Early middle school bell crushing DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

With that being said, no one is batting an eye that young children aren’t getting home till 5PM. We have a section of our school that should not be in boundary and their bus is always late. There is an ES closer to them but the boundary has them attending our school. So we have 5 year olds getting home at 5 that go to bed a few hours later. This is why the county needs to do a holistic boundary study and change bus protocols. I would LOVE to see the following data: how many homes have a closer school than the one they are bound to go to and how many late ES busses are continuously late.

Because it isn't a problem at all? There is an entire after-care industry because parents of elementary school kids need to have them covered until 5pm or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

With that being said, no one is batting an eye that young children aren’t getting home till 5PM. We have a section of our school that should not be in boundary and their bus is always late. There is an ES closer to them but the boundary has them attending our school. So we have 5 year olds getting home at 5 that go to bed a few hours later. This is why the county needs to do a holistic boundary study and change bus protocols. I would LOVE to see the following data: how many homes have a closer school than the one they are bound to go to and how many late ES busses are continuously late.

Because it isn't a problem at all? There is an entire after-care industry because parents of elementary school kids need to have them covered until 5pm or so.

Sorry, but I teach at a late ES and the kids are done by 3:00. It is extremely hard to keep them engaged and learning. Also, so many people claimed little kids should not go early cause then they will be waiting at the bus stop in the dark. Well in the fall and winter they are in the evening. It starts getting dark by 4:45-5pm snd some kids need to walk from bus stop to their house. No kid regardless of age should be going to school at 4pm. Secondly, we have kids getting picked up from 3:30 on for after school activities because they start at 4:30.

School hours should be 7:30-3:50 the latest. Which they used to be! When I first started we got out at 3:50, now the school day ends at 4:05. My school is in a heavily congested area and traffic is awful.

Hours should be 7:50- 2:50, 8:15-3:15, 8:30-3:30, 8:45-3:45

The county needs to do the following - Keep Bus Stops minimal (centrally located stops) like TJ does and keep bus routes in the pyramid so they do not need to travel that far. It is absolutely possible if people actually started looking at solutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

With that being said, no one is batting an eye that young children aren’t getting home till 5PM. We have a section of our school that should not be in boundary and their bus is always late. There is an ES closer to them but the boundary has them attending our school. So we have 5 year olds getting home at 5 that go to bed a few hours later. This is why the county needs to do a holistic boundary study and change bus protocols. I would LOVE to see the following data: how many homes have a closer school than the one they are bound to go to and how many late ES busses are continuously late.

Because it isn't a problem at all? There is an entire after-care industry because parents of elementary school kids need to have them covered until 5pm or so.

Sorry, but I teach at a late ES and the kids are done by 3:00. It is extremely hard to keep them engaged and learning. Also, so many people claimed little kids should not go early cause then they will be waiting at the bus stop in the dark. Well in the fall and winter they are in the evening. It starts getting dark by 4:45-5pm snd some kids need to walk from bus stop to their house. No kid regardless of age should be going to school at 4pm. Secondly, we have kids getting picked up from 3:30 on for after school activities because they start at 4:30.

School hours should be 7:30-3:50 the latest. Which they used to be! When I first started we got out at 3:50, now the school day ends at 4:05. My school is in a heavily congested area and traffic is awful.

Hours should be 7:50- 2:50, 8:15-3:15, 8:30-3:30, 8:45-3:45

The county needs to do the following - Keep Bus Stops minimal (centrally located stops) like TJ does and keep bus routes in the pyramid so they do not need to travel that far. It is absolutely possible if people actually started looking at solutions.

Also stop bussing to AAP centers when LL4 is offered at school.

[Anonymous]

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/CHNJCG4C7062/$file/FY22%20Year%20End%20Agenda.pdf

$275k for a middle school start time study

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

I agree with this and that’s what I keep telling myself. MS is low stakes and grades won’t count. I think more rest in HS is better. It still sucks for MS though.

Except there are kids taking WL and Math that does count.

Yes. And those students are relatively few (MS students taking languages and math that counts for HS credits).Should we adjust all MS start times just for that relatively small group of MS students? Nope, because it would probably affect HS start times which we just got pushed later a few years ago. Sorry, but the needs of the MS students who choose to do HS credit courses in MS can't outweigh the needs of HS students overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

With that being said, no one is batting an eye that young children aren’t getting home till 5PM. We have a section of our school that should not be in boundary and their bus is always late. There is an ES closer to them but the boundary has them attending our school. So we have 5 year olds getting home at 5 that go to bed a few hours later. This is why the county needs to do a holistic boundary study and change bus protocols. I would LOVE to see the following data: how many homes have a closer school than the one they are bound to go to and how many late ES busses are continuously late.

