Is Johns Hopkins still desirable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

I don't disagree but you'd have to account for undergrad interest as well. Penn's naturally going to do well since Wharton's such a large chunk of the student population. I imagine JHU attracts the pre-med folks rather than finance bros so would be interesting to see how they do with med school placements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

I don't disagree but you'd have to account for undergrad interest as well. Penn's naturally going to do well since Wharton's such a large chunk of the student population. I imagine JHU attracts the pre-med folks rather than finance bros so would be interesting to see how they do with med school placements.

True, but the data was in response to PP saying [about Dartmouth and Cornell]: "And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two." Which obviously isn't true. You're right for med school placement Johns Hopkins is near the top:

Top Feeders to Elite Medical Schools (Harvard Med, Johns Hopkins Med, UCSF, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-medical-school

1. Yale
2. Duke
3. Stanford
4. Johns Hopkins
5. Harvard
6. Princeton
7. Vanderbilt
8. Dartmouth
9. Rice
10. WashU St. Louis
11. Amherst
12. MIT
13. Williams
14. Pomona
15. Swarthmore
16. Columbia
17. Northwestern
18. Brown
19. UPenn
20. Emory

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

I don't disagree but you'd have to account for undergrad interest as well. Penn's naturally going to do well since Wharton's such a large chunk of the student population. I imagine JHU attracts the pre-med folks rather than finance bros so would be interesting to see how they do with med school placements.

True, but the data was in response to PP saying [about Dartmouth and Cornell]: "And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two." Which obviously isn't true. You're right for med school placement Johns Hopkins is near the top:

Top Feeders to Elite Medical Schools (Harvard Med, Johns Hopkins Med, UCSF, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-medical-school

1. Yale
2. Duke
3. Stanford
4. Johns Hopkins
5. Harvard
6. Princeton
7. Vanderbilt
8. Dartmouth
9. Rice
10. WashU St. Louis
11. Amherst
12. MIT
13. Williams
14. Pomona
15. Swarthmore
16. Columbia
17. Northwestern
18. Brown
19. UPenn
20. Emory

Wow Duke is exceptional at everything. Not going to lie I thought it was just a basketball school for many years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

Hardly important if you are a doctor or an engineer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

Hardly important if you are a doctor or an engineer.

Hopkins does great for medicine but you can hardly say employers care more about Hopkins than Cornell for engineering.

Top Feeders to Elite Medical Schools (Harvard Med, Johns Hopkins Med, UCSF, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-medical-school

1. Yale
2. Duke
3. Stanford
4. Johns Hopkins
5. Harvard
6. Princeton
7. Vanderbilt
8. Dartmouth
9. Rice
10. WashU St. Louis
11. Amherst
12. MIT
13. Williams
14. Pomona
15. Swarthmore
16. Columbia
17. Northwestern
18. Brown
19. UPenn
20. Emory

Top Feeders to Elite Tech Companies for Software (Google, Meta, Microsoft, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-tech

1. Carnegie Mellon
2. Columbia
3. Stanford
4. MIT
5. Caltech
6. Harvey Mudd
7. Georgia Tech
8. University of Southern California
9. Rice
10. Harvard
11. Duke
12. Cornell
13. Northeastern
14. Berkeley
15. UPenn
16. Princeton
17. Brown
18. Santa Clara University
19. Northwestern
20. UIUC

Top Feeders to Elite Tech Companies for Engineering (Apple, SpaceX, NASA, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-engineering

1. Carnegie Mellon
2. Columbia
3. Caltech
4. MIT
5. Georgia Tech
6. University of Southern California
7. Stanford
8. Olin
9. Harvey Mudd
10. Rice
11. Northeastern
12. Duke
13. Cornell
14. Santa Clara University
15. UPenn
16. Princeton
17. Harvard
18. Rose Hulman
19. Johns Hopkins
20. Cooper Union

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.

