Area Private School Teacher Shortage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.

Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Catholic-School-Teaching-Salary--in-Maryland

Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.

Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.

Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Catholic-School-Teaching-Salary--in-Maryland

Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.

Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!

Our catholic school is fully staffed this year with happy teachers. Just sayin’

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.

Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Catholic-School-Teaching-Salary--in-Maryland

Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.

Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!

Our catholic school is fully staffed this year with happy teachers. Just sayin’

Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.

Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Catholic-School-Teaching-Salary--in-Maryland

Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.

Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!

Our catholic school is fully staffed this year with happy teachers. Just sayin’

As is ours.

I’m the PP who isn’t being believed. Again: most Catholic schools require certification. This generally isn’t a problem for a lot of applicants because they are coming from public schools. I am one of them, which is why I referenced leading public school PDs in that post. I had a long career in public schools before I made the switch. Why do I accept the lower pay? Because the conditions are much better. I am treated professionally and I am no longer micro-managed. I can focus on best practices that work instead of my former county’s plan-of-the-month that never improved the student experience or their performance. Conditions are more important than pay to me.

As for certifications, it is not a “decades long” process. If you have a Masters degree, you can go into an alternative path to certification program and come out with an APC within a year. Several public systems in the area offer this. Take the required classes in the spring, student teach summer school, and have your certificate in the fall. It doesn’t benefit any of us to say it’s a “decade long” process. First: it’s not true. Second: as you state, we need teachers. Let people know there are options out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.

Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Catholic-School-Teaching-Salary--in-Maryland

Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.

Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!

Our catholic school is fully staffed this year with happy teachers. Just sayin’

As is ours.

I’m the PP who isn’t being believed. Again: most Catholic schools require certification. This generally isn’t a problem for a lot of applicants because they are coming from public schools. I am one of them, which is why I referenced leading public school PDs in that post. I had a long career in public schools before I made the switch. Why do I accept the lower pay? Because the conditions are much better. I am treated professionally and I am no longer micro-managed. I can focus on best practices that work instead of my former county’s plan-of-the-month that never improved the student experience or their performance. Conditions are more important than pay to me.

As for certifications, it is not a “decades long” process. If you have a Masters degree, you can go into an alternative path to certification program and come out with an APC within a year. Several public systems in the area offer this. Take the required classes in the spring, student teach summer school, and have your certificate in the fall. It doesn’t benefit any of us to say it’s a “decade long” process. First: it’s not true. Second: as you state, we need teachers. Let people know there are options out there.

See, again, that's only initial certification..getting teachers in. Not the ongoing or qualifiers- there's no student teaching there, as one is already employed and needed to have been employed for some time in that discipline. And it's not one master's degree. For the extra addendums, each one was comprised of at least 15 to 30 credits . It was years of grad school for 3 addendums or more. You apparently left earlier in the game. No doubt you will respond with a flippant comment about how experienced you are, but it's clear now that you are making a lot up to sound credible, but you aren't really aware of the credentialing requirements. Your school only needs the minimal.

Stay in your school and if you are happy, fine. But- you are teaching a select and screened population/ demographic. You left the actual profession, maybe it was too hard for you. You are accepting a very low salary, with marginal benefits because obviously you aren't reliant on this income. This isn't a career, it's a religious enthusiasm, and this does not generalize to the issues of the actual profession.

We support trained and credentialed teachers in schools who are fighting for the field of teaching and who are in service to all students. Teachers who teach all and deserve to be compensated as such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.

Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Catholic-School-Teaching-Salary--in-Maryland

Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.

Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!

Our catholic school is fully staffed this year with happy teachers. Just sayin’

I mean, when The Bible is the curriculum, I guess that kinda takes care of itself eh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.

Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Catholic-School-Teaching-Salary--in-Maryland

Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.

Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!

Our catholic school is fully staffed this year with happy teachers. Just sayin’

I mean, when The Bible is the curriculum, I guess that kinda takes care of itself eh?

You are ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.

Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Catholic-School-Teaching-Salary--in-Maryland

Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.

Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!

Our catholic school is fully staffed this year with happy teachers. Just sayin’

As is ours.

