NYTimes: College educated workers are leaving DC due to high housing costs

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not just cheaper housing. It’s better schools, less crime and fewer homeless people.

Not to mention rural, towns and suburbs have caught up in terms of dining, gyms and other amenities. You no longer need to live in a city for access to these things.

Virginia?
No. I live in a rural town and there is none of the following here or within 90 minutes of me: stores such as Lululemon, Apple, Athleta, Nordstrom, Coach and also Whole Foods, Equinox, Lifetime Fitness, Trader Joe’s, Soulcycle, Justsalad, Sweetgreen and Cava.

Every single one of these things that isn’t edible is available more conveniently online, and my smaller town has a better organic market and much better artisanal restaurants than Sweetgreen and Cava lol.

What smaller town can support an organic market?? This most be a vacation destination. Real rural towns don’t have organic markets, they have a section in Walmart. .

This is just untrue. I lived in a very rural town that had an organic co-op.

You should get out once in a while.

Outside of New England It a resort town? Name the state

The state is affectionately called Nunya by the locals - the long name is Nunyabidnis

[Anonymous]

My son and his fiancé just moved back in with us. They went to GW. Though they both have professional jobs they both work in Virginia and figured they could live here for a year and save money for a house. They are hoping to buy in Reston, but even that’s astronomical and they have to save at least 150k to every remotely buy a starter home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not just cheaper housing. It’s better schools, less crime and fewer homeless people.

Not to mention rural, towns and suburbs have caught up in terms of dining, gyms and other amenities. You no longer need to live in a city for access to these things.

The article doesn't say that college educated workers are leaving DC for rural areas and suburbs. It says they are leaving DC and environs for other cities.

The people in question want to live in a city, they just want to live in a city they can actually afford. They are not moving to Frederick or La Plata County, Maryland. They are moving to Philadelphia, Denver, Minneapolis, Nashville, etc. -- cities with many of the same amenities as DC but cheaper housing and an overall lower cost of living.

Housing is cheaper in these cities?

Housing is definitely cheaper in the nice areas of Philly & suburbs of it versus DC/NYC. By a lot.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reality is that these T2 cities now have most of the amenities of larger cities with nicer housing, less traffic and fewer awful people. And for the number of times you actually use the Smithsonian or go to the theater, you can travel to NYC or DC four times a year to see the shows and then GTFO back to a more civilized enclave.

Depends on the person. We actually use the Smithsonian almost every weekend. We are also tired of the high cost of housing and some of the culture in DC, and are exploring moving elsewhere. But losing access to free museums and events, all year round, is actually a big deal and not easy to give up.

Another issue we are encountering is that there are very few truly walkable cities in the US. DC, NYC, Boston, Philly. Chicago has decent public transportation which can make it walkable if you live/work/go to school in the right place. Seattle is walkable in parts but it's public transportation is spotty. All the other alternatives people have mentioned -- Minneapolis, Portland, Denver, Austin, etc. -- you will be very car dependent.

But NYC and Seattle are as expensive if not more so than DC. Boston is comparable. Philly and Chicago are cheaper; they are also more insular and can be harder to move to as an outsider -- fewer transplants and if you aren't from there, it can be socially difficult.

I totally get why people might want to leave DC. We often feel that way. But the idea that there are lots of other cities that offer what DC offers is false. DC offers something really unique: a walkable, modern city with a booming economy, tons of cultural/social activities and venues, AND a culture that is extremely friendly to newcomers and outsiders.

I can’t recommend Philly enough. Like all big cities, it has big city problems, but cost of living is so much better and has all of the amenities, most of which are better than DC. Much better in terms of restaurants, etc. Also, it really isn’t insular at least in greater center city. Lots of transplants from Europe as well. The only major issue is that schools are difficult to navigate in the city. There are options but not easy if you don’t go private. Suburbs have comparable school stock to DC burbs

I absolutely respectfully disagree with PP about culture that is friendly to newcomers and outsiders here. I'm from Chicago and came here years ago for a job where I met my husband and settled. I am STILL having a hard time making solid friendships work. Most of the folks that I get along with end up moving after x amount of time. Nobody who I really like stays. Nobody here is truly nice - there's always a motive for being "nice" so that they seem like it but really aren't. I have never actually met so many not nice people until I came out here. In the MW like Chicago, I met truly nice people. Normal people who said how they felt and did not play games with you - the social aspect here is very very important to people and what results is that you can't really trust anyone to be a friend even if they are "nice" to you. I love Philly a lot and I don't think that the school thing is really the big obstacle - I have to put my kids in private in Alexandria so on top of high cost of living - there is the school to consider paying for. I HATE it here but it's where we've settled. But make no mistake, I would never ever suggest people to move here or stay here if they could leave. I would never suggest this area is friendly and nice. The places mentioned like Philly, Chicago, even SF and NYC - these are artistic centers and moreover, financial hubs (NYC/Chicago anyway). They are food places. In DC I know people think there's good food here but they have no idea. It's lawyers who like to be seen and pay $$$ for fancy beautiful looking dishes. Really good food is what you get in Chicago/Philly/NYC - Fancy and good food are NOT the same. Anyway, I just do not feel that DMV really great taste - great educated people maybe and even well travelled but kinda like new money, they aren't refined and do not have a lot of taste. Most people I know who do leave DMV after some time.

