as God’s plan and good for them leaving open the possibility for a miracle, and then go right on back to the same crap way of voting. They don’t want to hear that they forced avoidable suffering on their loved ones. They don’t want to take accountability for they’ve done and what they supported.
They are all just “innocent Germans” who only cared about the economy.
Omg yes, this. I know all the same people, sadly.
Unfortunately. Abortion is also a violent procedure
A late term abortion involves injecting potassium
chloride into the heart to stop it That's it. That's violent vs watching the child gasp for air?
Sadly, palliative care for a newborn infant is still lacking in terms of knowledge among providers amd actual research for how best to apply it. It happens, but isn't so common to deal with a sudden infant death that is occurring within hours of birth. Research will improve given new laws that will require it more frequently, but undoubtedly, healthcare isn't as good as this as you might think for a newborn, let alone a newborn dying within 99 minutes requiring an IV and VERY quickly sorting out titrating up medication dosages.
Mother still has to deliver. Traumatic either way, no?
My staunchly conservative brother and sister in law were anti abortion till they found themselves in a very similar situation to this woman with a fatal diagnosis. My sister in law chose the potassium chloride and D&E route.
Please slap them the next time you see them and tell them they are hypocrites. People like this deserve to be slapped - I've cut off evil family members who do this sh-- and I hold them accountable for supporting evil.
I posted this and no, I will not. Do you do this with your conservative family members? Having honest conversations leads to progress. Shutting them leads nowhere.
Honestly, sometimes they need to be confronted with the same bilious invective they would have happily spewed on someone else back when they thought they’d be immune from consequences. Or at least a reminder they are fortunate to have had supportive family members that understood that these things are awful tragedies and you are choosing the best and humane course out of bad options.
Otherwise- these people are just coming away with the same “my abortion is a moral abortion” takeaway that leads them to restrict rights for others and results in less connected or wealthy women getting killed.
Honestly, there's a reason that no one talks to you IRL and that all of your friends and family have dropped you and don't respond to you.
Nice chat, but I generally don’t befriend fascists. If they dropped me I never noticed, my calendar is full.
Good on you, though. They love to kill people and relish in their “pro life” moral authority, knowing “libs” like you will have their back when it’s their lives on the line and will be quiet and discreet while they go right back to voting to kill other people.
I'm a liberal and I hate that kind of "cut you off and then smack you rub your face in it when I'm right" sh*t. Why? IT DOES NOT HELP, IT HURTS. I say this as a liberal with very conservative family members. They actually listen to me when I talk respectfully and point out concerns with their POV on certain topics. I have friends who talk that way of "just cut them off" and Every. Single. One. Of. Them. Lives in a sealed bubble of only people who think like them and makes it so easy to say this stuff. If you want to actually win the war you need to UNDERSTAND and directly address the other point of view to address it. Repeatedly. Over and over. That is a smart war tactic.
Hon, they listen to you respectfully and then they do what they want. Tell yourself what you need to tell yourself, but some people JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND until they experience it, and even then, they lack the self awareness to process how things would have been much worse for themselves if they got the treatment they wanted others to get.
They are trying to persuade you too. They most likely think they have God on their side. They are testing out their taking points on you. I’ve seen their literature- don’t be fooled into thinking you are making a difference.
Rubbing their faces in it might be the only thing that can work. God knows we’ve tried everything else in the past 50 years. Sad, but I’d rather rub their faces in their own tragedies than mine or an innocent’s.
Again, if you don't engage in conversation, you never win. I don't rub anyone's face in anything. I especially wouldn't do that w/ a conservative as that would certainly confirm their preconceived notions about liberal smugness. And FWIW, my conservative family members aren't all religious, so Christian beliefs aren't the reason all conservatives have certain stances. You might learn that if you talked to some of them. I know atheists who are anti-abortion without restrictions.
I know plenty of so-called “libertarian” atheist men who are happy to use abortion as a tool to control women because they are insecure in their masculinity or afraid a one night stand is going to reject their seed or something. I’ve met all sorts of forced birthers. I don’t really care their reasons, they don’t matter. They didn’t logic themselves into the box and I’m not going to logic them out. It may be helpful to get new talking points that may make it through the less thick of the skulls, but learned experience is what gets us out of this box we are in now.
Did you think we got Roe because women changed hearts and minds? No, we got Roe because enough middle class white men had enough middle class white women close to them die that they had a real problem on their hands. Dead wives, abandoned children, dead law clerks leaving a caseload. It appears we are going to have to go down the same road again because we learned nothing in the last 50 years. And I will be happy to “educate” the monsters who forced it to happen.
I'm pro choice, but you are way extreme in your views. People should disown their entire families of they have conservative family members? That's.... Not realistic nor helpful.
NP. I think you should read again what that poster write. She didn’t mention disowning conservative family members. The poster said she would educate the monsters who experienced the negative results of what they supported.
It's not necessary to educate them because they now have the same opinion. The PP is more about that not being hood enough, rub it in their face about their desired, but lost, child, per some other posts that were deleted.
In general even *many* conservatives are for abortion that is medically necessary, but unfortunately the extreme no exception types are dominating state law. It's telling that most conservative states are not putting it to a vote as they know how their predominantly conservative populations would vote as was already done in other states that did enact referendums.
NP. I don’t care that they kind of support abortion. They voted for the politicians who promised to overturn Roe. They supported restrictions to varying degrees without considering the consequences. They deserve to have their faces rubbed in it. I hope people point out that their votes, their support of overly conservative politicians got them to the place where their daughter had to file for bankruptcy and then divorced from the stress of losing a child and financial struggles after she wasn’t allowed to terminate her nonviable pregnancy. I hope they have PTSD from watching her almost die, and I hope they realize they did this to themselves. Same as how I hope the people who vote for NRA owned candidates struggle daily with the grief of knowing they could’ve voted differently and maybe saved their kids from gun violence. I hope the knowledge that they helped create that situation is as painful as the losses they suffer. They deserve that. Being polite and giving them grace hasn’t helped. They’re certainly not giving politeness and grace to trans kids, trans adults, people needing food assistance, people seeking asylum, women, non Christians, children locked in rooms in schools with gunmen… I’m over protecting their feelings.
There is a lot of generalization over who conservatives are and how and what they think when the reality is much more diverse and complicated than that (same can be said of how some conservatives stereotype liberals).
