Is Peter Stuyvesant having the same problems as TJ?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sty? lots of mit and caltech and totally miserable asian students there. they cannot wait to get to college, any college.

it's Stuy, since you're so familiar with it. You can look at their instagram page. The kids do great, which isn't a big shock, although money is often a big consideration. Every major college visits the school - some make pretty crazy announcements. UChicago said their director of admissions personally handles the Stuy file and reads all the essays.

Admissions is always 100% honest. Everything they tell you is gospel. LOL. They are professional bs artists. They tell every crowd what they want to hear.

Agree. College admissions are the worst con artists. If they were publicly traded companies they should serve hard time at Club Fed for fraud.

Do all schools get things like this every year?

JUNIOR FAMILIES;
Our colleagues at the University of Chicago are hosting a virtual event exclusively for Stuyvesant High School juniors and their families on Wednesday, May XX, at 7:00pm. Juniors and parents/guardians who are registered on Naviance have received an emal with the registration link from Mr. Makris. If you did not receive it, you may contact [e-mail] or the college office for the link.

Hosted for Stuyvesant by Jim Nondorf, Dean of College Admissions and Financial Aid at the University of Chicago, we will discuss frequently asked questions about the highly selective admissions process, how students’ experiences might translate to their college applications, and also share some information about UChicago’s response to the pandemic. Stuyvesant HS and UChicago alumnus David Axelrod will also be making a special appearance.

Before registering, please consider the following:

How is this allowed in 2023?

Aww, look at all the UMC white families suddenly crying about unfairness!

Stuy is a special school with special kids, many of whom are poor or working class, have long commutes on subways to get to school, work their butts off, don't have nannies or tutors or a SAH parent, and you're going to complain that colleges are falling over themselves to recruit them?

Nobody seems to be falling over themselves to recruit kids at the top of their class stuck in podunk rural high schools. The message is that the big city kids who go to well-resourced prep & magnet schools get all the love.

If they get a 1550 on their SAT, they will look at them. But they don't get 1550 on their SAT because their are mid.

[Anonymous]

It's called Stuy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m really impressed with Stuy’s college admissions. The major difference between the students at Stuy and a school line Sidwell is that the Sidwell kids are almost all hooked. Sidwell students are legacy and parents have likely donated $. Stuy kids are not hooked, not legacy and has a very large first gen and FARMs population. Not only are they not rich, they are poor, like they have to help support their families poor.

Come on, being First gen and low income IS hooked. It's a different kind of hook.

I'm a NYer and I think you overestimate how many Stuy kids are first gen. It's a small minority. Low-ish income: yes, many, but not Pell eligible. Second gen: sure, many, but that gets you thinking college-wise.

Stuy is 40-50 percent FARMS.

Lots have parents who were university-educated in their home country.

Impressive how many top-educated Chinese will throw away their income for a chance for their children in USA. Or they are FIRE retirees.

Chinese parent of Stuy student (and parent of Bx Sci alumn) - I don't know any university educated Chinese who threw away their income and careers for their kids to be here. All the Asian parents I knew as a child and now as a parent at Stuy were and are employed per their education level.
There are PLENTY of parents at Stuy who live thru their children though and are sahm. But how different is it from the MBA or JD on-Asian who chose to be a sahm?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m really impressed with Stuy’s college admissions. The major difference between the students at Stuy and a school line Sidwell is that the Sidwell kids are almost all hooked. Sidwell students are legacy and parents have likely donated $. Stuy kids are not hooked, not legacy and has a very large first gen and FARMs population. Not only are they not rich, they are poor, like they have to help support their families poor.

Come on, being First gen and low income IS hooked. It's a different kind of hook.

I'm a NYer and I think you overestimate how many Stuy kids are first gen. It's a small minority. Low-ish income: yes, many, but not Pell eligible. Second gen: sure, many, but that gets you thinking college-wise.

Stuy is 40-50 percent FARMS.

Lots have parents who were university-educated in their home country.

Impressive how many top-educated Chinese will throw away their income for a chance for their children in USA. Or they are FIRE retirees.

