Out of country travel and divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t violate a court order against international travel absent the other parent’s approval. OMG, just don’t do it. You would be in for a world of hurt if your soon to be Ex reports you. The judge could be livid, and you could be prosecuted for kidnapping. I am not kidding. Seen it many times in family law cases.

File a pro se motion with the court requesting permission to take your kid with you. Cite your parents health and the desire for the child to see them again while they’re still lucid and reasonably healthy. Explain that your spouse has never refused such travel before and you believe the current refusal is arbitrary and capricious.

Request an expedited hearing citing the purchase of tickets in reliance on husband’s prior approval of travel. Also include in the motion that husband has refused to respond as to whether he will take custody of the child in your absence in light of his refusal to provide written permission. And definitely include in the motion that he has attempted to coerce your acceptance of terms in the dissolution in exchange for his permission.

I suggest you draft this motion then send a digital copy of the draft to your husband and ask if he wants to provide the written permission or should you file it?

He will not look good to the court playing manipulation games like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your lawyer say?

self represented

That is your first problem.

+1 !!

Former family law attorney, I disagree. Many divorces can be accomplished absent lawyers and should be. Often lawyers only inflame tensions and prolong litigation. And empty the family coffers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your lawyer say?

self represented

That is your first problem.

+1 !!

Former family law attorney, I disagree. Many divorces can be accomplished absent lawyers and should be. Often lawyers only inflame tensions and prolong litigation. And empty the family coffers.

PP here. I meant because the stbx doesn't seem to be trustworthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t violate a court order against international travel absent the other parent’s approval. OMG, just don’t do it. You would be in for a world of hurt if your soon to be Ex reports you. The judge could be livid, and you could be prosecuted for kidnapping. I am not kidding. Seen it many times in family law cases.

File a pro se motion with the court requesting permission to take your kid with you. Cite your parents health and the desire for the child to see them again while they’re still lucid and reasonably healthy. Explain that your spouse has never refused such travel before and you believe the current refusal is arbitrary and capricious.

OP here, thank you! this is very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your lawyer say?

self represented

That is your first problem.

+1 !!

Former family law attorney, I disagree. Many divorces can be accomplished absent lawyers and should be. Often lawyers only inflame tensions and prolong litigation. And empty the family coffers.

I started out represented by a lawyer, then had to get a consult on the divorce agreement which Stbx now refuses to sign and has come up with his own. I know the major steps and what I should be aware of, so no need for a lawyer as of now. I can get a consult if needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t violate a court order against international travel absent the other parent’s approval. OMG, just don’t do it. You would be in for a world of hurt if your soon to be Ex reports you. The judge could be livid, and you could be prosecuted for kidnapping. I am not kidding. Seen it many times in family law cases.

File a pro se motion with the court requesting permission to take your kid with you. Cite your parents health and the desire for the child to see them again while they’re still lucid and reasonably healthy. Explain that your spouse has never refused such travel before and you believe the current refusal is arbitrary and capricious.

Request an expedited hearing citing the purchase of tickets in reliance on husband’s prior approval of travel. Also include in the motion that husband has refused to respond as to whether he will take custody of the child in your absence in light of his refusal to provide written permission. And definitely include in the motion that he has attempted to coerce your acceptance of terms in the dissolution in exchange for his permission.

I suggest you draft this motion then send a digital copy of the draft to your husband and ask if he wants to provide the written permission or should you file it?

He will not look good to the court playing manipulation games like this.

Thank you! Ex doesn't respond well to open refusals but apparently that's what needs to be done!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you are borrowing trouble. If you are self represented, just have a conversation.

We
Both are self represented. He was totally ok with us going so I bought the tickets. Then he wanted something from me and I said no and he is now stalling. I am trying to wait it out and I already told him I can leave the child with him if he prefers - no response.
I just thought maybe I can just solve it without having to work with him.
What can he do if we just go?

If you just go and he wants to play hardball, he could sue for full custody. He would likely get it too because leaving the country in violation of a custody order is a really really big deal. If you didn’t have the temporary order in place it wouldn’t matter. Now that you do this could cause all sorts of problems for you. He could hold custody over your head to get you to give up anything he wants in the divorce.

The only way around this is a court date. Put it in writing that you need to be out of the country for XX days. You can take the child with you or leave the child with him.

Do NOT just go. That’s like handing your ex a loaded gun.

[Anonymous]

How long from now until you travel? A lot of courts are still backed up from COVID closures and to some degree smaller dockets so the court is less crowded. Might want to check with the clerk to make sure you can get a hearing date before your trip. Hopefully you have a few months before your trip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How long from now until you travel? A lot of courts are still backed up from COVID closures and to some degree smaller dockets so the court is less crowded. Might want to check with the clerk to make sure you can get a hearing date before your trip. Hopefully you have a few months before your trip.

a little over a month
I will call the court, thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you are borrowing trouble. If you are self represented, just have a conversation.

We
Both are self represented. He was totally ok with us going so I bought the tickets. Then he wanted something from me and I said no and he is now stalling. I am trying to wait it out and I already told him I can leave the child with him if he prefers - no response.
I just thought maybe I can just solve it without having to work with him.
What can he do if we just go?