I have some family who are highly educated, Trump hating conservatives and other family who are lesser educated MAGA types, a couple of whom branches onto conspiracy theories Those two types agree on some issues but not the rationale to get there, and on other issues, they'd disagree. I am literally one of the lone wolves in a sea of conservative family members. However, being more intimately familiar from the inside with how they think, the one thing I know with absolute certainty - for anyone - is that the tactic of talking in an elitist "see what you did you dumb@ss" way about a topic will immediately shut them down. In contrast, talking rationally and yes, respectfully even when it's been difficult, has made things happen. Like, for instance, I convinced three MAGA "never taking that shot" family members to get the COVID vaccine. I got one family member to agree that universal healthcare is s good thing.
The anti Trump conservatives think differently, they are highly educated. They are also honestly more middle of the road and at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they veer democratic in the next national election though holding their nose while they do it.
Anyhow, to suggest I condescendingly rub my own bother's prior voting history in his face after he has already changed his mind from his twenties to his forties and lost a wanted baby in the process? No, that's messed up.
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because she could have left to get the abortion. Because people raised money for the family to do so. Because they chose not to.
That wasn’t in this article.
It was in previous articles. Sorry your sources are poor reporters of the truth
1. The couple worried they could be arrested if they sought an out of state abortion and voiced concern about ensuring they could be there for their existing child
2. How sad of a world we are in that a woman would have to travel out of state for ethically appropriate healthcare
+1
It also puts the healthcare of women in the remaining free states at risk. There aren’t that many obstetricians to go around.
Anyone traveling to a state where abortion is still legal needs to show their voting record. If they voted GOP, nope, no taking services. You bought the ticket, you take the ride.
On the other hand, if this woman’s family starts voting for pro life candidates, that could be a lot of people changing sides. Milo’s parents, her parents, her 6 siblings, their spouses. That’s almost 20 people without getting into extended family, church, or friends. This is how change happens. Unfortunately because of republicans, a lot of babies are going to have to die, families will go into debt to pay for hospital bills that shouldn’t have been needed, some women will lose their fertility and lives along the way, and it’s going to break families apart with the stress of dying children, debt, and grief. But they will have won for a little while.
It may cause some people to change sides, but I doubt it. I have many prolifers in my own family who would stare down this kind of suffering, explain it away as God’s plan and good for them leaving open the possibility for a miracle, and then go right on back to the same crap way of voting. They don’t want to hear that they forced avoidable suffering on their loved ones. They don’t want to take accountability for they’ve done and what they supported.
They are all just “innocent Germans” who only cared about the economy.
Omg yes, this. I know all the same people, sadly.
Unfortunately. Abortion is also a violent procedure
A late term abortion involves injecting potassium
chloride into the heart to stop it That's it. That's violent vs watching the child gasp for air?
Sadly, palliative care for a newborn infant is still lacking in terms of knowledge among providers amd actual research for how best to apply it. It happens, but isn't so common to deal with a sudden infant death that is occurring within hours of birth. Research will improve given new laws that will require it more frequently, but undoubtedly, healthcare isn't as good as this as you might think for a newborn, let alone a newborn dying within 99 minutes requiring an IV and VERY quickly sorting out titrating up medication dosages.
Mother still has to deliver. Traumatic either way, no?
My staunchly conservative brother and sister in law were anti abortion till they found themselves in a very similar situation to this woman with a fatal diagnosis. My sister in law chose the potassium chloride and D&E route.
Please slap them the next time you see them and tell them they are hypocrites. People like this deserve to be slapped - I've cut off evil family members who do this sh-- and I hold them accountable for supporting evil.
I posted this and no, I will not. Do you do this with your conservative family members? Having honest conversations leads to progress. Shutting them leads nowhere.
Honestly, sometimes they need to be confronted with the same bilious invective they would have happily spewed on someone else back when they thought they’d be immune from consequences. Or at least a reminder they are fortunate to have had supportive family members that understood that these things are awful tragedies and you are choosing the best and humane course out of bad options.
Otherwise- these people are just coming away with the same “my abortion is a moral abortion” takeaway that leads them to restrict rights for others and results in less connected or wealthy women getting killed.
Honestly, there's a reason that no one talks to you IRL and that all of your friends and family have dropped you and don't respond to you.
Nice chat, but I generally don’t befriend fascists. If they dropped me I never noticed, my calendar is full.
Good on you, though. They love to kill people and relish in their “pro life” moral authority, knowing “libs” like you will have their back when it’s their lives on the line and will be quiet and discreet while they go right back to voting to kill other people.
I'm a liberal and I hate that kind of "cut you off and then smack you rub your face in it when I'm right" sh*t. Why? IT DOES NOT HELP, IT HURTS. I say this as a liberal with very conservative family members. They actually listen to me when I talk respectfully and point out concerns with their POV on certain topics. I have friends who talk that way of "just cut them off" and Every. Single. One. Of. Them. Lives in a sealed bubble of only people who think like them and makes it so easy to say this stuff. If you want to actually win the war you need to UNDERSTAND and directly address the other point of view to address it. Repeatedly. Over and over. That is a smart war tactic.
Hon, they listen to you respectfully and then they do what they want. Tell yourself what you need to tell yourself, but some people JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND until they experience it, and even then, they lack the self awareness to process how things would have been much worse for themselves if they got the treatment they wanted others to get.
They are trying to persuade you too. They most likely think they have God on their side. They are testing out their taking points on you. I’ve seen their literature- don’t be fooled into thinking you are making a difference.
Rubbing their faces in it might be the only thing that can work. God knows we’ve tried everything else in the past 50 years. Sad, but I’d rather rub their faces in their own tragedies than mine or an innocent’s.
Again, if you don't engage in conversation, you never win. I don't rub anyone's face in anything. I especially wouldn't do that w/ a conservative as that would certainly confirm their preconceived notions about liberal smugness. And FWIW, my conservative family members aren't all religious, so Christian beliefs aren't the reason all conservatives have certain stances. You might learn that if you talked to some of them. I know atheists who are anti-abortion without restrictions.
I know plenty of so-called “libertarian” atheist men who are happy to use abortion as a tool to control women because they are insecure in their masculinity or afraid a one night stand is going to reject their seed or something. I’ve met all sorts of forced birthers. I don’t really care their reasons, they don’t matter. They didn’t logic themselves into the box and I’m not going to logic them out. It may be helpful to get new talking points that may make it through the less thick of the skulls, but learned experience is what gets us out of this box we are in now.
Did you think we got Roe because women changed hearts and minds? No, we got Roe because enough middle class white men had enough middle class white women close to them die that they had a real problem on their hands. Dead wives, abandoned children, dead law clerks leaving a caseload. It appears we are going to have to go down the same road again because we learned nothing in the last 50 years. And I will be happy to “educate” the monsters who forced it to happen.
I'm pro choice, but you are way extreme in your views. People should disown their entire families of they have conservative family members? That's.... Not realistic nor helpful.