I’m the PP who isn’t being believed. Again: most Catholic schools require certification. This generally isn’t a problem for a lot of applicants because they are coming from public schools. I am one of them, which is why I referenced leading public school PDs in that post. I had a long career in public schools before I made the switch. Why do I accept the lower pay? Because the conditions are much better. I am treated professionally and I am no longer micro-managed. I can focus on best practices that work instead of my former county’s plan-of-the-month that never improved the student experience or their performance. Conditions are more important than pay to me.

As for certifications, it is not a “decades long” process. If you have a Masters degree, you can go into an alternative path to certification program and come out with an APC within a year. Several public systems in the area offer this. Take the required classes in the spring, student teach summer school, and have your certificate in the fall. It doesn’t benefit any of us to say it’s a “decade long” process. First: it’s not true. Second: as you state, we need teachers. Let people know there are options out there.

See, again, that's only initial certification..getting teachers in. Not the ongoing or qualifiers- there's no student teaching there, as one is already employed and needed to have been employed for some time in that discipline. And it's not one master's degree. For the extra addendums, each one was comprised of at least 15 to 30 credits . It was years of grad school for 3 addendums or more. You apparently left earlier in the game. No doubt you will respond with a flippant comment about how experienced you are, but it's clear now that you are making a lot up to sound credible, but you aren't really aware of the credentialing requirements. Your school only needs the minimal.

Stay in your school and if you are happy, fine. But- you are teaching a select and screened population/ demographic. You left the actual profession, maybe it was too hard for you. You are accepting a very low salary, with marginal benefits because obviously you aren't reliant on this income. This isn't a career, it's a religious enthusiasm, and this does not generalize to the issues of the actual profession.

We support trained and credentialed teachers in schools who are fighting for the field of teaching and who are in service to all students. Teachers who teach all and deserve to be compensated as such.

I don’t respond to personal attacks. I suppose over 16 years of experience in public education, a masters degree, an additional 27 credits of continuing education, and specialized training in my discipline isn’t enough to be considered a real teacher. You also know nothing about my current private or its population and goals. Your post reeks of anger toward private education. It is filled with insults meant to disparage me and other private school teachers. It won’t work. At this point, I will no longer respond. I do not participate in anonymous attacks as I do not believe they represent this profession well. (Yes, we are in the same profession.)

[Anonymous]

It's great that schools are ditching certifications. It doesn't seem to me that they do anything other than line the pockets of the mediocre degree mills that issue them. I'd much rather have a teacher with real knowledge, experience, and passion than one trained in pseudoscientific methods by a bunch of people who couldn't cut it as real academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.

Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Catholic-School-Teaching-Salary--in-Maryland

Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.

Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!

Our catholic school is fully staffed this year with happy teachers. Just sayin’

As is ours.

I’m the PP who isn’t being believed. Again: most Catholic schools require certification. This generally isn’t a problem for a lot of applicants because they are coming from public schools. I am one of them, which is why I referenced leading public school PDs in that post. I had a long career in public schools before I made the switch. Why do I accept the lower pay? Because the conditions are much better. I am treated professionally and I am no longer micro-managed. I can focus on best practices that work instead of my former county’s plan-of-the-month that never improved the student experience or their performance. Conditions are more important than pay to me.

As for certifications, it is not a “decades long” process. If you have a Masters degree, you can go into an alternative path to certification program and come out with an APC within a year. Several public systems in the area offer this. Take the required classes in the spring, student teach summer school, and have your certificate in the fall. It doesn’t benefit any of us to say it’s a “decade long” process. First: it’s not true. Second: as you state, we need teachers. Let people know there are options out there.

See, again, that's only initial certification..getting teachers in. Not the ongoing or qualifiers- there's no student teaching there, as one is already employed and needed to have been employed for some time in that discipline. And it's not one master's degree. For the extra addendums, each one was comprised of at least 15 to 30 credits . It was years of grad school for 3 addendums or more. You apparently left earlier in the game. No doubt you will respond with a flippant comment about how experienced you are, but it's clear now that you are making a lot up to sound credible, but you aren't really aware of the credentialing requirements. Your school only needs the minimal.

Stay in your school and if you are happy, fine. But- you are teaching a select and screened population/ demographic. You left the actual profession, maybe it was too hard for you. You are accepting a very low salary, with marginal benefits because obviously you aren't reliant on this income. This isn't a career, it's a religious enthusiasm, and this does not generalize to the issues of the actual profession.

