Was your competitive kid get shut out from all top 40 schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

You have a deep misunderstanding about the relationship between major and jobs. The vast majority of people do not get jobs connected to their major--and often switch jobs many times in their lives. The college education develops broad skills, you become marketable in many fields by figuring out ways to apply those broad skills and deepen your expertise.

+1 My company's creative director, who oversees the design of our website and apps, has an English degree. At my previous company, the person who led the large events business had been a dance major.

Dp.. that's awesome, but english majors are one of the most likely to regret their major.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/12/the-top-10-most-regretted-college-majors.html

But regretted less than those that pursued pre-med or biology or marketing management. Doesn't quite fit the narrative you're spinning.

? I wasn't spinning anything. Just pointing out that a bit over half of the English majors regret that major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

...preferred application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

You have a deep misunderstanding about the relationship between major and jobs. The vast majority of people do not get jobs connected to their major--and often switch jobs many times in their lives. The college education develops broad skills, you become marketable in many fields by figuring out ways to apply those broad skills and deepen your expertise.

+1 My company's creative director, who oversees the design of our website and apps, has an English degree. At my previous company, the person who led the large events business had been a dance major.

I’m a music major and work for a tech start up. There is room for many types of people.

My kid's graduating this year as a poli sci major and just got lined up with a great job not connected to his major. He went to a good school, did well, and interviews well. The data analysis, reading, writing he did in school were enough for his employers. It's not STEM/CS or bust.

At elite schools in particular -- presumably the kinds of schools our high-stats CS applicants are "shut out of" -- majors do not dictate post-grad employment. Do you really think Yale engineering majors want to be bench engineers at some massive corporation, building highway overpasses? Do we really think everyone in finance did an econ degree? Let's be serious. Indeed, there are lots of engineering grads working in finance, and many non-STEM majors working in tech on the management side.

The trade school model simply doesn't work for elite universities. Go to Purdue for CS -- already quite competitive -- if that's what you want. If you want to be at a school in which people are groomed to run corporations and institutions, make lots of bank in consulting, or become staff writers for cultural magazines, go to a top 15. Just know the game you are playing and stop whining because you don't.

If people from non T15 can become NASA engineers and astronauts, and gasp.. even some CEOs, I'm pretty sure the "elite" universities don't have a stranglehold on that pipeline. Plus elite u's produced Trump and GWB, so all that tells me is if your mommy or daddy had a ton of money, but your dumb as a rock, you can get into an elite school and become a CEO or even POTUS.

[Anonymous]

If people from non T15 can become NASA engineers and astronauts, and gasp.. even some CEOs, I'm pretty sure the "elite" universities don't have a stranglehold on that pipeline. Plus elite u's produced Trump and GWB, so all that tells me is if your mommy or daddy had a ton of money, but your dumb as a rock, you can get into an elite school and become a CEO or even POTUS.

"even some CEOs, I'm pretty sure the "elite" universities don't have a stranglehold on that pipeline" yeah no one said that, but in your haste to demonstrate that you don't read well, you came up with this. Do you want the remedial version of what was said, so you can keep up? Or do want to hide in the book and hope no one calls on you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

You have a deep misunderstanding about the relationship between major and jobs. The vast majority of people do not get jobs connected to their major--and often switch jobs many times in their lives. The college education develops broad skills, you become marketable in many fields by figuring out ways to apply those broad skills and deepen your expertise.

You can be a history major, apply that skill broadly and you should be able to design an interstellar nuclear propelled spacecraft.

Study French and apply that to designing a hypersonic missile. Really just a matter of applying French broadly.

No need to study nuclear engineering or fluid mechanics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

You have a deep misunderstanding about the relationship between major and jobs. The vast majority of people do not get jobs connected to their major--and often switch jobs many times in their lives. The college education develops broad skills, you become marketable in many fields by figuring out ways to apply those broad skills and deepen your expertise.

You are like the leaches who take up a government job, do nothing, not good for any real productive work and pontificate that history and dance classes suffice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top colleges do not admit based on “stats.” Top “stats” are necessary but FAR FROM SUFFICIENT to get into a T40.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

You have a deep misunderstanding about the relationship between major and jobs. The vast majority of people do not get jobs connected to their major--and often switch jobs many times in their lives. The college education develops broad skills, you become marketable in many fields by figuring out ways to apply those broad skills and deepen your expertise.

+1 My company's creative director, who oversees the design of our website and apps, has an English degree. At my previous company, the person who led the large events business had been a dance major.

This is what you get with a degree in english. Lack basic math reasoning skills. Lacking elementary statistics knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Could we stick with original question please?

Was your strong applicant shut out?

(I know all the rest about high grades/scores not being enough, legacy and money talking, private school being viewed as a privilege etc, etc, etc). That has ALL been hashed to death).

Was your kid shut out?

Thank you.

Yes, mine was; however, DC applied as a music major, which has an even lower admit rate than the overall admit rates at the schools. DC was waitlisted at one T40 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Could we stick with original question please?

Was your strong applicant shut out?

(I know all the rest about high grades/scores not being enough, legacy and money talking, private school being viewed as a privilege etc, etc, etc). That has ALL been hashed to death).

Was your kid shut out?

Thank you.

Yes, mine was; however, DC applied as a music major, which has an even lower admit rate than the overall admit rates at the schools. DC was waitlisted at one T40 school.

