Anonymous wrote:This thread should be a HUGE warning for echo chamber democrats in this area.
There are a lot of people like me that:
- Voted for Obama twice
- Voted for Hillary
- Voted for Joe (and rejoiced when he won)
- On the fence about voting for Joe, and may just sit it out if Trump gets the R nom.
Putting your head in the sand is a bad strategy
Really, there are not a lot of people like this at all. Assuming you’re even in being truthful (which I doubt), what you are describing is an extremely rare, fringe thought process. Basically, you would be a freak if you behaved this way. Normal people aren’t doing the same.
The "tell" is that these folks are never able to really articulate what they don't like about Biden. There's some dog whistle stuff about "wokeness" but no one will say what that means or how Biden fits into it. He's not even that "woke" by progressive standards. He's your normal centrist Democrat governing from the middle.
I'll tell you.
Generally, I feel worse off today than I was when he took office.
- He handled the pandemic poorly (as did Trump, fwiw)
- Poor execution of withdrawal from Afghanistan
- Inflation
- Failing (and arguably allowing) to protect Title IX from being taken over by biological men. This is a personal one as I have a DD collegiate athlete.
- His age.
There's more. Look, I hope its not Biden/Trump again, bc I'll have to hold my nose and vote for him.
But his first term does not warrant a second
All of this. And more.
I’ll add immigration. He has done nothing to address our immigration woes. And as a Montgomery County resident, I witness first-hand, on a daily basis how uncontrolled immigration has negatively impacted my family, my neighborhood and my kid’s schools.
Off topic but interesting.
Please make a top post explaining how immigration has hurt MCPS.
Anonymous wrote:This thread should be a HUGE warning for echo chamber democrats in this area.
There are a lot of people like me that:
- Voted for Obama twice
- Voted for Hillary
- Voted for Joe (and rejoiced when he won)
- On the fence about voting for Joe, and may just sit it out if Trump gets the R nom.
Putting your head in the sand is a bad strategy
Really, there are not a lot of people like this at all. Assuming you’re even in being truthful (which I doubt), what you are describing is an extremely rare, fringe thought process. Basically, you would be a freak if you behaved this way. Normal people aren’t doing the same.
The "tell" is that these folks are never able to really articulate what they don't like about Biden. There's some dog whistle stuff about "wokeness" but no one will say what that means or how Biden fits into it. He's not even that "woke" by progressive standards. He's your normal centrist Democrat governing from the middle.
I'll tell you.
Generally, I feel worse off today than I was when he took office.
- He handled the pandemic poorly (as did Trump, fwiw)
- Poor execution of withdrawal from Afghanistan
- Inflation
- Failing (and arguably allowing) to protect Title IX from being taken over by biological men. This is a personal one as I have a DD collegiate athlete.
- His age.
There's more. Look, I hope its not Biden/Trump again, bc I'll have to hold my nose and vote for him.
But his first term does not warrant a second
All of this. And more.
I’ll add immigration. He has done nothing to address our immigration woes. And as a Montgomery County resident, I witness first-hand, on a daily basis how uncontrolled immigration has negatively impacted my family, my neighborhood and my kid’s schools.
Off topic but interesting.
Please make a top post explaining how immigration has hurt MCPS.
Anonymous wrote:This thread should be a HUGE warning for echo chamber democrats in this area.
There are a lot of people like me that:
- Voted for Obama twice
- Voted for Hillary
- Voted for Joe (and rejoiced when he won)
- On the fence about voting for Joe, and may just sit it out if Trump gets the R nom.
Putting your head in the sand is a bad strategy
Really, there are not a lot of people like this at all. Assuming you’re even in being truthful (which I doubt), what you are describing is an extremely rare, fringe thought process. Basically, you would be a freak if you behaved this way. Normal people aren’t doing the same.
The "tell" is that these folks are never able to really articulate what they don't like about Biden. There's some dog whistle stuff about "wokeness" but no one will say what that means or how Biden fits into it. He's not even that "woke" by progressive standards. He's your normal centrist Democrat governing from the middle.
I'll tell you.
Generally, I feel worse off today than I was when he took office.
- He handled the pandemic poorly (as did Trump, fwiw)
- Poor execution of withdrawal from Afghanistan
- Inflation
- Failing (and arguably allowing) to protect Title IX from being taken over by biological men. This is a personal one as I have a DD collegiate athlete.