If you just go and he wants to play hardball, he could sue for full custody. He would likely get it too because leaving the country in violation of a custody order is a really really big deal. If you didn’t have the temporary order in place it wouldn’t matter. Now that you do this could cause all sorts of problems for you. He could hold custody over your head to get you to give up anything he wants in the divorce.

The only way around this is a court date. Put it in writing that you need to be out of the country for XX days. You can take the child with you or leave the child with him.

Do NOT just go. That’s like handing your ex a loaded gun.

To be completely honest I am fine with him having full custody if it comes to that - he will NOT be able to keep it for long, but of course I would prefer to avoid any trouble and fights. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t violate a court order against international travel absent the other parent’s approval. OMG, just don’t do it. You would be in for a world of hurt if your soon to be Ex reports you. The judge could be livid, and you could be prosecuted for kidnapping. I am not kidding. Seen it many times in family law cases.

File a pro se motion with the court requesting permission to take your kid with you. Cite your parents health and the desire for the child to see them again while they’re still lucid and reasonably healthy. Explain that your spouse has never refused such travel before and you believe the current refusal is arbitrary and capricious.

There is no court order. Just a petition at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you are borrowing trouble. If you are self represented, just have a conversation.

We
Both are self represented. He was totally ok with us going so I bought the tickets. Then he wanted something from me and I said no and he is now stalling. I am trying to wait it out and I already told him I can leave the child with him if he prefers - no response.
I just thought maybe I can just solve it without having to work with him.
What can he do if we just go?

If you just go and he wants to play hardball, he could sue for full custody. He would likely get it too because leaving the country in violation of a custody order is a really really big deal. If you didn’t have the temporary order in place it wouldn’t matter. Now that you do this could cause all sorts of problems for you. He could hold custody over your head to get you to give up anything he wants in the divorce.

The only way around this is a court date. Put it in writing that you need to be out of the country for XX days. You can take the child with you or leave the child with him.

Do NOT just go. That’s like handing your ex a loaded gun.

To be completely honest I am fine with him having full custody if it comes to that - he will NOT be able to keep it for long, but of course I would prefer to avoid any trouble and fights. Thanks!

OMG! You do not see how serious this is. You could end up with supervised visitations. Imagine not being legally allowed to be alone with your child. He could press charges for kidnapping and you could end up with a criminal record.

Of course, during the divorce he could offer to drop kidnapping charges if you give up all rights to any assets accrued during the marriage and pay all of his attorney fees and be solely responsible for paying all future child expenses. Your ex could destroy your life over this. What would you pay to avoid a criminal record? Jail time?

[Anonymous]

Whatever you do, make sure this is all spelled out in the agreement at the end. If not, you have shot yourself in the foot by not getting a lawyer I had no lawyer, but my ex would never even think of questioning something like this. My boyfriend has to go to his divorce agreement on EVERYTHING; thank god it is all written out (ex. other parent must participate in renewing of passport, acting within one week to the request; out of state travel allowed without permission; out of the country requires permission but should be granted freely (this one isn't specific enough, so the court is involved EVERY SINGLE TIME), may take child out of school for no more than 1.5 days...).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long from now until you travel? A lot of courts are still backed up from COVID closures and to some degree smaller dockets so the court is less crowded. Might want to check with the clerk to make sure you can get a hearing date before your trip. Hopefully you have a few months before your trip.

a little over a month
I will call the court, thanks!

YW. Personally, I think it is extremely unlikely you are going to be able to get an appearance before your travel date. Courts usually have a pretty full calendar and it's unlikely they will have extra space just to fit you in like that on such short notice absent a really compelling reason.

You need to talk to a lawyer about the significance of the petition that you referenced. If it's just a filing by him or his lawyer it probably isn't binding unless a judge signed an order in that regard. No one here can really help you out because the meaning of some of these terms can be state-specific. Seriously, just a consult with a lawyer will probably only cost a few hundred bucks and they will probably be able to recommend a solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long from now until you travel? A lot of courts are still backed up from COVID closures and to some degree smaller dockets so the court is less crowded. Might want to check with the clerk to make sure you can get a hearing date before your trip. Hopefully you have a few months before your trip.

a little over a month
I will call the court, thanks!

YW. Personally, I think it is extremely unlikely you are going to be able to get an appearance before your travel date. Courts usually have a pretty full calendar and it's unlikely they will have extra space just to fit you in like that on such short notice absent a really compelling reason.

I agree. I'd be surprised if you could get a hearing in the next six months on this issue. Definitely talk to the court, but don't be surprised if you get a run around answer. Clerks don't want to give advice or appear to be making promises.

Unless the court assures you that you will have your hearing in time to execute your travel plans, I would seriously consider not filing the motion and trying to come up with an amicable resolution to your issues. Antagonizing your ex by filing a motion seems like you could be shooting yourself in the foot both on this and on future issues that require cooperation between the two of you. You haven't said what your dispute is about, but I presume it is something big if you are willing to put this trip and your formerly amicable relationship in jeopardy.