There's no such thing as a top english or political science major.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

Hardly important if you are a doctor or an engineer.

Hopkins does great for medicine but you can hardly say employers care more about Hopkins than Cornell for engineering.

Top Feeders to Elite Medical Schools (Harvard Med, Johns Hopkins Med, UCSF, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-medical-school

1. Yale
2. Duke
3. Stanford
4. Johns Hopkins
5. Harvard
6. Princeton
7. Vanderbilt
8. Dartmouth
9. Rice
10. WashU St. Louis
11. Amherst
12. MIT
13. Williams
14. Pomona
15. Swarthmore
16. Columbia
17. Northwestern
18. Brown
19. UPenn
20. Emory

Top Feeders to Elite Tech Companies for Software (Google, Meta, Microsoft, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-tech

1. Carnegie Mellon
2. Columbia
3. Stanford
4. MIT
5. Caltech
6. Harvey Mudd
7. Georgia Tech
8. University of Southern California
9. Rice
10. Harvard
11. Duke
12. Cornell
13. Northeastern
14. Berkeley
15. UPenn
16. Princeton
17. Brown
18. Santa Clara University
19. Northwestern
20. UIUC

Top Feeders to Elite Tech Companies for Engineering (Apple, SpaceX, NASA, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-engineering

1. Carnegie Mellon
2. Columbia
3. Caltech
4. MIT
5. Georgia Tech
6. University of Southern California
7. Stanford
8. Olin
9. Harvey Mudd
10. Rice
11. Northeastern
12. Duke
13. Cornell
14. Santa Clara University
15. UPenn
16. Princeton
17. Harvard
18. Rose Hulman
19. Johns Hopkins
20. Cooper Union

Santa Clara for the win I guess?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.

There's no such thing as a top english or political science major.

A lot of the activist kids with good grades and test scores get accepted to top schools, but it's on you if you don't consider them top students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.

There's no such thing as a top english or political science major.

A lot of the activist kids with good grades and test scores get accepted to top schools, but it's on you if you don't consider them top students.

Let's be real, if a kid is an activist but conservative I bet you consider them a dolt...be honest.

[Anonymous]

Current Hopkins student who lurks here a lot...
Johns Hopkins is still a dream school for the majority of people who are students here. Most of us are still wondering how the heck we got in hahaha. We are very strong in the sciences and have wonderful connections with the med school campus (The majority of pre-med students work there actually, and I participate in a few programs there myself). We are also strong in the social sciences and the humanities program (check out our Writing Sems program!). It is a privilege to be a student here, and I have grown tremendously as a student and person during my time here. It certainly is challenging, but I wouldn't change it for the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never hear anyone mention it any more. I know that it is still a very fine school (and two of my siblings went there) -- but are kids less interested? Or is it just my kid's friends who aren't interested?

Very fine school. Top notch med school.
Likely not a first choice for many.
More likely the choice for those that did not get into: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, UPenn, Duke, or Caltech

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.

There's no such thing as a top english or political science major.

A lot of the activist kids with good grades and test scores get accepted to top schools, but it's on you if you don't consider them top students.

Let's be real, if a kid is an activist but conservative I bet you consider them a dolt...be honest.

Not true, there are plenty of smart conservatives that deserve to get into top schools as well. They just aren't as likely to be as Yale because Yale is super liberal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Current Hopkins student who lurks here a lot...
Johns Hopkins is still a dream school for the majority of people who are students here. Most of us are still wondering how the heck we got in hahaha. We are very strong in the sciences and have wonderful connections with the med school campus (The majority of pre-med students work there actually, and I participate in a few programs there myself). We are also strong in the social sciences and the humanities program (check out our Writing Sems program!). It is a privilege to be a student here, and I have grown tremendously as a student and person during my time here. It certainly is challenging, but I wouldn't change it for the world.