- His age.
There's more. Look, I hope its not Biden/Trump again, bc I'll have to hold my nose and vote for him.
But his first term does not warrant a second
All of this. And more.
I’ll add immigration. He has done nothing to address our immigration woes. And as a Montgomery County resident, I witness first-hand, on a daily basis how uncontrolled immigration has negatively impacted my family, my neighborhood and my kid’s schools.
Off topic but interesting.
Please make a top post explaining how immigration has hurt MCPS.
Let’s clarify that the influx of undocumented immigrants (from all over the world) has most definitely had a negative impact on MCPS.
And let’s also clarify that I support legal immigration. But I wholeheartedly oppose the progressive, liberal policies that encourage more undocumented immigrants to come to the US.
Anonymous wrote:Looking for diversity of thought at mcps schools. All the high schools have a young dems group. Which have young independent and young republicans too?
Have you met Gen Z
+1
Gen Z is concerned about climate change, gun safety, and equal rights for all persons. If they are active at all in politics, they are working directly on issues they care about. They are not hanging out in “Young ______” clubs mimicking mommy and daddy’s ideas.
What would Young Republicans care about?
* Tax cuts for billionaires and powerful corporations? * Ways to erode the middle class more quickly?
* Reset social progress to 1950?
Hilarious. I live in Montgomery County and have watched the Democrat leadership attack the middle class for the past decade. They have done it in overt ways (taxes, taxes and more taxes) and in less overt ways (housing policies, destroying what was once a great public school system).
It would be great to have some balance and so would love to see a Republican Club at my kid’s super liberal high school.
Is your kid a Republican? If so, how about taking some personal responsibility and suggesting to your kid that they start one?
Or, maybe there aren't any kids at your kid's super liberal high school who are interested in a Republican Club. In that case, do you think there still ought to be one, for "balance"?
DP.. more than likely, any kid in an MCPS HS would be afraid to start a R club for fear they would be bullied and ostracized.
I voted for Biden, but based on some comments I have heard from my DS and his friends about DEI, affirmative action, and such, they aren't so happy with progressive policies at the moment. If progressives aren't careful, they will turn off some of the younger men in our society and push them to the other side.
IMO, it would be good for both sides to have a respectful, thoughtful dialogue with each other. As it is, DS said that if they make any mention of anti-progressive policies, they get reamed in class by the girls. DS doesn't care *that* much about politics, but they can't have a thoughtful conversation because some of the progressives shut them down. There is no room for discussion with some of the progressives, and that is not right.
Oh absolutely. There isn’t much room for ‘respectful discussion’ at my kid’s high school. Just look at this board!
My kid is still figuring out his political views but has definitely chosen to simply keep his thought to himself in class when it’s clear that the girls aren’t really interested in hearing any alternative points of view.
This PP is correct that the girls seem to be way more rabidly progressive and intolerant of diversity of thought.
again, you are raising a child who can't stand up for himself, back his beliefs with thoughtful discussion and expect women to be docile or describe them as rabid. Sad.
DP.. my son doesn't really care that much about politics, so he doesn't think it's enough of a big deal to share his views. But he knows that if he does, the girls will attack him. He's not interested in a combative discussion. Like I said, some of these girls don't know how to discuss issues politely and listen to the other side. Respect goes both ways.
Making up imaginary combative discussions in his head... you might want to bring that up with his doctor.
? it's from personal experience. He knows that he will get attacked by the girls because it has happened in the past, and he sees it happening to other boys whenever they express their opinions that is counter to the progressive girls. He doesn't care enough to discuss it further.
So (1) he perceives disagreement as an attack, and (2) he doesn't actually care that much?
They are belligerent and argumentative... kind of like some adults on here.
No, he doesn't care that much, but if people want diversity of thought, maybe think about not being so combative.
One can disagree without getting angry, but that's not what is happening. Like, look at how some people attack anyone who disagrees with progressive policies.
"Diversity of thought" is a Republican talking point. Like, "Ha ha, those liberals are always talking about diversity, we'll show them by talking about diversity of thought!!!"
My kid told me about someone in their history class who cheered when the teacher talked about the liberals getting crushed in Italy in the 1920s - never mind that it was the fascists doing the crushing. Pro-fascism is certainly "diversity of thought", but it's not something I want. "The earth is flat" would also be diversity of thought. Why are there no Flat Earth Clubs in MCPS high schools?
