Was your competitive kid get shut out from all top 40 schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

You have a deep misunderstanding about the relationship between major and jobs. The vast majority of people do not get jobs connected to their major--and often switch jobs many times in their lives. The college education develops broad skills, you become marketable in many fields by figuring out ways to apply those broad skills and deepen your expertise.

+1 My company's creative director, who oversees the design of our website and apps, has an English degree. At my previous company, the person who led the large events business had been a dance major.

This is what you get with a degree in english. Lack basic math reasoning skills. Lacking elementary statistics knowledge.

And runs entire departments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Could we stick with original question please?

Was your strong applicant shut out?

(I know all the rest about high grades/scores not being enough, legacy and money talking, private school being viewed as a privilege etc, etc, etc). That has ALL been hashed to death).

Was your kid shut out?

Thank you.

Try to reframe your language. It’s not healthy. Why are you using the term “shut out”?

ok, "not admitted to any top 40 schools".

Did they apply to all 40 of them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Could we stick with original question please?

Was your strong applicant shut out?

(I know all the rest about high grades/scores not being enough, legacy and money talking, private school being viewed as a privilege etc, etc, etc). That has ALL been hashed to death).

Was your kid shut out?

Thank you.

Yes, mine was; however, DC applied as a music major, which has an even lower admit rate than the overall admit rates at the schools. DC was waitlisted at one T40 school.

Where else did they apply? Interested in music

They did not apply to any conservatories — they wanted to double major, so they applied to Carnegie Mellon, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and schools of that caliber. They got auditions at some of them, but were ultimately rejected (many of these schools choose just a few in each instrument, and if you have a popular instrument (i.e. is a soprano vocalist), then it’s even more competitive; this year, I think oboists were highly sought after). Northwestern, for example, has 400 undergrads in the entire school of music (i.e. across all instruments), so you can imagine how competitive it is. The only music schools my DC got into were their in-state music schools. This whole process made them rethink their future in music (the audition process is grueling in terms of travel, preparation, and missing school for he auditions when you kid is taking a million AP courses).

Thanks. Good luck to your child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If people from non T15 can become NASA engineers and astronauts, and gasp.. even some CEOs, I'm pretty sure the "elite" universities don't have a stranglehold on that pipeline. Plus elite u's produced Trump and GWB, so all that tells me is if your mommy or daddy had a ton of money, but your dumb as a rock, you can get into an elite school and become a CEO or even POTUS.

"even some CEOs, I'm pretty sure the "elite" universities don't have a stranglehold on that pipeline" yeah no one said that, but in your haste to demonstrate that you don't read well, you came up with this. Do you want the remedial version of what was said, so you can keep up? Or do want to hide in the book and hope no one calls on you?

Here's what you said:

" If you want to be at a school in which people are groomed to run corporations and institutions, make lots of bank in consulting, or become staff writers for cultural magazines, go to a top 15" .

In your haste to be obnoxiously elitist, you neglected to explain or even understand that people who are "groomed" to run corporations largely do so not because of merit but because of connections and being in the good ol' boys network - family legacy not only in corporate America but also at the Ivies.

Additionally, many CEOs didn't go to T15.

But sure, hide behind your obnoxious elitism.

And I fixed the quote for you. You're welcome.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimberlywhitler/2019/09/07/a-new-study-on-fortune-100-ceos-what-undergraduate-institutions-did-they-attend/?sh=706efe333308

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/where-the-top-fortune-500-ceos-attended-college

mix of ivy and not.

If you plan on going to graduate school, it doesn't matter where you went for undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

You have a deep misunderstanding about the relationship between major and jobs. The vast majority of people do not get jobs connected to their major--and often switch jobs many times in their lives. The college education develops broad skills, you become marketable in many fields by figuring out ways to apply those broad skills and deepen your expertise.

You are like the leaches who take up a government job, do nothing, not good for any real productive work and pontificate that history and dance classes suffice.

You think everyone graduating from CS is out there doing productive work and contributing to society? Do you know how many BS jobs exist in the private sector? DH and I are both in "productive fields" (he is in CS) and your argument makes no sense. I am actually happy that I did my undergrad in humanities and then went on to the more specialized/concrete/"productive" field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Could we stick with original question please?

Was your strong applicant shut out?

(I know all the rest about high grades/scores not being enough, legacy and money talking, private school being viewed as a privilege etc, etc, etc). That has ALL been hashed to death).

Was your kid shut out?

Thank you.

Try to reframe your language. It’s not healthy. Why are you using the term “shut out”?

+1

Eye roll. This phrase is used all over DCUM all the time. You're just being nitpicky - it's an online forum, not a literary essay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:is Top 40 a thing?

I see schools like URochester, UWisconsin, UTexas Austin, bunch of 2nd tier UC schools.

Agree. It is not clear as to what schools are in the Top 40. Are any LACs considered Top 40 schools ?

And admission standards differ. Univ. of California admissions--several Top 40 National Universities are U of Calif. schools--are different compared to privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not mine but she has a couple of friends that did. All kids that were taking post MVC math, post AP science. One started a charity for SN kids in the sport she participates in. Another, was a TA for the neuroscience class this year, and had done research for 3 summers. All high test scores and GPAs. And they are coming from one of the top private schools in the US.

That is seen as a privilege in admissions.

Not sure that tracks. My child attends one of the top private schools in the country and more than half the senior class is attending top 40 schools and more than 20% are going to Ivies. There certainly weren’t any shutouts of students of the caliber mentioned here.

Really all of that is seen as having significant privilege. The neuroscience research, the charity, the private school—all require money, parental involvement, connections

This is school that costs less than $30K. The kid was a TA for the neuroscience class at the school.