+1 my DC is very happy at JHU. Was one of his top choices as a high school senior - he only would've picked a tippy-top ivy or Duke over JHU, but it's helped him grow in ways other schools probably wouldn't have. He also would agree with you that it's very hard - he's come home on a few different breaks where he would shut himself away for at least a day to recover!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

I agree 100% that people should be looking for the right schools for them and rankings should just help narrow and focus options. Thankfully, there also isn't just one "right" option for anyone though there are obviously some wrong ones. Thank goodness for the option to transfer! On DCUM, I worry that posters and their kids get so focused on 1-3 "right" schools that are often some of the 25 hardest to get admitted to.

USNWR has major faults but is most "important" of the rankers in terms of clicks and circulation. USNWR consistently ranking Hopkins in the top 10 is a signal that students and parents can take into account or disregard. I would never say to stop looking at Hopkins if you think it is a good match just because USNWR says it is ranked below Chicago. Similarly, you might find Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Duke, or Rice more appealing (all ranked lower on USNWR).

For alums and people on the board with kids at Hopkins, you should be excited about the future. I'm bullish on Hopkins long term.

+1 I have a kid at Hopkins and he is very happy with it so far. And I agree the USNWR ranking boost is a great thing for the school. Maybe we won't catch up to schools like Penn, Duke, and Columbia in overall desirability, but I think we can overtake schools like Northwestern, UChicago, and Dartmouth in popularity among students. I think we've left Cornell behind at this point.

Dream on. 9 out of 10 kids pick Cornell and Dartmouth over that school

And with the latest USNWR ranking, 9 out of 10 employers will choose JHU grads over those two.

Employers don’t care about USNWR. Look at top consulting and finance firms and see who they hire.

Sure.

You want the data?

Top Feeders to Elite Consulting Firms (McKinsey, Bain, BCG): https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/consulting-target-schools

1. Harvard
2. UPenn
3. MIT
4. Yale
5. Princeton
6. Dartmouth
7. Stanford
8. Duke
9. Columbia
10. Claremont McKenna
11. Northwestern
12. Vanderbilt
13. Rice
14. UChicago
15. Williams
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Notre Dame
19. Georgetown
20. WashU St. Louis

Top Feeders to Elite Wall Street Firms (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JPM, etc.): https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-banking

1. UPenn
2. Harvard
3. Columbia
4. Yale
5. UChicago
6. Williams
7. Duke
8. Claremont McKenna
9. Middlebury
10. Princeton
11. Dartmouth
12. Notre Dame
13. Georgetown
14. Washington & Lee
15. Cornell
16. Amherst
17. Brown
18. Bowdoin
19. Stanford
20. Vanderbilt

Top Feeders to Elite Private Equity Firms (Blackstone, KKR, Apollo Global, etc.): https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/undergraduate-representation-among-pe-firms-with-data

1. Princeton (Placement %: 28.7%)
2. Harvard (Placement %: 18.1%)
3. Dartmouth (Placement %: 18.0%)
4. Penn/Wharton (Placement %: 17.4%)
5. Duke (Placement %: 13.4%)
6. Columbia (Placement %: 8.2%)
7. Yale (Placement %: 7.0%)
8. MIT (Placement %: 6.5%)
9. Stanford (Placement %: 5.3%)
10. Brown (Placement %: 4.2%)
11. UChicago (Placement %: 1.7%)

As you can see, none of these employers care how Hopkins ranks in US News.

Wow, I did not realize Dartmouth placed so well with top employers.

That's pretty much all that Dartmouth has going for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.

There's no such thing as a top english or political science major.

A lot of the activist kids with good grades and test scores get accepted to top schools, but it's on you if you don't consider them top students.

Let's be real, if a kid is an activist but conservative I bet you consider them a dolt...be honest.

Not true, there are plenty of smart conservatives that deserve to get into top schools as well. They just aren't as likely to be as Yale because Yale is super liberal

That didn't take long to trickle into the conservative talking points. Well done at reading your script.