^ perfect example of why some people have given up sharing their views. Thanks for proving my point.
Did I mention that I voted for Biden?
Typical. Can’t defend your position.
"Diversity of thought" is a Republican talking point. -- are you saying that Dems don't support diversity of thought?
Freedom of thought is a good thing. But if most people think the same thing - for example, the earth is round, the moon landing was not faked, vaccines prevent vaccine-preventable diseases - that is not a problem. If there are kids with Republican beliefs at a high school, and they want to start a Young Republican Club, go for it! However, if there aren't, then what? Force some kids to have Republican beliefs? Force some kids who don't have Republican beliefs to nonetheless start a Young Republican Club? Find some kids with Republican beliefs, elsewhere, and invite them to start a Young Republican Club at a school they don't attend?
This was never a sincere question. The thread is just trolling.
Anonymous wrote:This thread should be a HUGE warning for echo chamber democrats in this area.
There are a lot of people like me that:
- Voted for Obama twice
- Voted for Hillary
- Voted for Joe (and rejoiced when he won)
- On the fence about voting for Joe, and may just sit it out if Trump gets the R nom.
Putting your head in the sand is a bad strategy
Really, there are not a lot of people like this at all. Assuming you’re even in being truthful (which I doubt), what you are describing is an extremely rare, fringe thought process. Basically, you would be a freak if you behaved this way. Normal people aren’t doing the same.
The "tell" is that these folks are never able to really articulate what they don't like about Biden. There's some dog whistle stuff about "wokeness" but no one will say what that means or how Biden fits into it. He's not even that "woke" by progressive standards. He's your normal centrist Democrat governing from the middle.
I'll tell you.
Generally, I feel worse off today than I was when he took office.
- He handled the pandemic poorly (as did Trump, fwiw)
- Poor execution of withdrawal from Afghanistan
- Inflation
- Failing (and arguably allowing) to protect Title IX from being taken over by biological men. This is a personal one as I have a DD collegiate athlete.
- His age.
There's more. Look, I hope its not Biden/Trump again, bc I'll have to hold my nose and vote for him.
But his first term does not warrant a second
All of this. And more.
I’ll add immigration. He has done nothing to address our immigration woes. And as a Montgomery County resident, I witness first-hand, on a daily basis how uncontrolled immigration has negatively impacted my family, my neighborhood and my kid’s schools.
Off topic but interesting.
Please make a top post explaining how immigration has hurt MCPS.
Let’s clarify that the influx of undocumented immigrants (from all over the world) has most definitely had a negative impact on MCPS.
And let’s also clarify that I support legal immigration. But I wholeheartedly oppose the progressive, liberal policies that encourage more undocumented immigrants to come to the US.
Unfortunately, today's GOP blocks any legislation to address these problems. In the past, Bush Jr tried, and St. Reagan just handed out amnesty.
Anonymous wrote:Looking for diversity of thought at mcps schools. All the high schools have a young dems group. Which have young independent and young republicans too?
Have you met Gen Z
+1
Gen Z is concerned about climate change, gun safety, and equal rights for all persons. If they are active at all in politics, they are working directly on issues they care about. They are not hanging out in “Young ______” clubs mimicking mommy and daddy’s ideas.
What would Young Republicans care about?
* Tax cuts for billionaires and powerful corporations? * Ways to erode the middle class more quickly?
* Reset social progress to 1950?
Hilarious. I live in Montgomery County and have watched the Democrat leadership attack the middle class for the past decade. They have done it in overt ways (taxes, taxes and more taxes) and in less overt ways (housing policies, destroying what was once a great public school system).
It would be great to have some balance and so would love to see a Republican Club at my kid’s super liberal high school.
Is your kid a Republican? If so, how about taking some personal responsibility and suggesting to your kid that they start one?
Or, maybe there aren't any kids at your kid's super liberal high school who are interested in a Republican Club. In that case, do you think there still ought to be one, for "balance"?
DP.. more than likely, any kid in an MCPS HS would be afraid to start a R club for fear they would be bullied and ostracized.