What you describe is a problem but it is not just a start time issue. It is a school boundary issue. Start campaigning to get boundaries changed; you have a better shot at that than at getting start times changed, because the start time alterations were the subject of lengthy study and public meetings etc. (see above) and that ship has sailed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

With that being said, no one is batting an eye that young children aren’t getting home till 5PM. We have a section of our school that should not be in boundary and their bus is always late. There is an ES closer to them but the boundary has them attending our school. So we have 5 year olds getting home at 5 that go to bed a few hours later. This is why the county needs to do a holistic boundary study and change bus protocols. I would LOVE to see the following data: how many homes have a closer school than the one they are bound to go to and how many late ES busses are continuously late.

What you describe is a problem but it is not just a start time issue. It is a school boundary issue. Start campaigning to get boundaries changed; you have a better shot at that than at getting start times changed, because the start time alterations were the subject of lengthy study and public meetings etc. (see above) and that ship has sailed.

I don’t know. They are investing money to study middle school start times. There were even some discussions with principals during the ES extra planning meetings. I can definitely see middle school times changing in the next 5 years. For every parent who is against later MS and early ES, there are probably 4-5 for the change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

I agree with this and that’s what I keep telling myself. MS is low stakes and grades won’t count. I think more rest in HS is better. It still sucks for MS though.

Except there are kids taking WL and Math that does count.

Yes. And those students are relatively few (MS students taking languages and math that counts for HS credits).Should we adjust all MS start times just for that relatively small group of MS students? Nope, because it would probably affect HS start times which we just got pushed later a few years ago. Sorry, but the needs of the MS students who choose to do HS credit courses in MS can't outweigh the needs of HS students overall.

What? Most 8th graders take a Language and Algebra 1? I would not say a few. No one is saying high school students should go early.

It should be ES, High School than MS with school hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

I agree with this and that’s what I keep telling myself. MS is low stakes and grades won’t count. I think more rest in HS is better. It still sucks for MS though.

Except there are kids taking WL and Math that does count.

Yes. And those students are relatively few (MS students taking languages and math that counts for HS credits).Should we adjust all MS start times just for that relatively small group of MS students? Nope, because it would probably affect HS start times which we just got pushed later a few years ago. Sorry, but the needs of the MS students who choose to do HS credit courses in MS can't outweigh the needs of HS students overall.

What? Most 8th graders take a Language and Algebra 1? I would not say a few. No one is saying high school students should go early.

It should be ES, High School than MS with school hours.

Yup. MS could take the late ES slot.

[Anonymous]

There are so many things I dislike about ACPS, but FCPS start times are enough to discourage our moving. ES 0755-1425, MS 0835-1515, and HS 0835-1515

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To anyone reading this and getting anxiety because of all of the drama, it’s not that bad. I was so worried about the early start time because of reading this forum, but my son adjusted perfectly fine to the middle school schedule. We were at an ES that started at 9:20 or whatever too. He had to leave at 6:50 to get to school on time. He had a small cup of coffee with breakfast most days and that did help to wake him up. He’s in high school now and totally survived those two years of early waking up lol.

You allowed your middle schooler to drink coffee daily to deal with the early wake up times? What a bad habit to start! Caffeine daily isn’t good for kids not to mention the teeth staining and bad breath. Gross.

His teeth are very healthy and he’s had one cavity in his whole life. He’s almost 17 now. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a cup of coffee with breakfast. And he brushes his teeth before leaving the house, so no coffee breath.

There's zero evidence that the amount of caffeine in a daily cup of coffee is bad for teens. The only concerns would be is if it exacerbated anxiety, insomnia or digestive issues--which are the same concerns at any age.

Teens don’t need to be drinking coffee, sorry.

They’re not your kids and you don’t decide what other people’s kids “need” to be doing. Sorry.

Don’t worry, PP is just defensive because the know coffee for a 12 is not appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To anyone reading this and getting anxiety because of all of the drama, it’s not that bad. I was so worried about the early start time because of reading this forum, but my son adjusted perfectly fine to the middle school schedule. We were at an ES that started at 9:20 or whatever too. He had to leave at 6:50 to get to school on time. He had a small cup of coffee with breakfast most days and that did help to wake him up. He’s in high school now and totally survived those two years of early waking up lol.