Where else did they apply? Interested in music

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Could we stick with original question please?

Was your strong applicant shut out?

(I know all the rest about high grades/scores not being enough, legacy and money talking, private school being viewed as a privilege etc, etc, etc). That has ALL been hashed to death).

Was your kid shut out?

Thank you.

Yes, mine was; however, DC applied as a music major, which has an even lower admit rate than the overall admit rates at the schools. DC was waitlisted at one T40 school.

Where else did they apply? Interested in music

They did not apply to any conservatories — they wanted to double major, so they applied to Carnegie Mellon, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and schools of that caliber. They got auditions at some of them, but were ultimately rejected (many of these schools choose just a few in each instrument, and if you have a popular instrument (i.e. is a soprano vocalist), then it’s even more competitive; this year, I think oboists were highly sought after). Northwestern, for example, has 400 undergrads in the entire school of music (i.e. across all instruments), so you can imagine how competitive it is. The only music schools my DC got into were their in-state music schools. This whole process made them rethink their future in music (the audition process is grueling in terms of travel, preparation, and missing school for he auditions when you kid is taking a million AP courses).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

yeah, and universities are saying to those applicants that they don't want to be trade schools. I suppose if tech bros ran the world we'd bulldoze Carnegie Hall and the Met and mine bitcoins in their ruins but others have decided, for now, that a society in which humanistic concerns are not subjected entirely to the career aspirations of 18 year old children is the one they want to live in.

the fact of the matter is that universities serve a social function by NOT transforming themselves into trade schools in response to whatever "applicants" say they want. I fully expect them to be destroyed in the next few decades in favor of a philistine's vision of what's useful but in the meantime enroll your kids in dance or fencing because they're not getting in otherwise.

You make excellent points.

[Anonymous]

is Top 40 a thing?

I see schools like URochester, UWisconsin, UTexas Austin, bunch of 2nd tier UC schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied for computer science. He did not get in to any top 50 in early action round, and I got the impression from these type of forums that regular decision was even more competitive. However, one top 40 deferral turned into an acceptance, and he was also accepted regular decision at a top 50. I would not say that I was worried at the time of the early action round, because it may not have been top 50, but he was accepted for an honors program and a respectable computer science department where he could have been happy too.

CS is a much harder major to get into than basically any other major. When people talk about admissions to a given school, the acceptance rates for different majors can be night and day.

This. Threads like this one are so misleading, even pointless. People: do some arithmetic. The demand for spots in CS across the country, in state flagships and in top privates, is insane relative to the number of spots available. What is more, top 20 schools do not want a campus full of career-oriented programmers. They want dancers, comparative literature majors, physicists, yes even gender studies majors. My son's close friend has mediocre grades, a 1550 and no ECs. Applied as a music major -- he is not that good, to be honest -- and was admitted to a number of schools (like Vanderbilt) to which he would not have had a chance in hell to be admitted in a more competitive major. Universities want to be universities, not CS coding camps.

Try to understand how a university/college works, and understand the game you are playing. Act accordingly. And no, your high stats kid does not deserve to be at Cornell or Rice. They applied in an ultracompetitive field and lost the spot to someone with a better application.

Yep because the country needs more dancers with $300k in loans

The world actually does pay some dancers and needs them. It’s mean to them, but it doesn’t need them.

It doesn’t need a lot of bright but soul dead CS drones who have no interest in CS but major in it, anyway, because that’s the only way Mummy and Daddy would pay for college. Those kids are in trouble.

There is nowhere near the demand for the number of graduates with soft majors that are churned out every years. Unless the school is HYPSM, all a large english/dance/history department does is ensure employment for history professors and applicants for law schools (because the one thing we need is more lawyers). Meanwhile applicants are clearly telling schools that there is more demand for business, engineering, computer science because students know that they will need to earn a living especially if they graduate with massive debt

You have a deep misunderstanding about the relationship between major and jobs. The vast majority of people do not get jobs connected to their major--and often switch jobs many times in their lives. The college education develops broad skills, you become marketable in many fields by figuring out ways to apply those broad skills and deepen your expertise.

You are like the leaches who take up a government job, do nothing, not good for any real productive work and pontificate that history and dance classes suffice.

But we know how to spell “leeches”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If people from non T15 can become NASA engineers and astronauts, and gasp.. even some CEOs, I'm pretty sure the "elite" universities don't have a stranglehold on that pipeline. Plus elite u's produced Trump and GWB, so all that tells me is if your mommy or daddy had a ton of money, but your dumb as a rock, you can get into an elite school and become a CEO or even POTUS.

"even some CEOs, I'm pretty sure the "elite" universities don't have a stranglehold on that pipeline" yeah no one said that, but in your haste to demonstrate that you don't read well, you came up with this. Do you want the remedial version of what was said, so you can keep up? Or do want to hide in the book and hope no one calls on you?

Here's what you said:

" If you want to be at a school in which people are groomed to run corporations and institutions, make lots of bank in consulting, or become staff writers for cultural magazines, go to a top 15" .

In your haste to be obnoxiously elitist, you neglected to explain or even understand that people who are "groomed" to run corporations largely do so not because of merit but because of connections and being in the good ol' boys network - family legacy not only in corporate America but also at the Ivies.

Additionally, many CEOs didn't go to T15.

But sure, hide behind your obnoxious elitism.

And I fixed the quote for you. You're welcome.