I voted for Biden, but based on some comments I have heard from my DS and his friends about DEI, affirmative action, and such, they aren't so happy with progressive policies at the moment. If progressives aren't careful, they will turn off some of the younger men in our society and push them to the other side.
IMO, it would be good for both sides to have a respectful, thoughtful dialogue with each other. As it is, DS said that if they make any mention of anti-progressive policies, they get reamed in class by the girls. DS doesn't care *that* much about politics, but they can't have a thoughtful conversation because some of the progressives shut them down. There is no room for discussion with some of the progressives, and that is not right.
Oh absolutely. There isn’t much room for ‘respectful discussion’ at my kid’s high school. Just look at this board!
My kid is still figuring out his political views but has definitely chosen to simply keep his thought to himself in class when it’s clear that the girls aren’t really interested in hearing any alternative points of view.
This PP is correct that the girls seem to be way more rabidly progressive and intolerant of diversity of thought.
again, you are raising a child who can't stand up for himself, back his beliefs with thoughtful discussion and expect women to be docile or describe them as rabid. Sad.
DP.. my son doesn't really care that much about politics, so he doesn't think it's enough of a big deal to share his views. But he knows that if he does, the girls will attack him. He's not interested in a combative discussion. Like I said, some of these girls don't know how to discuss issues politely and listen to the other side. Respect goes both ways.
Making up imaginary combative discussions in his head... you might want to bring that up with his doctor.
? it's from personal experience. He knows that he will get attacked by the girls because it has happened in the past, and he sees it happening to other boys whenever they express their opinions that is counter to the progressive girls. He doesn't care enough to discuss it further.
So (1) he perceives disagreement as an attack, and (2) he doesn't actually care that much?
(3) he describes girls as rabid.
some of the girls do act that way if you disagree with them. Some adults act this way, too.
No they don’t, but you are teaching your weak minded son to categorize women as rabid if they don’t agree with him. Bad parenting.
So, you are calling my son a liar? Were you in the class with him?
He doesn't care enough to make it a big deal. He's a teen boy. He's not interested in politics. If he really cares about something, he will make his views known.
I actually called him weak minded. He’s been taught by you if women are not smiling , kind and docile they are rabid. So not lying just uninformed and weak minded as a result of bad parenting.
lol.. I didn't use the term "rabid", but some of the girls could be called that. The reaction to any divergent opinion was pretty strong.
Luckily, DS knows that not all girls are like this. It's just a select few. Like I said, if he really cares about something, he speaks up. He just doesn't care enough about politics to get into it.
But going back to OP's post.. you see, this is why they don't have a R club in MCPS HS. If you have divergent thoughts and voice them, you get called names, and if you don't want to engage, you get called names.
My DH is actually much more liberal than I am, and he even said some of those girls are a bit too much. Most boys don't care enough to voice their opinions on politics, though.
Anonymous wrote:Looking for diversity of thought at mcps schools. All the high schools have a young dems group. Which have young independent and young republicans too?
Have you met Gen Z
+1
Gen Z is concerned about climate change, gun safety, and equal rights for all persons. If they are active at all in politics, they are working directly on issues they care about. They are not hanging out in “Young ______” clubs mimicking mommy and daddy’s ideas.
What would Young Republicans care about?
* Tax cuts for billionaires and powerful corporations? * Ways to erode the middle class more quickly?
* Reset social progress to 1950?
Hilarious. I live in Montgomery County and have watched the Democrat leadership attack the middle class for the past decade. They have done it in overt ways (taxes, taxes and more taxes) and in less overt ways (housing policies, destroying what was once a great public school system).
It would be great to have some balance and so would love to see a Republican Club at my kid’s super liberal high school.
Is your kid a Republican? If so, how about taking some personal responsibility and suggesting to your kid that they start one?
Or, maybe there aren't any kids at your kid's super liberal high school who are interested in a Republican Club. In that case, do you think there still ought to be one, for "balance"?
DP.. more than likely, any kid in an MCPS HS would be afraid to start a R club for fear they would be bullied and ostracized.
I voted for Biden, but based on some comments I have heard from my DS and his friends about DEI, affirmative action, and such, they aren't so happy with progressive policies at the moment. If progressives aren't careful, they will turn off some of the younger men in our society and push them to the other side.