+1000. The amount of drama on this forum related to minor inconveniences never ceases to amaze.

+1. The amount of whining from parents because their poor, precious children have to wake up early for school is beyond me. It's school. You're supposed to wake up early. And guess what? The goal is that one day they will be gainfully employed adults who also have to wake up early. It's about discipline and scheduling. These are also skills that they are supposed to be learning. But instead of doing that, parents are crying to the school board that their children's biology PRECLUDES them from waking up at an early hour and attending class on time ....when really it's poor parenting. Take away the phones, set screen limits, arrange normal dinner times. What? Sports practice is late? Well, that's a self inflicted wound that you chose to sign up for. You have to decide between sports and academics.

I'm perpetually amazed at the parents on this board. Stop coddling.

I think it is a genuine complaint. Why do they start in darkness? Oh, right because it is the way schools have always done it and schools don't give a darn about working families and kids. Biut ok- label everyone else the problem.

They start in darkness bc it gets dark early here in the winter. Have a problem with it? Move to FL. We have seasonal changes unfortunately. Write to Congress about daylight savings and how much it sucks. If that doesn't work, I guess you can file a complaint with...the sun? The solar system clearly does not take your teenagers NEEDS into account! What is WRONG with the world?

OR, you could go to sleep on time and wake up early. But that would be too logical....

My kid goes to sleep at 9:30 so it is not like that is late for a 13 year old. Getting up at 6am sucks for everyone. My job doesn't require me to sign on before 9am so I am entitled to complain about the MS start. It is early because the schools can't figure out how to let MS and HS share buses (which is weird when they are within sight distance of each other).

Yes, you’re “entitled” to waste your breath and your keystrokes.

+1, her plan would require twice as many buses. She obviously didn’t use the education that was was entitled access to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

I agree with this and that’s what I keep telling myself. MS is low stakes and grades won’t count. I think more rest in HS is better. It still sucks for MS though.

Except there are kids taking WL and Math that does count.

Yes. And those students are relatively few (MS students taking languages and math that counts for HS credits).Should we adjust all MS start times just for that relatively small group of MS students? Nope, because it would probably affect HS start times which we just got pushed later a few years ago. Sorry, but the needs of the MS students who choose to do HS credit courses in MS can't outweigh the needs of HS students overall.

What? Most 8th graders take a Language and Algebra 1? I would not say a few. No one is saying high school students should go early.

It should be ES, High School than MS with school hours.

Yup. MS could take the late ES slot.

As long as they bus students to AAP, ES need that later start. If they went first everything else would run late. I guess they could build in more time, but that would pay MS and HS even further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

I agree with this and that’s what I keep telling myself. MS is low stakes and grades won’t count. I think more rest in HS is better. It still sucks for MS though.

Except there are kids taking WL and Math that does count.

Yes. And those students are relatively few (MS students taking languages and math that counts for HS credits).Should we adjust all MS start times just for that relatively small group of MS students? Nope, because it would probably affect HS start times which we just got pushed later a few years ago. Sorry, but the needs of the MS students who choose to do HS credit courses in MS can't outweigh the needs of HS students overall.

What? Most 8th graders take a Language and Algebra 1? I would not say a few. No one is saying high school students should go early.

It should be ES, High School than MS with school hours.

Yup. MS could take the late ES slot.

As long as they bus students to AAP, ES need that later start. If they went first everything else would run late. I guess they could build in more time, but that would pay MS and HS even further.

So we need to stop bussing to AAP centers. All schools should offer LL4 and move on. The county is required to offer gifted services. They are not required to have separate centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

I agree with this and that’s what I keep telling myself. MS is low stakes and grades won’t count. I think more rest in HS is better. It still sucks for MS though.

Except there are kids taking WL and Math that does count.

Yes. And those students are relatively few (MS students taking languages and math that counts for HS credits).Should we adjust all MS start times just for that relatively small group of MS students? Nope, because it would probably affect HS start times which we just got pushed later a few years ago. Sorry, but the needs of the MS students who choose to do HS credit courses in MS can't outweigh the needs of HS students overall.

What? Most 8th graders take a Language and Algebra 1? I would not say a few. No one is saying high school students should go early.

It should be ES, High School than MS with school hours.

Yup. MS could take the late ES slot.

As long as they bus students to AAP, ES need that later start. If they went first everything else would run late. I guess they could build in more time, but that would pay MS and HS even further.

Not all of the AAP centers are late schools so that argument does not work.