We support trained and credentialed teachers in schools who are fighting for the field of teaching and who are in service to all students. Teachers who teach all and deserve to be compensated as such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferiority_complex

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People claiming the teachers at privates aren’t certified don’t know what they’re talking about. That’s really outdated info, for this area at least. Even all the ADW catholic schools require certification now.

That is incorrect. Most privates, perhaps not the Big 3, have zero credentialing requirements. Zero. With regards to others, including Big 3 or Big 5, it's discretionary unless it is a policy. It's not a law or regulation.

The private schools I am aware of generally **do not** have credentialed, or even qualified, staff. These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools. There is a private school organization, AIMS, that encourages mainstream best practices, and that's a plus if a school belongs, but most do not. If I were to teach or send a child to a private school, being affiliated with this organization would be a consideration. The school can gain affiliation with this organization with specified criteria that is worthwhile.

I really wish we could rid DCUM of this fallacy. ADW and AoB (the Catholic schools in the region) both require MSDE certification. A teacher may begin teaching without it, but they must be working toward it in a set amount of time. (Incidentally, this is also true of public schools in the area. I used to work in a public high school and about 1/10 of our staff did not have certification. I was tasked with helping new teachers prepare to take the Praxis.) I now work in a Catholic school. We are 100% MSDE certified. Many of us are actually former public school teachers. As for best practices? I attend far more professional development trainings now than I did as a public school teacher. I am observed far more now than I was as a public school teacher, using the same Danielson framework. Can we please put this "parochial settings... do not have credentialed, or even qualified, staff" fallacy to rest?

(I'll also say that credentialing requirements are too easy to get. They alone are not the mark of a qualified teacher.)

Maybe your school does, but there are many Catholic privates in Baltimore Co ., DC, and Montgomery Co that don't. There are also many other private schools, including parochial schools, that are not Catholic schools. Your school is, in fact, the exception. It is true that most private schools do not require any qualification, do not require any professional development. So, no, we do not have to rid DCUM of this fallacy.

Credentialing requirements for an Advanced Professional involves graduate degrees and a lot of coursework. Each additional qualification( i e., Special Ed, Reading, SLP, Administrator, ) requires their own set of coursework and experience. No, it isn't easy or quick.

I have an APC. I’m aware of the requirements.

Here’s the link to ADW certification requirements:
https://www.sites.google.com/site/adwteacher/professional-development/certification-cohorts/faqs

Here’s the link to AOB certification requirements:
https://www.archbalt.org/employment/additional-information-for-teaching-positions/

You can also use those sites to see how many of the schools in this region belong to these two groups. There are only a few independent Catholic schools, mostly at the high school level. I have a friend who works in one of them. She has to be certified.

Well, you keep bringing up the Archdiocese schools, which doesn't have much to do with most. . You have to realize there are hundreds of schools that aren't Catholic, and there are Catholic and other parochial schools, Friends, Jewish, Muslim, etc., not affiliated with this. Many Catholic schools in Baltimore, well regarded (?) have no credentialing. There are many private schools beyond the Archdiocese.

Again, MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS do not require qualifications or credentialing. Your system does not generalize to the entirety.

I bring them up because of your original comment: “These are small and large secular and parochial settings all across the DMV and Baltimore Co, which has a large number of private schools.” Since the AOB and ADW have well over 100 of the “parochial” schools in the region, then it isn’t quite accurate to say “most” schools don’t require certification. I can check Arlington, too, which will show even more in the region do require it.

Of course I’m aware there are other types of schools. If you use the word “parochial,” however, it is often assumed you are talking Catholic schools. Of course it isn’t all-encompassing as other types of parishes have their own schools, but the large balance tend to be Catholic. They require certification.

I don’t appreciate any argument that assumes private school teachers are universally less qualified than their public peers. Since you appeared to be making that argument above, I chose to refute it.

Refute, with your own limited experience? Again:

Most, and I mean most, not some, not a few, not marginalized, not only small, not out of the area, not unattended, but, in fact, MOST, unequivocally, and absolutely, do not hire teachers with credentialing or qualifications. I stand by that, I know this for a fact, have lots of experience in private school matters as an administrator, as well as in public schools. 35 years of experience. All you need to do is look out of your box. I'm glad that you enjoy and feel proud of your school environment. I'm glad there are standards there regarding this matter, but it is a absolute fallacy to suggest most privates have qualified/ credentialed staff. They don't.