NP. I think you should read again what that poster write. She didn’t mention disowning conservative family members. The poster said she would educate the monsters who experienced the negative results of what they supported.
It's not necessary to educate them because they now have the same opinion. The PP is more about that not being hood enough, rub it in their face about their desired, but lost, child, per some other posts that were deleted.
In general even *many* conservatives are for abortion that is medically necessary, but unfortunately the extreme no exception types are dominating state law. It's telling that most conservative states are not putting it to a vote as they know how their predominantly conservative populations would vote as was already done in other states that did enact referendums.
NP. I don’t care that they kind of support abortion. They voted for the politicians who promised to overturn Roe. They supported restrictions to varying degrees without considering the consequences. They deserve to have their faces rubbed in it. I hope people point out that their votes, their support of overly conservative politicians got them to the place where their daughter had to file for bankruptcy and then divorced from the stress of losing a child and financial struggles after she wasn’t allowed to terminate her nonviable pregnancy. I hope they have PTSD from watching her almost die, and I hope they realize they did this to themselves. Same as how I hope the people who vote for NRA owned candidates struggle daily with the grief of knowing they could’ve voted differently and maybe saved their kids from gun violence. I hope the knowledge that they helped create that situation is as painful as the losses they suffer. They deserve that. Being polite and giving them grace hasn’t helped. They’re certainly not giving politeness and grace to trans kids, trans adults, people needing food assistance, people seeking asylum, women, non Christians, children locked in rooms in schools with gunmen… I’m over protecting their feelings.
There is a lot of generalization over who conservatives are and how and what they think when the reality is much more diverse and complicated than that (same can be said of how some conservatives stereotype liberals).
I have some family who are highly educated, Trump hating conservatives and other family who are lesser educated MAGA types, a couple of whom branches onto conspiracy theories Those two types agree on some issues but not the rationale to get there, and on other issues, they'd disagree. I am literally one of the lone wolves in a sea of conservative family members. However, being more intimately familiar from the inside with how they think, the one thing I know with absolute certainty - for anyone - is that the tactic of talking in an elitist "see what you did you dumb@ss" way about a topic will immediately shut them down. In contrast, talking rationally and yes, respectfully even when it's been difficult, has made things happen. Like, for instance, I convinced three MAGA "never taking that shot" family members to get the COVID vaccine. I got one family member to agree that universal healthcare is s good thing.
The anti Trump conservatives think differently, they are highly educated. They are also honestly more middle of the road and at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they veer democratic in the next national election though holding their nose while they do it.
Anyhow, to suggest I condescendingly rub my own bother's prior voting history in his face after he has already changed his mind from his twenties to his forties and lost a wanted baby in the process? No, that's messed up.
I get it. You want to be considerate of your brother who you no doubt love.
I have a sister-in-law like this. She is a Christian and I believe she comes from a good place. She truly thinks she knows what is needed for everyone and believes strongly that if she can just reach these women who are contemplating abortion, they would “choose life.” I had previously thought she was deluded but whatever - she can talk to whoever she wants about whatever she wants.
But now that we have some of these awful stories coming out, I cannot sit back and pretend her fake piousness is not poisonous. And I have quit giving her space to spew her anti abortion bile in my presence. I instead do tell her that the politicians she has spent a lifetime voting for are delivering what they have promised and the hellscape they are creating is worse than anything I could have imagined. She needs to learn that others don’t feel the same way she does.
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because she could have left to get the abortion. Because people raised money for the family to do so. Because they chose not to.
That wasn’t in this article.
It was in previous articles. Sorry your sources are poor reporters of the truth
1. The couple worried they could be arrested if they sought an out of state abortion and voiced concern about ensuring they could be there for their existing child
2. How sad of a world we are in that a woman would have to travel out of state for ethically appropriate healthcare
+1
It also puts the healthcare of women in the remaining free states at risk. There aren’t that many obstetricians to go around.
Anyone traveling to a state where abortion is still legal needs to show their voting record. If they voted GOP, nope, no taking services. You bought the ticket, you take the ride.
On the other hand, if this woman’s family starts voting for pro life candidates, that could be a lot of people changing sides. Milo’s parents, her parents, her 6 siblings, their spouses. That’s almost 20 people without getting into extended family, church, or friends. This is how change happens. Unfortunately because of republicans, a lot of babies are going to have to die, families will go into debt to pay for hospital bills that shouldn’t have been needed, some women will lose their fertility and lives along the way, and it’s going to break families apart with the stress of dying children, debt, and grief. But they will have won for a little while.
It may cause some people to change sides, but I doubt it. I have many prolifers in my own family who would stare down this kind of suffering, explain it away as God’s plan and good for them leaving open the possibility for a miracle, and then go right on back to the same crap way of voting. They don’t want to hear that they forced avoidable suffering on their loved ones. They don’t want to take accountability for they’ve done and what they supported.
They are all just “innocent Germans” who only cared about the economy.
Omg yes, this. I know all the same people, sadly.
Unfortunately. Abortion is also a violent procedure
A late term abortion involves injecting potassium
chloride into the heart to stop it That's it. That's violent vs watching the child gasp for air?
Sadly, palliative care for a newborn infant is still lacking in terms of knowledge among providers amd actual research for how best to apply it. It happens, but isn't so common to deal with a sudden infant death that is occurring within hours of birth. Research will improve given new laws that will require it more frequently, but undoubtedly, healthcare isn't as good as this as you might think for a newborn, let alone a newborn dying within 99 minutes requiring an IV and VERY quickly sorting out titrating up medication dosages.
Mother still has to deliver. Traumatic either way, no?
My staunchly conservative brother and sister in law were anti abortion till they found themselves in a very similar situation to this woman with a fatal diagnosis. My sister in law chose the potassium chloride and D&E route.
Please slap them the next time you see them and tell them they are hypocrites. People like this deserve to be slapped - I've cut off evil family members who do this sh-- and I hold them accountable for supporting evil.
I posted this and no, I will not. Do you do this with your conservative family members? Having honest conversations leads to progress. Shutting them leads nowhere.
Honestly, sometimes they need to be confronted with the same bilious invective they would have happily spewed on someone else back when they thought they’d be immune from consequences. Or at least a reminder they are fortunate to have had supportive family members that understood that these things are awful tragedies and you are choosing the best and humane course out of bad options.
Otherwise- these people are just coming away with the same “my abortion is a moral abortion” takeaway that leads them to restrict rights for others and results in less connected or wealthy women getting killed.
Honestly, there's a reason that no one talks to you IRL and that all of your friends and family have dropped you and don't respond to you.
Nice chat, but I generally don’t befriend fascists. If they dropped me I never noticed, my calendar is full.
