Has this board missed the huge contraction in tech?

[Anonymous]

The issue isn’t who’s smarter.

The issue is that the students majoring in English because they like the subject are doing something they like. The current supply of good English majors is so low that thise students will end up with a high level of resources and great opportunities.

Smart, enthusiastic CS majors who love what they’re doing will continue to flourish.

But CS departments are strained and probably aren’t doing a great job.

Many of the students coming into CS are just pretending to be interested in computers and tech. They’re interested in money, not intellectual puzzles. They’re not Rubik’s cube or Sudoku fans. They don’t care about topology, symbolic logic or information theory.

Those are the kids with parents who will only pay for a degree in CS or premed fields.

Those students might tough it out and get good grades, and even wiggle into FAANG jobs, but they’re likely to have problems with their careers and to choke FAANG.

Companies should promote work-life balance, but if people go into software development so they can work bankers’ hours, and they aren’t ever filled with a burning passion to do whatever it takes to figure something out or get a project done, because software is just a job for them, not a calling, then that’s what’s going to turn FAANG into the new S&Ls that died in the 1990s.

People who really care about tech will bubble up out of math, physics and philosophy departments and create some kind of new tech playgrounds that shut out the CS lemmings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't seem to understand that the kids that graduate from a CS program and typically much more intelligent that the others who didn't, especially considering the competition to get into those programs over the past several years. Do you think they won't be able to figure out their careers relative to someone who majored in, what, English?

Omg is this a joke? Like a caricature of how stupid people can be? You actually think a CS degree means someone is smarter than someone with an English degree? It's absurd that people think that all these code monkeys who can do math well are definitively smarter than people in other fields. The ignorance is really astounding.

NP. I was an English major and have learned CS on the job. CS is a very, very much more intellectually challenging field than English.

But that’s beside the point. PPP’s point was that with the intense competition for admission to CS schools, the average graduate tends to be a lot smarter than the average English or Education major because only top students are being admitted to CS programs. Sure, there are very bright people majoring in English, just like there are probably some great athletes pursuing curling. But those curlers are, on average, very much worse athletes than NBA players because the barrier to entry to become a curler is, like to become an English major, almost nonexistent.

I don't know where you did your English major, but from personal experience, an English major (at least at a top 10 USNWR school) is NOT less challenging intellectually than comp sci and, in fact, may be more. English is much more than just reading and writing.

DP but clearly this is the hill you want to die on. When I was in college, before CS was huge, so many freshmen dropped being pre-med or the engineering college because they couldn’t do decently in the courses. I couldn’t hack Chemistry and switched to Neuroscience. I personally have never met someone who had to drop a humanities major. But it’s fine, you can keep telling yourself English in harder than Computer Science if you want to.

And you can keep on listening in your own echo chamber. If you ever leave that chamber you will realize that things are seldom so black and white. But people like you go thru life never evolving. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't seem to understand that the kids that graduate from a CS program and typically much more intelligent that the others who didn't, especially considering the competition to get into those programs over the past several years. Do you think they won't be able to figure out their careers relative to someone who majored in, what, English?

Omg is this a joke? Like a caricature of how stupid people can be? You actually think a CS degree means someone is smarter than someone with an English degree? It's absurd that people think that all these code monkeys who can do math well are definitively smarter than people in other fields. The ignorance is really astounding.

NP. I was an English major and have learned CS on the job. CS is a very, very much more intellectually challenging field than English.

But that’s beside the point. PPP’s point was that with the intense competition for admission to CS schools, the average graduate tends to be a lot smarter than the average English or Education major because only top students are being admitted to CS programs. Sure, there are very bright people majoring in English, just like there are probably some great athletes pursuing curling. But those curlers are, on average, very much worse athletes than NBA players because the barrier to entry to become a curler is, like to become an English major, almost nonexistent.

NP. I’m a CS major (from MIT no less). I don’t think I’m smarter than my sister who majored in English. The same brain/personality quirks that inspired you (and her) to major in English are why you found CS harder probably just as the brain/personality quirks that make me good as CS caused me to struggle in English and have to retake my foreign language classes twice to actually learn anything. Declaring subjects universely “hard” or “easy” is silly.

I agree that people are wired to do well in say English vs. CS/Math and vice versa. However, I think when the discussion is whether a subject is harder or not boils down to whether someone can at least produce something passable in one area vs. maybe not even understanding much of anything in another.