Secondarily, you may not deride the professional pathway while all the while maintaining that your school and others require it (?) Maybe you took some back doors, or you haven't finished decades of certification qualifications, but I assure you there is a reason for credentialing, and I say this as a someone who teaches at the graduate level. I have encountered many teachers who lack basic instruction of reading knowledge and get all they think they need to know from packaged programs and phonics books.

So, go Archdiocese schools, though. Happy to hear they are improving, at least in that regard. We can discuss other asiects of Catholic schools on another thread. Another time.

My “limited” experience of over 20 years? My “limited” experience, which includes leading PD for both public and private teachers? Teaching in both settings? You are making some serious assumptions. Sure, there are some schools that don’t require it. There are many that do, which happens to include all schools I mentioned. I can accept that some don’t. I don’t understand why you are so adamantly against accepting that many do.

I have my advanced degrees. I have my APC. I’ll admit it wasn’t hard to get, and no… I did not skip any steps. I have no problem reconciling the public’s faith in MSDE certification with the idea that certification in itself does not actually make good teachers. It’s a minimum, certainly, but what truly makes strong teaching is regular and targeted PD, supportive evaluations, and the long list of traits we know a teacher employs throughout the school day.

Private schools, generally, actually do not require state certification. Apparently yours does, but that is not the norm.

Why would a Catholic school teacher ever provide PD in public schools? Don't think that would happen. This narrative is pretty sketchy- all your degrees, easy certification ( why do you think it was easy? It's a decades long process of graduate school for each qualification on that cert) , a career filled with similar-to-public -school practices- something doesn't add up. If I had multiple degrees, state certification(s), why would I agree to be paid so much less- in a parochial setting? Poor benefits and no retirement? Why would anyone sell themselves short?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Catholic-School-Teaching-Salary--in-Maryland

Maybe you are just very religious and that matters more, but even so, how could you live on that salary? Haven't read the whole thread, but what is being defended here? Catholic schools? I feel as though an acceptance of this level of salary and benefits actually undermines education, period. It lowers the standards of the field. Yes, and if you are required to absolutely have a current and relevant certification ( come on!...), with a substantially reduced income, one has to wonder what is being accomplished here? That doesn't make your school great, your colleagues great, or anything. It means you don't really need to work and this is a hobby. Must be nice.

Well, it won't matter soon. Teachers are leaving the profession, both public and private, and will they will be replaced by anyone who wants a job. You win!

Our catholic school is fully staffed this year with happy teachers. Just sayin’

I mean, when The Bible is the curriculum, I guess that kinda takes care of itself eh?

You are ignorant.

Well, I did graduate from a christian high school, so…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's great that schools are ditching certifications. It doesn't seem to me that they do anything other than line the pockets of the mediocre degree mills that issue them. I'd much rather have a teacher with real knowledge, experience, and passion than one trained in pseudoscientific methods by a bunch of people who couldn't cut it as real academics.

I'm OK with certification AND also with alternative pathways for all the reasons you mention. Let's have more imagination and less lockstep + gatekeeping in teaching. - a teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's great that schools are ditching certifications. It doesn't seem to me that they do anything other than line the pockets of the mediocre degree mills that issue them. I'd much rather have a teacher with real knowledge, experience, and passion than one trained in pseudoscientific methods by a bunch of people who couldn't cut it as real academics.

I'm OK with certification AND also with alternative pathways for all the reasons you mention. Let's have more imagination and less lockstep + gatekeeping in teaching. - a teacher

And let's keep the pay low, respect from parents low, work load high. In fact, let's go back to the prairie schools. Why stop there? There are a lot of shortages in many fields. No educational background required! Google what you need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's great that schools are ditching certifications. It doesn't seem to me that they do anything other than line the pockets of the mediocre degree mills that issue them. I'd much rather have a teacher with real knowledge, experience, and passion than one trained in pseudoscientific methods by a bunch of people who couldn't cut it as real academics.

This is why teachers are leaving- attitudes like this.