Good on you, though. They love to kill people and relish in their “pro life” moral authority, knowing “libs” like you will have their back when it’s their lives on the line and will be quiet and discreet while they go right back to voting to kill other people.
I'm a liberal and I hate that kind of "cut you off and then smack you rub your face in it when I'm right" sh*t. Why? IT DOES NOT HELP, IT HURTS. I say this as a liberal with very conservative family members. They actually listen to me when I talk respectfully and point out concerns with their POV on certain topics. I have friends who talk that way of "just cut them off" and Every. Single. One. Of. Them. Lives in a sealed bubble of only people who think like them and makes it so easy to say this stuff. If you want to actually win the war you need to UNDERSTAND and directly address the other point of view to address it. Repeatedly. Over and over. That is a smart war tactic.
Hon, they listen to you respectfully and then they do what they want. Tell yourself what you need to tell yourself, but some people JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND until they experience it, and even then, they lack the self awareness to process how things would have been much worse for themselves if they got the treatment they wanted others to get.
They are trying to persuade you too. They most likely think they have God on their side. They are testing out their taking points on you. I’ve seen their literature- don’t be fooled into thinking you are making a difference.
Rubbing their faces in it might be the only thing that can work. God knows we’ve tried everything else in the past 50 years. Sad, but I’d rather rub their faces in their own tragedies than mine or an innocent’s.
Again, if you don't engage in conversation, you never win. I don't rub anyone's face in anything. I especially wouldn't do that w/ a conservative as that would certainly confirm their preconceived notions about liberal smugness. And FWIW, my conservative family members aren't all religious, so Christian beliefs aren't the reason all conservatives have certain stances. You might learn that if you talked to some of them. I know atheists who are anti-abortion without restrictions.
I know plenty of so-called “libertarian” atheist men who are happy to use abortion as a tool to control women because they are insecure in their masculinity or afraid a one night stand is going to reject their seed or something. I’ve met all sorts of forced birthers. I don’t really care their reasons, they don’t matter. They didn’t logic themselves into the box and I’m not going to logic them out. It may be helpful to get new talking points that may make it through the less thick of the skulls, but learned experience is what gets us out of this box we are in now.
Did you think we got Roe because women changed hearts and minds? No, we got Roe because enough middle class white men had enough middle class white women close to them die that they had a real problem on their hands. Dead wives, abandoned children, dead law clerks leaving a caseload. It appears we are going to have to go down the same road again because we learned nothing in the last 50 years. And I will be happy to “educate” the monsters who forced it to happen.
I'm pro choice, but you are way extreme in your views. People should disown their entire families of they have conservative family members? That's.... Not realistic nor helpful.
NP. I think you should read again what that poster write. She didn’t mention disowning conservative family members. The poster said she would educate the monsters who experienced the negative results of what they supported.
It's not necessary to educate them because they now have the same opinion. The PP is more about that not being hood enough, rub it in their face about their desired, but lost, child, per some other posts that were deleted.
In general even *many* conservatives are for abortion that is medically necessary, but unfortunately the extreme no exception types are dominating state law. It's telling that most conservative states are not putting it to a vote as they know how their predominantly conservative populations would vote as was already done in other states that did enact referendums.
NP. I don’t care that they kind of support abortion. They voted for the politicians who promised to overturn Roe. They supported restrictions to varying degrees without considering the consequences. They deserve to have their faces rubbed in it. I hope people point out that their votes, their support of overly conservative politicians got them to the place where their daughter had to file for bankruptcy and then divorced from the stress of losing a child and financial struggles after she wasn’t allowed to terminate her nonviable pregnancy. I hope they have PTSD from watching her almost die, and I hope they realize they did this to themselves. Same as how I hope the people who vote for NRA owned candidates struggle daily with the grief of knowing they could’ve voted differently and maybe saved their kids from gun violence. I hope the knowledge that they helped create that situation is as painful as the losses they suffer. They deserve that. Being polite and giving them grace hasn’t helped. They’re certainly not giving politeness and grace to trans kids, trans adults, people needing food assistance, people seeking asylum, women, non Christians, children locked in rooms in schools with gunmen… I’m over protecting their feelings.
There is a lot of generalization over who conservatives are and how and what they think when the reality is much more diverse and complicated than that (same can be said of how some conservatives stereotype liberals).
I have some family who are highly educated, Trump hating conservatives and other family who are lesser educated MAGA types, a couple of whom branches onto conspiracy theories Those two types agree on some issues but not the rationale to get there, and on other issues, they'd disagree. I am literally one of the lone wolves in a sea of conservative family members. However, being more intimately familiar from the inside with how they think, the one thing I know with absolute certainty - for anyone - is that the tactic of talking in an elitist "see what you did you dumb@ss" way about a topic will immediately shut them down. In contrast, talking rationally and yes, respectfully even when it's been difficult, has made things happen. Like, for instance, I convinced three MAGA "never taking that shot" family members to get the COVID vaccine. I got one family member to agree that universal healthcare is s good thing.
The anti Trump conservatives think differently, they are highly educated. They are also honestly more middle of the road and at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they veer democratic in the next national election though holding their nose while they do it.
Anyhow, to suggest I condescendingly rub my own bother's prior voting history in his face after he has already changed his mind from his twenties to his forties and lost a wanted baby in the process? No, that's messed up.
I get it. You want to be considerate of your brother who you no doubt love.
I have a sister-in-law like this. She is a Christian and I believe she comes from a good place. She truly thinks she knows what is needed for everyone and believes strongly that if she can just reach these women who are contemplating abortion, they would “choose life.” I had previously thought she was deluded but whatever - she can talk to whoever she wants about whatever she wants.
But now that we have some of these awful stories coming out, I cannot sit back and pretend her fake piousness is not poisonous. And I have quit giving her space to spew her anti abortion bile in my presence. I instead do tell her that the politicians she has spent a lifetime voting for are delivering what they have promised and the hellscape they are creating is worse than anything I could have imagined. She needs to learn that others don’t feel the same way she does.
I'm the PP and I also have family like this. I have one member who sounds exactly like this. They are the more MAGA types. I wouldn't have any problem either addressing what she said if she started going on. There's a way to do that though, to actually get the point across. It's playing chess.
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because she could have left to get the abortion. Because people raised money for the family to do so. Because they chose not to.
That wasn’t in this article.
It was in previous articles. Sorry your sources are poor reporters of the truth
1. The couple worried they could be arrested if they sought an out of state abortion and voiced concern about ensuring they could be there for their existing child
2. How sad of a world we are in that a woman would have to travel out of state for ethically appropriate healthcare
+1
It also puts the healthcare of women in the remaining free states at risk. There aren’t that many obstetricians to go around.