Chinese parent of Stuy student (and parent of Bx Sci alumn) - I don't know any university educated Chinese who threw away their income and careers for their kids to be here. All the Asian parents I knew as a child and now as a parent at Stuy were and are employed per their education level.
There are PLENTY of parents at Stuy who live thru their children though and are sahm. But how different is it from the MBA or JD on-Asian who chose to be a sahm?

I don't know about now but back when I went there were a lot of poor east asians at stuy.
I suspect there is a large poor immigrant population there today as well.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am not sure what "problem" the OP was referring to, but I heard this year's college admission results are much worse comparing to prior years. These students were admitted to TJ before the "reform" FWIW.

College admission results have been more unpredictable i recent years for many reasons. It's not because of the high school someone goes to.

Actually going to TJ or highly ranked magnet or Big 3 prep is a DISadvantage. Colleges do a lot of economic balancing and geographic balancing. I would say it’s even more insidious than racial balancing.

You're delusional. Look at the big 3 college admissions and compare them to any random public school. Do you want to compare TJ results with all those super advantaged poor kids at MVHS?

The fact of life is that any bottom feeder at Big 3 is academically superior to the valedictorian of a “random” public HS.

Wow! No. That is absolutely not the case.

Yes it is. I was bottom of my TJ class and in middle school I was the best student by far. Perfect SOLs for 3 years and straight 100% in every class.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure what "problem" the OP was referring to, but I heard this year's college admission results are much worse comparing to prior years. These students were admitted to TJ before the "reform" FWIW.

College admission results have been more unpredictable i recent years for many reasons. It's not because of the high school someone goes to.

Actually going to TJ or highly ranked magnet or Big 3 prep is a DISadvantage. Colleges do a lot of economic balancing and geographic balancing. I would say it’s even more insidious than racial balancing.

You're delusional. Look at the big 3 college admissions and compare them to any random public school. Do you want to compare TJ results with all those super advantaged poor kids at MVHS?

The fact of life is that any bottom feeder at Big 3 is academically superior to the valedictorian of a “random” public HS.

Wow! No. That is absolutely not the case.

Yes it is. I was bottom of my TJ class and in middle school I was the best student by far. Perfect SOLs for 3 years and straight 100% in every class.

It's definitely not true now.

The admissions process has "democratized" TJ so the bottom at TJ is probably mid at Carson

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Their demographics are very different, with something like 50% of the kids being first gen, and nearly as many FARMS. I would be surprised if their college admissions results are substantially different than in the past.

The first generation students who manage to get into Stuy and other similar city schools are top students with self motivation and drive. The private school students even with tutors and small classes and the best of everything can’t compete with them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Their demographics are very different, with something like 50% of the kids being first gen, and nearly as many FARMS. I would be surprised if their college admissions results are substantially different than in the past.

The first generation students who manage to get into Stuy and other similar city schools are top students with self motivation and drive. The private school students even with tutors and small classes and the best of everything can’t compete with them.

As a stuy grad, I wish this were true but it's not.

The fancy private schools like Trinity, Collegiate, Dalton, and a bunch of others send a larger share of their kids to top 50 schools.

Stuy may be the best publlic high school in NYC but there are like half a dozen private schools better than stuy.
A lot of what makes stuy does is that you are collect the best raw talent from 80,000 8th graders.
You put them in a sink or swim genius factory ... and a lot of the kids sink.
They don't become failures but noone holds their hand.
They are responsible for their own development.

So they leave with self motivation and drive but the process can be uncomfortable.
They develop self motivation and drive because they spend 4 years on arrakis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sty? lots of mit and caltech and totally miserable asian students there. they cannot wait to get to college, any college.

it's Stuy, since you're so familiar with it. You can look at their instagram page. The kids do great, which isn't a big shock, although money is often a big consideration. Every major college visits the school - some make pretty crazy announcements. UChicago said their director of admissions personally handles the Stuy file and reads all the essays.

Admissions is always 100% honest. Everything they tell you is gospel. LOL. They are professional bs artists. They tell every crowd what they want to hear.

Agree. College admissions are the worst con artists. If they were publicly traded companies they should serve hard time at Club Fed for fraud.

Do all schools get things like this every year?

