What is women’s obsession with “well-educated” men?

[Anonymous]

When I was single, I dated both guys with degrees and blue collar guys who did not go to college (or went to technical school). The latter tended to be more conservative - church going, believed women should stay at home once the kids are born, the man is the head of the house, that sort of thing. The college educated guys, my husband included, tended to be more liberal. Due to my own personal preference, I had no interest in a lifestyle that involved church or SAH. Still do not.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Education is one of the new status symbols. Newer generations are less materialistic but not less status-seeking.

It’s not a symbol. Higher education actually DOES carry higher status.

Ugh. What do you mean, it’s not a symbol? Status is a symbol, it’s not reflecting an objective, tangible thing that you can grasp. It’s something that humans came up with, and therefore is symbolic. We choose things like money, beauty, education as symbols of status, but we could easily have chosen other things. My point is, you say that higher education carries higher status, as if that is some fact of nature. It doesn’t carry higher status any more than any other thing.

Uhm it actually does. A harvard or Stanford educated person is considered an elite in this country.

LOL this isn't true.

I’d rather know your major(s) than your Uni. Oh, and what you’re doing fulltime, if anything.

Okay let put it this way. A Harvard educated hedge fund managing director living in Connecticut with a country club membership has more social cache than the plumber owning ten businesses and making a few million. Its not about money. Its also about class. That managing director can mingle comfortably in circles the plumber business owner wont. And probably have connections to all that plummy internships for their kids. Sorry to all those women who married "intelligent" men who are all that, but you married a guy in a different class. Too bad. The lady doth protest too much.

Funny you think Harvard generates hedge fund or even i bankers nowadays. Time to crawl out from under your rock and read the last 20 years of alumni news.

What I have seen: Harvard grad (may or may not get Yale law degree, too) works for a political campaign, gets a political appointment, leaves government 2-4 years later and gets a job at a hedge fund or a VC operation.

[Anonymous]

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Define "intellectual." If you're saying that people who read books should stay away from government, I disagree. I also disagree if you're alluding to "rootless cosmopolitans" (*wink wink*).

Riddle me this: when did loudmouth Twitter activists replace expert and experienced opinions in America?

Today anyone can call themselves an Intellectual. It’s now a meaningless term. Because ppl react more to Twitter than cronkite.

Also, today anyone can call anyone else "intellectual" (or more often "elite.") For the last 30 years, talk radio types have been pocketing big cash calling upper middle class and barely wealthy people "elite" while ignoring the filthy rich.

The whole idea is to stoke resentment by the working classes against the professional classes for fun, profit, and political power. One of the usual tricks is to puff up the value of "street smarts" and denigrate "book smarts."

Where does street market marketeer but dumber than a pile of bricks AOC fit in to your last sentence?

If you don't like AOC's politics, that's legitimate. But if you think she's "dumber than a pile of bricks," you lack sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OH gawd so taxpayers and endowment donations are paying for all these useless overeducated PhDs?

I'd only do a STEM one. even economics is overkill. like I ever use proofs and diffy Q at the IMF reports. Maybe SAS or STATA max and I learned that at the Fed.

Sort of. I was paid tuition and a tiny salary. But I worked 60 hours a week teaching and doing research for a professor. My wage rate was probably $1.50/hr. Universities are run on the backs of grad students and part-time professors.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Education is one of the new status symbols. Newer generations are less materialistic but not less status-seeking.

It’s not a symbol. Higher education actually DOES carry higher status.

Ugh. What do you mean, it’s not a symbol? Status is a symbol, it’s not reflecting an objective, tangible thing that you can grasp. It’s something that humans came up with, and therefore is symbolic. We choose things like money, beauty, education as symbols of status, but we could easily have chosen other things. My point is, you say that higher education carries higher status, as if that is some fact of nature. It doesn’t carry higher status any more than any other thing.

Uhm it actually does. A harvard or Stanford educated person is considered an elite in this country.

LOL this isn't true.

I’d rather know your major(s) than your Uni. Oh, and what you’re doing fulltime, if anything.

Okay let put it this way. A Harvard educated hedge fund managing director living in Connecticut with a country club membership has more social cache than the plumber owning ten businesses and making a few million. Its not about money. Its also about class. That managing director can mingle comfortably in circles the plumber business owner wont. And probably have connections to all that plummy internships for their kids. Sorry to all those women who married "intelligent" men who are all that, but you married a guy in a different class. Too bad. The lady doth protest too much.