IMO, it would be good for both sides to have a respectful, thoughtful dialogue with each other. As it is, DS said that if they make any mention of anti-progressive policies, they get reamed in class by the girls. DS doesn't care *that* much about politics, but they can't have a thoughtful conversation because some of the progressives shut them down. There is no room for discussion with some of the progressives, and that is not right.
Oh absolutely. There isn’t much room for ‘respectful discussion’ at my kid’s high school. Just look at this board!
My kid is still figuring out his political views but has definitely chosen to simply keep his thought to himself in class when it’s clear that the girls aren’t really interested in hearing any alternative points of view.
This PP is correct that the girls seem to be way more rabidly progressive and intolerant of diversity of thought.
again, you are raising a child who can't stand up for himself, back his beliefs with thoughtful discussion and expect women to be docile or describe them as rabid. Sad.
DP.. my son doesn't really care that much about politics, so he doesn't think it's enough of a big deal to share his views. But he knows that if he does, the girls will attack him. He's not interested in a combative discussion. Like I said, some of these girls don't know how to discuss issues politely and listen to the other side. Respect goes both ways.
Making up imaginary combative discussions in his head... you might want to bring that up with his doctor.
? it's from personal experience. He knows that he will get attacked by the girls because it has happened in the past, and he sees it happening to other boys whenever they express their opinions that is counter to the progressive girls. He doesn't care enough to discuss it further.
So (1) he perceives disagreement as an attack, and (2) he doesn't actually care that much?
(3) he describes girls as rabid.
some of the girls do act that way if you disagree with them. Some adults act this way, too.
No they don’t, but you are teaching your weak minded son to categorize women as rabid if they don’t agree with him. Bad parenting.
So, you are calling my son a liar? Were you in the class with him?
He doesn't care enough to make it a big deal. He's a teen boy. He's not interested in politics. If he really cares about something, he will make his views known.
I actually called him weak minded. He’s been taught by you if women are not smiling , kind and docile they are rabid. So not lying just uninformed and weak minded as a result of bad parenting.
lol.. I didn't use the term "rabid", but some of the girls could be called that. The reaction to any divergent opinion was pretty strong.
Luckily, DS knows that not all girls are like this. It's just a select few. Like I said, if he really cares about something, he speaks up. He just doesn't care enough about politics to get into it.
But going back to OP's post.. you see, this is why they don't have a R club in MCPS HS. If you have divergent thoughts and voice them, you get called names, and if you don't want to engage, you get called names.
My DH is actually much more liberal than I am, and he even said some of those girls are a bit too much. Most boys don't care enough to voice their opinions on politics, though.
Because the people who might be in it don't care enough about it?
Anonymous wrote:Looking for diversity of thought at mcps schools. All the high schools have a young dems group. Which have young independent and young republicans too?
Have you met Gen Z
+1
Gen Z is concerned about climate change, gun safety, and equal rights for all persons. If they are active at all in politics, they are working directly on issues they care about. They are not hanging out in “Young ______” clubs mimicking mommy and daddy’s ideas.
What would Young Republicans care about?
* Tax cuts for billionaires and powerful corporations? * Ways to erode the middle class more quickly?
* Reset social progress to 1950?
Hilarious. I live in Montgomery County and have watched the Democrat leadership attack the middle class for the past decade. They have done it in overt ways (taxes, taxes and more taxes) and in less overt ways (housing policies, destroying what was once a great public school system).
It would be great to have some balance and so would love to see a Republican Club at my kid’s super liberal high school.
Is your kid a Republican? If so, how about taking some personal responsibility and suggesting to your kid that they start one?
Or, maybe there aren't any kids at your kid's super liberal high school who are interested in a Republican Club. In that case, do you think there still ought to be one, for "balance"?
DP.. more than likely, any kid in an MCPS HS would be afraid to start a R club for fear they would be bullied and ostracized.
I voted for Biden, but based on some comments I have heard from my DS and his friends about DEI, affirmative action, and such, they aren't so happy with progressive policies at the moment. If progressives aren't careful, they will turn off some of the younger men in our society and push them to the other side.
IMO, it would be good for both sides to have a respectful, thoughtful dialogue with each other. As it is, DS said that if they make any mention of anti-progressive policies, they get reamed in class by the girls. DS doesn't care *that* much about politics, but they can't have a thoughtful conversation because some of the progressives shut them down. There is no room for discussion with some of the progressives, and that is not right.
