How do you find God if you don't believe?

[Anonymous]

OP, everyone will find the God, sooner or later. For some people, this will happen when they take a last breath. I think this would hurt a lot finding out the God in the last second of your life and realizing you lived all your life in lies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

or you could talk to an actual friend. Not that God isn't a friend, but he's not human - he's supernatural, so he's always there, if you believe in him.

But a human friend could actually give you answers. Maybe not good answers, but you'd be sure that they came from someone else, and that you didn't conjure them up yourself.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but OP, if you are still here, I would recommend watching some videos by Bishop Robert Barron. He has a lot of short clips that address some of the fundamental arguments (from logic and science) for the existence of God and he has a very approachable way of explaining these concepts. As a convert to Catholicism myself, I find that most people who don't believe in God actually don't believe some false God they made up in their mind. The absolute first question to answer is what we mean by God. The why we believe and what we owe to God questions are somewhat naturally answered once we understand who God is (and what He is not). So my advice is to focus on that fundamental question.

My other advice is to keep an open mind. God cannot come into your heart if you keep is sealed. You have to at least entertain the possibility that God exists, otherwise, don't bother down this path. But I think you are already there because you sense a dissatisfaction with the way things are. My own spiritual journey started from that same feeling, and that was enough of an opening to let God in, despite my atheist upbringing. As I started to read more theistic readings (I didn't start with Christianity but more general theism), i had all this skepticism (I am a lawyer by trade so the skepticism was endless). But I remember the moment vividly when I just suspended my skepticism and pretended that God did exist (literally just a moment "let me pretend there is a God"). Everything suddenly sense and all the pieces of my worldview that clashed or seem disjointed all came together once I looked at them through the theistic lens. Not saying that it will happen for you like this, but just that everyone will have their own unique/personal ah ha moments and to be open to them.

Why did you choose Catholicism Vs other Christian denominations ?

Once I was convinced there is a God, i started exploring different theistic religions. At first, i attended a Universalist Unitarian church because that was all I could handle. But then as I kept reading, that church was no longer enough (they tend to stay very surfacy about loving everyone and doing good but shies away from deeper questions). I read up on Islam but its view of God was not "that which nothing greater can be thought" imo, so I rejected that. I was really hung up on the idea of Jesus, so it took me a while to come to terms with Christianity as a possibility, but once I did, i started attending protestant churches simply out of accessibility. I found one I really liked (very intellectual approach to the Bible), but some reason, I just kept feeling like I had to keep searching. One day I walked into a Catholic Mass and while I was so confused by all the standing, kneeling, recitations, I felt a very deep sense of peace. Then I started researching Catholicism and everything I read just clicked and felt right (the theology not necessarily all the social teachings, which took more time). I remember reading the Catechism, which most people would probably find a dry read, and found it just so engaging haha!

I appreciate the depth of Catholicism, its comfort with and embrace of ambiguity and mystery. I think on the logic side, I find Protestantism to be unsustainable. In my exploration of protestant churches, some churches were so different from each other as to be almost separate religions. That surely cannot be how God intends for his church to be, so it was more easy for me to believe that Matthew 16:18 meant that God established one church and will stand by her to the end. Either that or we are all screwed imho, because otherwise we are just following our own egos by establishing 30,000 different churches.

I wonder why God let all those other religions exist, after establishing the one true religion of Roman Catholicism.

Because God is a huge believer in free will.

And not all religions need to be a zero sum game against Christianity. Most try to grasp at as much of the truth as possible, some getting closer than others, and that is why they hold appeal. Personally, when I learn about other religions, i try to focus on what they got right and appreciate those things, rather than the things that contradict Christianity. And to OP's original point, you can possibly adopt many religions/faiths if your goal is to live a happier life versus the status quo of not believing anything. Not necessarily because those faiths are entirely right, but because they may hold bits of truth, such as helping you focus on the deeper meanings in life or meditation to help calm and focus on the present, and those truths/practices can place you closer to God whether you recognize Him or not.

However, if your search is for the fullness of truth, Christianity (specifically Catholicism) is only religion worthy of belief. We're not even talking whether it's true or not, but just intellectually speaking, worthy of us. This is coming from someone who did not grow up in the West and who had quite the negative view of Christianity into my early 20s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, everyone will find the God, sooner or later. For some people, this will happen when they take a last breath. I think this would hurt a lot finding out the God in the last second of your life and realizing you lived all your life in lies.

Wow -- how do you know that some people find God with their last breath?? and that these people realize that they lived their whole life in lies??

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God has revealed himself to us in the glory of creation, in the perfection of the written word, and in the personal experience of all who seek him.

Yes, agreed. For those who have eyes to see, God has made himself abundantly clear. For those who refuse to see, nothing can "prove" God.

How is that any different than if he didn’t exist?

The difference is that if he did not exist then there will be no people who felt him, who heard him, who've seen him, who talked to him.

What if they are mistaken and they just think they did? How can you tell the difference between the two if there’s no empirical evidence?

Surely you don't believe empirical evidence is all there is to this world and the only way to know something. Do you only know your parents love you because of the things they did for you? Can you properly explain the joy a piece of music brings you because you can measure your endorphins? Can the sum of a human life be understood by analyzing all his cells, brain waves, etc?