Funny you think Harvard generates hedge fund or even i bankers nowadays. Time to crawl out from under your rock and read the last 20 years of alumni news.

What I have seen: Harvard grad (may or may not get Yale law degree, too) works for a political campaign, gets a political appointment, leaves government 2-4 years later and gets a job at a hedge fund or a VC operation.

I went to YLS and that is not really the typical route for the people who pursued hedge funds/VCs (which, to be clear, is a small fraction of my class - the vast majority are law professors, in biglaw, or high level gov't positions 15 years out). Most of them did it straight out of law school/clerking and just avoided the law altogether.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:"Well-educated" = financially well off. The same as when women say they want a man who is "ambitious".

Not necessarily; you can be well educated without having made your money yet. Plenty of people marry potential, it’s more important that the guy have a plan and the ability to follow it.

“Well educated” = I can take him to work events and he can have intelligent conversations with my colleagues and clients. He will fit in at the school, pool, club, neighborhood I aspire to be part of, he will value education and want the same things for our kids so that we can pass on our privilege and generational wealth, ideally he has decent earning potential and a chosen career path.

I know some well educated men in their late 30s who still ride a skateboard to their barista job so that they can focus on their art or their band in the evenings. I know some well educated men who have massive debt and work in the arts or at non-profits because that’s their passion. I don’t think that’s who women are referring to when they say well educated.

When did people become such losers? When I was 30 I had a PhD, a good job, a wife, two cars, and a house. Nice vacations, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Okay let put it this way. A Harvard educated hedge fund managing director living in Connecticut with a country club membership has more social cache than the plumber owning ten businesses and making a few million. Its not about money. Its also about class. That managing director can mingle comfortably in circles the plumber business owner wont. And probably have connections to all that plummy internships for their kids. Sorry to all those women who married "intelligent" men who are all that, but you married a guy in a different class. Too bad. The lady doth protest too much.

Class and "well-educated" are not the same thing. The way you describe "class" sounds gross. I'm a PP - the plumber you described is basically my dad - not a plumber, but close enough. We grew up with land, horses, a boat, ski trips, tutors, expensive travel sports, a free undergraduate and post graduate education. I guess my classless dad couldn't give us a "plummy internship" but he gave us a beautiful life and future, and we still ended up with "plummy careers".... The PP's quote above is why I hate going to the country club with DH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Okay let put it this way. A Harvard educated hedge fund managing director living in Connecticut with a country club membership has more social cache than the plumber owning ten businesses and making a few million. Its not about money. Its also about class. That managing director can mingle comfortably in circles the plumber business owner wont. And probably have connections to all that plummy internships for their kids. Sorry to all those women who married "intelligent" men who are all that, but you married a guy in a different class. Too bad. The lady doth protest too much.

Class and "well-educated" are not the same thing. The way you describe "class" sounds gross. I'm a PP - the plumber you described is basically my dad - not a plumber, but close enough. We grew up with land, horses, a boat, ski trips, tutors, expensive travel sports, a free undergraduate and post graduate education. I guess my classless dad couldn't give us a "plummy internship" but he gave us a beautiful life and future, and we still ended up with "plummy careers".... The PP's quote above is why I hate going to the country club with DH.

+1, that description is really gross. And especially as a POC, I'm really glad I live in CA where country clubs are not a "thing" the way they are on the east coast/northeast. Not to say that CA doesn't have its own issues with elitism and wealth, but at least country clubs aren't really one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read past page 1. Genes - they want big brains and tall men.

+1 for brains.

Also, intellectual stimulation and engaging conversation. Yes, I know there are plenty of smart people without college degrees. But when I was single and dating (on the apps up until a year ago), looking for a degree is the most efficient way to sort through thousands of profiles.

Plus, as others have said, there also can be somewhat of a cultural element that comes from achieving some form of higher education (not to conflate with career $$).

This thread is becoming increasingly repetitive. Hopefully OP has his answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read past page 1. Genes - they want big brains and tall men.

+1 for brains.

Also, intellectual stimulation and engaging conversation. Yes, I know there are plenty of smart people without college degrees. But when I was single and dating (on the apps up until a year ago), looking for a degree is the most efficient way to sort through thousands of profiles.

Plus, as others have said, there also can be somewhat of a cultural element that comes from achieving some form of higher education (not to conflate with career $$).