Oh absolutely. There isn’t much room for ‘respectful discussion’ at my kid’s high school. Just look at this board!
My kid is still figuring out his political views but has definitely chosen to simply keep his thought to himself in class when it’s clear that the girls aren’t really interested in hearing any alternative points of view.
This PP is correct that the girls seem to be way more rabidly progressive and intolerant of diversity of thought.
again, you are raising a child who can't stand up for himself, back his beliefs with thoughtful discussion and expect women to be docile or describe them as rabid. Sad.
DP.. my son doesn't really care that much about politics, so he doesn't think it's enough of a big deal to share his views. But he knows that if he does, the girls will attack him. He's not interested in a combative discussion. Like I said, some of these girls don't know how to discuss issues politely and listen to the other side. Respect goes both ways.
Making up imaginary combative discussions in his head... you might want to bring that up with his doctor.
? it's from personal experience. He knows that he will get attacked by the girls because it has happened in the past, and he sees it happening to other boys whenever they express their opinions that is counter to the progressive girls. He doesn't care enough to discuss it further.
So (1) he perceives disagreement as an attack, and (2) he doesn't actually care that much?
They are belligerent and argumentative... kind of like some adults on here.
No, he doesn't care that much, but if people want diversity of thought, maybe think about not being so combative.
One can disagree without getting angry, but that's not what is happening. Like, look at how some people attack anyone who disagrees with progressive policies.
"Diversity of thought" is a Republican talking point. Like, "Ha ha, those liberals are always talking about diversity, we'll show them by talking about diversity of thought!!!"
My kid told me about someone in their history class who cheered when the teacher talked about the liberals getting crushed in Italy in the 1920s - never mind that it was the fascists doing the crushing. Pro-fascism is certainly "diversity of thought", but it's not something I want. "The earth is flat" would also be diversity of thought. Why are there no Flat Earth Clubs in MCPS high schools?
It’s the whole “why oh why won’t you tolerate my intolerance” whinge.
It’s the whole “I call disagreement intolerance” whinge.
Well, no. Because usually it’s a reaction to bad-faith, uncivil and often offensive viewpoints being expressed. Racist and sexist opinions aren’t valid and can be fairly dismissed out of hand. It’s not like the things that leading Republicans say these days are valid or even grounded in reality. You want to discuss the size of government and how it relates to tax policy? Sure. But your proposals to ban drag queens, ban books in schools that deal with race and trans people and insist that the solution to gun violence is more guns? You want to restrict abortion? Naw, you don’t live in the real world and your ideas aren’t even valid enough to discuss. Hell, you really aren’t even American in the way you think.
Yes. Absolutely. But the bar for racism and sexism has dropped so low that its became an arbitrary and meaningless response to any comment that a person simply doesnt like
Really, it hasn’t. Remember: GOP is the party of insurrection and being anti-American and anti-freedom. This is why both Trump and DeSantis are LOWER than Biden in approval ratings. If the GOP was going to win in a backlash against Biden, that would have happened in November.
I don't know. Remember, it only takes a handful of states. Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin. All of those with disapproval ratings near 60.
And right now, the difference between Biden and RDS is less than one percentage point nationally. He would win Florida, and Ohio. Can't find info on Joe/Ron for Wisconsin (most recent i found was 5 months ago) & recent polls would have RDS beating Joe in PA and AZ.
No matter what, it's going to be an uphill battle, especially for a senior citizen that has trouble articulating himself. People scoffing at the prediction of a 1 term presidency really need to wake up
He just doesn't care enough about politics to get into it.
I mean, I think this is the difference. He doesn't care and he doesn't need to care. The "rabid girls" are looking at whether they need to select colleges based on whether they would be allowed to terminate their pregnancy if sexually assaulted. He has no skin in the game, they do, and their natural responses look "hysterical" to him because politics don't touch him.
He just doesn't care enough about politics to get into it.
I mean, I think this is the difference. He doesn't care and he doesn't need to care. The "rabid girls" are looking at whether they need to select colleges based on whether they would be allowed to terminate their pregnancy if sexually assaulted. He has no skin in the game, they do, and their natural responses look "hysterical" to him because politics don't touch him.
My daughter, a junior in high school, is 100% doing this, no "whether" about it. If the college is in a state where state law bans standard medical care, it's off the list.
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