Anyone traveling to a state where abortion is still legal needs to show their voting record. If they voted GOP, nope, no taking services. You bought the ticket, you take the ride.
On the other hand, if this woman’s family starts voting for pro life candidates, that could be a lot of people changing sides. Milo’s parents, her parents, her 6 siblings, their spouses. That’s almost 20 people without getting into extended family, church, or friends. This is how change happens. Unfortunately because of republicans, a lot of babies are going to have to die, families will go into debt to pay for hospital bills that shouldn’t have been needed, some women will lose their fertility and lives along the way, and it’s going to break families apart with the stress of dying children, debt, and grief. But they will have won for a little while.
It may cause some people to change sides, but I doubt it. I have many prolifers in my own family who would stare down this kind of suffering, explain it away as God’s plan and good for them leaving open the possibility for a miracle, and then go right on back to the same crap way of voting. They don’t want to hear that they forced avoidable suffering on their loved ones. They don’t want to take accountability for they’ve done and what they supported.
They are all just “innocent Germans” who only cared about the economy.
Omg yes, this. I know all the same people, sadly.
Unfortunately. Abortion is also a violent procedure
A late term abortion involves injecting potassium
chloride into the heart to stop it That's it. That's violent vs watching the child gasp for air?
Sadly, palliative care for a newborn infant is still lacking in terms of knowledge among providers amd actual research for how best to apply it. It happens, but isn't so common to deal with a sudden infant death that is occurring within hours of birth. Research will improve given new laws that will require it more frequently, but undoubtedly, healthcare isn't as good as this as you might think for a newborn, let alone a newborn dying within 99 minutes requiring an IV and VERY quickly sorting out titrating up medication dosages.
Mother still has to deliver. Traumatic either way, no?
My staunchly conservative brother and sister in law were anti abortion till they found themselves in a very similar situation to this woman with a fatal diagnosis. My sister in law chose the potassium chloride and D&E route.
Please slap them the next time you see them and tell them they are hypocrites. People like this deserve to be slapped - I've cut off evil family members who do this sh-- and I hold them accountable for supporting evil.
I posted this and no, I will not. Do you do this with your conservative family members? Having honest conversations leads to progress. Shutting them leads nowhere.
Honestly, sometimes they need to be confronted with the same bilious invective they would have happily spewed on someone else back when they thought they’d be immune from consequences. Or at least a reminder they are fortunate to have had supportive family members that understood that these things are awful tragedies and you are choosing the best and humane course out of bad options.
Otherwise- these people are just coming away with the same “my abortion is a moral abortion” takeaway that leads them to restrict rights for others and results in less connected or wealthy women getting killed.
Honestly, there's a reason that no one talks to you IRL and that all of your friends and family have dropped you and don't respond to you.
Nice chat, but I generally don’t befriend fascists. If they dropped me I never noticed, my calendar is full.
Good on you, though. They love to kill people and relish in their “pro life” moral authority, knowing “libs” like you will have their back when it’s their lives on the line and will be quiet and discreet while they go right back to voting to kill other people.
I'm a liberal and I hate that kind of "cut you off and then smack you rub your face in it when I'm right" sh*t. Why? IT DOES NOT HELP, IT HURTS. I say this as a liberal with very conservative family members. They actually listen to me when I talk respectfully and point out concerns with their POV on certain topics. I have friends who talk that way of "just cut them off" and Every. Single. One. Of. Them. Lives in a sealed bubble of only people who think like them and makes it so easy to say this stuff. If you want to actually win the war you need to UNDERSTAND and directly address the other point of view to address it. Repeatedly. Over and over. That is a smart war tactic.
Hon, they listen to you respectfully and then they do what they want. Tell yourself what you need to tell yourself, but some people JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND until they experience it, and even then, they lack the self awareness to process how things would have been much worse for themselves if they got the treatment they wanted others to get.
They are trying to persuade you too. They most likely think they have God on their side. They are testing out their taking points on you. I’ve seen their literature- don’t be fooled into thinking you are making a difference.
Rubbing their faces in it might be the only thing that can work. God knows we’ve tried everything else in the past 50 years. Sad, but I’d rather rub their faces in their own tragedies than mine or an innocent’s.
Again, if you don't engage in conversation, you never win. I don't rub anyone's face in anything. I especially wouldn't do that w/ a conservative as that would certainly confirm their preconceived notions about liberal smugness. And FWIW, my conservative family members aren't all religious, so Christian beliefs aren't the reason all conservatives have certain stances. You might learn that if you talked to some of them. I know atheists who are anti-abortion without restrictions.
I know plenty of so-called “libertarian” atheist men who are happy to use abortion as a tool to control women because they are insecure in their masculinity or afraid a one night stand is going to reject their seed or something. I’ve met all sorts of forced birthers. I don’t really care their reasons, they don’t matter. They didn’t logic themselves into the box and I’m not going to logic them out. It may be helpful to get new talking points that may make it through the less thick of the skulls, but learned experience is what gets us out of this box we are in now.
Did you think we got Roe because women changed hearts and minds? No, we got Roe because enough middle class white men had enough middle class white women close to them die that they had a real problem on their hands. Dead wives, abandoned children, dead law clerks leaving a caseload. It appears we are going to have to go down the same road again because we learned nothing in the last 50 years. And I will be happy to “educate” the monsters who forced it to happen.
I'm pro choice, but you are way extreme in your views. People should disown their entire families of they have conservative family members? That's.... Not realistic nor helpful.
NP. I think you should read again what that poster write. She didn’t mention disowning conservative family members. The poster said she would educate the monsters who experienced the negative results of what they supported.
It's not necessary to educate them because they now have the same opinion. The PP is more about that not being hood enough, rub it in their face about their desired, but lost, child, per some other posts that were deleted.
In general even *many* conservatives are for abortion that is medically necessary, but unfortunately the extreme no exception types are dominating state law. It's telling that most conservative states are not putting it to a vote as they know how their predominantly conservative populations would vote as was already done in other states that did enact referendums.
NP. I don’t care that they kind of support abortion. They voted for the politicians who promised to overturn Roe. They supported restrictions to varying degrees without considering the consequences. They deserve to have their faces rubbed in it. I hope people point out that their votes, their support of overly conservative politicians got them to the place where their daughter had to file for bankruptcy and then divorced from the stress of losing a child and financial struggles after she wasn’t allowed to terminate her nonviable pregnancy. I hope they have PTSD from watching her almost die, and I hope they realize they did this to themselves. Same as how I hope the people who vote for NRA owned candidates struggle daily with the grief of knowing they could’ve voted differently and maybe saved their kids from gun violence. I hope the knowledge that they helped create that situation is as painful as the losses they suffer. They deserve that. Being polite and giving them grace hasn’t helped. They’re certainly not giving politeness and grace to trans kids, trans adults, people needing food assistance, people seeking asylum, women, non Christians, children locked in rooms in schools with gunmen… I’m over protecting their feelings.