JUNIOR FAMILIES;
Our colleagues at the University of Chicago are hosting a virtual event exclusively for Stuyvesant High School juniors and their families on Wednesday, May XX, at 7:00pm. Juniors and parents/guardians who are registered on Naviance have received an emal with the registration link from Mr. Makris. If you did not receive it, you may contact [e-mail] or the college office for the link.

Hosted for Stuyvesant by Jim Nondorf, Dean of College Admissions and Financial Aid at the University of Chicago, we will discuss frequently asked questions about the highly selective admissions process, how students’ experiences might translate to their college applications, and also share some information about UChicago’s response to the pandemic. Stuyvesant HS and UChicago alumnus David Axelrod will also be making a special appearance.

Before registering, please consider the following:

How is this allowed in 2023?

Colleges visit high schools all the time.

They sure don’t host “exclusive virtual events” like what’s described in the email above.

Sure they do. Look at the above email. Have you never attended an elite private school? Forget virtual, top privates have admissions officers come visit in person. Perfectly common and normal. If you want that, either be rich or have a very smart kid.

P.S. these events don't mean the standards are lower for these schools, it just means they want to woo the qualified subset of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure what "problem" the OP was referring to, but I heard this year's college admission results are much worse comparing to prior years. These students were admitted to TJ before the "reform" FWIW.

College admission results have been more unpredictable i recent years for many reasons. It's not because of the high school someone goes to.

Actually going to TJ or highly ranked magnet or Big 3 prep is a DISadvantage. Colleges do a lot of economic balancing and geographic balancing. I would say it’s even more insidious than racial balancing.

You're delusional. Look at the big 3 college admissions and compare them to any random public school. Do you want to compare TJ results with all those super advantaged poor kids at MVHS?

The fact of life is that any bottom feeder at Big 3 is academically superior to the valedictorian of a “random” public HS.

Wow! No. That is absolutely not the case.

Yes it is. I was bottom of my TJ class and in middle school I was the best student by far. Perfect SOLs for 3 years and straight 100% in every class.

Your average NoVA high school would likely have several kids like you - very unlikely you would have been valedictorian in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sty? lots of mit and caltech and totally miserable asian students there. they cannot wait to get to college, any college.

it's Stuy, since you're so familiar with it. You can look at their instagram page. The kids do great, which isn't a big shock, although money is often a big consideration. Every major college visits the school - some make pretty crazy announcements. UChicago said their director of admissions personally handles the Stuy file and reads all the essays.

Admissions is always 100% honest. Everything they tell you is gospel. LOL. They are professional bs artists. They tell every crowd what they want to hear.

Agree. College admissions are the worst con artists. If they were publicly traded companies they should serve hard time at Club Fed for fraud.

Do all schools get things like this every year?

JUNIOR FAMILIES;
Our colleagues at the University of Chicago are hosting a virtual event exclusively for Stuyvesant High School juniors and their families on Wednesday, May XX, at 7:00pm. Juniors and parents/guardians who are registered on Naviance have received an emal with the registration link from Mr. Makris. If you did not receive it, you may contact [e-mail] or the college office for the link.

Hosted for Stuyvesant by Jim Nondorf, Dean of College Admissions and Financial Aid at the University of Chicago, we will discuss frequently asked questions about the highly selective admissions process, how students’ experiences might translate to their college applications, and also share some information about UChicago’s response to the pandemic. Stuyvesant HS and UChicago alumnus David Axelrod will also be making a special appearance.

Before registering, please consider the following:

How is this allowed in 2023?

Aww, look at all the UMC white families suddenly crying about unfairness!

Stuy is a special school with special kids, many of whom are poor or working class, have long commutes on subways to get to school, work their butts off, don't have nannies or tutors or a SAH parent, and you're going to complain that colleges are falling over themselves to recruit them?

Nobody seems to be falling over themselves to recruit kids at the top of their class stuck in podunk rural high schools. The message is that the big city kids who go to well-resourced prep & magnet schools get all the love.

No AO would make a visit to see a single Stuy kid, so no AO is going to go to a podunk high school to see the valedictorian. That doesn't mean the Stuy kid(s) are held to lower standards - quite the opposite, given that holistic admissions takes school resources into account

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sty? lots of mit and caltech and totally miserable asian students there. they cannot wait to get to college, any college.

it's Stuy, since you're so familiar with it. You can look at their instagram page. The kids do great, which isn't a big shock, although money is often a big consideration. Every major college visits the school - some make pretty crazy announcements. UChicago said their director of admissions personally handles the Stuy file and reads all the essays.