As an example, I tried to take a higher level math course in college for which I qualified based on prior coursework...and it is was as though I stepped into a different world. I sat at the first class while a professor wrote a massive equation and to me it was just a series of letters and numbers...I couldn't even begin the answer the first set of problems...I didn't even understand what they were aksing. It might as well have been asked in Chinese it was so foreign to me. I knew after the first class I needed to drop and pick something else.

Now, I probably would not have received a stellar grade on some upper level English classes, however, I doubt I would not even understand how the answer the question. The English class likely had more work, however, more work does not mean more difficult (relatively speaking). Again, the math class would be the equivalent of taking an English class and the teacher said...you have to learn and answer in 8th century English vernacular...BTW, I am not going to teach you the 8th century vernacular, you are going to have to learn it on your own just to comprehend and answer the 1st assignment.

+1

I don't think people in a certain degree are necessarily any "smarter" than others, but CS/Engr was 100x more difficult than English at my top 10 school. I wrote more per semester than my English major roommate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't seem to understand that the kids that graduate from a CS program and typically much more intelligent that the others who didn't, especially considering the competition to get into those programs over the past several years. Do you think they won't be able to figure out their careers relative to someone who majored in, what, English?

Omg is this a joke? Like a caricature of how stupid people can be? You actually think a CS degree means someone is smarter than someone with an English degree? It's absurd that people think that all these code monkeys who can do math well are definitively smarter than people in other fields. The ignorance is really astounding.

NP. I was an English major and have learned CS on the job. CS is a very, very much more intellectually challenging field than English.

But that’s beside the point. PPP’s point was that with the intense competition for admission to CS schools, the average graduate tends to be a lot smarter than the average English or Education major because only top students are being admitted to CS programs. Sure, there are very bright people majoring in English, just like there are probably some great athletes pursuing curling. But those curlers are, on average, very much worse athletes than NBA players because the barrier to entry to become a curler is, like to become an English major, almost nonexistent.

Saying you are learning cs doesn’t mean much as there are so many aspects to it from basic it jobs to very technical.

[Anonymous]

Encouraging my kid to study “traditional engineering” ( semi mfg, mech, chemical, electrical, industrial). Thats where the real demand is going to be in next 5-10 years - and its way more interesting than coding, imo.

The way I see it is coding skills are like reading - people expect u to be able to code. Do a minor in CS!

[Anonymous]

Didn't miss it.
Still the best and million times better than humanities.

You can have your kid go to plumbing school if you think that's better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't miss it.
Still the best and million times better than humanities.

You can have your kid go to plumbing school if you think that's better.

Bet the plumber's doing better than you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Encouraging my kid to study “traditional engineering” ( semi mfg, mech, chemical, electrical, industrial). Thats where the real demand is going to be in next 5-10 years - and its way more interesting than coding, imo.

The way I see it is coding skills are like reading - people expect u to be able to code. Do a minor in CS!

There is more to CS and these jobs than coding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are engineers going back to school for CS degrees.

CS majors will still be in high demand and command good salaries. It doesn't necessarily have to be FAANG.

Even a CS graduate working for one of the many defense contractors in the DMV area will do well.

But as good as the last couple years? No.

again, still better than English majors, or most majors. Top paying jobs are all engineers.

“All” engineers? I am quite sure you’re wrong about that. I’d rather be a liberal arts major on track to be an MD at a major Wall Street bank (like my BIL now making 7 figures) than a CS major working on AI at a tech company.

Yup totally agree with this. Bankers are rainmakers even at middle market and boutique banks, MDs can make several million a year. With some notable exceptions, no engineer will do that on current income. On options and RSUs, perhaps - but then that’s the lottery ticket aspect. Pick the right momentum stage startup and it becomes a winner. I know plenty for him it happened but many more for whom it didn’t

Prob for bankers - burnout is high. Your 20s are lost to making pitch books on overnight and weekend wild goose chases. And so those who make it through that, many become insufferable in their 40s

IB is a miserable life. You sell your soul for $. With tech, not as much.

+100000

Lots of tech jobs are 9-5 with WFH

+1000

And not all engineering/CS are desiring the "elite/premium" jobs. Every company has engineers/cs people---those jobs will always be needed. Many do not require 80+ hour work weeks and still get paid well for their skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are engineers going back to school for CS degrees.