What if believers are wrong? No one can be absolutely sure, imo, i grant you that. But there is no loss if we are wrong. But if the atheists are wrong, then they face the possibility of eternal consequences. Aka, pascal's wager.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, everyone will find the God, sooner or later. For some people, this will happen when they take a last breath. I think this would hurt a lot finding out the God in the last second of your life and realizing you lived all your life in lies.

Or it could be the other way around. You could live your life devoted to something that doesn't exist and realize you have lived all your life in lies.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?

NP
The Golden Rule (You can find it in any great religion or moral philosophy)
Love, kindness and compassion.
The Buddha compared his teaching like a raft to cross over to the other side.

But where the Golden Rule came from? Can you cite the first source?

The Torah. And Jesus was Jewish.

"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" Leviticus 19:18

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

I didn't have to convince myself. God reached out to me and I had nothing to do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, everyone will find the God, sooner or later. For some people, this will happen when they take a last breath. I think this would hurt a lot finding out the God in the last second of your life and realizing you lived all your life in lies.

Or it could be the other way around. You could live your life devoted to something that doesn't exist and realize you have lived all your life in lies.

If there is no God, and there is no afterlife, you will never know. So you will have zero regrets.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

Do you believe your moral compass is objectively true? If so, where does it come from? If not, and everyone is free to have their own moral compass, then there is no such thing as a moral compass, just what each of us desires and doing what makes us feel good.

Point is, objective truth only makes sense in context of the existence of something objectively true and unchanging, which is God. I agree that you don't need to believe in God to have a moral compass, but that moral compass still comes from God, regardless of whether you acknowledge its source.

That is your religious belief. It is not a fact.

This is not my religious belief but logic. If there is no God, properly defined, then there is no objective truth. On what standing could you say that what you claim to be moral is actually moral, esp if I believe the opposite? This loss of theism is exactly why people today are so ungrounded. How can you have an honest conversation or debate about anything if you don't actually believe there is a truth that can be uncovered through the discussion? So people today just leave it as "your truths" as if that phrase even has any coherent meaning. Either there is Truth or there is not, but there are not multiple Truths.

This makes perfect sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, everyone will find the God, sooner or later. For some people, this will happen when they take a last breath. I think this would hurt a lot finding out the God in the last second of your life and realizing you lived all your life in lies.

Or it could be the other way around. You could live your life devoted to something that doesn't exist and realize you have lived all your life in lies.

If there's no universal truth then there is no such thing as living your life in lies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

I didn't have to convince myself. God reached out to me and I had nothing to do with it.

Hmmm. I wonder why God "reache[s] out" to some people and not others? Seems very arbitrary. Like in the OT, reaching out to one particular family in the desert of Iraq. Well, God moves in mysterious ways that's for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

or you could talk to an actual friend. Not that God isn't a friend, but he's not human - he's supernatural, so he's always there, if you believe in him.

But a human friend could actually give you answers. Maybe not good answers, but you'd be sure that they came from someone else, and that you didn't conjure them up yourself.

This is a terrible piece of advice.

1. Talk to a friend- who might give you bad answers?
2. don’t listen to your own answers?

Do you think people are “conjuring up” answers to their life struggles when they meditate?

Your post would make me doubt my own thoughts if I were op. Weird post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?

NP
The Golden Rule (You can find it in any great religion or moral philosophy)
Love, kindness and compassion.
The Buddha compared his teaching like a raft to cross over to the other side.

But where the Golden Rule came from? Can you cite the first source?

Why can’t it be natural in origin? Like other customs such as family and living in communities?

Because humans don’t tend to do great left to their own devices. Slavery, child sacrifice, worshipping and believing the sun or gods and goddesses, and other gods represented by nature (sacrificing humans for a good harvest, chanting and dancing for rain to relieve drought, etc) is not a good way to live.

In America, Christianity was the driving force behind the abolition of slavery. Slavery still exists throughout the world. But not in America.

People will always try to make sense of and order their world. People will always seek a higher understanding and look for guidance from the world around them.

Christianity is the ultimate guide to helping humans live decent and loving lives.

Top 10 Countries with the Highest Prevalence of Modern Slavery (by total number of slaves) - Global Slavery Index 2018:

India - 7,989,000
China - 3,864,000
North Korea - 2,640,000
Nigeria - 1,386,000
Iran - 1,289,000
Indonesia - 1,220,000
Congo (Democratic Republic of) - 1,045,000
Russia - 794,000
Philippines - 784,000
Afghanistan - 749,000


So, leaving things up to community vote is not a good way to organize your community. The strong take control of and subjugate the weak-women, kids, the poor- are used and abused.

Christianity believes each of God’s creations are in their own right worthy of respect, fair treatment, and love.

I realize people like you who have this “community theory” and believe that some how humans pull together and make things work for the good of all have permanent rose colored glasses and a cushy life here in America. Please travel and don’t stay on a resort and see how it’s going for people not born into American privilege, you might not be so hot on your theory after a few visits to the 3rd world.