+1

Agree 100%.

Depends on one's point of reference. Some local bully shows up to these threads trying to pry "where is better?!". Don't bother telling them. We don't want the good places to become ick. The good people do not stay in the DMV. Some people don't care for the social games and ridiculous middle school BS. There are educated and well traveled people elsewhere who are actually good humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not just cheaper housing. It’s better schools, less crime and fewer homeless people.

Not to mention rural, towns and suburbs have caught up in terms of dining, gyms and other amenities. You no longer need to live in a city for access to these things.

No. I live in a rural town and there is none of the following here or within 90 minutes of me: stores such as Lululemon, Apple, Athleta, Nordstrom, Coach and also Whole Foods, Equinox, Lifetime Fitness, Trader Joe’s, Soulcycle, Justsalad, Sweetgreen and Cava.

I live in a rural setting and nearly all of that is within 45 minutes - which, where I am, is about 15-20 minutes past the nearest thing.

Who wants to drive 45min each way to go to TJ? That's my weekly grocery run which is 10min away.

I live in the burbs, and all of that is within 15min from me.

My teen kids, 20/30 something yr old nieces/nephews want a big suburb, not rural and not big city.

NP. WTF wants to go to TJ's as a primary grocery store in the first place? Are you that desperate for small, overpriced packages of processed frozen foods?

[Anonymous]

This isn't news worthy and has been going for at least the last 20 years. DC was never affordable for college grads and when people want to "settle down" they rarely do it in HCOL unless they have very high compensation.

[Anonymous]

Young people frequent the cities until they’re about 30-35. Then they move to the suburbs once it’s time to settle down. This is nothing really new.

The middle aged couples with kids who stay in the city to raise their kids to deal with bad schools and crime are truly the selfish ones for wanting to relive their youths when in reality, it’s just sad.

[Anonymous]

I feel so sorry for these kids that are missing out on the post college city life. My friends and I had so much fun during those years and learned a lot about ourselves as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Young people frequent the cities until they’re about 30-35. Then they move to the suburbs once it’s time to settle down. This is nothing really new.

The middle aged couples with kids who stay in the city to raise their kids to deal with bad schools and crime are truly the selfish ones for wanting to relive their youths when in reality, it’s just sad.

Truly wealthy people all live in the cities. Sorry you can’t afford that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We left dc and it was the best decision we made. Our kids go to a strong public in our new, small city. The mental load here is so much less - less competitive professionally and academically, cost of living is about 60% less than dc, there is little traffic. We have everything we need, albeit no world class museums or a multitude of fine dining restaurants, but we don’t miss those things that much. We have calm, normal neighbors who do normal things and take normal vacations. My kids aren’t in a pressure cooker school yet still seems to be learning a ton and doing great on standardized testing. Their college options are better coming from here than close in DMV. We have room to breathe. We moved about 4 years ago and our house has appreciated about 50%.

Congratulations on the mediocrity.

DP. Why hate on someone who doesn’t like being in DC? I live here and there’s nothing truly remarkable about living here. Housing options suck and are expensive (yet the homes themselves are built so poorly), traffic, and it’s a ratrace. What’s so remarkable about DC?

History, museums, arts, architecture, and tons of interesting people with interesting jobs. Sure, you can get sucked into some crappy scene here. If what you want is some place that is cheaper, easier to drive around, and with fewer high achieving people to make you feel insecure, that's fine, but it sounds pretty mediocre.

LOL

There’s nothing interesting about being a government worker. At all.

Sorry that that's your scene here. It does sound boring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We left dc and it was the best decision we made. Our kids go to a strong public in our new, small city. The mental load here is so much less - less competitive professionally and academically, cost of living is about 60% less than dc, there is little traffic. We have everything we need, albeit no world class museums or a multitude of fine dining restaurants, but we don’t miss those things that much. We have calm, normal neighbors who do normal things and take normal vacations. My kids aren’t in a pressure cooker school yet still seems to be learning a ton and doing great on standardized testing. Their college options are better coming from here than close in DMV. We have room to breathe. We moved about 4 years ago and our house has appreciated about 50%.

Congratulations on the mediocrity.