This thread is becoming increasingly repetitive. Hopefully OP has his answer.

College/well educated does not mean intelligent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Define "intellectual." If you're saying that people who read books should stay away from government, I disagree. I also disagree if you're alluding to "rootless cosmopolitans" (*wink wink*).

Riddle me this: when did loudmouth Twitter activists replace expert and experienced opinions in America?

Today anyone can call themselves an Intellectual. It’s now a meaningless term. Because ppl react more to Twitter than cronkite.

Also, today anyone can call anyone else "intellectual" (or more often "elite.") For the last 30 years, talk radio types have been pocketing big cash calling upper middle class and barely wealthy people "elite" while ignoring the filthy rich.

The whole idea is to stoke resentment by the working classes against the professional classes for fun, profit, and political power. One of the usual tricks is to puff up the value of "street smarts" and denigrate "book smarts."

well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a lazy filter for people who don't want to do the work in getting to know someone. Wait until you meet Ivy Leaguers who refuse to date outside the Ivies + Stanford....

I’ve slept with 33 men and they’ve all gone to Ivy Leagues (and good ones- no Cornell here). Not a troll. I must just have a type?

[Anonymous]

I met 3 blue collar guys in Ohio who told me women with jobs "Didn't need a man". They went on to say Susan Smith who killed her kids would be a good mother because she's not smart. They were talking about the unfemininity of women who don't live in their parents basement until 30 as if there were fallen breasts rolling around in libraries and missing vaginas laying on the floors of malls. It doesn't matter college or not, there are some idiots who will lie about horrible mothering as long as she's not good at something he wanted to be good at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education is one of the new status symbols. Newer generations are less materialistic but not less status-seeking.

It’s not a symbol. Higher education actually DOES carry higher status.

Ugh. What do you mean, it’s not a symbol? Status is a symbol, it’s not reflecting an objective, tangible thing that you can grasp. It’s something that humans came up with, and therefore is symbolic. We choose things like money, beauty, education as symbols of status, but we could easily have chosen other things. My point is, you say that higher education carries higher status, as if that is some fact of nature. It doesn’t carry higher status any more than any other thing.

Uhm it actually does. A harvard or Stanford educated person is considered an elite in this country.

LOL this isn't true.

I’d rather know your major(s) than your Uni. Oh, and what you’re doing fulltime, if anything.

Okay let put it this way. A Harvard educated hedge fund managing director living in Connecticut with a country club membership has more social cache than the plumber owning ten businesses and making a few million. Its not about money. Its also about class. That managing director can mingle comfortably in circles the plumber business owner wont. And probably have connections to all that plummy internships for their kids. Sorry to all those women who married "intelligent" men who are all that, but you married a guy in a different class. Too bad. The lady doth protest too much.

Funny you think Harvard generates hedge fund or even i bankers nowadays. Time to crawl out from under your rock and read the last 20 years of alumni news.

What I have seen: Harvard grad (may or may not get Yale law degree, too) works for a political campaign, gets a political appointment, leaves government 2-4 years later and gets a job at a hedge fund or a VC operation.

So we agree. Not a hedge founder or investor but a “Special Advisor” to grease politics and appease the SJW endowment colleges. I certainly would not put that on the board of a portfolio company unless there was years of real world experience or risk taking.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

Practically, the bolded is how I think about it. Are there plenty of intelligent, hard-working, decent people without college degrees who earn a good living? Sure. But college degrees afford many more options than without them, typically. That's why we encourage our kids to go to college and why DH's aunt insisted he attend, even though neither of his parents did. A bachelors degree gives you options. Graduate degrees can, too, of course, but they often come with a debt burden that may or may not be worth it.

Female STEM grad degree here. In the sciences, grad degrees are usually paid for. I got a full stipend that paid for my degree while I worked in lab and taught an undergrad bio 101 lab. The type of degree matters too. A PhD an Art History would have been lots of debt for me with no return.

Thanks for the mansplaining. I have a STEM Ph.D, as well, and am fully aware that many degrees in the hard sciences, at least at the doctoral level, are fully funded. Masters degrees? No. Medicine? No. Law? No.

To the PP who said a plumber or contractor has less stress than someone in grad school: you clearly don’t have much sense how hard it is to start and maintain a successful business. It’s not like successful businesses happen overnight. Even people inheriting the family business often have to pay their dues in ways that can be incredibly stressful.