There is a lot of generalization over who conservatives are and how and what they think when the reality is much more diverse and complicated than that (same can be said of how some conservatives stereotype liberals).
I have some family who are highly educated, Trump hating conservatives and other family who are lesser educated MAGA types, a couple of whom branches onto conspiracy theories Those two types agree on some issues but not the rationale to get there, and on other issues, they'd disagree. I am literally one of the lone wolves in a sea of conservative family members. However, being more intimately familiar from the inside with how they think, the one thing I know with absolute certainty - for anyone - is that the tactic of talking in an elitist "see what you did you dumb@ss" way about a topic will immediately shut them down. In contrast, talking rationally and yes, respectfully even when it's been difficult, has made things happen. Like, for instance, I convinced three MAGA "never taking that shot" family members to get the COVID vaccine. I got one family member to agree that universal healthcare is s good thing.
The anti Trump conservatives think differently, they are highly educated. They are also honestly more middle of the road and at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they veer democratic in the next national election though holding their nose while they do it.
Anyhow, to suggest I condescendingly rub my own bother's prior voting history in his face after he has already changed his mind from his twenties to his forties and lost a wanted baby in the process? No, that's messed up.
I get it. You want to be considerate of your brother who you no doubt love.
I have a sister-in-law like this. She is a Christian and I believe she comes from a good place. She truly thinks she knows what is needed for everyone and believes strongly that if she can just reach these women who are contemplating abortion, they would “choose life.” I had previously thought she was deluded but whatever - she can talk to whoever she wants about whatever she wants.
But now that we have some of these awful stories coming out, I cannot sit back and pretend her fake piousness is not poisonous. And I have quit giving her space to spew her anti abortion bile in my presence. I instead do tell her that the politicians she has spent a lifetime voting for are delivering what they have promised and the hellscape they are creating is worse than anything I could have imagined. She needs to learn that others don’t feel the same way she does.
I'm the PP and I also have family like this. I have one member who sounds exactly like this. They are the more MAGA types. I wouldn't have any problem either addressing what she said if she started going on. There's a way to do that though, to actually get the point across. It's playing chess.
I’m the PP who clearly triggered a lot of people. Call it whatever you want, “playing chess”, “persuading”, “educating”, “rubbing their faces in it”, etc. It is a difference of strategy, not of kind. You know your loved ones and relatives are wrong on this and people are getting very hurt as a result, and you are trying to change their minds.
In my experience, a more insidious approach that plants doubt and guilt is the one that works. You can’t reason someone out of a box they didn’t reason themselves into. Maybe it doesn’t register at all, maybe it grows and eventually gnaws away at them. Guilt and shame can be extremely powerful tools. Same with righteous anger, if these are the type that need to believe they were fooled into voting for such horrors. With many conservatives you do need to get personal, because they lack empathy. Sometimes you do need to connect the dots about how these laws impact their own ability to live their own, supposedly moral, lives. Kindly, of course, they are family.
Maybe some people you can reach on a purely intellectual level, but that’s a strategy that has repeatedly failed us since Roe came out. Blood and suffering is why we got Roe in the first place, not some reasoned policy debate. Conservatives at this point know that people burn out and it stops shocking after awhile. Right now they are just trying to wait us out just like they’ve successfully waited out every schoolhouse massacre. If dead kids couldn’t get them to budge on weapons of mass murder, why would a few dead women get them to budge on abortion?
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because she could have left to get the abortion. Because people raised money for the family to do so. Because they chose not to.
That wasn’t in this article.
It was in previous articles. Sorry your sources are poor reporters of the truth
1. The couple worried they could be arrested if they sought an out of state abortion and voiced concern about ensuring they could be there for their existing child
2. How sad of a world we are in that a woman would have to travel out of state for ethically appropriate healthcare
+1
It also puts the healthcare of women in the remaining free states at risk. There aren’t that many obstetricians to go around.
Anyone traveling to a state where abortion is still legal needs to show their voting record. If they voted GOP, nope, no taking services. You bought the ticket, you take the ride.
On the other hand, if this woman’s family starts voting for pro life candidates, that could be a lot of people changing sides. Milo’s parents, her parents, her 6 siblings, their spouses. That’s almost 20 people without getting into extended family, church, or friends. This is how change happens. Unfortunately because of republicans, a lot of babies are going to have to die, families will go into debt to pay for hospital bills that shouldn’t have been needed, some women will lose their fertility and lives along the way, and it’s going to break families apart with the stress of dying children, debt, and grief. But they will have won for a little while.
It may cause some people to change sides, but I doubt it. I have many prolifers in my own family who would stare down this kind of suffering, explain it away as God’s plan and good for them leaving open the possibility for a miracle, and then go right on back to the same crap way of voting. They don’t want to hear that they forced avoidable suffering on their loved ones. They don’t want to take accountability for they’ve done and what they supported.
They are all just “innocent Germans” who only cared about the economy.
Omg yes, this. I know all the same people, sadly.
Unfortunately. Abortion is also a violent procedure
A late term abortion involves injecting potassium
chloride into the heart to stop it That's it. That's violent vs watching the child gasp for air?
Sadly, palliative care for a newborn infant is still lacking in terms of knowledge among providers amd actual research for how best to apply it. It happens, but isn't so common to deal with a sudden infant death that is occurring within hours of birth. Research will improve given new laws that will require it more frequently, but undoubtedly, healthcare isn't as good as this as you might think for a newborn, let alone a newborn dying within 99 minutes requiring an IV and VERY quickly sorting out titrating up medication dosages.
Mother still has to deliver. Traumatic either way, no?
My staunchly conservative brother and sister in law were anti abortion till they found themselves in a very similar situation to this woman with a fatal diagnosis. My sister in law chose the potassium chloride and D&E route.
Please slap them the next time you see them and tell them they are hypocrites. People like this deserve to be slapped - I've cut off evil family members who do this sh-- and I hold them accountable for supporting evil.
I posted this and no, I will not. Do you do this with your conservative family members? Having honest conversations leads to progress. Shutting them leads nowhere.
Honestly, sometimes they need to be confronted with the same bilious invective they would have happily spewed on someone else back when they thought they’d be immune from consequences. Or at least a reminder they are fortunate to have had supportive family members that understood that these things are awful tragedies and you are choosing the best and humane course out of bad options.
Otherwise- these people are just coming away with the same “my abortion is a moral abortion” takeaway that leads them to restrict rights for others and results in less connected or wealthy women getting killed.