DP. Why hate on someone who doesn’t like being in DC? I live here and there’s nothing truly remarkable about living here. Housing options suck and are expensive (yet the homes themselves are built so poorly), traffic, and it’s a ratrace. What’s so remarkable about DC?

History, museums, arts, architecture, and tons of interesting people with interesting jobs. Sure, you can get sucked into some crappy scene here. If what you want is some place that is cheaper, easier to drive around, and with fewer high achieving people to make you feel insecure, that's fine, but it sounds pretty mediocre.

LOL

There’s nothing interesting about being a government worker. At all.

Seriously if you want interesting high achieving people with interesting jobs go to NYC. Or a tech hub.

You have obviously never lived in NYC or a "tech hub" if you think that. I've lived in both NYC and SF. NYC is full of finance and finance-related people -- ultra boring. Unless you are talking the artsy types who now live in outer reaches of Brooklyn and Queens, NYC is not about interesting jobs anymore. It is about money. And don't even get me started on the tech hub....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not just cheaper housing. It’s better schools, less crime and fewer homeless people.

Not to mention rural, towns and suburbs have caught up in terms of dining, gyms and other amenities. You no longer need to live in a city for access to these things.

Yeah the Smithsonian is opening in rural towns and cities nationwide.

I'm a diehard DC native but underfunding of the Smithsonian plus the investment that other museums in smaller cities have done is leveling the playing field. we moved to a smaller midwestern city, hopefully its only for a little while- i want to move back to DC- butttt I've been shocked at how good the various museums, conservatory/symphony and gardens actually are. We did just get a sweet green and there is no pret a manger or blue mercury- we have to drive to a larger city for that - something I whine about to my spouse ALL the time so not having the ability to just pick up perfume while I am TJ's on 14th is something I miss A LOT.. is the inconvenience enough for me to not have a sub $500k Edwardian house walkable to my kids schools, bikable to pretty much everything else we need and saving enough to buy a summer cabin and go on 3-4 major vacations a year plus private school, hit retirement goals plus 529? we are from a 'diverse' background which is also a factor but when I compare everything we have here and what we would trade to move back to DC, despite my nagging feeling of homesickness, its a really tough choice. I am still on teh fence b.c I grew up in DC and my immediate family is there but day to day life is better and if I lived in a suburb- American suburbs are really indistuigashable. There is zero difference in living in a suburb in Raleigh, St. Louis or DC. as you move west, it changes bc of teh landscape and Phoenix, boulder etc are different but this side of the Mississippi the suburbs are all the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young people frequent the cities until they’re about 30-35. Then they move to the suburbs once it’s time to settle down. This is nothing really new.

The middle aged couples with kids who stay in the city to raise their kids to deal with bad schools and crime are truly the selfish ones for wanting to relive their youths when in reality, it’s just sad.

Truly wealthy people all live in the cities. Sorry you can’t afford that.

Affordability isn’t the issue. Bad schools, lack of green space, and crime are real factors. I don’t want to have to worry about my 14 year old daughter getting stalked by a creep on the metro. No thanks.

People ignoring rising crime in cities to justify how “wealthy” they are and it’s completely laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not just cheaper housing. It’s better schools, less crime and fewer homeless people.

Not to mention rural, towns and suburbs have caught up in terms of dining, gyms and other amenities. You no longer need to live in a city for access to these things.

No. I live in a rural town and there is none of the following here or within 90 minutes of me: stores such as Lululemon, Apple, Athleta, Nordstrom, Coach and also Whole Foods, Equinox, Lifetime Fitness, Trader Joe’s, Soulcycle, Justsalad, Sweetgreen and Cava.

Every single one of these things that isn’t edible is available more conveniently online, and my smaller town has a better organic market and much better artisanal restaurants than Sweetgreen and Cava lol.

What smaller town can support an organic market?? This most be a vacation destination. Real rural towns don’t have organic markets, they have a section in Walmart. .

This is just untrue. I lived in a very rural town that had an organic co-op.

You should get out once in a while.

Outside of New England It a resort town? Name the state

I've lived in North Carolina and Wisconsin- this is true of both. I still would never willingly move to any one these states permanently though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We left dc and it was the best decision we made. Our kids go to a strong public in our new, small city. The mental load here is so much less - less competitive professionally and academically, cost of living is about 60% less than dc, there is little traffic. We have everything we need, albeit no world class museums or a multitude of fine dining restaurants, but we don’t miss those things that much. We have calm, normal neighbors who do normal things and take normal vacations. My kids aren’t in a pressure cooker school yet still seems to be learning a ton and doing great on standardized testing. Their college options are better coming from here than close in DMV. We have room to breathe. We moved about 4 years ago and our house has appreciated about 50%.

Congratulations on the mediocrity.

I think it sounds great. And I live in NYC, so I consider DC pedestrian. It's all about perspective.