I have never heard of a high school having TAs for courses. I don't think this is as impressive as you think it is. As for the neuro research, was it published? Did the person win any awards - state or national? Or did they hang out with their parents' friends' friend at a hospital and d*ck around in an unpaid internship for nine hours a week over three months during the summer to boost their science/premed credentials? Also, a top private school that costs less than $30K. Where do you live? I'm sending my kid to preK at a top US private school and it's 44K not including the 4K deposit. I'll move right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

Plenty of history and government majors work in business. I'm one of them. Relax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest is only 14 and not even in high school yet but I have heard of kids who seem perfect on paper get shut out.

I actually started a thread yesterday about parent involvement in starting non profits and businesses for their kids to look good for college admissions. I am not confident my kids can get admitted into a top college in today’s climate. It seems you need something unique and special. My kids are smart, play multiple sports well and are just your typical well redounded UMC kid. I’m still undecided if I want to jump through hoops to help my children have impressive sounding fluff for their college admissions or just let them be (likely not do anything especially impressive besides typical school clubs and sports).

For your sanity and theirs-let them be.

Colleges can read between the lines when it comes to parental involvement. If your kids play multiple sports are they good enough at any of those sports to get recruited D1 or D3? Unless your kid is getting national awards for their academics and the valedictorian, I would highly recommend having them specialize in the sport that they are most likely to get recruited for (assuming they are above average right now). Your kid can get into a good college without a hook (and I'm not even talking about legacy, who knows what will happen with that) but it's really a coin toss. A hook + ED application will help a lot. Help them get better at the sport they are most likely to get recruited in instead of helping them start a nonprofit that will probably do nothing for your community (it's also hard to start a nonprofit) or if you really want to go the nonprofit route, have them organize a race or something like that to benefit a nonprofit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC's latest report card shows wgpa 4.92, will probably graduate with 4.95.

uwgpa 4.0
magnet
1580 SAT (800 math)

Shut out T40.

DD had 13 APs and scores all 4s and 5s
wgpa of 3.8
1500 SAT (800 reading — or whatever it’s officially called)
Eagle Scout (first girl in her troop)
National awards and scholarships in specific EC

Waitlisted at 4 top 20 schools. In at school ranked about 50ish and will go there.

What was the unweighted gpa? That may be what got her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

You have a deep misunderstanding about the relationship between major and jobs. The vast majority of people do not get jobs connected to their major--and often switch jobs many times in their lives. The college education develops broad skills, you become marketable in many fields by figuring out ways to apply those broad skills and deepen your expertise.

Major is really most important if a student isn't summa cum laude, doesn't have good summer internship experience, and/or graduates in a down market. It's hard to predict any of these things (a little easier to predict the second) so if possible, students should hedge if going the LA route and do a double major in Econ and something they love that isn't as "practical" (Art History) or they should major in something more practical such as Econ but take a bunch of classes in other areas that they are interested in. If your kid absolutely cannot imagine a scenario where they do not do a single major in Dance or Art History they better work those internships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC's latest report card shows wgpa 4.92, will probably graduate with 4.95.

uwgpa 4.0
magnet
1580 SAT (800 math)

Shut out T40.

DD had 13 APs and scores all 4s and 5s
wgpa of 3.8
1500 SAT (800 reading — or whatever it’s officially called)
Eagle Scout (first girl in her troop)
National awards and scholarships in specific EC

Waitlisted at 4 top 20 schools. In at school ranked about 50ish and will go there.

What was the unweighted gpa? That may be what got her.

All those stats are great, except the GPA which is low-average. That's what kicks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Could we stick with original question please?

Was your strong applicant shut out?

(I know all the rest about high grades/scores not being enough, legacy and money talking, private school being viewed as a privilege etc, etc, etc). That has ALL been hashed to death).

Was your kid shut out?

Thank you.

Yes, mine was; however, DC applied as a music major, which has an even lower admit rate than the overall admit rates at the schools. DC was waitlisted at one T40 school.

Where else did they apply? Interested in music

They did not apply to any conservatories — they wanted to double major, so they applied to Carnegie Mellon, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and schools of that caliber. They got auditions at some of them, but were ultimately rejected (many of these schools choose just a few in each instrument, and if you have a popular instrument (i.e. is a soprano vocalist), then it’s even more competitive; this year, I think oboists were highly sought after). Northwestern, for example, has 400 undergrads in the entire school of music (i.e. across all instruments), so you can imagine how competitive it is. The only music schools my DC got into were their in-state music schools. This whole process made them rethink their future in music (the audition process is grueling in terms of travel, preparation, and missing school for he auditions when you kid is taking a million AP courses).

Thanks. Good luck to your child

Thank you! DC got into an OOS public and will be studying something other than music, but will also consider a music minor and/or participating in the ensembles (which you can do as a non-music major). I think it will be the best of both worlds. 😊

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

You have a deep misunderstanding about the relationship between major and jobs. The vast majority of people do not get jobs connected to their major--and often switch jobs many times in their lives. The college education develops broad skills, you become marketable in many fields by figuring out ways to apply those broad skills and deepen your expertise.

Major is really most important if a student isn't summa cum laude, doesn't have good summer internship experience, and/or graduates in a down market. It's hard to predict any of these things (a little easier to predict the second) so if possible, students should hedge if going the LA route and do a double major in Econ and something they love that isn't as "practical" (Art History) or they should major in something more practical such as Econ but take a bunch of classes in other areas that they are interested in. If your kid absolutely cannot imagine a scenario where they do not do a single major in Dance or Art History they better work those internships.

Econ isn't that practical. My advice is if you're not into a highly marketable major, to major in whatever you enjoy that you can get a good GPA in and then acquire a practical skill that is in demand in the moment, get an internship or volunteer using that practical skill, and then use that to get your first job. Worked for me, worked for my kids.