Honestly, there's a reason that no one talks to you IRL and that all of your friends and family have dropped you and don't respond to you.
Nice chat, but I generally don’t befriend fascists. If they dropped me I never noticed, my calendar is full.
Good on you, though. They love to kill people and relish in their “pro life” moral authority, knowing “libs” like you will have their back when it’s their lives on the line and will be quiet and discreet while they go right back to voting to kill other people.
I'm a liberal and I hate that kind of "cut you off and then smack you rub your face in it when I'm right" sh*t. Why? IT DOES NOT HELP, IT HURTS. I say this as a liberal with very conservative family members. They actually listen to me when I talk respectfully and point out concerns with their POV on certain topics. I have friends who talk that way of "just cut them off" and Every. Single. One. Of. Them. Lives in a sealed bubble of only people who think like them and makes it so easy to say this stuff. If you want to actually win the war you need to UNDERSTAND and directly address the other point of view to address it. Repeatedly. Over and over. That is a smart war tactic.
Hon, they listen to you respectfully and then they do what they want. Tell yourself what you need to tell yourself, but some people JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND until they experience it, and even then, they lack the self awareness to process how things would have been much worse for themselves if they got the treatment they wanted others to get.
They are trying to persuade you too. They most likely think they have God on their side. They are testing out their taking points on you. I’ve seen their literature- don’t be fooled into thinking you are making a difference.
Rubbing their faces in it might be the only thing that can work. God knows we’ve tried everything else in the past 50 years. Sad, but I’d rather rub their faces in their own tragedies than mine or an innocent’s.
Again, if you don't engage in conversation, you never win. I don't rub anyone's face in anything. I especially wouldn't do that w/ a conservative as that would certainly confirm their preconceived notions about liberal smugness. And FWIW, my conservative family members aren't all religious, so Christian beliefs aren't the reason all conservatives have certain stances. You might learn that if you talked to some of them. I know atheists who are anti-abortion without restrictions.
I know plenty of so-called “libertarian” atheist men who are happy to use abortion as a tool to control women because they are insecure in their masculinity or afraid a one night stand is going to reject their seed or something. I’ve met all sorts of forced birthers. I don’t really care their reasons, they don’t matter. They didn’t logic themselves into the box and I’m not going to logic them out. It may be helpful to get new talking points that may make it through the less thick of the skulls, but learned experience is what gets us out of this box we are in now.
Did you think we got Roe because women changed hearts and minds? No, we got Roe because enough middle class white men had enough middle class white women close to them die that they had a real problem on their hands. Dead wives, abandoned children, dead law clerks leaving a caseload. It appears we are going to have to go down the same road again because we learned nothing in the last 50 years. And I will be happy to “educate” the monsters who forced it to happen.
I'm pro choice, but you are way extreme in your views. People should disown their entire families of they have conservative family members? That's.... Not realistic nor helpful.
NP. I think you should read again what that poster write. She didn’t mention disowning conservative family members. The poster said she would educate the monsters who experienced the negative results of what they supported.
It's not necessary to educate them because they now have the same opinion. The PP is more about that not being hood enough, rub it in their face about their desired, but lost, child, per some other posts that were deleted.
In general even *many* conservatives are for abortion that is medically necessary, but unfortunately the extreme no exception types are dominating state law. It's telling that most conservative states are not putting it to a vote as they know how their predominantly conservative populations would vote as was already done in other states that did enact referendums.
Most conservatives also support stronger gun laws, but there too, the extremists are dominating politics. Why is that?
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because politicians and the SCOTUS don’t care to hear women. We are second class citizens in their eyes.
So really, the goal is to get judges thrown off the court and replaced with judges you approve of?
"Thrown off"? No. But judges we "approve of"? Absolutely. Those judges we approve of would be ones that protect women's medical privacy and choices. I want politicians OUT of reproductive choices.
100%
And this is why republicans will keep losing. Women are not taking it.
Sadly many, many Republican women are fine with misogyny.
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because politicians and the SCOTUS don’t care to hear women. We are second class citizens in their eyes.
So really, the goal is to get judges thrown off the court and replaced with judges you approve of?
"Thrown off"? No. But judges we "approve of"? Absolutely. Those judges we approve of would be ones that protect women's medical privacy and choices. I want politicians OUT of reproductive choices.
100%
And this is why republicans will keep losing. Women are not taking it.
Sadly many, many Republican women are fine with misogyny.
+1. So many women are fine with these policies.
Gee A lot of women support life. Imagine that.
Grow up and join the adult conversation. The conversation you think your having is more appropriate for a late elementary school age youth group discussion on abortion at an evangelical church.
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because she could have left to get the abortion. Because people raised money for the family to do so. Because they chose not to.
That wasn’t in this article.
It was in previous articles. Sorry your sources are poor reporters of the truth
1. The couple worried they could be arrested if they sought an out of state abortion and voiced concern about ensuring they could be there for their existing child
2. How sad of a world we are in that a woman would have to travel out of state for ethically appropriate healthcare
+1
It also puts the healthcare of women in the remaining free states at risk. There aren’t that many obstetricians to go around.
Anyone traveling to a state where abortion is still legal needs to show their voting record. If they voted GOP, nope, no taking services. You bought the ticket, you take the ride.
On the other hand, if this woman’s family starts voting for pro life candidates, that could be a lot of people changing sides. Milo’s parents, her parents, her 6 siblings, their spouses. That’s almost 20 people without getting into extended family, church, or friends. This is how change happens. Unfortunately because of republicans, a lot of babies are going to have to die, families will go into debt to pay for hospital bills that shouldn’t have been needed, some women will lose their fertility and lives along the way, and it’s going to break families apart with the stress of dying children, debt, and grief. But they will have won for a little while.
It may cause some people to change sides, but I doubt it. I have many prolifers in my own family who would stare down this kind of suffering, explain it away as God’s plan and good for them leaving open the possibility for a miracle, and then go right on back to the same crap way of voting. They don’t want to hear that they forced avoidable suffering on their loved ones. They don’t want to take accountability for they’ve done and what they supported.
They are all just “innocent Germans” who only cared about the economy.
Omg yes, this. I know all the same people, sadly.
Unfortunately. Abortion is also a violent procedure
A late term abortion involves injecting potassium
chloride into the heart to stop it That's it. That's violent vs watching the child gasp for air?
Sadly, palliative care for a newborn infant is still lacking in terms of knowledge among providers amd actual research for how best to apply it. It happens, but isn't so common to deal with a sudden infant death that is occurring within hours of birth. Research will improve given new laws that will require it more frequently, but undoubtedly, healthcare isn't as good as this as you might think for a newborn, let alone a newborn dying within 99 minutes requiring an IV and VERY quickly sorting out titrating up medication dosages.
