Anonymous wrote:It's great that schools are ditching certifications. It doesn't seem to me that they do anything other than line the pockets of the mediocre degree mills that issue them. I'd much rather have a teacher with real knowledge, experience, and passion than one trained in pseudoscientific methods by a bunch of people who couldn't cut it as real academics.
I'm OK with certification AND also with alternative pathways for all the reasons you mention. Let's have more imagination and less lockstep + gatekeeping in teaching. - a teacher
And let's keep the pay low, respect from parents low, work load high. In fact, let's go back to the prairie schools. Why stop there? There are a lot of shortages in many fields. No educational background required! Google what you need.
Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.
That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.
The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.
I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?
(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)
Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.
Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.
You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.
Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.
Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.
I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.
Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.
I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.
Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:
Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.
Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.
So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.
My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.
I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.
Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.
Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?
Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.
Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!
Our catholic school is fully staffed this year with happy teachers. Just sayin’
I mean, when The Bible is the curriculum, I guess that kinda takes care of itself eh?
You are ignorant.
Well, I did graduate from a christian high school, so…
So you don't know anything about Catholic schools, it seems.
Very happy reading the bios of the new staff members at my DC's private school. Diverse, talented, experienced, skate of teachers, many of whom are certified.
Meanwhile, the public school I work at still has classroom teacher jobs unfilled...
Anonymous wrote:It's great that schools are ditching certifications. It doesn't seem to me that they do anything other than line the pockets of the mediocre degree mills that issue them. I'd much rather have a teacher with real knowledge, experience, and passion than one trained in pseudoscientific methods by a bunch of people who couldn't cut it as real academics.
I'm OK with certification AND also with alternative pathways for all the reasons you mention. Let's have more imagination and less lockstep + gatekeeping in teaching. - a teacher
And let's keep the pay low, respect from parents low, work load high. In fact, let's go back to the prairie schools. Why stop there? There are a lot of shortages in many fields. No educational background required! Google what you need.
Dramatic much? Schools are hiring temps or contractors without paying benefits or hiring union and the union is making it sound like they are hiring day laborers from a Walmart parking lot.
The school system is still setting hiring qualifications and can also fire underperformera
S.
Anonymous wrote:It's great that schools are ditching certifications. It doesn't seem to me that they do anything other than line the pockets of the mediocre degree mills that issue them. I'd much rather have a teacher with real knowledge, experience, and passion than one trained in pseudoscientific methods by a bunch of people who couldn't cut it as real academics.
I'm OK with certification AND also with alternative pathways for all the reasons you mention. Let's have more imagination and less lockstep + gatekeeping in teaching. - a teacher
And let's keep the pay low, respect from parents low, work load high. In fact, let's go back to the prairie schools. Why stop there? There are a lot of shortages in many fields. No educational background required! Google what you need.
Dramatic much? Schools are hiring temps or contractors without paying benefits or hiring union and the union is making it sound like they are hiring day laborers from a Walmart parking lot.
The school system is still setting hiring qualifications and can also fire underperformera
S.
They will all be underperformers, because there will be no mentors, no guides. And no, they won't be fired because they cannot afford to fire anyone. This is a free for all end to what we once knew as education. And, yes, this is literally no different than day laborers. Good luck.
Anonymous wrote:It's great that schools are ditching certifications. It doesn't seem to me that they do anything other than line the pockets of the mediocre degree mills that issue them. I'd much rather have a teacher with real knowledge, experience, and passion than one trained in pseudoscientific methods by a bunch of people who couldn't cut it as real academics.
I'm OK with certification AND also with alternative pathways for all the reasons you mention. Let's have more imagination and less lockstep + gatekeeping in teaching. - a teacher
And let's keep the pay low, respect from parents low, work load high. In fact, let's go back to the prairie schools. Why stop there? There are a lot of shortages in many fields. No educational background required! Google what you need.
Dramatic much? Schools are hiring temps or contractors without paying benefits or hiring union and the union is making it sound like they are hiring day laborers from a Walmart parking lot.
The school system is still setting hiring qualifications and can also fire underperformera
S.
They will all be underperformers, because there will be no mentors, no guides. And no, they won't be fired because they cannot afford to fire anyone. This is a free for all end to what we once knew as education. And, yes, this is literally no different than day laborers. Good luck.
The end of the world as we know it is not a surprising end for that level of hysteris LOL.
Anonymous wrote:Raise teacher’s pay. This problem is not that hard to solve.
Pretty simple. You pay like crap that’s the kind of talent you will get. Been teaching in private schools for 20 years there are some real duds with no education background or training. Public schools have higher standards. It’s true sorry to say. You pay more and the teachers are worse. Yes there are some amazing teachers who love the freedom of private schools. That is not the majority.
I am a teacher at a large, well-respected NOVA private. Our school has been very vocal about teacher salaries being “at or above those of our peer schools” (they have not said which schools those peer schools are). I have been teaching for 10 years and have a masters. I teach a STEM subject. I currently make about $68,000 annually and until recently our school was on a step salary scale that was public to all teachers. Our raises last year (which got me to my current salary) were between 3 and 3.5%.
Anonymous wrote:To get back to the original topic…
I am a teacher at a large, well-respected NOVA private. Our school has been very vocal about teacher salaries being “at or above those of our peer schools” (they have not said which schools those peer schools are). I have been teaching for 10 years and have a masters. I teach a STEM subject. I currently make about $68,000 annually and until recently our school was on a step salary scale that was public to all teachers. Our raises last year (which got me to my current salary) were between 3 and 3.5%.
All of the peer schools work to keep their salaries in the same band, so none of them dares to start a bidding war. If one did, that nonsensical pay level after 10 years would reflect a mid-career professional, probably six figures in most professions. Young people starting their careers can see the difference and choose accordingly.
Anonymous wrote:To get back to the original topic…
I am a teacher at a large, well-respected NOVA private. Our school has been very vocal about teacher salaries being “at or above those of our peer schools” (they have not said which schools those peer schools are). I have been teaching for 10 years and have a masters. I teach a STEM subject. I currently make about $68,000 annually and until recently our school was on a step salary scale that was public to all teachers. Our raises last year (which got me to my current salary) were between 3 and 3.5%.
All of the peer schools work to keep their salaries in the same band, so none of them dares to start a bidding war. If one did, that nonsensical pay level after 10 years would reflect a mid-career professional, probably six figures in most professions. Young people starting their careers can see the difference and choose accordingly.
Anonymous wrote:To get back to the original topic…
I am a teacher at a large, well-respected NOVA private. Our school has been very vocal about teacher salaries being “at or above those of our peer schools” (they have not said which schools those peer schools are). I have been teaching for 10 years and have a masters. I teach a STEM subject. I currently make about $68,000 annually and until recently our school was on a step salary scale that was public to all teachers. Our raises last year (which got me to my current salary) were between 3 and 3.5%.
Hey, I teach at a large MD private with a masters, 9 years of experience, and an Arts subject. My salary is just over $76K. You are getting shafted more than we are already being shafted.
Our school is pretending to compare our salary bands (that aren’t publicized) to our peer schools (that also aren’t publicized) to ensure we are comparable. When asked how they are making the comparison they said they are using Glassdoor… which I find to be a little low at least for my school. Perhaps we should make a salary transparency group/website to help add less obscurity to our salary bands in the area.
One additional thing I’ve noticed is the hiring process is long at my school and you don’t find out about salary until the end, even if you ask. This probably deters people and/or wastes their time interviewing for a job they can’t afford to take.
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}