Early middle school bell crushing DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

With that being said, no one is batting an eye that young children aren’t getting home till 5PM. We have a section of our school that should not be in boundary and their bus is always late. There is an ES closer to them but the boundary has them attending our school. So we have 5 year olds getting home at 5 that go to bed a few hours later. This is why the county needs to do a holistic boundary study and change bus protocols. I would LOVE to see the following data: how many homes have a closer school than the one they are bound to go to and how many late ES busses are continuously late.

Dunn Loring?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

With that being said, no one is batting an eye that young children aren’t getting home till 5PM. We have a section of our school that should not be in boundary and their bus is always late. There is an ES closer to them but the boundary has them attending our school. So we have 5 year olds getting home at 5 that go to bed a few hours later. This is why the county needs to do a holistic boundary study and change bus protocols. I would LOVE to see the following data: how many homes have a closer school than the one they are bound to go to and how many late ES busses are continuously late.

Dunn Loring?

What? No. Schools that are currently open and closer than the base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

With that being said, no one is batting an eye that young children aren’t getting home till 5PM. We have a section of our school that should not be in boundary and their bus is always late. There is an ES closer to them but the boundary has them attending our school. So we have 5 year olds getting home at 5 that go to bed a few hours later. This is why the county needs to do a holistic boundary study and change bus protocols. I would LOVE to see the following data: how many homes have a closer school than the one they are bound to go to and how many late ES busses are continuously late.

What you describe is a problem but it is not just a start time issue. It is a school boundary issue. Start campaigning to get boundaries changed; you have a better shot at that than at getting start times changed, because the start time alterations were the subject of lengthy study and public meetings etc. (see above) and that ship has sailed.

I don’t know. They are investing money to study middle school start times. There were even some discussions with principals during the ES extra planning meetings. I can definitely see middle school times changing in the next 5 years. For every parent who is against later MS and early ES, there are probably 4-5 for the change.

Whatever happens to ES and MS times, if parents militate for those changes and it ends up changing HS times back to earlier starts -- those parents will regret the changes deeply when their kids hit HS. Please do not screw with the later HS start times that it took years of pleading and work to get into place. Any "victory" of later starts in ES and MS, if it comes at the cost of undoing later HS starts, will backfire when those kids reach HS. Parents with kids now in ES/MS need to think ahead to the bigger picture and realize that it's HS where the rubber really meets the road, in terms of grades affecting students' outcomes and their lives after FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is crazy to be when FCPS decided to move high schools to a later start time that they sacrificed middle school start times to make it work. Arguably middle schoolers need more sleep than high school students. I get the logistics problems, but it sucks.

'

FCPS held several informational forums around the county when it was reaching the decision on later HS start times. Those sessions were incredibly informative:

--Doctors from Children's Hospital talked about how older teens are wired --not by choice, actually physically wired -- to not be able to fall asleep super early and get up and be functional super early. Going to bed early often means they are lying there not going to sleep, only "going to bed." Same could be said for MS students, I know, but the difference is:
--MS is only two years, HS is four, and [i]HS is when the grades truly count for things like college applications and other post-HS destinations. So giving high schoolers the most beneficial rest schedule, leading, one hopes, to better academics, gets priority.[/i] This one seemed to be the real driver. MS is over in half the time of HS and HS, bluntly, matters more.
--Most of the United States has used later HS start times than we were using here in Fairfax County, for years. FCPS was the outlier. The sessions included stats on MS and HS start times nationwide and I"m not going to dig them up right now, but FCPS was one of few school systems with those very early HS start times/buses.
--Buses. No one can make more buses and crucailly, more drivers, simply appear. Many buses have to do double runs. Someone has to be the early run.

These information sessions were well run and participatory too -- the organizers took question after question from parents. The upshot is, the solution of early MS and somewhat later HS is the best the system could do, short of somehow laying on many, many more buses, gas, drivers, etc. Not ideal for every child but better for the children in HS. This post will draw complaints from DCUM FCPS parents about buses (why can't we just buy more?) and about HS (why is MS less important?) and specific kids' needs (My MS kid is wired to be awake later and rise later too). But I'm noting that FCPS did at least get out and give parents opportunities to hear why the plan was done.

With that being said, no one is batting an eye that young children aren’t getting home till 5PM. We have a section of our school that should not be in boundary and their bus is always late. There is an ES closer to them but the boundary has them attending our school. So we have 5 year olds getting home at 5 that go to bed a few hours later. This is why the county needs to do a holistic boundary study and change bus protocols. I would LOVE to see the following data: how many homes have a closer school than the one they are bound to go to and how many late ES busses are continuously late.

What you describe is a problem but it is not just a start time issue. It is a school boundary issue. Start campaigning to get boundaries changed; you have a better shot at that than at getting start times changed, because the start time alterations were the subject of lengthy study and public meetings etc. (see above) and that ship has sailed.

I don’t know. They are investing money to study middle school start times. There were even some discussions with principals during the ES extra planning meetings. I can definitely see middle school times changing in the next 5 years. For every parent who is against later MS and early ES, there are probably 4-5 for the change.

Whatever happens to ES and MS times, if parents militate for those changes and it ends up changing HS times back to earlier starts -- those parents will regret the changes deeply when their kids hit HS. Please do not screw with the later HS start times that it took years of pleading and work to get into place. Any "victory" of later starts in ES and MS, if it comes at the cost of undoing later HS starts, will backfire when those kids reach HS. Parents with kids now in ES/MS need to think ahead to the bigger picture and realize that it's HS where the rubber really meets the road, in terms of grades affecting students' outcomes and their lives after FCPS.

No one wants to change high school times to earlier. They want ES to go first and then middle/high to go later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To anyone reading this and getting anxiety because of all of the drama, it’s not that bad. I was so worried about the early start time because of reading this forum, but my son adjusted perfectly fine to the middle school schedule. We were at an ES that started at 9:20 or whatever too. He had to leave at 6:50 to get to school on time. He had a small cup of coffee with breakfast most days and that did help to wake him up. He’s in high school now and totally survived those two years of early waking up lol.

You allowed your middle schooler to drink coffee daily to deal with the early wake up times? What a bad habit to start! Caffeine daily isn’t good for kids not to mention the teeth staining and bad breath. Gross.

His teeth are very healthy and he’s had one cavity in his whole life. He’s almost 17 now. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a cup of coffee with breakfast. And he brushes his teeth before leaving the house, so no coffee breath.

There's zero evidence that the amount of caffeine in a daily cup of coffee is bad for teens. The only concerns would be is if it exacerbated anxiety, insomnia or digestive issues--which are the same concerns at any age.

Teens don’t need to be drinking coffee, sorry.

They’re not your kids and you don’t decide what other people’s kids “need” to be doing. Sorry.

Don’t worry, PP is just defensive because the know coffee for a 12 is not appropriate.

+1 everyone except PP knows coffee for 12 year olds is inappropriate! Lol.