Mother still has to deliver. Traumatic either way, no?
Mother can undego D&E. It isn't your place to choose what is least traumatic to another person, no? That IS what you are doing here.
Again, she had choices.
So we’ve moved from “the laws allow abortion for women whose health is at risk or when the baby wouldn’t survive anyway” to “well she could’ve traveled hundreds of miles after seeking donations from friends and family IF they can find an out of state clinic” in less than a year. I thought it would take longer to stop pretending that abortion bans wouldn’t hurt women and children.
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because politicians and the SCOTUS don’t care to hear women. We are second class citizens in their eyes.
So really, the goal is to get judges thrown off the court and replaced with judges you approve of?
"Thrown off"? No. But judges we "approve of"? Absolutely. Those judges we approve of would be ones that protect women's medical privacy and choices. I want politicians OUT of reproductive choices.
100%
And this is why republicans will keep losing. Women are not taking it.
Sadly many, many Republican women are fine with misogyny.
+1. So many women are fine with these policies.
Gee A lot of women support life. Imagine that.
Forcing a woman to give birth to a terminally ill baby, who gasps for air in his final hours, in pain . . . and then sticking the family with tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills is not "supporting life."
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because politicians and the SCOTUS don’t care to hear women. We are second class citizens in their eyes.
So really, the goal is to get judges thrown off the court and replaced with judges you approve of?
"Thrown off"? No. But judges we "approve of"? Absolutely. Those judges we approve of would be ones that protect women's medical privacy and choices. I want politicians OUT of reproductive choices.
100%
And this is why republicans will keep losing. Women are not taking it.
Sadly many, many Republican women are fine with misogyny.
+1. So many women are fine with these policies.
Gee A lot of women support life. Imagine that.
Forcing a woman to give birth to a terminally ill baby, who gasps for air in his final hours, in pain . . . and then sticking the family with tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills is not "supporting life."
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because she could have left to get the abortion. Because people raised money for the family to do so. Because they chose not to.
That wasn’t in this article.
It was in previous articles. Sorry your sources are poor reporters of the truth
1. The couple worried they could be arrested if they sought an out of state abortion and voiced concern about ensuring they could be there for their existing child
2. How sad of a world we are in that a woman would have to travel out of state for ethically appropriate healthcare
+1
It also puts the healthcare of women in the remaining free states at risk. There aren’t that many obstetricians to go around.
Anyone traveling to a state where abortion is still legal needs to show their voting record. If they voted GOP, nope, no taking services. You bought the ticket, you take the ride.
On the other hand, if this woman’s family starts voting for pro life candidates, that could be a lot of people changing sides. Milo’s parents, her parents, her 6 siblings, their spouses. That’s almost 20 people without getting into extended family, church, or friends. This is how change happens. Unfortunately because of republicans, a lot of babies are going to have to die, families will go into debt to pay for hospital bills that shouldn’t have been needed, some women will lose their fertility and lives along the way, and it’s going to break families apart with the stress of dying children, debt, and grief. But they will have won for a little while.
It may cause some people to change sides, but I doubt it. I have many prolifers in my own family who would stare down this kind of suffering, explain it away as God’s plan and good for them leaving open the possibility for a miracle, and then go right on back to the same crap way of voting. They don’t want to hear that they forced avoidable suffering on their loved ones. They don’t want to take accountability for they’ve done and what they supported.
They are all just “innocent Germans” who only cared about the economy.
Omg yes, this. I know all the same people, sadly.
Unfortunately. Abortion is also a violent procedure
A late term abortion involves injecting potassium
chloride into the heart to stop it That's it. That's violent vs watching the child gasp for air?
Sadly, palliative care for a newborn infant is still lacking in terms of knowledge among providers amd actual research for how best to apply it. It happens, but isn't so common to deal with a sudden infant death that is occurring within hours of birth. Research will improve given new laws that will require it more frequently, but undoubtedly, healthcare isn't as good as this as you might think for a newborn, let alone a newborn dying within 99 minutes requiring an IV and VERY quickly sorting out titrating up medication dosages.
Mother still has to deliver. Traumatic either way, no?
Mother can undego D&E. It isn't your place to choose what is least traumatic to another person, no? That IS what you are doing here.
Again, she had choices.
So we’ve moved from “the laws allow abortion for women whose health is at risk or when the baby wouldn’t survive anyway” to “well she could’ve traveled hundreds of miles after seeking donations from friends and family IF they can find an out of state clinic” in less than a year. I thought it would take longer to stop pretending that abortion bans wouldn’t hurt women and children.
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because politicians and the SCOTUS don’t care to hear women. We are second class citizens in their eyes.
So really, the goal is to get judges thrown off the court and replaced with judges you approve of?
"Thrown off"? No. But judges we "approve of"? Absolutely. Those judges we approve of would be ones that protect women's medical privacy and choices. I want politicians OUT of reproductive choices.
100%
And this is why republicans will keep losing. Women are not taking it.
Sadly many, many Republican women are fine with misogyny.
+1. So many women are fine with these policies.
Gee A lot of women support life. Imagine that.
Forcing a woman to give birth to a terminally ill baby, who gasps for air in his final hours, in pain . . . and then sticking the family with tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills is not "supporting life."
And the women who's lives are endangered because they have to carry an unviable fetus until they can prove that they have life-threatening complications. The baby has no chance to live but the mother must wait until she has a life-threatening infection before she can treated. Nothing about that is "supporting life".
the playing chess thing makes me think back to a sketch where the people were talking about Trump being the pigeon thinking he was actually playing checkers and would just eat the pieces and take dumps on the board
Anonymous wrote:I’m really not interested in hearing what a father thinks. Why is he speaking for the mother? Why don’t he let her speak for herself?
Because politicians and the SCOTUS don’t care to hear women. We are second class citizens in their eyes.
So really, the goal is to get judges thrown off the court and replaced with judges you approve of?
"Thrown off"? No. But judges we "approve of"? Absolutely. Those judges we approve of would be ones that protect women's medical privacy and choices. I want politicians OUT of reproductive choices.
100%
And this is why republicans will keep losing. Women are not taking it.
Sadly many, many Republican women are fine with misogyny.
+1. So many women are fine with these policies.
Gee A lot of women support life. Imagine that.
Forcing a woman to give birth to a terminally ill baby, who gasps for air in his final hours, in pain . . . and then sticking the family with tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills is not "supporting life."
It’s also not family values to try to rip apart families by forcing them to endure the death of an infant, mess with their fertility, and stick them with tens of thousands of dollars in medical and funeral expenses.
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