Admissions is always 100% honest. Everything they tell you is gospel. LOL. They are professional bs artists. They tell every crowd what they want to hear.

So .. I think we can agree, you are wrong about this and the AO does treat Stuy just a little differently.

The UChicago Director also comes to top privates in NYC. Nondorf came specifically to my kids' school and also said the same thing - he is the one who reads the essays and looks at their application.

*crickets*

Why does the “unfair treatment” of Stuy piss white people off but the $$$$ private schools don’t?

non-rich white people can see themselves as temporarily embarrassed rich white people with kids in private school who get top outcomes without putting in top effort, but not as temporarily embarrassed tiger Asian parents with kids at Stuy who only get top outcomes with top effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure what "problem" the OP was referring to, but I heard this year's college admission results are much worse comparing to prior years. These students were admitted to TJ before the "reform" FWIW.

College admission results have been more unpredictable i recent years for many reasons. It's not because of the high school someone goes to.

Actually going to TJ or highly ranked magnet or Big 3 prep is a DISadvantage. Colleges do a lot of economic balancing and geographic balancing. I would say it’s even more insidious than racial balancing.

You're delusional. Look at the big 3 college admissions and compare them to any random public school. Do you want to compare TJ results with all those super advantaged poor kids at MVHS?

The fact of life is that any bottom feeder at Big 3 is academically superior to the valedictorian of a “random” public HS.

Wow! No. That is absolutely not the case.

Yes it is. I was bottom of my TJ class and in middle school I was the best student by far. Perfect SOLs for 3 years and straight 100% in every class.

Your average NoVA high school would likely have several kids like you - very unlikely you would have been valedictorian in HS.

My Jewish white daughter went to Tj. No test prep, no parental hovering - just took the tests and went. Top score on the PSAT in the state. 13 5’s on AP exams. 2400 on the SAT’s. Finished Princeton in 3 years. I was a dumb jock in college so her going to Tj was merely a question of where she belonged and not my choice. It was up to her. I never asked for or looked at her grades since elementary school. She earned her own way. She would have done as well at the base school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think a lot of people get it. Even before the Harvard case more and more colleges were already getting away from using race as an explicit factor, but were trending towards “socioeconomic” factors in college admissions. Some state schools like UC and U. Mich were doing it because of states’ ban on AA. But there is no ban on using “socioeconomic” factors.

A friend of mine is a law firm partner in an upscale area of San Diego. His own family was first generation immigrants from Eastern Europe and he grew up in a not-so-good area of NYC. He’s the typical American Dream success story—pulled himself up from bootstraps, worked hard and got an education. But he’s the one who told me that UC looks at applicant’s zip code and practices economic and geographic discrimination, even for in-state. Why should children be punished because their parents are hard working, successful, and live in a nice neighborhood?

The more competitive UC schools like UCLA and Berkeley became more asian.
The overall percentage of blacks in the UC system did not really move much after California banned affirmative action. Half the black kids that would have gotten into Berkeley ended up at UCLA, the UCLA black kids ended up at UCSD and so on down the line and overall, the reduction at the UC/calstate level was a statistical insignificant.
This remains true to this day.
There is no real good proxy for race besides race.
You look for poverty and you pick up a bunch of immigrants.
You look for zip code and you will still find immigrants.
What really helped was going test optional and then test blind.
Once you remove objective indicators of merit, you have wide latitude to pick the students you want.
When they got rid of testing, things moved.

And even then it’s a fail. TO/Test blind did nothing for black Americans who are descendants of slaves, nor are first gen low income. It just boosts the numbers of rich private pre school students or students who are poor but from privileged education backgrounds. One of my biggest gripes with AA is it doesn’t help the people it’s designed for, but the Nigerian immigrant kids of surgeons and wealth managers.

African Americans who are descendants of slaves will do very well in college admissions if they go to school every day and do their homework during K-12. Anyone AA with a moderate test score (and let's face it, even a low test score) will be accepted at a school higher than they would achieve as a white student. There was no need to do TO. There is a need for kids to put in effort.