CS majors will still be in high demand and command good salaries. It doesn't necessarily have to be FAANG.

Even a CS graduate working for one of the many defense contractors in the DMV area will do well.

But as good as the last couple years? No.

again, still better than English majors, or most majors. Top paying jobs are all engineers.

“All” engineers? I am quite sure you’re wrong about that. I’d rather be a liberal arts major on track to be an MD at a major Wall Street bank (like my BIL now making 7 figures) than a CS major working on AI at a tech company.

Yup totally agree with this. Bankers are rainmakers even at middle market and boutique banks, MDs can make several million a year. With some notable exceptions, no engineer will do that on current income. On options and RSUs, perhaps - but then that’s the lottery ticket aspect. Pick the right momentum stage startup and it becomes a winner. I know plenty for him it happened but many more for whom it didn’t

Prob for bankers - burnout is high. Your 20s are lost to making pitch books on overnight and weekend wild goose chases. And so those who make it through that, many become insufferable in their 40s

IB is a miserable life. You sell your soul for $. With tech, not as much.

+100000

Lots of tech jobs are 9-5 with WFH

+1000

And not all engineering/CS are desiring the "elite/premium" jobs. Every company has engineers/cs people---those jobs will always be needed. Many do not require 80+ hour work weeks and still get paid well for their skills.

But for how long? That's the question. I think the tech layoffs had a lot to do with AI --this was just their chance to do it with cover of a recession. We're not there yet, but I think we will quickly go from underproducing CS majors to over-producing them. I think people should major in the area they are really good in and then be strategic about how to make it work career-wise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are engineers going back to school for CS degrees.

CS majors will still be in high demand and command good salaries. It doesn't necessarily have to be FAANG.

Even a CS graduate working for one of the many defense contractors in the DMV area will do well.

But as good as the last couple years? No.

again, still better than English majors, or most majors. Top paying jobs are all engineers.

“All” engineers? I am quite sure you’re wrong about that. I’d rather be a liberal arts major on track to be an MD at a major Wall Street bank (like my BIL now making 7 figures) than a CS major working on AI at a tech company.

Yup totally agree with this. Bankers are rainmakers even at middle market and boutique banks, MDs can make several million a year. With some notable exceptions, no engineer will do that on current income. On options and RSUs, perhaps - but then that’s the lottery ticket aspect. Pick the right momentum stage startup and it becomes a winner. I know plenty for him it happened but many more for whom it didn’t

Prob for bankers - burnout is high. Your 20s are lost to making pitch books on overnight and weekend wild goose chases. And so those who make it through that, many become insufferable in their 40s

IB is a miserable life. You sell your soul for $. With tech, not as much.

+100000

Lots of tech jobs are 9-5 with WFH

+1000

And not all engineering/CS are desiring the "elite/premium" jobs. Every company has engineers/cs people---those jobs will always be needed. Many do not require 80+ hour work weeks and still get paid well for their skills.

But for how long? That's the question. I think the tech layoffs had a lot to do with AI --this was just their chance to do it with cover of a recession. We're not there yet, but I think we will quickly go from underproducing CS majors to over-producing them. I think people should major in the area they are really good in and then be strategic about how to make it work career-wise.

AI maybe in 30 years but not now. There are lots of tech jobs that need people do do. Tech isn't just coding. And, they layoffs had nothing to do with AI but clearly you aren't in one of those tech jobs or in that situation. Our friends who were just laid off were laid off because of other reasons. You need ot follow more closely. And, there are thousands of different jobs in tech. Its not just one job.

[Anonymous]

How do computer engineers fair in the AI change over?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Encouraging my kid to study “traditional engineering” ( semi mfg, mech, chemical, electrical, industrial). Thats where the real demand is going to be in next 5-10 years - and its way more interesting than coding, imo.

The way I see it is coding skills are like reading - people expect u to be able to code. Do a minor in CS!

You are absolutely clueless if you equate coding with CS. Idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People don't seem to understand that the kids that graduate from a CS program and typically much more intelligent that the others who didn't, especially considering the competition to get into those programs over the past several years. Do you think they won't be able to figure out their careers relative to someone who majored in, what, English?

So much wrong with this...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do computer engineers fair in the AI change over?

What changeover? You realize all of CS is not "computer engineers?"